300.... Is the most insulting movie I have ever seen.

[Joanne98]

The Athenians are weak, boy-loving liberals, the Persian king is a pagan transvestite..The Spartan women are the only women who give birth to men. Spartan women are first mothers, second wives and third warriors. The Spartan King is George Bush who can't get the traitor liberals to give him more troops. The Spartans are also ALMOST Christian. They had a hard part with that. They were "mystic" fighters. I think I saw a little cross on one of the shields. The Spartan King went to see the Oracle of Delphi. She was "on drugs" (gas) and was controlled by deformed priests. In fact all women in the movie were "less than human" except (of course) the Spartan "traditional family value, boy birthing, support the troops women. The "other greek warriors' RAN when the going got tough. Athens, the council, the pols, the other greeks, were either, gay, weak, traitors or cowards. The Persians were NOT WHITE or for some strange reason Samari's. The Persians were also really perverted and ugly. The women deformed and GAY of course. What else can I say. OH yeah. The spartans gave little speeches about "freedom isn't free".

I can't believe nobody warned me about this movie. I took a teenage boy. I didn't know if was going to be rated R. I thought it was like a video game or something. It was really violent and dark. It was sickening.

I don't know who made this movie but they should be attacked without mercy the rest of their lives. The is a movie ONLY Ann Coulter could love.

[ComerPerro]

1. and its terribly ironic that freepers identify with the spartans

since none of their cowardly asses ever fight to defend their country.

[Joanne98]

2. This movie is so bad it had to have been produced by freepers..

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Frank Miller is NOT a freeper

the original comic book, graphic novel, what have you came out in 1998

And it is loosely based on a real battle...

[Joanne98]

49. You got to be kidding. He fooled me...

Loosely is right. I didn't seem to recall the Spartans making "freedom isn't free" speeches.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Well you were fooled

Frank Miller is not a freeper, or a neocon, nor was he making a statement about Bush, or the bush crime family.

If he was... the oracle at Delphi moved to his home.

By the way, if you read herodotus Histories you will find referneces to freedom and things like that as well... mostly made by Athenians, but also Spartans

You might even find those in the History of the Peloponesian Wars...

[Zhade]

152. Maybe he wasn't, but - Batman versus al Qaeda?

At the very least, one of the stupidest ideas ever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

154. Depends

how it is done

At times the comics make very ascerbic comments in ways that you really have to read them.

Given marvel just killed Captain America and iirc Batman is one of their IPs, I will wait and see

[HRC_in_08]

155. Batman is DC. eom.

[nadinbrzezinski]

157. Thank you

[Beelzebud]

41. Actually the director is a liberal... Don't let partisanship skew your views too much..

[Joanne98]

53. Okay. If you say so...

I guess I should be grateful American flags weren' flying in the background.

[Little Wing]

3. I hope it didn't make the teenaged boy catch "The Gay" and sign up for the military

What a confused insult he would make :eyes:

It's a comic book movie.

[Joanne98]

4. I just got done apologizing.. He liked though.. He doesn't get what they did.

[ComerPerro]

22. although hopefully it might have encouraged some 18-24 year old repigs to enlist

[teenagebambam]

5. You DO know they print the ratings right in the newspaper, right?

[Little Wing]

7. What is this newspaper concept you speak of?

[Liberal In Texas]

16. An information source before computers and the internet. n/t

[Joanne98]

11. I didn't look. I know. I should have.

[Faux pas]

6. Without even knowing about this movie, I wouldn't want to see

it because of the cinematography. Looks like something out of a really bad nightmare.

[ghostsofgiants]

141. The cinematography is gorgeous...

And mostly computer generated. It's really a beautiful film to look at.

[Faux pas]

168. Thank you for your input, I guess I'm too old and dusty to

appreciate this kind of stuff. It looks too much like one of those animated-to-look-real video games to me....JMHO of course.

[ghostsofgiants]

169. Well you have to take into account the intent of the filmmaker as well.

He was trying to create a realistic representation of the artwork from the graphic novel. I think he did an excellent job in achieving that, and it gives the look a slightly surreal, very stylized quality.

I liked it.

[Faux pas]

175. LOL probably b/c you're not old and dusty! n/t

[stirlingsliver]

8. Thanks for Saving Me.

Thanks for saving me $9.00.

Plus the cost of popcorn and a coke.

[Joanne98]

14. You're welcome. I wish someone would have saved me...

It was really awful.

[madrchsod]

9. it was based on a comic book/graphic novel

and a bad one at that. i just watched the real story of that feud which was far more entertaining and informative

[Joanne98]

17. I guess that's why it was so inaccurate... It's too bad....

It could have been a good plot.

[Little Wing]

21. PLOT? PLOT?

YOU WANT ACCURACY AND A PLOT AT THE SAME TIME?

:argh:

[Joanne98]

23. I can say one good thing about it. I"M CURED!

I have no desire to ever see a movie again.

[mondo joe]

94. Good. Audiences with a clue make for a more enjoyable experience. NT

[Joanne98]

108. You can't insult me anymore than the movie did.

[mondo joe]

113. You insult yourself by going to movies without the good sense to see a preview or review,

and then to go off on it completely ignorant of the history of the production or the world.

[Solo_in_MD]

10. You must not out much

It was a art flick based on a graphic novel. The novel was done over 10 years ago. It is very stylized with little historical realism in the details.

Its an art flick with no political overtones. I've read claims that it is pro gay, anti gay, liberal, conservative, racist against (insert your group here] etc. All of this is nonsense

Get over it, its an art flick. The only people with real room to whine are the Iranians, and they are doing enough for everyone.

[Joanne98]

19. No wonder they're whining. Hey I'm NEVER going to a movie again..

From now on it's documentaries ONLY. I'm sick of all of them. The coming soon previews were horrible too. And as far as I could tell, I wasn't the only person in the theatre that hated it. Everyone was pretty much silent. No clamping or anything. It's all trash now. Let the entertainment industry starve.

[Solo_in_MD]

27. I saw it locally, and now want to see it in IMAX

From an art/production basis, it was pretty good, in IMAX it should be awesome.

Then again, I understand that it is neither historically accurate or politically anything other than an art flick

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Yeah I know you and I understand it is an art film

with very little, if any, real historical references... alas she caught one of them... (Damn I had to read the Histories in college, and I actually enjoyed them)

They had two more that were accurate, to the point of paint

1.- Exposure... yep my dear the Greeks in General but the Spartans in particular let newborns who were not perfect die.

2.- Go tell the Spartans... that is out of the plaque at the gates of hell... aka thermopylae

[Joanne98]

55. It was sickening. It was so gross, I feel like I have to take a shower.

The only thing it didn't have was sex with animals. YUK!

[dysfunctional press]

120. we're waiting to see it in imax next weekend.

it should be awesome.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

29. Fortunately, you are a party of one and the entertainment industry will not starve.

[Joanne98]

56. Fine. I don't care what happens to them. I'm done...

OHH. yeah. It feels good too.

[mondo joe]

64. Don't care about the livelihood of thousands of Americans?

Nice.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. Apparently not.

[walldude]

I agree, While it wasn't as good as I was hoping

it certainly wasn't a movie "only Ann Coulter could like". It was an experiment that worked on some levels and not on others. I for one could not see "partisan politics" in play here, I just saw a war movie with more style than substance. I also saw, and this seems to be sadly overlooked, an incredible transformation in Gerard Butler. I really wish it had been a better film, so this transformation would be recognized for what it is. Had this movie had better dialog and more character development Butler would have been an Oscar contender.

[medeak]

12. Ariana Huffinton seemed to like it

" Then there was the news that Iran, taking time out from its efforts to bring the world to the brink of nuclear annihilation, was upset at the way its ancestors have been depicted in the film 300. Hey, it's not my fault that 300 of my very buff ancestors kicked butt in Thermopylae. Eat it, Ahmadinejad."

not nice.

[Joanne98]

15. Well. It's not very accurate. Someone said it was a comic book..

Maybe that's why.

[Little Wing]

18. You saw the trailer and were expecting Thirteen Days?

Jesus

[Joanne98]

20. I didn't see the trailer. Who knew any movie could be that bad..

[shadowknows69]

76. Wow, Thirteen days was an excellent flick

gotta watch that one again.

[sir_captain]

123. What's wrong with comic books/graphic novels?

Have you ever read Maus?

There is some really good work done in that medium, just like every other. And if you knew anything about Frank Miller, the guy who wrote the graphic novel originally (and long before the Bush administration and 9/11) you wouldn't think it was some sort of insidious freeper plot.

I can see that you didn't bother to check the rating or read anything about the film before seeing it--you should do a little more research before getting so angry.

[The Straight Story]

13. It's just a freakin movie - that's what we tell the other side when they don't like a movie

same goes on this side.

If someone's life perceptions are altered due to a movie, well - I don't know what to tell them except learn to enjoy a movie for what it is and if your faith is that deeply shaken by a movie you shouldn't be going to any movie.

Either movies have an affect or they don't. If they do, then the rw has as much reason to bitch as the lw does.

Personally, I go to see movies to get away from it all. If the director/writer's view of the universe is not the same as mine, who cares. it's entertainment.

[Joanne98]

24. I'm NEVER going to a movie again. I'm glad this happened.

I'm FREE!

[Little Wing]

25. Release the doves!

:bounce:

[Aviation Pro]

26. "300" is from the fertile mind of Frank Miller....

...who also gave us "Sin City," another comic novel with massive pecs and breasts and men basically slaughtering each other (Mickey Rourke did a fine turn as Marv, the psychopath with a heart of gold).

[juno jones]

31. AHAHAHA!

Yeah I wasn't thrilled with Sin City either, all of the women were helpess or whores with hearts of gold... (to match Marv of course :) )I don' like Miller's stuff, it's all nilistic film noir on the surface and empty of humanity on furhter examination. If this was intent, fine, but I don't like it.

[Lilith Velkor]

153. Were you getting popcorn during Gail and Miho's scenes?

Speaking of which, Sin City had a reference to Thermopylae as well, but it was subtle.

[ChickMagic]

178. I didn't want to see Sin City

but it turned up on cable so I watched it. I wound up liking it pretty well. Rotten Tomatoes gave 300 a 61%, so it seems people either love it or hate it. Here's their reviews:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/300/

[Marrah_G]

28. You do realize this was about a historical battle right?

Nobody made this up just to offend you. A guy wrote a comic bok version of an ancient battle. Perhaps you ought to know what a movie is about before you take your kid to it. History can be bloody and sad, there are battles and people died.

You need to get a grip and make sure you stick to winnie the pooh movies.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

Oh snap!

:spray:

[Joanne98]

79. I knew about the historical battle but the comic book version makes

more sense. If I would have known about the comic book I wouldn't have gone.

[mdmc]

30. I just saw Borat

That was pretty good...

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. Have yuo read the Histories from Herodotus

If you do... those references by Spartans to Athenians as well boy loving and waek are peppered all over the place.'

That is in Herodotus

Now did Miller and the movie makers take soem liberties with history? Absolutely, but there were a few sections that they were actually quite faithful to it, alas taht was one of the few.

Themistocles also makes references to the Spartan attitudes regarding Athens.

[TheBaldyMan]

109. ancient historians like Herodotus took liberties with history constantly.

An Athenians were the gayest guys you could get, I think the Spartans weren't above a bit of hot man on man action as well.

Some of the toughest troops at the time were Greeks, famed for going berserk if you killed their boyfriend during a battle.

Besides I think anyone who is very into the body beautiful and runs around naked apart from a cloak and weapons has some other issues. That's another historical inaccuracy, Spartans didn't wear thongs they prefered to fight au naturel.

The whole thing is a bit overblown IMHO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

115. Of course he did

but the disdain was there

As I said, there were precious few references to rael history

Now the Spartans did fight with armor as shcok troops... but hey...

They did not have enough for shock troops and too much for other troops

;-)

[Greyhound]

202. Perfect example of societal filters coloring perception.

No such concept as homosexual existed until the perversion of morality by the, predominantly christian, religious power whores began to take place, centuries later.

Prior to this repression of nature, there was simply no concept of making a value judgment regarding having sex with whomever was amenable, although as this idea began to propagate it was considered rude in the extreme to make such judgments and only the basest of plebes would engage in such abhorrent behavior.

[genie_weenie]

33. Why is everyone so ready to read into 300?

The only thing 300 has in common with Bush and the Iraq Occupation is what people have taken into the movie in their own brains.

Leonides is Bush??? The man who leads from the front that's really stretching things. I think Xerxes is more likely Bush. The Power mad, son of Darius (41) attacking the same country which vexed his father. Who leads from behind, demands absolute subservience to himself.

And Spartan society was that brutal. How exactly were the Spartan almost Christian? I don't remember Christ killing large numbers of people?

Ever since Thermoplye every society in Europe re-read the battle as saving Europe from Asia and wanted to make their military battles equivocal with it.

Also I didn't read people complaining that Sin City was based on how great Bushes america is, it's done by the same author, Frank Miller. Miller envisioned this graphic novel back after seeing the 60s move the 300 Spartans. And he played into many of his fantastical stylized ideas.

It's like V for Vendetta, try enjoying it without grafting your own ideas onto it...

[nadinbrzezinski]

38. Because both sides are seeing it through partisan eyes eom

[genie_weenie]

42. The only thing which upsets me is the Thespians get ignored

They stayed too.

Oh well.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Yeah taht bothered me too

but you could see that as Miller making a comment, though veiled for those of us who know the history, on how at times ahem, legends are born'

The problem is the comment is lost on most viewers I fear... err there was a battle there?

;-)

[Little Wing]

44. And that bottomless hole in the courtyard was totally inaccurate

It was really a square, this movie is not historical at all :sarcasm:

[genie_weenie]

48. Well, come on!

I did not mind the stylized uber-violence, but man the poor Thespians! And I was hoping to see Xerxes have the Hellespont whipped!

[petronius]

81. Yeah, but a bunch of them surrendered (Pansies!)

Anyway, '1000' would be a crappy movie title... :)

[Joanne98]

86. You mean the guys who "cut and ran" ?

Another reason it was a freeper movie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

89. They were not even Thespians

they represented the many Greek elements that pulled back

This was a rear guard action

[genie_weenie]

105. Xerxes is Bush, Leonides is Saddam.

Who had the beard and who was clean shaven? Who had to fight to be made King against wolves and his own people? Saddam. Who inherited his kingdom due to his father? Bush.

Bam.
Bam.
Bam.

[TheBaldyMan]

131. were they pipe-smoking biker chicks? I must have been getting popcorn then

:popcorn:

[Joanne98]

63. This was DEFINITELY a pro-Bush film.

Leonides can't get more troops? Freedom speeches? Fighting mysticism and transvestite pagan Persian kings who want to be worshipped as a God. COME ON! I was sure the Spartans were going to start singing, "God Bless America" at any moment. In fact, I don't know what was worse. Being really really really Bush/Limbaugh/Coulter like or sickening GROSS. I actually got a stomache ache. In one scene a deformed perverted Persian woman was playing cards with a donkey. I thought they were going to start a sex with animals scene. YUK!

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Joanne was part of this graphic novel

was released in 1998 are you having a problem comprehending?

Now lets look at the real history, shall we?

http://joseph_berrigan.tripod.com/id28.html

http://www.historynet.com/magazines/military_history/3038411.html

Now you should know that Miller wrote his novel in 1998 and it was LOOSELY based on history, and he even said... it did NOT REFLECT history

Now if Miller could see in 1998 what would be the situation today, the oracle at Delphi has moved

Now to the mysticism and the lack of moblization by Greek armies due to a festival of one kind or antoher, it did happen

Hell, combat operations were suspended for the Olympic Games.

[Joanne98]

106. Sorry. I'm still tramatized!

[ghostsofgiants]

143. Trauma is no excuse for being hysteric and what seems almost intentionally ignorant.

It's been pointed out a number of times that it's based on a graphic novel that came out in 1998, and you really should have researched it before going to it. It's a stupid move to not research ANY movie, but especially one that has potential to be unsuitable for kids if you plan on taking your kids.

It's not pro-Bush, and it's really your fault if your kid saw something you didn't want him to see.

[Joanne98]

192. It IS pro-Bush! "Freedom" "Honor Duty Country"

I hate getting my intelligence insulted.

[nadinbrzezinski]

193. Freedom

I showed you the Speech from Pericles the concept comes FROM GREECE my dear

Honor, Duty Country, is carved OUTSIDE the Miltary Academy at West Point

And I never saw that one in the movie.

I guess the MA at the Point has been pro bush even before Presscott was a gleam in the eye of her mother

[Joanne98]

196. zzzzzz

:boring:

[Little Wing]

198. Well, you've not only proven how ignorant you are, but now how obnoxious you are

I suggest you pack up your keyboard and sit quietly, as you're clearly just here to fire off barbs and watch the fireworks.

[Joanne98]

200. I'm the one getting attacked for not liking a movie...

[mondo joe]

203. Incorrect - you are being called on ridiculous and false statements.

No one cares if you like the movie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

207. Not liking a movie is one thing

making ridiculous statements is quite another

There are things in the film I did not quite like that much

Shall we say some of the bloody scenes were a tad much, even for a medic who's seen some of those injuries

But I am not going to attack it on the ridiculous partisan eyes you are critiquing it

I showed you the origins of the concept of freedom (mind you I scratched the surface... I did not even go into Aristotle whose view was slightly different than his master Plato, or for that matter all of Pericles... but you get the point)

But to say that duty, honor, country is to support the bush administration... geeezze louis those words were carved at West Point when it was built... and it is the motto of the army, has been for 226 years, are you trying to tell me that the army has always been pro bush? Oy vey.

Now I could try to explain what those terms mean in army parlance, but I fear in your partisan eyes they mean something completely diferent

Now here is a huge clue for ya... you realize that many armies across the world follow these principles, roughly? I guess they are also pro bush.

[ghostsofgiants]

What intelligence?

From an interview with Zack Snyder, the director.

WN: In the film, a tiny bunch of European freedom fighters hold off a huge army of Iranian slaves. Everyone is sure to be translating this into contemporary politics.

Snyder: Someone asked me, "Is George Bush Leonidas or Xerxes?" I said, "That's an awesome question." The fact they asked tells me that this movie can mean one thing to one person and something totally different to another. I clearly didn't mean either. I was just trying to get Frank's book (My note: THAT WAS PUBLISHED IN 1998!!!) made into a movie.

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/1,72775-0.html

[Joanne98]

197. zzzzzzzz

:boring:

[ghostsofgiants]

199. Yeah, that's right, ignore it.

Ignore the fact that you're concluding a pro-Bush stance when what you should really be taking away from the fact that Miller used that type of rhetoric in 1998 is that Bush is just drawing on rhetoric that has been around for ages.

[nadinbrzezinski]

163. Ok that's it, TRAUMATIZED? WTF?

Traumatized was the woman who lost her home after her hubby almost killed her

Traumatized are the troops coming back from the War

Traumatized are the people who lived through Katrina

Hells bells I could even claim the mantle (Having seem some of this in the flesh, which I know causes PTSD in the long run... yep the nightmares are nice)

Yet I don't claim trauma.

This is a movie, if you were traumatized by this, hope you are never in any of the above sitautions... that is real trauma my dear... what you are doing is drama.. a slight but important difference.

Perhaps I am being harsh... but hells bells I have seen real trauam, and a movie does not qualify. unless you are four years old.

[GirlinContempt]

96. You can find connections or messages in just about ANYTHING

Pick an era in history, I bet you can find some story in it that you can apply to something happening now. Just because you choose to be fixated on something and see it everywhere doesn't mean it IS. Just because someone makes a connection doesn't mean it was intended.

[genie_weenie]

101. No.

Miller has stated he began thinking of a graphic novel of Thermoplyae after seeing the movie The 300 Spartans as a youngster (filmed in 1962) and the graphic novel was finished in 1998.

Unless of course, you think Sin City was commentary on the Washington DC of Bush as well...

[TahitiNut]

34. I notice in the clips shown on TV ...

... that the "Spartans" have erect nipples. It's either cold or they're "getting off" on killing. It seems obvious that to me such a movie appeals to prurient interests.

[The Straight Story]

36. I got erect nipples reading your post

I don't even want to know what that means :)

[TahitiNut]

37. !

:rofl: :rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. RLOL

this is FUNNY....

[Cabcere]

80. Welcome to the club...

...perhaps I've said too much. :yoiks:

[Joanne98]

66. This one Persian had rings on his nipples. Then he beheaded someone.

[Little Wing]

67. Was he at band camp?

[Joanne98]

73. No. He was fat with blood all over his body.

[nadinbrzezinski]

75. And a represenation of greek and Persian myth

[Joanne98]

85. Fat bloody men with rings on their nipples represent something? LOL!

[nadinbrzezinski]

88. You are an expert in mythology?

I am also sure you raelize they had a giant in there, smack dab in the middle of Greek Mythology

Now care to adress the Funeral oration?

Perhaps Plato's "the Laws," I posted

or the snippet on Spartan history?

Perhaps the fact that the battle actually was foguth and three hundred Spartans actually died there... we know that due to the plaque

Go tell the Spartans
Here we lie
As the law demands

Rough translation, one of the many out there

Now if you go watch a movie with partisan eyes, you will see all though them cute eyes... and see things that are not there.

[Joanne98]

110. Whatever. It still sucked!

[nadinbrzezinski]

45. Ever read the Histories

by Herodous?

One of the painfully few refernces to actual history as it has come down the years is the disdain Spartains had for Athenians and Athenian Democracy.

That was one amongst the handful of actual references to the soources that have come to us across 2400 years.

Bravo, you caught the disdain... Herodotus and Pericles did their job...

But I repeat there were few refernces to the actual hsitory... you caught one... there were two others

Exposure

Go tell the Spartans, that plaque is still in place

After that it is fantasy and art

Oh and I did watch it and ahem enjoyed it...

Alas I left my partisan glasses at home

[TahitiNut]

128. In all fairness, it should be pointed out that there's a lot of controversy ...

... regarding the degree to which Herodotus' Histories are myth and legend and how much is based on fact (or "actual history"). What seems clear, despite the controversy, is (1) "history is written by the winners," and (2) SOME significant part is myth.

I think it might be fair to regard Herodotus' Histories as the "300" of the day - entertaining and rabble-rousing ... appealing to the prurient interests of a culture where war was 'normal.'

It's at least arguable without being too far afield. Just because something's a "classic" doesn't mean it wasn't written, at least in part, to appeal to the baser proclivities of the time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

158. Trust me

as a trained histrorian I can tell you, the farther back you go in time you run into several problems

1.- Lack of corroborating evidence

2.- Lack of other primary sources

3.- History back then is not what history is done today.

But you know why I wrote this... and it was the level of incredible and wilful ignorance exhibited once again

[Marr]

46. Well, I loved it. I think you're reading way too much into it.

It's based on a (beautifully done) comic that came out almost 10 years ago, and the guy who did it is far from a freeper.

[gatorboy]

51. I enjoyed the comic as well.

But Frank Miller not Freeperish? You're kidding, right? :rofl:

[Marr]

57. I don't think he is.

Outside of comics, the only thing I've ever heard him talking about is free speech, and saying that creative industries shouldn't cave to ratings systems.

But I'll admit I'm not a Frank Miller expert.:D

[gatorboy]

78. I'd say before 9/11 he was less so.

After 9/11 though he's taken the "You're either with us or against us road."

And the dialogue in his new Batman series has gotten a little....Odd. This is the comic legend writing?

Dick Grayson: Who the hell are you anyway, giving out orders like this?
Batman: What are you, dense? Are you retarded or something? Who the hell do you think I am? I'm the goddamn Batman.
Dick Grayson: So what do you call this thing, anyway?
Batman: The Batmobile.
Dick Grayson: That is so totally queer.
Batman: Shut up.

[Marr]

150. Haha- I've actually seen that page. Odd, yeah.

I've got to say though, I love alot of his work. I'd love to see them do Dark Night Returns as a movie someday. Maybe Clint Eastwood as Batman. Wee.

[Shine]

47. I have absolutely NO desire to see that movie.

It's disturbing to me how popular graphic violence has become in today's movies.

No wonder we've become so desensitized to violence, in general.

A sad testament to the state of our culture. :(

[Little Wing]

54. In truth, it's hardly violent compared to the Saw type sadism

in movies these days. I'd have more of a problem against people getting tortured to death than violent battle scenes. Battles with swords is a nasty place to be. 300 definitely sensationalizes Spartan ass-kicking, however Braveheart was much bloodier.

[Shine]

59. I put all those sorts of movies in the same category, frankly.

war, violence, murder, graphic blood-letting....Yuck.


Not really my thing...although I've certainly seen them, usually to my chagrin.

[AZBlue]

138. So do I - there's enough violence and suffering in the world already.

Why create more for "entertainment"? Why pay to see more?? I don't understand either the creators or the viewers of this kind of schlock. (and I work in the film business!)

[Shine]

147. Indeed you are right.

To each, their own, I guess....:eyes:

[David__77]

50. Saw it last night. I don't think it was too bad. I objected to a few lines.

The queen's line about "freedom isn't free" is clearly too comtemporary a reference, and a reactionary one implicitly. Sparta was not "free," but a slave society. So the blather about "freedom" was certainly over the top. On the other hand, the very notion of collective sacrifice in the name of a lofty ideal is not something to reflexively insult or oppose. The fight for truly great causes does indeed require such sacrifice, and yes the loss of life as well - martyrdom, in the real and not false backward sense. John Brown, anti-slavery activist, was, for instance, such a martyr. We cannot do without such models. So 300 is a mixed bag in my view. Pacifists will hate it, I'm sure. And all progressives will take offense to the right-wing-sounding linguistics, but taken at face value, it's not so bad at all.

[Joanne98]

72. Freedom isn't free, I almost chocked on my popcorn...

I can't think of ANYTHING I liked about it...

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. From The funeral oration

MOd Note, no copyright here, since it is oh 2300 years old

Thucydides: Pericles' Funeral Oration

At the end of the first year of war, the Athenians held, as was their custom, an elaborate funeral for all those killed in the war. The funeral oration over these dead was delivered by the brilliant and charismatic politician and general, Pericles, who perished a little bit later in the horrifying plague that decimated Athens the next year. The Funeral Oration is the classic statement of Athenian ideology, containing practically in full the patriotic sentiment felt by most Athenians. What I want you to ask yourself is: according to Pericles, what precisely makes Athens great? How does this compare to other city-states? What problems do you see in Pericles' description of Athens?


Most of those who have spoken here before me have commended the lawgiver who added this oration to our other funeral customs. It seemed to them a worthy thing that such an honor should be given at their burial to the dead who have fallen on the field of battle. But I should have preferred that, when men's deeds have been brave, they should be honored in deed only, and with such an honor as this public funeral, which you are now witnessing. Then the reputation of many would not have been imperiled on the eloquence or want of eloquence of one, and their virtues believed or not as he spoke well or ill. For it is difficult to say neither too little nor too much; and even moderation is apt not to give the impression of truthfulness. The friend of the dead who knows the facts is likely to think that the words of the speaker fall short of his knowledge and of his wishes; another who is not so well informed, when he hears of anything which surpasses his own powers, will be envious and will suspect exaggeration. Mankind are tolerant of the praises of others so long as each hearer thinks that he can do as well or nearly as well himself, but, when the speaker rises above him, jealousy is aroused and he begins to be incredulous. However, since our ancestors have set the seal of their approval upon the practice, I must obey, and to the utmost of my power shall endeavor to satisfy the wishes and beliefs of all who hear me.

I will speak first of our ancestors, for it is right and seemly that now, when we are lamenting the dead, a tribute should be paid to their memory. There has never been a time when they did not inhabit this land, which by their valor they will have handed down from generation to generation, and we have received from them a free state. But if they were worthy of praise, still more were our fathers, who added to their inheritance, and after many a struggle transmitted to us their sons this great empire. And we ourselves assembled here today, who are still most of us in the vigor of life, have carried the work of improvement further, and have richly endowed our city with all things, so that she is sufficient for herself both in peace and war. Of the military exploits by which our various possessions were acquired, or of the energy with which we or our fathers drove back the tide of war, Hellenic or Barbarian, I will not speak; for the tale would be long and is familiar to you. But before I praise the dead, I should like to point out by what principles of action we rose ~ to power, and under what institutions and through what manner of life our empire became great. For I conceive that such thoughts are not unsuited to the occasion, and that this numerous assembly of citizens and strangers may profitably listen to them.

Our form of government does not enter into rivalry with the institutions of others. Our government does not copy our neighbors', but is an example to them. It is true that we are called a democracy, for the administration is in the hands of the many and not of the few. But while there exists equal justice to all and alike in their private disputes, the claim of excellence is also recognized; and when a citizen is in any way distinguished, he is preferred to the public service, not as a matter of privilege, but as the reward of merit. Neither is poverty an obstacle, but a man may benefit his country whatever the obscurity of his condition. There is no exclusiveness in our public life, and in our private business we are not suspicious of one another, nor angry with our neighbor if he does what he likes; we do not put on sour looks at him which, though harmless, are not pleasant. While we are thus unconstrained in our private business, a spirit of reverence pervades our public acts; we are prevented from doing wrong by respect for the authorities and for the laws, having a particular regard to those which are ordained for the protection of the injured as well as those unwritten laws which bring upon the transgressor of them the reprobation of the general sentiment.

And we have not forgotten to provide for our weary spirits many relaxations from toil; we have regular games and sacrifices throughout the year; our homes are beautiful and elegant; and the delight which we daily feel in all these things helps to banish sorrow. Because of the greatness of our city the fruits of the whole earth flow in upon us; so that we enjoy the goods of other countries as freely as our own.

Then, again, our military training is in many respects superior to that of our adversaries. Our city is thrown open to the world, though and we never expel a foreigner and prevent him from seeing or learning anything of which the secret if revealed to an enemy might profit him. We rely not upon management or trickery, but upon our own hearts and hands. And in the matter of education, whereas they from early youth are always undergoing laborious exercises which are to make them brave, we live at ease, and yet are equally ready to face the perils which they face. And here is the proof: The Lacedaemonians come into Athenian territory not by themselves, but with their whole confederacy following; we go alone into a neighbor's country; and although our opponents are fighting for their homes and we on a foreign soil, we have seldom any difficulty in overcoming them. Our enemies have never yet felt our united strength, the care of a navy divides our attention, and on land we are obliged to send our own citizens everywhere. But they, if they meet and defeat a part of our army, are as proud as if they had routed us all, and when defeated they pretend to have been vanquished by us all.

If then we prefer to meet danger with a light heart but without laborious training, and with a courage which is gained by habit and not enforced by law, are we not greatly the better for it? Since we do not anticipate the pain, although, when the hour comes, we can be as brave as those who never allow themselves to rest; thus our city is equally admirable in peace and in war. For we are lovers of the beautiful in our tastes and our strength lies, in our opinion, not in deliberation and discussion, but that knowledge which is gained by discussion preparatory to action. For we have a peculiar power of thinking before we act, and of acting, too, whereas other men are courageous from ignorance but hesitate upon reflection. And they are surely to be esteemed the bravest spirits who, having the clearest sense both of the pains and pleasures of life, do not on that account shrink from danger. In doing good, again, we are unlike others; we make our friends by conferring, not by receiving favors. Now he who confers a favor is the firmer friend, because he would rather by kindness keep alive the memory of an obligation; but the recipient is colder in his feelings, because he knows that in requiting another's generosity he will not be winning gratitude but only paying a debt. We alone do good to our neighbors not upon a calculation of interest, but in the confidence of freedom and in a frank and fearless spirit. To sum up: I say that Athens is the school of Hellas, and that the individual Athenian in his own person seems to have the power of adapting himself to the most varied forms of action with the utmost versatility and grace. This is no passing and idle word, but truth and fact; and the assertion is verified by the position to which these qualities have raised the state. For in the hour of trial Athens alone among her contemporaries is superior to the report of her. No enemy who comes against her is indignant at the reverses which he sustains at the hands of such a city; no subject complains that his masters are unworthy of him. And we shall assuredly not be without witnesses; there are mighty monuments of our power which will make us the wonder of this and of succeeding ages; we shall not need the praises of Homer or of any other panegyrist whose poetry may please for the moment, although his representation of the facts will not bear the light of day. For we have compelled every land and every sea to open a path for our valor, and have everywhere planted eternal memorials of our friendship and of our enmity. Such is the city for whose sake these men nobly fought and died; they could not bear the thought that she might be taken from them; and every one of us who survive should gladly toil on her behalf.

I have dwelt upon the greatness of Athens because I want to show you that we are contending for a higher prize than those who enjoy none of these privileges, and to establish by manifest proof the merit of these men whom I am now commemorating. Their loftiest praise has been already spoken. For in magnifying the city I have magnified them, and men like them whose virtues made her glorious. And of how few Hellenes 1 can it be said as of them, that their deeds when weighed in the balance have been found equal to their fame! I believe that a death such as theirs has been the true measure of a man's worth; it may be the first revelation of his virtues, but is at any rate their final seal. For even those who come short in other ways may justly plead the valor with which they have fought for their country; they have blotted out the evil with the good, and have benefited the state more by their public services than they have injured her by their private actions. None of these men were enervated by wealth or hesitated to resign the pleasures of life; none of them put off the evil day in the hope, natural to poverty, that a man, though poor, may one day become rich. But, deeming that the punishment of their enemies was sweeter than any of these things, and that they could fall in no nobler cause, they determined at the hazard of their lives to be honorably avenged, and to leave the rest. They resigned to hope their unknown chance of happiness; but in the face of death they resolved to rely upon themselves alone. And when the moment came they were minded to resist and suffer, rather than to fly and save their lives; they ran away from the word of dishonor, but on the battlefield their feet stood fast, and in an instant, at the height of their fortune, they passed away from the scene, not of their fear, but of their glory.

Such was the end of these men; they were worthy of Athens, and the living need not desire to have a more heroic spirit, although they may pray for a less fatal issue. The value of such a spirit is not to be expressed in words. Any one can discourse to you for ever about the advantages of a brave defense, which you know already. But instead of listening to him I would have you day by day fix your eyes upon the greatness of Athens, until you become filled with the love of her; and when you are impressed by the spectacle of her glory, reflect that this empire has been acquired by men who knew their duty and had the courage to do it, who in the hour of conflict had the fear of dishonor always present to them, and who, if ever they failed in an enterprise, would not allow their virtues to be lost to their country, but freely gave their lives to her as the fairest offering which they could present at her feast. The sacrifice which they collectively made was individually repaid to them; for they received again each one for himself a praise which grows not old, and the noblest of all tombs, I speak not of that in which their remains are laid, but of that in which their glory survives, and is proclaimed always and on every fitting occasion both in word and deed. For the whole earth is the tomb of famous men; not only are they commemorated by columns and inscriptions in their own country, but in foreign lands there dwells also an unwritten memorial of them, graven not on stone but in the hearts of men. Make them your examples, and, esteeming courage to be freedom and freedom to be happiness, do not weigh too nicely the perils of war. The unfortunate who has no hope of a change for the better has less reason to throw away his life than the prosperous who, if he survive, is always liable to a change for the worse, and to whom any accidental fall makes the most serious difference. To a man of spirit, cowardice and disaster coming together are far more bitter than death striking him unperceived at a time when he is full of courage and animated by the general hope.

Wherefore I do not now pity the parents of the dead who stand here; I would rather comfort them. You know that your dead have passed away amid manifold vicissitudes; and that they may be deemed fortunate who have gained their utmost honor, whether an honorable death like theirs, or an honorable sorrow like yours, and whose share of happiness has been so ordered that the term of their happiness is likewise the term of their life. I know how hard it is to make you feel this, when the good fortune of others will too often remind you of the gladness which once lightened your hearts. And sorrow is felt at the want of those blessings, not which a man never knew, but which were a part of his life before they were taken from him. Some of you are of an age at which they may hope to have other children, and they ought to bear their sorrow better; not only will the children who may hereafter be born make them forget their own lost ones, but the city will be doubly a gainer. She will not be left desolate, and she will be safer. For a man's counsel cannot have equal weight or worth, when he alone has no children to risk in the general danger. To those of you who have passed their prime, I say: "Congratulate yourselves that you have been happy during the greater part of your days; remember that your life of sorrow will not last long, and be comforted by the glory of those who are gone. For the love of honor alone is ever young, and not riches, as some say, but honor is the delight of men when they are old and useless.

To you who are the sons and brothers of the departed, I see that the struggle to emulate them will be an arduous one. For all men praise the dead, and, however preeminent your virtue may be, I do not say even to approach them, and avoid living their rivals and detractors, but when a man is out of the way, the honor and goodwill which he receives is unalloyed. And, if I am to speak of womanly virtues to those of you who will henceforth be widows, let me sum them up in one short admonition: To a woman not to show more weakness than is natural to her sex is a great glory, and not to be talked about for good or for evil among men.

I have paid the required tribute, in obedience to the law, making use of such fitting words as I had. The tribute of deeds has been paid in part; for the dead have them in deeds, and it remains only that their children should be maintained at the public charge until they are grown up: this is the solid prize with which, as with a garland, Athens crowns her sons living and dead, after a struggle like theirs. For where the rewards of virtue are greatest, there the noblest citizens are enlisted in the service of the state. And now, when you have duly lamented, every one his own dead, you may depart.
ENDNOTES
1 "Hellenes" is another word for "Greeks."

[Joanne98]

102. That really nice. The movie version went like this...

All they wanted is for you to remember them. I almost yelled out. YEAH. When you come back wounded don't ask for any HEALTH CARE. Maybe someone can take this movie and make a comedy out of it. It has real possibilities.

[nadinbrzezinski]

104. I watched the movie

and as I said I Left my partisan glasses at home

[TheBaldyMan]

140. Bush isn't even a Spartan, "courageous from ignorance ...

but hesitant on reflection" he is below the scorn of the Athenians.

The guy's a coward, an ignorant coward who is a stranger to reason.

[kiahzero]

148. Freedom (as in speech) isn't free (as in beer).

What's so offensive about that? You have to work to keep it - whether that work is a military operation, fighting in a courtroom (my chosen route, as I'm in law school now), or simply making a donation to the ACLU. I find it hard to believe that you honestly think that freedom (as in speech) requires no effort to preserve.

Thanks to the Free Software Foundation for the (as in beer) and (as in speech) distinction.

[hedgehog]

82. You have to remember, the Spartans considered themselves to be free.

They didn't ask the opinion of the helots! The concept of freedom is evolving. I feel silly pointing out the obvious, but how many slave holder fought in the American Revolution for "freedom"? The fighters at the Alamo were very flawed, as was their notion of freedom; but that's an important place , too. I think the thing to remember is that because the Spartans (and the Thebens) held the line at Thermopile long enough tho delay the Persians, the Persians lost the was and Greece survived as a bunch of independent states. Slave holders all, but they articulated our concepts of democracy and freedom. If Greece had been absorbed into the Persian Empire, it's be a different world today.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Just to add

the Athenians did not ask the Helots either, or their women for the most part.

And yes, you are pointing the obvous, but sadly it is necessary

[TheBaldyMan]

135. "Slave-owning dictatorship comes at a cost" is a bit of a mouthful.

and doesn't scan as well.

Freedom isn't free is not a phrase that I can get to heated over. It's the sort of crap that belongs on a bumper sticker right next to a support the troops ribbon.

Just recently I saw a re-run of the Mel Gibson film 'The Patriot', I lost count of the number of times 'stay the course' was trotted out.

It's the same kind of lazy script-writing that abounds in Hollywood blockbusters. That's what happens when you spend all the money on special effects and marketing. It really isn't worth getting upset about, it is Hollywood history.

edit for the title line.

[smalll]

58. I think you have a strong point, because the anti-gay slant of the movie is totally bad history -

What is true is that there was a lot of homosexual activity taking place in ancient Greece, in Sparta as much as in Athens and elsewhere. Sparta was the tough, hard city-state focused on war, but there's no historical evidence that Sparta was somehow uniquely anti-gay amongst the Greek cities.

Also, while it would be approaching fair from at least one historical perspective to portray the Persians as more effete, sybaritic and slavish than the free men of Greece, there is NO evidence at all that the Persian kings and their courts were any more homosexual inclined than Athens or Sparta, again, the Greek culture of the time was far more accepting of homosexual activity than the Persian culture was.

I haven't seen the movie, but the anarchronistic anti-gay stuff in it sounds pretty egregious since it completely twists the real history of the time.

[nadinbrzezinski]

62. I've seen it

and the bashing was not there, the bashing of Athenian Democracy was there, but that is not anachronistic

[GirlinContempt]

60. Suck it up, princess.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

61. I've only seen the movie trailer on TV and it looked like crap to me

I'm probably being unfair because I haven't seen it and I always try to find something positive to say about a film I've sat through because frankly I love the movies.

But what I saw in the ads, with heavy metal music and awful looking cartoonish images just looked unwatchable to me, with no relationship to any reality or history, and it's why I haven't gone to see it. I'll wait till it comes out on cable.

[Joanne98]

69. That was about it. A sick freeper cartoon. Horrible..

[Tektonik]

65. must we go through this for every movie ever made?

do your research first instead of being an ignorant fool

this is not a freeper movie, just a production based on a graphic novel

[nadinbrzezinski]

71. Since at least, as I have been reminded

Apocalypse now... and it has just gotten worst

[saltpoint]

77. Hi, Joanne98. I haven't seen the film, and may skip it after your

review.

Sparta left us nearly nothing.

Athens left us practically everything, including our form of government, and the option of the arts to enhance our stay on the earth. Poetry. Literature. Philosophy. Science. Architecture. Many gifts. Some of them first-evers.

Sparta had military ferocity. And these days anyay, the only thing it's good for is to make things worse.

[Joanne98]

83. That's what I thought. But in this movie Athenians were, "philosophers

and boy-lovers" Their words not mine. IMO. The movie was insulting to just about everybody. I'm surprised anybody is even sticking up for it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

91. Perhaps becuase we left our partisan glasses at home

and saw it for what it was. ART

next you will compare this to Lenny Riefensthal's grand opus on the 1936 Nuremberg meetings

[walldude]

99. That's Leni Riefenstahl

Yes, a woman was Hitlers film propagandist.. Beyond that I agree with you, the OP has totally jumped the shark on this one...

[nadinbrzezinski]

103. my spelling sucks i know

[walldude]

114. LOL... sorry, I thought you thought it was a dude named Lenny..

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

116. There are days I go

oh great Word (or insert word processor here) find my errors.

I truly suck in spelling

;-)

[Homer Wells]

84. Pretty hard for them to even be ALMOST Christians

since the battle they are relating occurred a very long time before Jesus Christ was even a gleam in HIS Daddy's eye.

:7

[Joanne98]

97. I know. But the spartans were "mystic fighters" AND

They didn't like the oracle. If forgot what they called her. Something derogatory. The Spartans were made out to be non-pagan. Even though we know that's not true.

[hedgehog]

87. I think the notion of women as less than human probably is

historically accurate. Ironically, the Spartan women had more freedom than other Greek women because they were encouraged to be athletic in order to ensure they bore strong sons. Other Greek women stayed home , cloistered and covered, something like the women in Saudi Arabia today.

As for the Delphi oracle; I don't know if there were male priests running the show, but I do know it's one of the ongoing arguments in modern archeology trying to determine just what gas the Oracles inhaled before speaking.

[nadinbrzezinski]

90. Helium is the current favorite, isn't it?

[Little Wing]

92. I understood it was methane

but then, I've taken but 2 philosophy classes

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. Neither am I

but I do know this is kind of a hot argument...

[Joanne98]

98. The Oracle was high, out of her mind. Controlled by deformed priests.

I hope the wicca women put a curse on the makers of this movie. They really deserve it.

[walldude]

100. Uh.. I have some tweezers you can borrow... n/t

[Marrah_G]

124. You know nothing about Wicca

You bitch about being offended and then you say some shit like "I hope the wicca women put a curse on the makers of this movie. They really deserve it." You're ignorance is astounding.

1) Wiccans DO NOT cast curses on people! We aren't evil little trolls who put a pox on anyone who insults us.

2) Wiccans are intelligent enough to know the difference between animated graphic art and political commentary.

3) There is no "wicca woman", There are however, Wiccan Men and Wiccan Women, there are even Wiccan children. I myself have 3.

All your concern about anti- this and anti- that and here you are doing the same damn thing.

[Lilith Velkor]

151. The OP deserves it for insulting Wiccans and spouting ignorant shit

...in my opinion.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

216. Wow...you just get more and more ignorant.

Amazing.

[TheBaldyMan]

144. some women were quite successful independantly in ancient Greece

they weren't common but it was possible. A particularly successful prostitute was one of the richest and most powerful people in Athens, believe it or not.

The vast majority of women did live menial and subservient lives.

[Joanne98]

107. I'm going to bed. My final review.

Pro-Bush, pro-cult of masculinity, gross, stupid, insulting, perverted, patriotic, deformed, dark, vomit-friendly...

The only thing I can say good about it was, the special effects were X-box like. But they were ruined by the content. I'm giving it an F minus.

Go see it if you want but you've been warned..

I forgot racist and sexist...:puke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

111. Didn't like it that some of us who have watched

it didn't agree with you?


ON ANY OF THIS?

Partisan glasses, leave them at home.

Oh never mind, you are not going to go watch movies from now on

[mondo joe]

112. Who would be dumb enough to go see a movie without looking at a preview or reading

a review anyway?

[EOTE]

186. Wow, why did you post this exactly?

This thread has shown me that you're capable of making a ridiculously uninformed opinion by watching a 2 hour movie, but reading a thread with dozens of informed voices chiming in does nothing for you. There is nothing that could be said to change your mind, so why did you post this?

[Raskolnik]

117. I'm betting you spend a lot of your day being insulted.

I'm really sorry you were forced to watch this movie.

If only there were some way you could have discovered what this movie was like *before* you took a teenage boy to see it.

[Forkboy]

118. Any movie this upsetting to someone I need to see pronto.

[dysfunctional press]

119. nobody "warned" you????

since you obviously have access to a computer, it might surprise you to learn that there are LOTS and LOTS of movie review sites to go to- there are also television movie review programs, and even the good ol' newspaper usually has LOTS of info on current movies- including the ratings.

"nobody warned me"....sheesh....:eyes:

[lynne]

121. It is just a movie, for cryin' out loud!

It is strictly entertainment and is based on a comic book with loose ties to an actual event. No one is cramming for an exam while watching this. As for not knowing it was Rated R - it's obvious you have a computer - use it!

[Shine]

122. I don't understand why the OP is being flamed so badly for stating her opinion

:shrug:
I mean, c'mon, cut her a break, people. I've seen some pretty nasty comments in this thead that are just plain mean.

She gets to have her own opinion, even if it differs from yours.

[sir_captain]

125. I think what a lot of posters are objecting to

is her seeming lack of knowledge about the historical event and the source material that the movie is based on.

And lines like "oh, it's based on a comic book...that's why it's stupid"

Not a lot of deep thought there, anyway

That said, as you say, she is entirely entitled to her opinion, obviously and her head shouldn't be bitten off over that.

[Shine]

126. Thank you for understanding. I felt I had to speak up in her defense.

Live and let live, that's what I say. :D

:hi:

[Joanne98]

190. I'm not ignorant about Greek history....

The movie didn't have a lot of history in it. That's one of my complaints. There wasn't enough dialoge to put in the history. The sex and violence was more important. As usual. And I'm getting attacked by the very same people who attacked me when I started a thread bitching about the movie "Let's go to prison". I didn't think prison rape was funny but some people will defend anything.

[Raskolnik]

127. Perhaps b/c of statements like "The is a movie ONLY Ann Coulter could love"

You are correct that the poster has the right to her opinion. She has every right in the world to display her poorly informed, histrionic opinion for all of us to see and comment upon.

If she is incapable of doing even the most cursory research into the movie she is paying money to see, she is perfectly within her rights to complain loudly and strenuously about the injustice of the world that did not adequately protect her delicate sensibilities.

[Tektonik]

133. sure she gets her own opinion

but when it's as off-base as hers is, she deserves to get flamed

[GirlinContempt]

139. Of course she gets to have her own opinion.

But her opinion isn't sacrosanct. Most of her opinion has been lazy and ill informed. She gets to HAVE it but no one else is required to like it or respect it or not question it.

[Shine]

142. I think it's possible to disagree with someone without insulting them.

that's all I'm saying. It's rude and mean, in my book.

[GirlinContempt]

145. Yeah

I just generally object to the opinion defense.

[and-justice-for-all]

129. 300 fuckin rocked!!

They took a true event and added alot of dynamics to it, it is a masterpiece of visual entertainment.

I didnt feel I was watching a anything remotely close to being in Coulters favor or paying tribute to ShrubCo. The Spartans were HOT!!! I loved it and Xerxes was a "god king" in the movie and as Persian literature has described him, he thought he was a god.

Your terribly foolish think that the events in history are paved with gold. Those days where perilless times, you either were conquered our you conqured, it was not pretty back them. War is still War regardless of the times, bloody and unapologetic...

Homosexuality has been around as long as there has be humans...

The movie kicked major ass and I might go see it again.

And by the way, Freedom is not free.

"THIS....IS.....SPARTA!!!!!!"

[CatWoman]

130. well

I'm still going to see it.

the narrative from Creative Loafing sounds pretty good, and warns to stay away from the political "message".

http://atlanta.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A210538

[truebrit71]

189. You'll enjoy it my dear...plenty of beefcake to enjoy....

...Never knew that Spartans spoke a with a broad Scottish accent though? Musts missed that day in school.... ;-)

It is a blood-soaked fight-filled popcorn chewing movie...

Tons of blood, very little message and a smokin' hot chick...

All of this political message stuff is pure bullshit...

[Karenina]

132. In the words of the sainted Neil Postman

Americans are entertained to death.

[Norwood]

134. 300 was one of the best movies I had seen in a while!

This movie got a ton of hype when it came out and the previews should have given you an idea on what exactly this movie was all about. I'll repeat what nadinbrzezinski said earlier and say, take the partisan glasses off every once in a while. We get the idea you didnt like it and I respect that, but you don't seem to respect the fact that other people did enjoy it. I loved the movie and I'll be buying it the second it comes out to own.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

136. I Heard It Was A Great Movie Actually. I Can't Wait To See It. Hopefully This Week.

I'm curious what my take on it will be after having seen it.

[demgurl]

137. I saw it and enjoyed it.

I saw it a few days ago and thought it was one of the most beautiful movies I had ever seen. I enjoyed the story line and the fantasy of it all but the cinematography was breathtaking. I loved the way the human body was lighted. The men's bodies were amazing and the nude scene, with the queen, left me speechless. You could tell it was heavily lifted from the graphic novel and that made the eye candy even tastier.

I must admit I saw it when I had an awful stomach virus and so I had to visit the bathroom on four different occasions. It was all I could do to sit in my seat until I knew my body could not hold out any longer. It was painful to tear myself away from the screen but I knew I had to.

SPOILER ALERT

I was impressed with how proud the women were. The queen spoke up for herself and stated they were the only women in the world as they were the only ones who bore real men. She stayed strong and wanted to protect herself and her city even while her king was gone. Being a rape victim myself, I could only grimace as she gave herself to her enemy just so she could protect the people of her city. The pain in her face was evident and I sat there wondering if I could ever have been as courageous as she was. And then to see her stand up at the council. The emotions conveyed on her face told so much. To see her take stab her enemy and use his own words against him showed such strength and resolve. I truly enjoyed it when she told him it would not be over quickly and he would NOT enjoy it. Wow!!!

But back to the cinematography. I told my husband I have to see the movie again so I can see it in its entirety. My husband has decided to go see it because of how beautiful I said it was. Even if you are a woman, you can still appreciate the beauty of the queen's body and how it is shown in graphic novel form. Her nipples are erect and she is making love to her king. There is a chemistry there you can feel. And the king makes it known to his queen that he values her opinions.

It is an amazing movie and one I highly recommend.

[antonialee839]

146. No wonder the freeper I work with is so intent

on seeing this movie.

[nadinbrzezinski]

160. If he goes with partisan eyes

when he comes back, slide a DD-4 for me (Enlistment form)

[RB TexLa]

149. Someone must have missed Birth of a Nation

[nadinbrzezinski]

161. Now that was quite the propaganda movie

I had to watch it in college and it was almost painful

[nadinbrzezinski]

156. Why threads like this bother me at a basic level

1.- Liking or dislkking a movie is fine...

2.- Where I draw the line is where every movie that comes out now is seen through this amazing partisan eye.

3.- If you are going to go watch a movie with a teen ager, at the very least check the ratings before going... and if you realize it is an R movie... step out of the theater and talk with management. I am sure they will refund the money or give you a ticket to another show.

4.- There are times the ignorance just astounds me.

[MrSlayer]

159. I've seen it twice so far. I love it.

I guess this makes me Ann Coulter? The fact that it was written in 1999 makes your whole premise ludicrous. Get a grip, this movie is not about Bush or his ridiculous war, it's based on the graphic novels and is historical. I'm going to see it again when I get the chance.

[wicket]

162. I guess I'm Ann Coulter too

I was skeptical going in but came out loving it. I definitely want to see it again.

[nadinbrzezinski]

164. Gee, this club is growing

:-)

[Firepit 462]

173. My god, is this still going on ?

I've been out of pocket for a few days, started reading some DU this afternoon, and there is STILL outrage over this freakin movie ?

Has anybody claimed that I can't be a "good " liberal if I loved 300 yet? I loved the movie, and I think I will see it once every week that there is a limp ass thread trashing it. I'll start my own "reverse" boycott.

[nadinbrzezinski]

174. The OP did, essentially

so welcome to the club, aparently you and I are closet freepers.

I see the humor in this. And yes I would watch it again... if I had the time ...

Deadlines

[Firepit 462]

176. I've got some time,

But remember from another thread, since I loved the movie I must "love to kill kittens". So I've got to make a quick stop at the animal shelter, and maybe the kid in front of PetSmart with the box of kittens will make me a volume deal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

177. Damn I knew I was forgeting something

Kittens...
Check....

[Firepit 462]

179. I might be running a little late

my "Klansmen for the 300" pot luck dinner might run late, I guess I'll just throw a few kittens out the window on my way to the theatre.

I'll save you a seat, and sneak in a kitten or two so you can squish em' before the show.

[nadinbrzezinski]

180. RLOL

and let me add this

:sarcasm: before somebody takes this too seriously

:-)

[Firepit 462]

181. Thanks, and take care.

[donco6]

166. I'm looking forward to it.

I'll make my own judgments.

[riverdeep]

165. Eh,

I'll probably glance at it when it's free in a couple years, no hurry for me. I've had really bad luck when it comes to enjoying movies adapted from comics. So far I've hated-Batman (all of them), Spiderman, Daredevil, Hulk, the Crow, probably some others.

I didn't know this guy did Sin City, hated that too-although it was sort of visually interesting, that's not what I go to see a movie for. I can put in a video game for that.

Methinks the OP is doing a bit of leg pulling.

[Bridget Burke]

167. IMDB & Rotten Tomatoes are two sites with many movie reviews.

Check them out before you invest in any more movie tickets. Or you could have checked out the half dozen threads on the movie here at DU.

The movie is based on a Graphic Novel--aka "Comic Book." The Graphic Novel was inspired by a movie about a historical event. Some of the things you found offensive are, in fact, real history. (Or very old propaganda.)

I may wait for the DVD of 300; few movies convince me to brave the cineplex. But--that's my choice as an informed consumer. And I prefer to get my history from books. Read some history; you might be surprised!

[Balbus]

170. Great movie. I recommend it.

Of course, I didn't go see it for the politics, nor take anyting political out of it - only a fucking idiot would do that.

[jayfish]

171. I Loved It...

and I can't wait until it arrives on DVD. Sometimes a movie is just a movie.

Jay

[Greyskye]

172. Did you walk out of the movie?

If not, then why the hell not? You obviously knew you hated it by the time you were less then half way through. :eyes:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

218. Of course not. It's more fun to watch it all, then bitch about it on DU.

:eyes:

[leeroysphitz]

182. Just saw this movie on Sunday. Excellent film.

And no it isn't about George Bush's war of choice. I really can't begin to fathom how anyone on either side could possibly make such a connection. What an unnecessary and flimsy stretch! I mean really. This film was about the underdogs. You can call our military many many things but to think of our military, (which is arguably one of the largest, best trained, best equipped military forces the world has EVER seen) as underdogs in Iraq or anywhere else is preposterous.

300 was a refreshingly adult film. I don't mean pornographic I just mean the story it was based on (written in the mid to late eighties BTW) was not made to pander to 13 year olds (like almost everything else seems to be these days). It's very tiresome to have all my entertainment shredded down to fit the fickle tastes of middle school children and the often times prudish limits our society places on the entertainments we allow them.

It was violent, it was gory and it was filled to the brim with outrageous historical inaccuracies and so what? It was still as fine an example of cinematic story telling as anything out in recent memory (with the exception of the sublime "Children of Men")

I wouldn't recommend this film to everyone. I know that not everyone is a fan of "stylized" violence or the occasional glimpse of a nude female (or GASP!) male form but again I say so what? To each his/her own.

[JackRiddler]

183. I doubt you were watching very carefully...

Since no Athenians whatsoever are depicted in this film, and they are only briefly referred to. The oracle of the film is not at Delphi, but depicted as Spartan, under the control of fictionalized (totally distorted) Spartan "ephors." And the R rating is slapped on every poster, so if you didn't know it was rated R, that's not anyone's fault but your own.

That being said, this film is worthy of some of your criticisms.

A review:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x413207

[Ron Green]

184. "A movie is just a movie"

is what people want you to believe when they have an interest in pushing the trappings of Empire. I wonder about the timing of a hugely-hyped, big-box-office popular culture event when Bush and his handlers are desperately trying to maintain the level of fear it takes for a great nation to allow a few war makers to subvert the values of most of its people, and of most of the world's people as well.

Cloaking this movie in "history" or "graphic novel art" to explain its value beyond masturbatory violent imagery for the masses is irresponsible, in my opinion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

187. So a comic book writtten in 1998

somehow saw current events?

Wow the oracle at Delphi truly moved to Mr. Miller's studio

That said you can and should do high level movie critcism, but you first need to start by knowwing the sources of what you are dealign with

The inspiration for the graphic novel was the Spartans movie procduced early in 1961, or 62, per Mr. Miller's memory

So I guess that movie also saw into the current conditions.

WOW

As I said above, next we will see this compared to the Nuremberg Film made by Riefhensthal in 1936

[Ron Green]

204. You miss my point.

I'm not talking about whether the movie depicts current events or not, or whether it's historically accurate. I'm talking about the fact that it's heavily-hyped and aimed at a demographic that responds to violence and blind patriotism. When someone says "It's only a movie," he ignores the powerful effect of such a piece of entertainment upon the culture. People are flocking to this movie for all sorts of reasons, whether to see the hunky male stars or to marvel at the computer graphics, or just because it's the buzz. I reject the idea, though, at this critical time when support for war is eroding, that this is "only a movie." It's a piece of propaganda.

[nadinbrzezinski]

208. Well, we can certainly agree to disagree

given people do not even get the fact that the battle happened and that the film is loosely based on another made in 1962... to each its own

But if you want to believe it is propaganda go for it.

Mind you... Lord of the Rings was classified as pushing for the war in Iraq, never mind that the movie was ultimate an antiwar movie and a commentary on WW I

I fear my dear, you are missing the whole point... this movie is not pro military... and yes I have seen it.

What it is, is a skimming on an event that happened 2400 years ago, and if you put partisan eyes from the freeper point of view, you are going to go, whoohoo, freedom ain't free, et al

if you put your lefty partisan eyes, read this thread

But as a veteran of combat, seating by it watching it with my husband, also a veteran of combat, we saw it for it was.. a movie, speaking loosely, about an event that was somewhat critical in western history, that happened 2400 years ago, and mostly a translation of a comic book

Yes, the movie could suffer from some real criticism, and in fact I expect some folks to do that.

But the first problem is... getting them propaganda glasses off.

By the way, if you have any clue how any project like this makes it to the screen, you'd realize that the movie was released right now but hardly produced in the last year to bolster support for another war... but to each its own.

[Ron Green]

212. Not to bolster support for another war, but to bolster support for Empire, and for

war in general. Sorry if I'm not making myself clear on this, but I'm talking about the overarching question of an "imperial" view of the world vs. a "sustainable community" view. Most youth-oriented media (action films, "graphic novels," video games, hip-hop music) push an imperial world, based on competition and strife rather than cooperation. Absolutely understandable for children and young people, but really inappropriate for adults who must start to build a sustainable world, and soon.

NOTE: I don't advocate any sort of censorship. I just regret the hype, and I also miss real cinematography.

[nadinbrzezinski]

213. Perhaps I missed something here

but you are aware that this is an R rated movie

As such the audience they would be certainly be looking at is not there.

The 15 year old is not (or rather should not) go watch this movie.. nor would I take a teenager in, no way, no how.

Personally they should have gone for NC 17 (And I ams sure that they will release an extended, director's cut with the scenes that would have made it NC17... yep they were that close)

No, not because of the blood and gore, but the nudity... it also makes it harder for the 15 year old to sneak in

As to real cinema... it was... have you seen it? If you have not, you are missing amazing camera work.

By the way I work in media... as I develop role playing games, and when writing fiction I do pay attention to paying homage to the horrors of war...

Oh and a final note, and this is truly anectotal

When we went and watched it... there were scarecely any young adults, in fact the average age I'd place it at 35

[KansDem]

185. LOL!!! "Epic, Breasts, Graphic Violence" are the 1st 3 plot keywords on Internet Movie Database

Plot keywords for
300 (2006)

Epic
Breasts
Graphic Violence
Beheading
Best Friend
Archer
Sword And Sandal
Disembowelment
Death Of Hero
Based On Graphic Novel
Tyrant
Persia
Siege
Bare Butt
Loss Of Son
Number In Title
Rape
Stabbed In The Arm
Stabbed In The Eye
Stabbed In The Shoulder
Stabbed To Death
Stabbed In The Back
Stabbed In The Head
Trampled To Death
Traitor
Stabbed In The Chest
Shot To Death
Shot In The Chest
Severed Leg
Severed Head
Severed Arm
Arrow
Violent Movie
Soldier
Death Of Son
Dismemberment
Female Nudity
Fall From Height
Elephant
War
Spartan
Persian
Impalement
Sex
Face Slap
Hunchback
Cliff
Blood
Betrayal
Beaten To Death
Blood Splatter
Corpse
Decapitation
Gore
Child In Peril
Gash In The Face
Honor
Death Of Child
Deformity
Death
Battle Scene
Warrior
Ancient Greece
Warrior Race
Based On Comic Book
Sword
Political
Red Cape
Oracle
Massacre
Nudity
Grenade
Fall Off Cliff
Title Spoken By Character
Shield
Pit
Battle
Nude Girl
Battle Axe
Male Nudity
Love Slave
Slow Motion
Transvestite
Evisceration
Archery
Hand To Hand Combat
Historical
Rough Sex
Fantasy
Father Son Relationship
5th Century B.c.
Rhinoceros
Ogre
Giant Man
Triceratops
Spear
Stylization
Adultery
Loss Of Husband
Husband Wife Relationship
Based On Novel

IMDB

Okay, I know where this film's coming from! Hubba-hubba!!!

Oh, and "Epic breasts" would be better!

[Phillycat]

188. I LOVED it!

Straight white woman here, and I LOVED it. :D It was thoroughly entertaining. I wouldn't have tried to read politics into it, since that would be sort of dumb for a balls-to-the-wall action movie, wouldn't it? ;-)

[truebrit71]

191. People who see some nefarious right-wing political message in this film need to get out more...

...it is an action movie with lots of blood, lots of beefcake, and really cool fight scenes...

...and bugger all else...

[Joanne98]

194. I find it amazing, that people who bitch about the news everyday,

Defend every movie no matter how bad it is. The "media" is producing crummy products right across the board.. News/movies/music it all sucks. I think it's a corporate problem. E-mule is killing the record labels. Craigs list is killing the newspapers. The blogs are killing the talking heads, Youtube is killing Viacom.. Keep putting out trash..The sooner the corps get replaced by FREE STUFF the better. Art, shouldn't been in the hands of capitalists anyway.

[nadinbrzezinski]

209. And I am shocked you didn't even read the R rating of the movie

[Joanne98]

195. Scathing review of 300 by a LW website....

I'M NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO HATES THIS MOVIE!
http://www.alternet.org/movies/49029/

'300' Flick Is Ready-Made for the Right-Wing Crowd
By Steve Burgess, The Tyee
Posted on March 10, 2007, Printed on March 19, 2007
http://www.alternet.org/story/49029/
What's your favourite movie?

Someday soon, you may ask a new acquaintance that question, and just maybe -- because it takes all kinds -- your new friend will reply, "My favourite movie is 300."

If this happens, back away slowly. Your new friend probably kills cats for fun. Worse -- your new friend may be George W. Bush. Director Zack Snyder's new dramatization of the epic Spartan stand at Thermopylae will probably go down real well at the White House, and wherever disturbed young people massacre hundreds in violent video games. Others should exercise discretion.

This is a historical epic, but its real history is not so much ancient Greek as recent comic book. 300 is another film taken from the work of graphic novel auteur Frank Miller, following very much in the CGI tradition of last year's Miller-inspired Sin City. Nothing in 300 is natural -- not a ray of honest sunlight falls on a single frame of the movie. Like Sin City and the execrable Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, 300 was filmed entirely in front of blue screens and subsequently built around the actors digitally.

Pretty dumb

It's certainly better than Sky Captain, visually at least. 300 has an undeniable beauty, a burnished look intended to evoke the mythic. Think of the dream scenes in Gladiator and imagine a whole movie of that. Don't imagine much else, because you'll be disappointed.

Someday, somebody is going to make one of these comic book movies that isn't quite so depressingly comic book. Not this time. 300 is an adolescent wet dream to its very core, a homoerotic paean to half-naked Greeks and their bloody, thrusting swords. And to make all the Chippendales-style posing more palatable for the young straight male target audience, there's a little bit of rough doggie-style hetero sex too.

The plot -- don't blink now -- is this: 300 brave Spartans, led by the heroic Leonidas (Gerard Butler), guard a pass against the Persian hordes commanded by King Xerxes (Rodrigo Santoro). There's a small bit of politics thrown in, and the aforementioned boinking (featuring Lena Headey as Queen Gorgo). But it's mostly just the glorious, sexual thrill of slow-motion violence and orgasmic geysers of spurting blood. Really. Such unabashed tributes to slaughter are usually delivered with a wink in slasher films, but 300 does not know how to wink. It is deadly serious in the way that so often provokes giggles.

Certain parallels

There's virtually no development of the Persian side, almost no real sense of who they are and why they are so scary -- except that there's a whole lot of them, and their leader Xerxes is seven feet tall, like Darth Vader and with pretty much the same voice. When it finally arrives, the big sacrificial climax doesn't even make a lot of sense. It's just heroic.

Regardless, 300 will likely be a masturbatory experience for the Ann Coulter crowd. Cruel, militaristic Sparta is the ideal; weak, artsy Athens is mocked, particularly in a scene where Athenian soldiers are revealed to be potters, sculptors, poets. Brave men who leave what they love to defend their country? Bah! Weaklings, according to this flick. As a tribute to a particular world view, 300 could play on a double bill with Leni Riefenstahl's Triumph of the Will.

And no doubt it will be screened at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue. President Bush will certainly relish a film in which King Leonidas tries, and fails, to get authorization from Sparta's governing council for an attack against the forces of Persia, a.k.a. modern-day Iran. Leonidas goes ahead anyway. History calls him a hero. So much for congressional funding.

There's even evidence that the film consciously grasps at this clash-of-civilizations message. "Today we will rid the world of mysticism and tyranny," shouts a Greek soldier, leading a charge against the Persians moments after we have seen an image of dead Spartans in Christ-like poses.

Most of the bloodthirsty teens in the audience won't care about that stuff, of course. But Dick Cheney will cream himself. I guess Dick can use a little diversion. He's had a rough year.
http://www.alternet.org/movies/49029/

[sir_captain]

201. And here's a positive review in the SF Chronicle

well known for its freeper positions :eyes:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/03/09/DDGQVOH7NC1.DTL

As a note, it violates the DU rules (and copyright law) to post entire articles like you did here.

You're more than entitled to your opinion, but you'd find less vitriol directed at you if you showed the smallest shred of respect for the opinion of others.

[nadinbrzezinski]

210. key words Left Wing

aka partisan glass fully on

And that critique even said that the ending did not make sense

What that 300 Spartans died? They did

What that the Greeks met the Persians later on en-force? They did

It shows the amazing denial of history, even the most basic facts

Xerxes existed

Leonidas existed

The battle was fought

On edit, it's akin to seeing titanic and wondering why the ship sinks in the end

[DrunkenMaster]

205. Is This A Joke????

"300" is the most offensive movie you've ever seen? How many movies have you actually watched?

Perhaps you should have read a review or two before you plopped down your dollars, eh?

[Alenne]

206. Saw it in IMAX

I loved it. It was just a movie for me.

[Solo_in_MD]

211. Daughter saw it in IMAX tonight and called to tell me about it

Her expectations were well set and she loved the spectacle and style. She well understood the historical liberties that were taken.

[lies and propaganda]

214. Oh, so you never saw United 93 or the rest of the 911 shit films?

Youre reading just a bit toooooooooooooooooooooooo much into a movie about wtf happened in a time period not a damn one of us was in.

Were so goddamned overly sensitive on DU.Crying about movies that bother us, that we CHOSE to see.

I dont know about you, but I think theres a fuck lot more we need to be acting upon that bitching about a goddamned movie.


This board has been 300 and Code Pink crying for days, its no wonder everyone thinks were pussies.

[lies and propaganda]

215. AND to compare a fellow DUer who may have liked this film

to Ann Coulter is so obvious why this board is the way it is.

Were no different then our shitty prez if we adopt the with us or against us dumbfuck mentality.

Sorry if im being overly bitchy but Jesus, it was a movie. Pretty fucking accurate and goddamned beautiful, not some right wing conspiracy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

217. I'll take exception to the accurate ;-)

even if ironically the things that bothered her were.

But beatiful, you got it. It was very well done, and the camera work was incredible

It was an ADULT movie... not triple X, but adult, nothign to take a kid to

(And yes I could take all day pointing some of the historical problems, but... they were the same made in the movie that inpired this one)