I am leaning towards supporting Hillary Rodham Clinton for president because:

[Herman Munster]

I want a winner. I want someone not afraid to get into the mud.

Hillary has star power and the infrastructure to raise money dollar for dollar against any republican candidate.

She has the greatest political mind of our generation as her personal political advisor and confidante.

She will not get swiftboated. She will fight blow for blow with the republicans and has 15 years of cold hard experience in the trenches against these fuckers.

She knows how they think. She knows their vulnerabilities. She will have an army of the most effective operatives in politics at her disposal while she stays on message and runs a positive campaign. She's going to use the republican playbook against them and this is why they fear her so. They know she is better at the dirty tricks than they are and they FEAR her. FEAR.

She will have Bill Clinton as her attack dog when needed. Don't ever underestimate this man's skills to rev up the base. He will be used strategically so not to overshadow his wife but when he is used he will be like a nuclear bomb to the republican's defenses. He will obliterate everything in sight and the fallout will cause much collateral damage.

The woman is in it to win. All out. Go for broke. She gave up her political career for Bill Clinton, she put up with his philandering ways, she was the primary breadwinner while Bill made $35,000 a year as governor. Now it's her turn.

People bashing her for having a 45% disapproval rating is not being intellectually honest. No republican will ever get less than 45% in a general election. These are the brainwashed masses. The lowest of the low. They are beyond redemption. If these people can turn a Kerry into a traitor after being a war hero and have 51% of people believe it, they will turn Obama into a Manchurian candidate with no experience and a muslim lineage that they will call a danger to the republic.

Any democrat that goes through the republican attack machine will have negatives at least as high as Hillary. In all the polls I've seen, both Kerry and Gore have much negative ratings than Hillary with much less support and they haven't experienced a FRACTION of the vile invective this poor woman has faced.

Republicans have called her a fucking MURDERER for god's sake that ordered the hit of her so-called lover Vince Foster after he was supposedly threatening to expose the Clinton's Whitewater deals. Nothing they have lobbed at Kerry or Gore even approaches a fraction of this rhetoric.

AND THE WOMAN STILL HAS A 55% approval rating.

Look, Hillary doesn't give a fuck if DU'ers hate her and her politics. I mean come the fuck on, nobody can say DU represents mainstream democrats.

Hillary knows elections are won in the 10% of the mushy middle and she's been positioning herself accordingly to WIN the general election.

If you want ideological pure candidates, get a fucking dog because one doesn't exist in politics. Politics is a bloodsport. Only the strong survive. And I would never bet against a Clinton.

NEVER.

[WI_DEM]

1. I was wondering who you supported, since the only posts on '08 I've seen

by you have been blasting Barack Obama. I'm glad you found a candidate you can support and write positively about.

[bullimiami]

2. any reason is fine. thats what the primaries are for.

i wont support her in the primary.
i liked dean last time, im undecided at this point otherwise.

[Pharaoh]

3. Some might call you a hillary plant

but I won't :party:

[helderheid]

55. snicker

[cynatnite]

4. I don't know if she'll win, but she is a hell of a fighter...

I won't underestimate her at all. You've laid out exactly why I like her. She's tough and she's smart. She knows what she has to do and has done it in a very calculating way and thinking ten steps ahead with every step she takes forward.

I don't have a problem with what she's doing at all. As I said in another thread...my gut tells me we'll see a Clinton/Obama ticket. I could be wrong as I sometimes am about many things.

But NO ONE should underestimate this woman.

Well said! :thumbsup:

[lancdem]

5. You make some excellent points

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

6. That's your opinion

Where are you from? I've lived in Arkansas since '91, and most of my friends here have lived here a lot longer than me. They knew Bill and Hillary--this is a small state, and easy to get to know anyone who has been in politics for any length of time--and Bill and Hillary were here for quite a long time.

They both learned from their mistakes, from their first loss in the Congressional race (no Dem has won this seat since the '60s) and then their second loss, this time after having served a term as governor. They both know how to fight, and they both know what they want.

That being said, I find that most folks I know (and they include progressives, regular Dems, Libertarians and Republicans)respect Hillary but they don't like her. Some mistrust her because they feel she is not open minded to new ideas, but rather sticks to her own agenda. The Dems would vote for her, but the ones I know are supporting other candidates: Clark, Edwards, and Kucinich. The Libertarians and Republicans (who, btw, voted Dem in this last election) would not vote for her.

Just thought you might like to get a very small voter picture from a state where Hillary lived for a long time.

[John Gauger]

25. I know a woman that is lifelong GOP

My mom's best friend. She says she will vote for Hillary if Hillary credibly promises to end the war. 06 was the first time she ever voted Dem and she voted Dem for all four seats on the ballot. I agreed. I will vote for Hillary if she credibly promises to end the war. Even people that hate her are willing to vote for her if she agrees to end the war.

[GenDem]

40. Hillary's biggest fan at our county HQ's this past election

was none other than a registered republican. She had Hillary yard signs all over her yard along side republican candidates for other local races. she even did some poll watching for Hillary during the primary. Don't underestimate the women's vote.

I agree regarding the war. She had a listening tour via internet that I plugged into tonight. People could ask her real time questions and she was answering them. The first question she took was on the war, and her vote. She is taking a stronger stand each time I hear her.

[Clark2008]

45. That's funny.

Maybe Republican women will secretly vote for her whilst Dem women won't. LOL!

[Faryn Balyncd]

48. MIllions of normally GOP-voting independents and even conservative Republicans....

Your Mom's friend is representative of millions of normally GOP-voting independents and even conservative Republicans.... who crossed over and voted Democratic in 2006, throwing out the GOP, because they want the WAR ENDED, and they are repulsed by a GOP that now worships the "unitary executive", has trashed the constitution, continues its assault on civil liberties, and has confused genuine free enterprise with corporate welfare.

These swing voters - including independents, moderates, libertarians, and thoughtful historic conservatives - voted Democratic because they were convinced that the GOP had betrayed American values ----

They DID NOT vote Democratic so they could get another pseudo-centrist, war-accomidating, fence-straddling, corporatist (a description that too often describes Hillary Clinton's carefully considered positions).

The DLC-peddled idea that the way to get swing voters is by refusing to confront unambiguously the abuses of the GOP, and nominate a psedo-centrist in the mold of Hillary Clinton is a myth.

[John Gauger]

54. Yeah.

That's what I'm worried about. I might end up going with Hillary as a clothespin vote, but only if she takes a clear stance against the war. I don't want to have to put up with all of that crap.

[Annces]

7. Will be interesting to see her really replying to

the mud slingers, as opposed to how Kerry handled things.

[creeksneakers2]

12. The latest slime

is a RW hit job that says Hillary launched a covert attack against Obama. The RW are actually the ones launched the attack, which said Obama went to a Madrassa. The whole smear on both Hillary and Obama came from Insight Magazine, a Moon publication.

Here's the Clinton team's response:

"It's an obvious right-wing hit job by a Moonie publication that was designed to attack Senator Clinton and Senator Obama at the same time,"

That's the kind of response I like!

[Annces]

23. Yes - lightning response

Shows spirit.

[Island Blue]

33. Well, Republicans have been blaming her husband

for the events that occured on 9/11 ever since it happened, and he just got around to responding to their mud slinging last year. Maybe Hillary will do a better job than Bill in that department. :shrug:

[saltpoint]

Vote for her if you want to.

I'm not on board.

[Pierre.Suave]

8. Two Words

Bill Richardson



thats all.

[Herman Munster]

11. I'm not entirely sold on Hillary yet that's why I said leaning

But from what I've seen of Richardson, I really like his experience. I don't know if he's a fighter, but I can definitely see getting behind him. It's between those two for me for now.

I felt I had to defend her when I saw 90% of threads here trashing her like Rush and Hannity do. It's blatantly unfair and screw me for trying to defend an underdog. That's why I'm a democrat. I don't like seeing people being unfairly abused.

[saracat]

38. Two words on Richradson"Woman trouble".

[Herman Munster]

39. i'll need more than innuendo

you have any proof?

[saracat]

51. Check the Washington post.I think this weekend.

It was posted here on DU. I was amazed at how quick the MSM leapt on it.The post concentated on "sexist" remarks but rumour has it that Richradson "fools around" and has a Cisneros type situation.This is what I hear from friends in NM. I like Richardson but I was never comfortable when he revealed he was the "go between" and arranged to get Monica Lewinsky jobs at the UN to pacify her.

[Pierre.Suave]

52. yeah,

no shit.

come with proof with an accusation like that.

[Life Long Dem]

9. Your looking at Kerry today. Kerry was in a similar situation in 2004 as Hilliary is now.

[illinoisprogressive]

10. She won't get the nomination. But, you have the right to support whoever you want.

You choose whoever you want and you have the right to do so.
I really do not see her winning but, you go with whoever you agree with and feel comfortable with.
You have that right and good luck

[SaveElmer]

13. Boooyaaaa....

Way to lay it on the line...I like it...

I have no doubt Hillary will be the toughest competitor in the race...on either side...

[Bluebear]

14. Is this an anti-Obama vote? You spend a LOT of time discussing him.

PS Not an Obama bandwagoneer here.

[Herman Munster]

20. f like Obama, I really do

I think in 10 years after more senate experience or maybe a term as governor or maybe time as VP he'll be a fine president.

We also must let nature take its course with the most racists of the greatest generation continuing to die off.....

Not his time yet. Too soon. But his running now is probably good for his long term development as a candidate. He's certainly building a great foundation for the future.

[ktlyon]

15. You make some very good points

Thanks

[Grandrose]

16. I So Totally Agree With Everything You Said!

I especially like her taking on that "vast right-ring conspiracy".

I have not decided which candidate, that's what primaries are for, but
I am so excited about the pay back that only the Clintons are about to
serve up.

Bring it on. :popcorn:

[Justyce]

17. Very good points -- I do think that

she would stand a better chance at winning the presidency than Obama if one of them were to win the nomination, mainly because of her experience & who she brings along with her...

[snowbear]

18. Why not wait for the debates and see who knocks your socks off?

In the Democratic primary, it's often the early frontrunner who winds up fizzling out with the party.. Who's to say that won't happen again?

I can't wait to see the first debate to see which one really knocks it outta the park!!

I'll support whoever our ultimate nominee is ... but we still have a long time before we make that determination ~

[GenDem]

36. I watched her debate....

she can debate.

[k_jerome]

19. DLC'er! DINO! Gargyle! Psychic! nt.

[aquart]

21. So far as I'm concerned, mainstream is ME.

She still hasn't sold me. But then, except for Gore, none of them have.

[upi402]

22. Lily dies Herman looses the plot

;)

[Alamom]

24. I'm with you and agree with all points. n/t

[Oleladylib]

27. I would put a bet on Gore, Kerry and Edwards are done.

[Oleladylib]

26. I am on board and very excited!

[Adenoid_Hynkel]

28. issues?

all this pro-hillary stuff is either based on horserace b.s. or cult of personality

[mdmc]

29. All aboard!...

She can win

[Straight Shooter]

30. How Hillary Clinton turned herself into the consummate Washington player (by Joshua Green)

Very well-written article on Ms. Clinton in the respected Atlantic Monthly. It certainly gave me a different perspective on Ms. Clinton.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200611/green-hillary

I want to do my best to view every candidate as objectively as possible. At the end, whoever wins the primary gets my vote. I'm voting for my country, which needs a Democratic president, not for my sense of personal satisfaction at seeing my candidate of choice win.

[walldude]

31. So let me get this straight

"Look, Hillary doesn't give a fuck if DU'ers hate her and her politics." And I'm supposed to support this person? The one who doesn't give a fuck about me?

[Herman Munster]

32. I'm not asking you to support her

I'm just telling it like it is. The people who post threads praising Hugo Chavez who calls Iran's
Ahmadinejad "his brother" are NOT MAINSTREAM DEMOCRATS.

[walldude]

35. Yeah, we for sure agree on that one...

Sometimes it's tough to make people understand that we are the far left everyone keeps talkin about. Of course anything to the right of Karl Rove is considered far left these days... :toast:

[cally]

34. I admire much about Sen. Clinton

I do think she will be a formidable candidate, I'm proud a woman has a chance to become President, I think she's very smart, and I do think she gets the global warming crisis. I find her lack of standing up to * on the Iraq war appalling and I can't support her. I think she was trying to be show strength and went against her own instincts. I'm still waiting to find my candidate but I'm leaning towards Edwards.

[Democrats_win]

37. Love Hillary, but we can't go back to the 90s. Move toward economic justice.

The 90s showed how life could be for businesses and they thanked Dems by impeaching Clinton and electiong Moron-boy. Businesses no longer work for America; so it's time for America to work for the American people first, for a change!!!

[Flabbergasted]

41. And then we'll give Jeb the job and then Chelsea should be about old enough

Hell yeah it sounds great to let two families control the presidency for 22 plus years.

Hell, lets just revise the constitution and let the Bush's and Clintons's take turns.


Does this really sound good for a democracy?????

Have we really sunk this low?

[GenDem]

42. I agree with your post

She said it herself -- she's in it to win.

[unblock]

43. you forgot something important: big dog on the campaign trail!

personally, i think it's way too early to commit on a nominee, but i do think we must consider this carefully.

because there's an EXCELLENT chance that whoever the democratic nominee is, will be president starting january 20, 2009!

[farmbo]

44. The poison pill: Hillary's outsourcing position (Hint: she loves it!)

The marvelous lesson of the 2006 races is that Democratic voters have tired of these Tom Friedmanesque "free trader" types who view wholesale US manufacturing job losses as "inevitable" because...the world is flat... or... (insert the lame platitude of your choice.) See eg: Sherrod Brown, Jim Webb, Jon Tester...etc etc.

Meanwhile, here's what Hillary told the new billionaires of India's upper caste in 2005 when she didn't think anyone was listening:

shttp://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html

Hillary clears outsourcing air
<snip>Hillary Clinton made it apparent where she stood on outsourcing during her India visit, in an attempt perhaps to clear the Indian misgivings received during the Kerry campaign. "There is no way to legislate against reality. Outsourcing will continue," she told an audience of Indian big-wigs. She pointed out that there were 3 billion people who feel left behind and are trying to attack the modern world in the hope of turning the clock back on globalization. "It is not far-fetched to imagine ... if the Indian miracle would be the one of choice of those who feel left behind," said Hillary.

Hillary has been at the forefront in defending free trade and outsourcing. During the height of the anti-outsourcing backlash in the US last year, she faced considerable flak for defending Indian software giant Tata Consultancy Services (TCS) for opening a center in Buffalo, New York. "We are not against all outsourcing; we are not in favor of putting up fences," Hillary said firmly, despite inevitably invoking the ire of the anti-free trade brigade.

In 2003, US merchandise exports to India was $5 billion, while India exports to the US was $13.8 billion. <snip>

Never mind your "Indian miracle", Hillary. Why not support an "Ohio miracle" or a "United States of America miracle" instead.

Hillary cannot win the Democratic primary, or for that matter, the general election, unless she jettisons her DLC- inspired support for outsourcing and "free trade" (sic)-- immediately and convincingly.

[HughBeaumont]

49. The main reason I won't vote for her.

Well, that and the IWR vote and the fact that she wasn't sorry that she did it as late as 2005. She still isn't proposing to end the war completely.

Offshoring is too strong an issue for me. Having experienced it, personally talked to people who've had to train their foreign replacements for severance, seen career fields devalued and watch towns die because of it . .. I can't in all consciousness vote for someone who's even less of an economic progressive than her husband was. I can't in all honesty support someone who's so non-feeling and blase about someone's livelihood getting destroyed and everything they worked so hard to acheive get flushed down the shitter like it's no big deal. I can't vote for someone who supports a very corporate and Republican stance in cold blood. Offshoring is long on theory and short on universal result, as it only benefits the capital, not the labor. You need to work on the problems in your own country before lifting someone else's.

There's a few more articles online that I've linked to in the past highlighting her stance on unabashed free trade. It makes me laugh when people say she's a pro-labor candidate when she makes speeches such as this. I kind of wonder if voting down CAFTA and Yes to Byron Dorgan's amendment (to repeal tax breaks to companies that send US jobs offshore . . . failed, BTW) in 2005 was a result of the worker backlash she no doubt received for this speech. I mean, she DID vote for the first Bankruptcy bill, FOR several free trade agreements and was one of the contributors of NAFTA.

More "whatever way the wind blows". Change the tune when it's opportune.

[roamer65]

46. ...because I want another failed attempt at national healthcare...

and to lose the Congress in 2010, like 1994. I've had enough of the Bushes and the Clintons. Enough of the political dynasties.

[kikiek]

47. Great post! I am with you. That is why the right is so worried about her! They know this is true.

[mustang]

50. I will support Hillary

She's been a great Senator. She has many causes that I believe in. She's a child advocate. She's smart and articulate. When she testified about health care as First Lady, she was informed, articulate, tough, and not easily rattled. She did her homework.

I've read many articles about her as Senator. Many people initially were very suspicious of her. But she traveled around the state, listened to people, heard their issues, and responded. In the Senate, she started to earn the respect of Republican Senators that wouldn't even speak to her, they hated her that much. But then she showed them she was informed, listened, knew the issues, and she was the one that reached out to propose a lot of bipartisan legislation. She gained their respect. Many of those same Senators say they have been pleasantly surprised by her because they had "heard" so many negative things about her.

Hillary's been attacked for years, that won't change. But she knows how to defend herself. She's tough. She's won't let her enemies attack without a response. She can debate with anyone. She would work with Congress. She would make a very impressive leader on the world stage. This is an incredible historic time. A First Lady, now Presidential Candidate! No matter how it ends, we are witnessing history.

Thanks for the great post.

[never cry wolf]

53. She can't win... period

I'll vote for her if she's the Dem candidate but OMG, she was savaged with swiftboat lies as first lady... All of that crap and more will be dredged up and lied about all over again, in triplicate..

Not her fault but she is polarizing and I wish she had stayed out of the race. My dear mom, uninformed as she is, has a cat toy she named Hillary so she can see the cat savage it....

[Balbus]

56. The MSM agrees with you...

but I don't listen to them.

[GeorgeGist]

57. Now it's her turn...

to collect her reward for selling out to the corporatists. It's your blood sport.