Did anyone just see the Haditha story with that marine on 60 mins.

[boston bean]

How awful,I am sick to my stomach.

Damn GWB, I can't stand it.

[hlthe2b]

1. yes... I could scarcely believe this guy's non-repentant attitude..

If we wanted to create unthinking unquestioning killing machines, we clearly have done so...

Will the world ever forgive us?

[boston bean]

2. That is what struck me the most. What was created in him.

Looking at his eyes there was nothing there. I think he felt something, but he could only justify his actions or I think he would have to kill himself.

The horror.

[hlthe2b]

4. what gives me even more pause... (if possible)

is knowing how orgasmic some RW freeper types will get watching that--indeed that we have come so far down that trail, that RW fundy (supposed Christians) justify torture, that a significant minority of predominantly RW Americans will accept what this marine says as fact, that he was doing what he was trained to do, per policy...

Sends chills down my spine and makes me absolutely nauseous.

[boston bean]

7. very true. it is grotesque. It was done in America's name. It is not justifiable. nt

[SharonAnn]

19. I didn't interpret it that way. I thought he looked lost and shut off from his feelings.

I think he's emotionally unable to deal with it without shutting it out and keeping it at a distance.

Also, I believe him when he says that he and the others did what they were trained to do and that they acted on what they believed to be the truth.

The awful shame of this is that we, the citizens of the United States, participate in the shame and guilt of this. Even those of us who fought against the war at the beginning and continue to do so.

We created this situation, we trained these soldiers, and we are part of this, even though we didn't and don't want any part of it.

I did not see him as cold and uncaring, I saw him as lost and emotionally numb. Perhaps because that's what happened to me twice when I had to deal with something more horrible than I'd ever imagined. I still go into that mode when I relive those situations. It's the only way we can survive some things. It doesn't mean cold, heartless, uncaring. It means lost, scared, numb, and unable to react.

[hlthe2b]

30. Perhaps...

only a psychiatrist is likely to judge the truth...

There have been reports that our troops have not even been trained in the Geneva Conventions, so who the hell knows what they ARE being told is acceptable. However, the interview with the other Marine, who had faced similar without murdering civilians and who totally refuted any notion that this was expected sop... did seem to counter...Plus, we have all seen Freeper posts and RW assholes publically justifying torture (and worse) against Muslims...


Nonetheless, I DO hold the administration responsible. They should all be rotting away in the Hague...

[Blue_In_AK]

34. I agree...

Maybe I should, but I felt no sympathy for him, only disgust. I know it's all **'s fault, that this young man wouldn't have been over there to commit this massacre if it weren't for the occupation, but I wonder if something wasn't missing in this kid's psyche from the get-go. It's hard to tell, but I saw no real repentance there.

[shrdlu]

3. He and * are caught in the same situation...

They cannot acknowledge the horror of their actions.

[A HERETIC I AM]

5. I saw it. I had to turn it off. But not for the same reasons you didn't like it.

Yeah, I saw it. I'm surprised his lawyer let him go as far as he did with the interview.

I switched away because i found it difficult to listen to the tone of the interviewer.

The president has sent the decent men and women of the US Armed Forces into a meat grinder and then we wonder why some of them come out all bloody, with unsightly bits stuck to them and a curious demeanor regarding those ugly bits.

[graywarrior]

6. This might be worth checking out.

http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/trailer.html?pop=y&mtype=win&quality=high&url=httpQ3AQ2FQ2Fwww.totaleclips.comQ2FPlayerQ2FBounce.aspxQ3FeclipidQ3De28971Q26ampQ3BbitrateidQ3D10Q26ampQ3BvendoridQ3D225&title=The

[boston bean]

9. is that movie in the theatres right now? and what is the name of it.

and yes I watched the trailer, but couldn't figure it out.

:banghead:

[graywarrior]

10. Go here. This should help.

http://thegroundtruth.net/

[durrrty libby]

8. One of our great shames, is that we take decent young boys and

turn them into killing machines

I learned this from the many Nam vets I've taken care of over the years ....and their families

Then...as a society, we live with the consequences


Now we repeat the horror

[Elwood P Dowd]

13. That's what the military does to you.

When I was drafted during 'Nam, I would guess over half my basic training unit were nothing more than robots after 8 weeks.

[durrrty libby]

23. Yes ....I hope you healed. So many do not

[ellenfl]

37. that was the point. they train you to be robots. eom

[theoldman]

11. You will notice that he kept repeating that he did what he was

trained to do. He had become a robot on the battlefield and in the interview.

[dysfunctional press]

29. i'd be willing to bet that his lawyers are the reason for that...

just keep saying that you did what you were trained to do- by doing so you switch the blame.

but they had another marine on during the 60mins. piece who told a totally different story on the procedures he had used to "clear" over 50 houses in iraq...maybe he received different training...? :sarcasm:

[IcyPeas]

33. He said a couple of times: "We 'prepped' the room....

by throwing a grenade into it......"
...the language of the military...
What is the meaning of "prepped"?

"Prep" = Blow to pieces all the Iraqis (collateral damage) in the room before entering.......

sheeesh - these guys are so brainwashed by military-speak -

[WinkyDink]

12. I saw him speak on another show. I think his legal goose is cooked.

[hlthe2b]

18. Nuremberg defense all over again...

Didn't work then and if sanity prevails, won't now. But, yes, he is fodder to the US killing machine. Yet, some marines and troops maintain their values and don't go along with indiscriminate killing. :shrug:

[Grandrose]

14. It is all so sad and disgusting.

I feel deep, deep sorrow and anger about this horrible war....it must end.
:cry:

[KharmaTrain]

15. The "Fog Of War"

This is one of the more eerie parallels with Vietnam. I'd heard many a story of Marine and Green Berets who were on S & D missions where they'd enter a village, sniper fire would break out and then so would all hell. The answer is almost the same..."they all look alike" or they could never see the enemy, thus its shoot first and ask later. As shocked as I was to hear that story, it sounded familiar to those I heard from Vietnam vets and what makes war a living hell.

What will be our "harvest" from this gluttony of murder will be a generation of veterans who are already mentally scared from the combination of their military training (that breaks down human emotions) and their own combat experiences that will play in their heads night in and hight out for the rest of their lives. Sadly, some of these guys will come home and not know how to turn off that "hate" and "kill" switch and will end up with major problems readjusting to life stateside. And seeing how this regime has "helped" our veterans, you know they're not getting much help for PTSD or other mental illnesses that come from seeing non-stop death and destruction for 6 or 8 months at a time.

I have no pity for this soldier...he freaked and now is trying to justify the unjustifiable. His only defense is getting on TV like this and hoping there's some mercy or compassion. Remember, his court martial will not be in a civil court, but in front of military types who may be swayed by this defense, but I think with all the political fall-out this has created, a scapegoat is needed and this soldier is it. He'll be residing in Levenworth while the one who assigned him as "squad leader" and those who pushed the "shoot first, ask questions later" and "all A-rabs look alike" got promoted. Sickening.

[Disturbed]

16. Didn't these Marines go from house to house and

murder anyone that was in sight? They murdered men, women and children. It was rage. How long should their Prison sentence be?

[Auntie Bush]

17. LIFE! n/t

[KharmaTrain]

20. Burning Down Huts...

For many years I worked with a Marine who served in the Mekong Delta. For the first few years we were acquainted he would rarely talk about his military experience, then one night after a few drinks he opened up about some of the missions he went on...and, sadly, yes, there were missions in Nam that went house to house...setting fire to huts with people inside or "if it ran it was VC" and shooting first. It's a decision and place I'm grateful I never was placed in as this is a kill or be killed surreal existance they live in and one's sense of "what is right" is easily warped.

Yes, it was rage...what do you think war is? Also, it's not as though there weren't people shooting at those Marines in Haditha. The pressures of this nutcracker invasion along with the de-humanizing nature of the military sadly made this and other massacres happen...these dudes are pawns in a game played by higher ups who hide behind a chain of command and never have to be accountable for what others do. This sad sack is "screwn"...he did what he was trained to do...kill, but he did it "too good"...and was unlucky enough to get caught. While I see him doing time in Levenworth or wheerver the Marines lock theirs away, I don't see the sentence ever being justified for the number of people killed, how they were killed...and again, the culture that created that insanity.

Peace...

[Southsideirish]

21. Do the Marine's de-humanize people or are they not human to begin with?

By "human" I mean someone who is a real person, with normal emotions, feelings and the like.

[durrrty libby]

24. They are human children. They get changed. It must stop

[in_cog_ni_to]

22. I saw it.

The guy is mentally ill. How could he possibly say he would do the same thing if in the same situation after learning he MURDERED innocent women and children?? His eyes were so dark....and empty. He came across as COLD, a very cold.:( Not once did I see a tear or compassion or GUILT.

I am wondering why the hell he did that interview? What was the point? He made himself look like a cold-blooded murderer.

[proud patriot]

25. West Coast , watching now

:hi:

[qanda]

26. I think there was something wrong with him

His eyes looked empty

[RestoreGore]

27. Yes, and all I could think was this is what we do to our children...

Turn them into unrepentent cold blooded killers. How absolutely tragic and sickening.

[genie_weenie]

28. This is War, glorious War.

America never fought an UnJust War...

The Federal Government's wants and needs are My wants and needs...

I am America, America is me...

[Pastiche423]

31. Spine chilling

No remorse shown. No guilt shown. Extremely stupid move on the part of his lawyers.

It was the kid's 1st "combat". I can't imagine how many human beings would be dead if he hadn't been taken into custody.

What happens in training that takes away the soul?

[riverdeep]

32. Saw it,

and kept thinking, there WILL be payback for these acts. How many of us, if we were one of those surviving kids, would not vow revenge. And when it happens, we will again act surprised.

The intelligence reports that came out a few months ago confirmed that we are creating more terrorists than thwarting.

[Vinca]

35. When they began the piece, I got the impression the guy was somehow

going to relate a story that would change opinions of him. It was quite the contrary. I've never heard anything as disturbing as this story. They didn't even bother to look before they started rolling their grenades in and shooting. It bothered me, too, when they showed the guy at home with his own kids. I'm sorry . . . he needs to go to prison for a very long time.

[Tsiyu]

36. What bothered me most

was the implication that one American Marine's life is infinitely more important than a dozen Iraqi lives.

Who decided this?

A Marine fights because that is his job. Death is one risk of that job.

A civilian - whether Iraqi or American or Colombian or British - does not sign up for combat and should not be expected to accept sudden death just by virtue of being in her or his own home.

The Marine is implying that these two groups of people are on a level playing field, as if the Iraqi agreed to have his nation invaded in the same way the Marine agreed to enter combat and face enemy fire.

He may emotionally place his military comrades on a pedestal while not batting an eyelash over destroying an entire family he does not know, but then he cannot call himself a professional Marine.

He has lost his training and his reason. He no longer has a functioning conscience.

Unless we really do live in a world where some people are worth more than others, and where oil is worth more than any.


:(

[sanskritwarrior]

38. You know I said it before and I'll say it again

and I'll let the DUers judge me accordingly.

The life of one of my men is worth more than any number of Iraqis. That doesn't mean we blast anyone we see like this prick did. It doesn't mean we go on a killing spree either. This man deserves to pay for his actions and pay for the rest of his life.

However I will argue with any takers that in combat you will feel that your men matter more than anyone who is not in your group........I will never apologize for some of the things I have done in Iraq because it brought my guys home. So think what you want, I did right by my men and that is all that matters.......