Teacher, 21, accused of sex with student, 14

[Herman Munster]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/jeffersoncounty/story/F30F9B996D3C71C4862572A1000DB19C?OpenDocument



HILLSBORO — A 21-year-old substitute teacher from the Dunklin School District was charged Friday with having sex with a 14-year-old male student, whom she knew for years as a friend of her brother.

The Jefferson County prosecuting attorney charged Teresa Engelbach of Pevely with three counts of statutory rape and one count of statutory sodomy following an investigation by the Jefferson County sheriff's office.

According to authorities, the investigation began Tuesday after the eighth-grade student reported the incidents to a teacher at Senn-Thomas Middle School in Herculaneum. The teacher then told school administrators, who called police.

The incidents occurred between Feb. 1 and March 13 in several different areas of the county and did not involve any other students, police said.

[BlooInBloo]

1. There's another one about a teacher getting 6 month sentence for...

... giving a 17 year old a blowjob.

Acck - teenage boys under attack by Close Encounters Of The Hottie Kind!

:rofl:

Ok, seriously - even by my lights, 14 is pushing things.

On the other hand, 4 counts? Good job kid! :rofl: (I know, I know.)


EDIT: Link to the one I mentioned in the subject: http://www.katu.com/news/local/6465082.html

[MonkeyFunk]

37. yes

four counts! but over the span of 6 minutes.

[bbernardini]

2. Wait a minute...DU beat Fark to a teacher/student sex story?

I don't believe it.

[originalpckelly]

3. What the hell does someone hot like that need with a 14 year old boy?

:shrug:

There's something wrong there. I might understand if their ages were closer, but this is a little bit too much. That's a seven year difference.

[Bucky]

13. It's probably a control thing. This put her in control of a sexual situation

Power is certainly why guys go for younger women. Look at Trump's increasing age difference with his spouses for an example of what I mean by "control". But who knows, maybe this was a really mature 14 year old boy.

No wait, he ratted her out in a way to ensure she'd get legal trouble for her transgression. Scratch that. They're both idiots.

[slackmaster]

72. It's a 50% age difference

Or 33% depending on your POV.

Seven years doesn't mean much by the time you are in your mid-40s. At 21 its HUGE.

[NDP]

77. Not thinking straight. Given over to vile affections. Her mind is no longer her own.

[Orrex]

4. Prediction:

Matt Lauer will give her a cushy, comfy, one-on-one interview in a cozy, living-room-esque setting, allowing her a full compliment of wardrobe and makeup artists, and the discussion will spend much time on what, exactly, is the nature of an attractive woman's sexuality.

And this important, cutting-edge exposé will air immediately before or immediately after To Catch a Predator, with no comment from NBC as to why male and female sex offenders are treated differently by the network.

[LisaL]

7. It ain't just media. If 21 year old male was accused of doing this

to 14 year old student (female or male) would people be saying-good for the 14 year old (see post #1 on this thread).

[Orrex]

8. Jeez--I don't know about that

If it were discovered that a 21 year old teacher here in western PA had had sex (oral or otherwise) with a 14-year-old girl, the only question would be "can the police arrest him before the community lynches him?"

[upi402]

9. Yep, the justice system - isn't

Women doing this don't get held accountable in the same way that men do. And the court favors the female gender in family dissolution matters to.
And so it goes.

[Bucky]

15. Another theory: girls are conditioned to be quiet about this kind of abuse

I'm sure stuff like this happens all the time. I'm a teacher and I've never known of any colleague who crossed this line, and yet a couple of employees in the district where I teach (both men) have been arrested for indecency or statutory rape in the past couple of years. It just doesn't get on the Today Show.

That doesn't mean it doesn't happen more often; just that it's less reported, less sensationalized, and less likely to be exposed.

[Herman Munster]

17. I think you are right

I'm sure this happens a lot more than it is reported.

Boys mature differently than girls and I think most boys would be much less likely to report this sort of "crime" to authorities because they wouldn't see it as a "crime." They would be thankful any hot girl wanted to give him some action.

[TahitiNut]

50. What gets media attention? "Dog bites man" or "Man bites dog"??

If anything, it's the underage male students that keep quiet more often than the underage female students. Why? It's our "cultural mythology" that the male is responsible for initiating an relationship of any kind with a female - except on Sadie Howkins' Day, of course. In our transactional memetics, the transitive "get a little" seems to favor the "getter" above the "gettee" - not to mention dehumanize and corrupt sexual relations.

Now, it could be argued that the 'average' emotional damage to an underage female is greater than to an underage male, but I'm personally not inclined to engage in such social calculus. (The 'average' is a statistical myth - an analytical convenience not found in nature.) "Equal under the law" is a far higher precept than arguing the gender of angels on the head of a pin. (Indeed, angels have no gender.)

[BoneDaddy]

39. Wow I think it would be just the opposite.

Typically people are more likely to judge the male adult more severely than the female adult.

[NashVegas]

61. ... It Wouldn't Be News

That is, you'd read about it on page 2 of the local section.

[gatorboy]

16. I dunno. Matt seems to get off picking on teachers and beauty queens.

Did you see him interview that Tara Conner? Geez, he drilled her. You'd think she had invaded a country on false pretenses or something...

[Orrex]

34. Sure, but in a warm and cozy setting

Let's see the part where the cops detain the woman at gunpoint and tackle her to the ground. I mean, let's have a little equity in our on-camera treatment of suspected sex offenders!

[rpannier]

5. I will be interested to see how this plays out

Because if the situation had been reversed and the teacher had been male and the student female, there would have been calls to lock him away for 25 years (and tar-and-feather him)

[LisaL]

6. I don't understand what these young women are thinking.

Aren't there any men of their own age? I mean, it's a crime to have sex with underage boy, and people go in prison for this, yet you hear of these allegations so often lately.

[Bucky]

14. I'd bet good money booze or dope was involved.

It's the stupid-enhancer.

[NDP]

76. It's not about thinking. MILF porn has "taken them over." Spiritual warfare lol

[Ninja Jordan]

10. H-O-T

j/k

[ReverendDeuce]

18. She is a TOTALLY hot... WTF?

She's fantastic!

[NDP]

78. Shaggable, but not totally hot. Good enough

[southerncrone]

11. We have a truckload of messed up young people today, especially the girls!

Many young people today think sex is a game. A lot of them began having sex at an extremely young age & it was like playing. Too many had been exposed to sex too young by parents watching R & X rated films in front of them. Or having cable TV and not blocking inappropriate channels. Since many kids are home alone quite a bit, they just acted out what they saw.

We have a very screwed up society, folks.
Why do you think there are so many dunderheads that think Bush, et.al., can do no wrong.
They are not paying any attention. As long as their sports teams are winning, "Desperate Housewives" is still on, the mall is still open, & they can drive an SUV, they don't care WHAT their kids are doing.

We are living the fall-out of hedonistic materialism. Hang on for a rough ride!

[Djinn]

21. What fall out?

I've never imbued sex with the quasi-religious fervour that it seems many Americans do and frankly there was no "fall out" from the consensual sexual activity I engaged in as a teenager.

My parents were very concerned with what we were doing, had we been hurting anyone else or acting like little bigots we'd have been smacked upside the head, given all the shit we could have been doing, screwing around with our teenaged boyfriends was not causing them lost sleep.

I'm not sure why you're conflating consensual sexual activity with rampant materialism?

[southerncrone]

22. This is rape, not just teenage sexual activity.

This is not about 2 teenagers & their sexual experimentation, a natural occurrence;but a 21 yr. old woman should not be having sex w/a 14 yr old. She obviously thinks on some level this is OK. If you have paid attention to the news for the last few years, this is happening way too often. These young women are MESSED UP. Most of these women are extremely attractive, so they would not be lacking for adult attention. If it were a man raping a young girl, he would be lynched in many towns. These women need to be punished just as severely, but also need psychological help.

The point I am trying to make is we have a great number of kids, who are now young adults, who grew up exposed to sex in inappropriate ways at inappropriate ages. Many of them were heavily influenced by pornography when they were too young to understand what was going on. Therefore they do not have healthy attitudes toward sex.

The fact is many parents did not CARE what the kids were doing, as long as the parents had their material needs met. The parents focused on chasing material wealth at the expense of their children's healthy upbringing. The kids had access to lots of TV/Cable/Videos but no supervision.

[Lautremont]

82. One question:

"If it were a man raping a young girl, he would be lynched in many towns. These women need to be punished just as severely, but also need psychological help."

Do they get the psychological help before or after the lynching?

[sandnsea]

26. Oh for pete's sake

She was probably molested. Most adults who molest have been molested. It's always been that way.

You act as if YOUR generation was doing something different in the 60's. Nope. They were popping valium and drinking martinis, watching Rowan & Martin and putting Lenny Bruce or Redd Foxx on the hi-fi. And you can go back to the 50's or 40's or 30's or 20's or even 100 years ago and find the same thing. Parents had business and social lives, kids snuck books and pictures, and occasionally somebody went crazy.

[DuaneBidoux]

57. Honestly I believe that the further back you go the worse these things tended to be.

When sex was so hidden things like this never even were brought up. When women and children were seen as just a little less than human it was also easy to justify doing things to them (I put this in the same line as Jefferson's many children with his slave).

Although much abuse does happen today I still feel it is less common (at least in the U.S.) than it has ever been before. Being discovered and happening are far from being necessarily the same thing.

I have no data to support these beliefs, just a general opinion brought about by my own interpretation of history's trends.

[southerncrone]

66. The ready availability to porn & soft porn was not around then. Playboy was the raciest thing aroun

[sandnsea]

69. Playboy is still racier than most magazines today

Criminy. You remind me of so many people in their 70's, who spent their entire life pissing all over their kids and taking their grandkids away from their kids, without ever looking in the mirror and facing the fact that THEY raised those drug addicted kids in the first place. Why would they think they could do a good job with their grandkids when they screwed up their own kids so badly. Then turn around and blame society and not even see they've blamed everybody but themselves.

[Jonathan50]

35. I was a teenager in the 60s

And things were not all that different then.

I met my wife when she was 16 and she was no virgin then. We used to go to her house when her parents were both at work and smoke dope and then have sex.

FWIW, the last female teacher accused of sex with a boy that I saw was no hottie.

[treestar]

42. I think you're right in saying it has become a game

It's really just another sport these days. There isn't much special about it.

[raccoon]

46. I think so too. nt

[The Cleaner]

52. Amen to that.

:)

[ScreamingMeemie]

65. "especially the girls!" Really? I think self esteem issues and wanting

to be cared about are equal across the board.

[Odin2005]

68. Oh bullshit.

EVERY older generation complains about the supposed vices of the younger generation and blames it on society being screwed up.

Oh, and wasn't it the Baby Boomers who are yakking on about "Hedonistic Materialism" the ones who started the consumerist BS when they went from being hippies to being yuppies? :eyes:

[sandnsea]

71. Don't assume that's a boomer

There are plenty of 70+ on this board and that post sounds suspiciously like the Korean War generation to me. There are always some self-righteous asswits in every generation, no doubt, but I think younger kids blame boomers for a lot of things that really came about because of our parents. The Cuyahoga River caught on fire in 1969. Most of us boomers were still in school. That stuff wasn't our fault.

[Bucky]

12. Altho she was clearly in the wrong. that's sure one ungrateful kid there too!

To be clear; she showed shitty judgment and shouldn't be allowed to run a classroom.

Still, this ain't exactly Mary LeTourneau either.

[devilgrrl]

19. Shit guys! Where was she when YOU were 14??????

:sarcasm:

[Skittles]

30. OMG dvilgrrl

don't get those juvenile assholes started - the ones who think a teenage boy's boner negates all friggin' logic :puke:

[GaYellowDawg]

45. Hm.

the ones who think a teenage boy's boner negates all friggin' logic

It usually does for the teenage boys. And not just teenagers. How many times do women accuse men of thinking with their dicks? A whole lot. And the reason why it's a persistent accusation is that in many cases it's true.

A teenage boy is a walking erection. It doesn't mean that he's mature enough to handle either a sexual relationship or the potential consequences that come with it. It does mean that he will leap at the chance for sex. Not all teenage boys operate this way, but I don't think it's unfair to say that a significant majority does.

While many teenage boys would view sex with an attractive older woman as something incredible, they are much more vulnerable than they think or know, which is why significant penalties should exist for this type of behavior. The boys in this case are no less victims than the ones victimized by pederast priests.

[GaYellowDawg]

48. In my case? 4 years from being born.

That doesn't really do very much for me. :shrug:

Shoot, she doesn't do a tremendous amount for me now. No offense to female posters, but it's my opinion that women don't really get attractive until they're in their 30s. Then agian, I'm 39. I imagine that 10 years from now I will be saying that women aren't really attractive until they're in their 40s.

I can honestly say that at 14, the prospect of sex with a 21 year old would have been simultaneously thrilling and scary as hell. I also know there's a good chance it would have damaged how I dealt with women and with relationships for a long time.

[slackmaster]

74. When I was 14 I couldn't possibly have handled it

I would have even more intimidated than I was by girls my own age, plus I had zero control over my orgasms at that point in my life.

[ComerPerro]

20. so, pedophile, she should be locked away for 10 to 15 years minimum, right DU?

[southerncrone]

23. Correct. Plus a lot of therapy.

[tkmorris]

24. Actually, on the last thread I got flamed on

The claim was that such people should be locked up for life, no parole. It was said that recidivism is so high for sexual offenders that target children that keeping them locked up was the only option available.

Of course, this one will be viewed differently because the offender is female. Hardly anyone will admit that, but it's true.

[Unvanguard]

25. As long as it was consensual, she shouldn't be jailed.

Dismissed as a teacher, yes. Jailed, no.

[Bluebear]

27. Would that apply if the sex/ages were reversed? nt

[sandnsea]

29. A 14 year old cannot give consent n/t

[RedRocco]

33. they can in SC, its in our constitution

it says age of consent for non-deviant sex is 14 and general age of consent is 16. thats why the cheer-leading coach from Ware Shoals was only charged with supplying alcohol and tobacco to minors after pimping cheerleaders out to the national guard

[gollygee]

36. How do they define "non-deviant sex" and how do you know they didn't do something

that meets that definition?

[dogday]

38. Do you have a link or can you tell me more?

I used to live in Gville... Would love to hear more of your story.... :hi:

[treestar]

43. Somewhere along the line, maybe older than 14

but say at 16 the consent factor should come into play. Our society is obsessed with clear-cut rules but does not take into account the differences between individual people.

If this had been two fourteen year olds, there wouldn't be a crime. Yet should two 14 year olds really be having sex? To say it's OK is to really say we are not taking having sex seriously at all. If they were both 14, maybe they should both be sent to juvenile hall.

[confludemocrat]

55. so this is a potential landmark "equal protection under the law" type case?

half-seriously speaking, but who's going to pursue this to that length?

[ComerPerro]

56. 14 can't give consent, its abuse and rape

[TX-RAT]

63. 21 yr old molesting a 14 year old is a felony.

In most states.

[sandnsea]

28. YES n/t

[slackmaster]

73. She needs psychiatric help

And maybe an experienced older man (like me) to show her the way.

[ComerPerro]

75. but I thought peodphilia is incurable, and never goes away

[slackmaster]

79. Whether or not she actually is a pedophile is a matter for a professional to diagnose

Even the few of us on this board who are qualified to make such a diagnosis are probably not able to do so without interviewing her.

[Odin2005]

84. Not to nit-pick, but Pedophillia is attraction to PRE-PUBESCENT people.

Not that I'm defending the teacher or anything, but this is more an abuse of authority IMO thing then a sex crime (And I would think the same way if the teacher was male and the student female).

[951-Riverside]

31. (Removed)

That came out wrong.

[B Calm]

32. Why can't these good looking young teachers like having

sex with old men?

[ProfessorGAC]

47. A Personal Interest in this, B Calm?

LOL! I think i know what you're after!
The Professor

[TahitiNut]

51. Education?

:rofl:

[verse18]

40. This woman is a sexual perpetrator

just like any 21yo man who has sex with a 14yo no matter how 'hot' she is. The power differential in this type of 'relationship' is not equal and that 14yo was being taken advantage of. Why do some DUers think this is okay when it's an female predator and a male victim? The 14yo is a victim, he didn't 'get lucky.'

edit to add:

I work in the field of child abuse and neglect and anyone who can defend an adult who has sex with any minor is the reason I will always have a job.


Imagine a childhood disease that affects 1 in 5 girls and 1 in 7 boys before the age of 18; a disease that can cause dramatic mood swings, erratic behavior, and even severe conduct disorders among those exposed; a disease that breeds distrust of adults and undermines the possibility of experiencing normal sexual relationships; a disease that can have profound implications for an individual's future health by increasing the risk of problems such as substance abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, and suicidal behavior; a disease that replicates itself by causing some of its victims to expose future generations to its debilitating effects.

Imagine what we, as a society, would do if such a disease existed...

Such a disease does exist; it's called child sexual abuse.

-James Mercy
Originally published in Sex Abuse: A Journal of Research and Treatment, vol. 11, no. 4, 3/17-3/21, 1999

[plcdude]

80. Well said

I think you have the clearest view on this matter. Thank you for speaking out.

[treestar]

41. People are strange

this girl would have no trouble finding a man over the age of consent.

[Robson]

44. She needs a couple weeks in rehab and then claim to be born again

What she needs is a couple weeks in rehab, then walk around with a Bible and claim to have been born again.

That'll get her back to teaching within several months.

You combine those two, and it's as good as rebooting the computer, all the problems are cleared up and everything made well again.

[ComerPerro]

70. yeah that's about all it takes

[Jonathan50]

49. Funny, there has been no trial yet.

And I don't see a single "alleged" in the story.

Verdict first and then the trial, eh?

It wouldn't entirely surprise me to find out that the boy in question had a "crush" on the longtime family friend and made the entire story up due to feeling rejected.

Fourteen year old boys think of very little *other* than sex.

[Xenotime]

53. Lucky little bastard

[verse18]

58. Lucky to be sexually abused?

[confludemocrat]

54. probably very very few, if any, women serial offenders of this type

seems like it's always a one-shot deal, unlike the men who go after young girls, who even develop partnerships and turn it into a little industry and whose whole lives revolve around it

there isn't really a good comparison for this type of case between the sexes, yet many here always try to bend over backwards to equate such cases as this one with male sex predators

[Goblinmonger]

59. So it's "OK"

for an older woman to have sex with a young boy but not OK for an older man to have sex with a young girl.


Or is it that is just isn't "as bad" for the young boy as it is for the young girl.

Or what the hell are you talking about.

This is no different than if the sexes were reversed. Or if they were the same sex (though if this were male teacher and male student, the country would have a fucking calf whereas not it's just "what a lucky little boy").

[VelmaD]

60. no it isn't ok...

but the point is that it only makes the news when it's an adult female sexually abusing an underage male. Even though it's statistically much more common for an adult male to sexually abuse an underage girl. But they're girls...so no one cares.

[WI_DEM]

62. Couldn't she find somebody a little closer to her age?

[TX-RAT]

64. too close now

Anymore it seems like kids teaching kids.

[raccoon]

86. People like her don't want to. THey want somebody younger

that they can feel they have power over.

[mac56]

67. Get ready for the litany of horndogs posting the following:

"where was she when I was 14? huh huh huh huh huhhhhhhhh......."

Jebus. She's a predator. Pathetic, not sexy.

[mudesi]

81. Is she really a predator?

These days, people are still very much emotionally and mentally immature in their early 20's. 23 and 24 year old "men" act like they're still in their teens, and the same thing goes for 23 or 24 year old "women". Sociologists say that "35 is the new 20" these days. They point to increased sensory input (TV, internet, instant communication devices) and a plethora of choices that lead to a retarded maturation. Back in the 50's, people became mature adults by the age of 18 to 20. Now, people don't become mature adults until their late 20's and early 30's.

That's just one point I'd like to make.

Another point is I don't like it when these stories come out and people automatically put the label "sexual predator" or "rapist" to what might have actually been consensual sex, especially when the "older" person of the two is a woman in her early 20's (to go back to the first point). We're not talking about her putting a gun to his head, here. Though one can argue that a 14 year old male is incapable of consenting to sex, I find that the arguments are simplistic at best. By the age of 14, the male's body is sexually mature and instinctively driven. There is a biological urge there that needs satisfaction, and a typical 14 year old male will "agree" to satisfying it. Is he emotionally ready and does he weigh all the risks and consequences? Of course not. Perhaps one can say that that constitutes a lack of the ability to consent, but what exactly IS consent? It's a simple "yes". Unless this woman tied the kid up or put him in hand cuffs and forced herself upon him, he consented to the sex.

Like it or not, there is a difference between an older women having sex with a younger (post-pubescent) boy and an older man having sex with a young girl. No matter how badly we all want everything to be equal in this world, we cannot remove the double standard that exists totally because of biological differences between men and women. An older man is most likely a sexual predator, while an older woman is probably not. The penis penetrates the vagina. I understand that a woman can physically get on top and force the issue, but for the most part the act of sex is one of male domination over the female. This is true not only for humans but also for animals (Here is an example).

In short, while legally this is a black and white issue, in reality there is a whole hell of a lot more nuance to these stories, as well as all stories involving innate human sexual behavior that is still very far from being understood.

[Odin2005]

85. I agree,

There is a difference, IMO between an adult bonking a kid and an adult bonking a teenager, the first person is a sicko, the second is just an asshole.

[TN al]

83. I am troubled by the headline of the story...

...I didn't see anything in the story that claimed they had a teacher student relationship. I did see an item that stated they had a pre-existing relationship for some time before the incident occurred. I guess a little bit of sensationalism sells papers the truth be damned.