Are Black immigrants from Africa and the Carribean the real "model minority?

[pampango]

"Black immigrants collect most degrees"

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0703180344mar18,1,2681158.column?coll=chi-news-col&ctrack=1&cset=true

"In a side-by-side comparison of 2000 census data by sociologists including John R. Logan at the Mumford Center, State University of New York at Albany, black immigrants from Africa averaged the highest educational attainment of any population group in the country, including whites and Asians.

For example, 43.8 percent of African immigrants had achieved a college degree, compared with 42.5 of Asian-Americans, 28.9 percent for immigrants from Europe, Russia and Canada and 23.1 percent of the U.S. population as a whole."

" That defies the usual stereotypes of Asian-Americans as the only "model minority." Yet the traditional American narrative has rendered the high academic achievements of black immigrants from Africa and the Caribbean invisible, as if that were a taboo topic."

"We tend to look too often at every aspect of diversity except economic class."

Very interesting that Black immigrants are more likely to get college degrees even than Asian immigrants. I would never have expected that (and my wife is an Asian immigrant. I didn't think anyone could be more college oriented than she is. ;) I wonder if the evolving of affirmative action in college admissions from a kind of reparations for slavery and its aftermath to a broader program for all Blacks and other minorities will make it more or less likely for AA to one day be targeted at class rather than race or ethic group.

[David__77]

1. The very term "model minority" is offensive.

There certainly is no "model majority" in this country.

[Yavin4]

2. Exactly. It's Condescending. It Assumes That The Majority White Population

should be emulated.

[pampango]

4. Sorry. As I mentioned my wife is Asian and

I have heard them referred to as the "model minority", by others not by her, for so long that I have become hardened to it. I make the mistake of using a term that does not offend her without realizing that it might offend others. She understands the term to recognize that most study hard in school and work hard at their careers, so it does not bother her.

Sorry if I offended anyone.

[NorthernSpy]

6. Pampango on Asians: "they are indeed 'short white folks'" (01/09/07)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=printer_friendly&forum=364&topic_id=3069355

:eyes:


Interestingly, this earlier remark is also from a discussion of blacks, education, and affirmative action -- with all the usual invidious comparisons made:

One could make the argument that in many cases they (Asians --NS) are more "white" than many American whites who, while they are young may spend more hours playing video games than studying and, when adults, may prefer longer vacations and shorter work weeks than extra hours spent at the office.

Putting that all together, spending less time studying, and working less hard, and taking longer vacations makes you less white in the OP's estimation.

And less white would be equivalent to more what, exactly?

[David__77]

7. Oh boy...

This is like "white = productive model citizen." I am prepared to give some benefit of the doubt and hope what was meant was "more white according to the hegemonic social conceptions of the ruling elite." I hope that's the case.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Oh Lord.

One of those.

[pampango]

10. I was using the term as it had been used by a previous poster.

(Wow you guys are pretty good at digging up statements to put someone down. You should be working for someone's campaign. It's a good way to put someone on the defensive. ;)

"3073494, "Asian" my ass
Posted by GreenZoneLT on Tue Jan-09-07 05:11 AM

Those are Americans. How many of those kids are second- and third-generation (or fourth-, fifth-, etc.) Americans? They're about as "foreign" to American culture as Italians.

Americans of East Asian descent are, basically, short white folks, as far as being able to get fit into American society. Heck, half my friends have adopted Chinese kids.

3073845, Indeed, most Asian immigrants (and succeeding generations)
Posted by pampango on Tue Jan-09-07 08:48 AM

accept the rules of the "American game" and work hard to succeed at it at school and at work. They are indeed "short white folks". One could make the argument that in many cases they are more "white" than many American whites who, while they are young may spend more hours playing video games than studying and, when adults, may prefer longer vacations and shorter work weeks than extra hours spent at the office.

Precisely because many may consider them to be "white" (though that idea drives most Asian-Americans crazy, at least most of those I know), should we not pause to consider the societal implications of Asian-Americans displacing Blacks and Hispanics at our universities?"

I am not sure how GreenZoneLT meant to use the term "short white people." My meaning was that someone who immigrates here and plays by the rules of the dominant white culture can be referred to as acting "white", much the same as some Blacks who study hard in school may be accused of acting "white" by some of their friends.

My bad if acting "white" is not a commonly understood cultural term used to oversimplify a complicated issue. I did not mean to state at the time that only whites study hard or work hard.

[Yavin4]

3. The Study Does Show That Race Is Not A Factor In Educational Achievement

This completely refutes the Charles Murray school that race determines educational achievement. Bunk. There are other factors that play into educational failures among some groups, including poverty, socialization, etc.

[pampango]

5. Exactly. I would hope that studies like this will open up the

possibility of using class as a factor in affirmative action. Obviously, in the US, issues of race and class are intertwined, but AA should help the lower class regardless of race or ethnicity, without ignoring discrimination against and the historical struggles of Blacks, some of whom are now middle class or above.

[HamdenRice]

8. Selection bias: It may just show it's harder to migrate from Africa than anywhere

In other words, I would expect a very low percentage of Mexican immigrants to be degree collectors because most "walk" across the border for menial jobs.

It is virtually impossible, on the other hand to migrate from Africa to the US for any purpose other than for a university scholarship.

Unless the statistical study corrects for the number of African immigrants who come here specifically for educational purposes, it would be meaningless.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. Not meaningless, it just has to be interpreted correctly.

The study means exactly what it says - that a higher proportion of people who immigrate from Africa to America collect college degrees than is true of many other demographics. That's a potentially useful piece of information.

As you say, it doesn't translate to "colleges are not discriminating against black people" or "africans are better than other groups at achieving college degrees" or other conclusions one might try to draw from it, but that doesn't mean it's meaningless.