Quantum Leap of Solitude -- maybe spoilers

[The Backlash Cometh]

Just saw the new James Bond movie. As far as plot is concerned, this one is probably the most relevant I've seen. But, I found it particularly uncomfortable that the US intelligence is more and more seen as enablers of global crime. That should make everyone stop and think for a while, how we are turning into this century's new Germans.

Thank you George Bush, GOP and principles of free market, for absolutely nothing.

[moggie]

1. Interesting mangling of the title

Were you trying to make a point with that? Because I don't think that's clear!

[The Backlash Cometh]

2. Yes, It was intentional.

Referring to the isolation we're going to experience because the rest of the free world will stop trusting us.

[racaulk]

3. .

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

4. I feel a little slimey for what I'm about to say, but

we can't shoulder it all on Bush II and the GOP alone (although a number of high-ranking Republicans are among the culpable). Tinkering in Latin/South American politics has been the State Department's (and later the CIA's) M.O. since the 1890s at least. And while expansionist and imperialist presidents like Bush II and Reagan have done a great deal of damage, there are Democrats who have aided and advanced the same agenda such as Kennedy and LBJ.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. This is all true.

But you know what i find the most interesting? It's taken this long for that history you talk about, to be commonly accepted in the mainstream.

[Idealism]

5. Have you forgotten Waco?

The 'jack-booted thug' agents of our government slaughtered an entire compound of people, most defenseless and many of them children, because a few people who lived their were buying up guns and raising their voices about the government. Our government over the past two decades has become crime itself, and personally I think the Bush administration can fall under RICO statues and be prosecuted. One can only hope...

[The Backlash Cometh]

7. Actually, by today's standards, what started the whole mess would have

been handled by Homeland Security:

"In May 1992, Chief Deputy Daniel Weyenberg of the McLennan County Sheriff's Department called the ATF notifying that his office had been contacted by the local United Parcel Service regarding a driver seeing a package that had broken open on delivery to the Branch Davidian residence, revealing that it contained firearms, inert grenade casings, and black powder. On June 9, 1992 a formal investigation was opened and a week later it was classified as sensitive, thereby calling for a high degree of oversight from both Houston and Headquarters (italics on the original).<15><16>"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_Siege

What happened, in the end, was no doubt, a clusterfuck. But, it did require further investigation.

[Idealism]

8. Of course further investigation was needed

Not the death of 90 innocent civilians, none of whom were armed. There are thousands of things that should be investigated, and we get a few reports of them (increased KKK activity/enrollment, etc) that do get investigated, but when is the ATF going on a rampage against the Imperial Klans? If one was supposedly a threat to the government, how is the other not? When does this shit end

[The Backlash Cometh]

9. How many Wacos have occurred in the USA?

You said, "When does this shit end?" What other shit are you referring to?

[Idealism]

10. That line was referring specifically to the crime family mentality

of our government. When the government commits a crime, its called law enforcement. When you or I commit a crime, its called a felony and we go to jail.

[bean fidhleir]

11. Yep. When people secretly work together to fleece an innocent third party

while pretending to be strangers or even opponents, it's called a confidence game and is a felony.

Except when the con artists are Republicans and Democrats. Then it's called government.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

12. Meh.

Some people killed some cops, then when they wouldn't surrender they killed the hostages.

:shrug:

[Idealism]

13. I suggest you read into history a bit more

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. I suggest you put down the kool-aid.

[Idealism]

16. Such an intelligent and well-researched response needs the same.

You are an ignorant fool.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. I'm not the Waco wacko.

:shrug:

[Idealism]

19. Brief History of a Banana Republic

In what turns out to be the most expensive law enforcement operation in history, BATF agents begin assault on the Branch Davidian church compound near Waco, Texas, culminating with the incineration of 60 church members, including 25 children. The BATF agents, dressed in battle gear, are indeed wearing "jack-boots." Government agents, participating in this massacre, including Larry Potts, are rewarded with advancements and medals. No government agent is prosecuted for any crime in connection with this action.

* US Marshal William F. Degan, after killing the Weaver's dog, and shooting their fourteen-year-old son Samuel Weaver in the back, killing him instantly, is himself killed, apparently by friendly fire. Also in battle gear, Degan is wearing "jack-boots."

* FBI Hostage Rescue Team sniper Ron Harucci shoots Vicki Weaver through the head while she is holding her ten-month old infant daughter.

* An Idaho jury finds Randy Weaver innocent of all but minor charges, and in a nearly unprecedented event, the U.S. Government pays what's left of the Weaver family over $3 million in damages. This payment for damages comes from taxes and/or Federally borrowed money.

* The much hullabalooed line "jackbooted thugs" used in the controversial NRA fundraising letter was originally "jackbooted fascists" and used by Congressman John D. Dingell D-MICH, in <1981.> -C-SPAN, 24 May, 1995


Brief History of a Banana Republic
Compiled by L. Reichard White

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle1997/le970215-10.html

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

20. ...

"The BATF agents, dressed in battle gear, are indeed wearing "jack-boots.""

Considering they were serving a warrant on cop killers, it's a good thing they went in with protection.

[Idealism]

21. No one killed cops until they showed up at their houses with assault rifles

Prove otherwise if you can

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. Exactly my point. They killed cops.

Cops showed up at their molestation huts with warrants, the bastards shot the cops.

[Idealism]

23. ...

They showed up with assault rifles and opened fire first. Some of the BATF agents were actually killed by friendly fire, as well. Most of the victims inside the compound were unarmed followers, yet they all were burned save a handful. If the government was in the wrong about the massacre, why did they pay restitution to the remaining family members?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. The Branch Davidians lost their civil suits.

And the courts determined they fired first, btw.

[Idealism]

26. Then why was the Weaver family awarded $3 million dollars

if the government was in error? Why did they not release the numbers of dead till weeks after, and order news teams to keep an insane 20 mile radius? How did the civil suits get thrown out if the government paid them money to shut their mouths?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

27. Because Ruby Ridge and Waco were two different incidents?

Maybe you should study history.

[Idealism]

29. They were part of the same cult

Read more plz

[Cleita]

15. That's been going on for a long time particularly in South America.

George W. Bush didn't start it but he brought it up into what it is today.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. His Poppy was also CIA director.

Things that make you go hm..

[JeanGrey]

24. Ah yes I am always ready to be depressed at what my

country is doing especially when I find out through a James Bond movie.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. It was a good movie.

The US was just one part of the problem. Just a small storyline, but very convincing. The movie also had parallels to what is happening in Paraguay. Don't want to say more about that. Big spoiler.

[librechik]

28. I liked that the John Bolton type got kicked out, and Felix, the black CIA agent

got his job.

There may be "hope" for us yet.

[The Backlash Cometh]

31. Let's hope that wasn't just a "Hollywood" ending.

[librechik]

32. I embarrassed myself and hubby by yelling Boo Bush! and Yay Obama! at certain points

don't know if anybody else got it, tho...