Bush Health Insurance Plan will make for smaller paychecks

[PinkTiger]

If it passes, I will lose my flexible spending account that currently puts money aside for prescription drugs, tax free; it will also mean that this money, plus the insurance costs that are now tax exempt, will be added back into my income before taxes and social security taxes are figured. I will bring home about $400 less a month. Although I will theoretically get some of this back at the end of the year with the new tax deduction, it hurts my bottom line.
Why would I want this? Why would I need this? Today the flexible spending account helps pay for dental bills and prescriptions. My husband is a heart patient, and I suffer from hypertension, asthma and allergies. Without the drug benefit, I pay these fees with no reimbursement to help out.

Am I seeing this correctly? Missing something? Help?

[antigop]

1. imo, this is all a ruse to get you to move to high-deductible policies with health savings accounts

If you have "too rich" of an insurance plan -- one that would be taxed, you will be enticed to go with a cheaper plan -- one with a higher deductible.

The Pension Protection Act passed last year expanded the health savings accounts. So the idea is to combine a high-deductible policy with a health savings account.

That's the way I see it. It's a windfall to the insurance companies -- because the high-deductible plans are more profitable --- and a windfall to mutual funds and banks -- because they will be ever-so-happy to manage that health savings account for you.

[acmejack]

2. It's a plan to kill Social Security too!

It will take all of that money out of the payroll taxes, as I understand it. So SS will lose bigtime. This an all around terrible idea.

[antigop]

3. It will impact your Social Security payments -- Media Matters

Great summary -- please read:
http://mediamatters.org/items/200701250012

>>
Summary: Washington Post columnist Ruth Marcus claimed that "80 percent of those with employer-sponsored coverage" would be "unaffected" under President Bush's health care proposal. But, in fact, most workers with employer-sponsored coverage would presumably be affected, because they would pay less into Social Security -- and therefore receive smaller payments when they retire.
>>

[TahitiNut]

4. This is a very important 'feature' of their strategy.

These batshit insane people are hell-bent to destroy Social Security and vacuum those Trust Fund dollars into the stock market, creating obscenely inflated equity prices and permitting the 'ownership class' to cash in big time.

It's absolutely essential for people to realize that the helath of Social Security is tied to the fair compensation of working people. The 'projected' shortfall in the Social secuirty Trust Fund in 40 years is an indication of the ENORMOUS suppression of wages and salaries for the "bottom 90%" - the people whose payroll taxes fund Social Security.

An increase in the federal minimum wage is one of the best things that can be done for the economic health of the Social Security system. Absolutely every dollar in increased wages for the working poor increases the FICA revenues, increases THEIR coverage, and goes to safeguarding THEIR parents and grandparents.

[antigop]

6. And the idea is to get those health savings account dollars into the stock market

That's what I think. The mutual fund companies will be ever-so-happy to manage that HSA money for you.

[RB TexLa]

7. That's where part of my HSA money is, most in bond funds though.

[antigop]

9. HSAs -- windfall for mutual funds and banks N/t

[RB TexLa]

10. It's good for me too, I've already raised the deductible and lowered premium cost

And the money is managed by the company my wife works for. Hardly effects their bottom line but every bit helps.

[antigop]

12. Yeah, it's great as long as you don't get sick

All this is doing is moving more risk to the employee.

[RB TexLa]

16. If I get sick I use the money in the HSA and then if I go past the

annual deductible the insurance kicks in.

I'm not an employee, I'm self employed. With the tax advantages it's very good for me and provides well for health costs should they arise. The health plan does provide for first dollar coverage of preventive measures and I carry supplemental policies for cancer, heart attack, stroke, transplant, and ICU, all of which are allowed with HSA's under the tax code.

[antigop]

18. IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY IN THE HSA TO COVER THE DEDUCTIBLE

It only works IF PEOPLE HAVE THE MONEY TO PUT INTO THE HSA IN THE FIRST PLACE!

[RB TexLa]

19. Correct, that is how it works.

Why the bold type for that?

[antigop]

21. because people don't seem to understand what HSAs are all about

HSAs ONLY work when someone has the means to put money into the account to begin with.

They are only a tax shelter for people who can afford to put money into them.

[RB TexLa]

5. FSA's are a separate benefit and are part of the tax code

They are not changed by anything B*sh proposed. You do not have to be on your group plan to utilize any of the three flexible spending accounts, (Un reimbursed health care, child/elder care, and transportation.)


The plan which is DOA would only count as income what your employer pays for you over $7500 for an individual or $15,000 for a family.

My wife would be hit as her employer paid $9,600 for her health insurance last year.

[antigop]

8. So the idea is to move your wife to a "cheaper plan"....

so she wouldn't be taxed (or not taxed as much).

And the "cheaper" plans will be ones with high(er) deductibles.

[RB TexLa]

11. As I understand it that is the goal, the thought that she has insurance that pays

for alot, and she along with others in her position are in a position to overuse it and raise health insurance costs overall.

She would probably stay with what she has. It would mean she has to pay taxes on the difference. Looking at it $693 wouldn't be a bad cost for it, but she and no one else should have to pay taxes on what their employer pays for them.

[antigop]

13. Oh, please! People overuse insurance -- - yeah, right

People just LOOOOVE going to the doctor.

Yeah. Everyone has Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy.

[RB TexLa]

17. I don't think they do either, just stating B*sh's rational behind the

proposal

[Horse with no Name]

14. We carry two health insurance policies

Our premiums are $600 a month.
We will have to drop one of our policies because it is just a backup and there isn't any need in paying additional taxes on it.
About the flex spending account. I have set aside 3k this year. Will I lose that or will that be taxed?

[RB TexLa]

23. Your FSA is safe

the plan is DOA, but even if implemented it does nothing to change this aspect of section 125 of the tax code. The thing that I think has been picked up and run with is you can't use FSA (unreimbursed medical only) if you have an HSA. But if a taxation plan like this were to occur (very doubtful) your FSA would be fine as long as you didn't set up a HSA.

[antigop]

15. pssst -- don't tell anyone -- they want to get rid of employer insurance

http://www.madison.com/tct/opinion/index.php?ntid=116173&ntpid=0
>>
"The president's so-called health care proposal won't help the uninsured, most of whom have limited incomes and are already in low tax brackets," explains the key player in Congress on health care issues, Rep. Pete Stark, the California Democrat who chairs the House Ways and Means Committee's powerful health subcommittee. "But it will hurt middle-income Americans, whose employers will shift even more cost and risk to their employees."

Stark fears that the proposal highlighted in Bush's State of the Union address would actually encourage employers to stop providing insurance to workers who are now reasonably well covered.

"Under the guise of tax breaks, the president is pursuing a policy designed to destroy the employer-based health care system through which 160 million people receive coverage," says the congressman, who is viewed by Democrats and Republicans as Washington's most zealous advocate for expanding access to health care.

Stark is not crying wolf.

Paul Fronstin, the director of the nonpartisan Employee Benefit Research Institute's Health Research and Education Program, says of the Bush plan: "I think (the president is) giving employers the incentive to get out of the business of providing health benefits."

>>

Now decoupling health insurance from employment isn't a bad idea if we have something else (like a national universal health insurance program) to move into.

What Bush's plan does it try to remove you from an employer plan on to the individual market --very expensive and they can jack up the premiums or deny coverage because of pre-existing conditions.

[dogday]

20. Any plan that Bush has is shit for the people

I don't think he has done one damn thing for working people in this country to really improve the quality of life.. He just keeps fucking us up more and more....

[antigop]

22. Absolutely!

His plan is a windfall for insurance companies, banks, and mutual funds.