Supreme Court hears ‘Bong Hits 4 Jesus’ case

[Roon]

WASHINGTON - A high school senior’s 14-foot banner proclaiming “Bong Hits 4 Jesus” gave the Supreme Court a provocative prop for a lively argument Monday about the extent of schools’ control over student speech.

If the justices conclude Joseph Frederick’s homemade sign was a pro-drug message, they are likely to side with principal Deborah Morse. She suspended Frederick in 2002 when he unfurled the banner across the street from the school in Juneau, Alaska.

“I thought we wanted our schools to teach something, including something besides just basic elements, including the character formation and not to use drugs,” Chief Justice John Roberts said Monday.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17687386/

[villager]

1. these fucking Republicans dare speak of "character?"

n/t

[H2O Man]

2. It is possible

that the case could result in the Supreme Court defining rather restrictive guidelines for students in high school settings.

[SoCalDem]

3. and OFF campus (which this was)

There are already some places that will not "allow" unaccompanied teens at MALLS.

Teens will be forbidden to show any "rambunctious" behavior...anywhere...(reflects badly on their school)..

Things we did as kids, will result in jail-time these days..

When I was a senior, we gathered up all the spray hair color from our drama department and decided to "scare the maintenance man".

he always slept in the boiler room (when he was supposed to be working), sowe sneaked in and tossed all those cans into the boiler thingie.. They exploded and sent fumes & smoke all over the place.

We got caught and were told "You kids should know better..don;t do that again".

Today,m we would have been labeled terra-ists and led out in cuffs.

He started locking his door after our adventure :)

[H2O Man]

4. I am under the impression

that it was "off campus" in that it was across the street from the school, but done on school time. If it wasn't on school time, I would predict a different outcome.

Before I retired, I used to be concerned that a number of the cases we reviewed in staff (I worked with adults, not children & youth in my last job) involved kids being kids. This case sounds pretty mild to me. I admire young people who take a "let's test the system" attitude and approach. However, even as one who believes in both free speech and making pot legal for adults, I think the school has good reason to say "no" to "Bong hits for Jesus" banners during school hours.

[kiahzero]

6. He didn't go to school that day.

The school is wildly overreaching their authority by attempting to regulate the expressions of students when they are not even "within the schoolhouse gates," physically or metaphorically.

The only way this gets upheld is the Court turning its back on 30+ years of precedent.

[H2O Man]

7. I stand corrected.

Then there should be a very different outcome than what I anticipated. Thank you for correcting me on this!

[bigtree]

8. is all written expression to be banned, or just expressions on large posters?

Is there a list to be drawn up of objectionable language which includes 'bong hits' or is there one already?

Who is charged with defining what words are objectionable? Since both legal and illegal substances are used in 'bongs', what other smoking implement would it be out of bounds to advocate taking a 'hit' from?

[treestar]

5. If people would just quit taking the bait

When teenagers do this kind of thing.

The teen has free speech. He is not disrupting a class. Can they get over it now?

Roberts is a moran. The schools are not responsible for teaching "character formation." If they were, the Bushnazis would be defining "character" in no time.

[mikelewis]

9. I think it's sad...

...when our children are fighting in the Supreme Court for the right to say what ever stupid ass shit they can think of. When I was in school, we would have been expelled for ignorant shit like this and though I agree with this fools right to free speech, I only wish he didn't use it to make such an ass out of himself.

The only reason I would support a ruling against him is because I do not believe children under the age of 18 have the same expectation of civil liberties as do adults. That of course does not mean a child's human rights are open for violation but my personal opinion is that they do not have the same expectation of civil liberties. In this case, while ignorant and childish, I do believe his civil rights were violated because he was in a public venue however if he was in class or participating in a school function, I would agree with the schools principle and support the suspension.

While I understand what Roberts is saying, I believe the the kid in question did learn enough to know when his right to freedom of speech is being violated and the article stated that the boy quoted Jefferson when accosted so he must have learned something. I guess it's fortunate that the right to free speech affords one the opportunity to be an asshole from time to time, I just wish so many people wouldn't jump on every opportunity they get to push that concept to such an inappropriate limit.

...p.s. for the sake of full disclosure... I like both Jesus and bong-hits but it doesn't mean I have to pat a kid on the back because he has figured how to legally use them both in a sentence...

[bigtree]

10. they're kids. pushing boundries can be very productive and enlightening

the notion that this was an inappropriate limit is a strange defense of free-speech. Who determines the 'appropriateness' of expressions?

I think you got it right when you reasoned that the kid learned something about the legal boundries of free speech from his experience.

[mikelewis]

12. I don't believe the law sets an inappropriate limit but it still doesn't make the kids actions any..

... less "assholish". The kid even said that there was no reason for it other than to exercise his right to say it and that's sort of being an asshole. Was the comment inappropriate? In my judgment, it was but in appropriate speech is not illegal speech and therefore is and should be protected under the First Amendment... though I can assure you, this case is most definitely not what Jefferson had in mind when he championed free speech (though I do believe, Jefferson would have stood with this kid even if he didn't agree with the appropriateness of the banner).

Justice Breyer is worried that the ruling may make it harder for teachers to do their jobs but that's just the messy side of freedom. The boy was clearly within his rights and though the fascist Scalito brothers will probably rule against him, I hope the rest of the court follows the rule of law. One would hope that in the future the schools would get smarter principals who understand how to change behavior without resorting to illegal suppression of a child's rights. There were other ways of handling this that didn't require making a literal Supreme Court case out of an assholish sign.

[bigtree]

14. I still think that many of our children's expressions could be dismissed

as 'assholish', but, are actually enlightening and empowering, for them, if only in their exercise of those expressions.

You are on the mark with your view of the legalities and assessment of the official overreaction.

[mikelewis]

17. His use of Jefferson was enlightening and empowering and even deserving of respect...

..."Bong Hits for Jesus" sort of lowers the bar a bit. While Free Speech is a right and should be protected, it doesn't mean we must get rid of our definition of "good taste".

This is legal speech...



however it is clearly in poor taste and though I would stand up to even defend these assholes... I do not have to agree with them and in fact would use my free speech to say that they are assholes.

[NightWatcher]

11. If the kid wins, guess how I'm celebrating.....

If he loses, guess how I will soothe my sorrow.


bubble bubble bubble

[mikelewis]

13. Are you anywhere near Cleveland....

lol...

I'll join ya...

[NightWatcher]

15. we need a virtual "smoke- in"

How cool would it be to have a forum full of people getting toasted at once. I can almost smell the happiness.
(In A Gadda Da Vida begins playing in background)

[mikelewis]

16. I thought that's what the Lounge was...

...in fact, you can probably tell how many times I've been high by the number of posts there...

Which is sadly a low number btw...

[Nikki Stone1]

18. He was across the street from the school and not in school?

Is that correct?

[demobabe]

19. Dupe thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=447778&mesg_id=447778