How many people here thought the war would still be going after 4 years?

[Poiuyt]

I'll admit that I didn't. Even though I was one of the 10%ers, I thought our military would go in and cruise to an easy victory, and Bush would be hailed as a conquering hero. The country was hungry for war, Bush's popularity was high, and I thought that he would go in and it would all be over with quickly. I remember thinking "oh Lord, now were going to have to put up with his strutting til the end of his term." I really was afraid that the might of our military would give Bush the ticket to a successful and popular presidency and that history would not look at him too critically because of it. I knew that Iraq had nothing to do with terrorism, I thought Bush was picking Iraq because it was an easy target for him to become a "war president." He knew how high his father's popularity got during the first Gulf War and he wanted to duplicate it. What I didn't figure on was Rumsfeld's incompetence.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. I don't think I knew how long it would last

but I had a vision of a whole lot of people killed, maimed, and families torn apart--it was a frightening, dark vision.

[crim son]

2. I wasn't convinced that the easy victory was plausible

but four years? No, I didn't anticipate that.

[devilgrrl]

3. I knew once we went in - we'd never leave.

I also knew that it would end up as an unmitigated disaster.

I'm two for two so far.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. I knew.

[Dr Fate]

5. I felt it would still be going on. I never trusted Bush, the media or the conservative Democrats.

n/t

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. Raise your hand if you think it's still going to be going on 4 years from now.

[bdamomma]

42. do not be fooled, we are there to stay unfortunately

since they built many bases there, I do not think these thugs are willing to hand that over to the Iraqis, it's all about the oil and the control of it.

[southerncrone]

7. Figured we'd take out Saddam & then come home. Most of us didn't know the political prob. in Iraq,

but it was the duty of an invading administration to know what they were pledging our troops to do.

THIS IS PURELY BUSH'S WAR!!!!! IT CANNOT BE SAID TOO OFTEN, NOR TOO LOUDLY!!!!

[kineneb]

8. I did- read Chalmers Johnson's Sorrows of Empire

and figured out what the asshats were up to... PNAC wanted to establish permanent bases there, to control the oil and Muslim threat to Israel... they are still trying, and failing...

[panader0]

9. The war is not just Iraq. It is a global "war on terrorism"

using this ambiguous definition allows bushco to make war indefinately anywhere in the world. It is Orwellian.

[Jersey Devil]

10. Obviously not this guy!

[hobbit709]

11. I saw QUAGMIRE from the beginning

Any student of history could see that.

[Poiuyt]

15. I guess I just remembered what an easy time our military had the first time

Of course, even Bush's father said back then that going into Baghdad would cause a quagmire.

[bdamomma]

44. * should have listened to his father

but we are dealing with a defiant little brat here.

[mwb970]

41. I also envisioned an endless quagmire.

My concern was that the Sunnis and Shiites would go after each other in a civil war if we took out the strongman that was keeping them in check.

But here's what neocon Bill Kristol said on the subject on NPR in the war's opening weeks:

"There's been a certain amount of pop sociology in America that the Shia can't get along with the Sunni and the Shia in Iraq want to establish some kind of Islamic fundamentalist regime. There's been almost no evidence of that at all. Iraq's always been very secular."

Thanks for the insight, Bill. Wrong again, I see, eh? Presumably our president was a lot more informed about a country he was about to invade. Here's a statement made by former American diplomat Peter Galbraith in a television interview from November 2005:

"In January 2003 the President invited three members of the Iraqi opposition to join him to watch the Super Bowl. In the course of the conversation the Iraqis realized that the President was not aware that there was a difference between Sunni and Shiite Muslims. He looked at them and said, 'You mean...they're not, you know, there, there's this difference. What is it about?'"

So this is the level of knowledge our president and his neocon buddies had as the war began. Meanwhile, I thought we would end up in a quagmire, babysitting a civil war. But what do I know?

[deutsey]

46. I told people who supported the invasion a quagmire would happen

I was assured there'd be dancing in the streets and the US would be out after maybe a year, celebrated as a great liberator.

:eyes:

[Greyhound]

12. I did, and I'll go so far as to say that if we elect another war monger, we'll

still be there in 2011, or 2015, or until we figure out that, just like in Vietnam, we're on the wrong side and cannot win against the Iraqi patriots.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. I expected it to last until we get bush out of office

Now I'm not even sure that will be the end of the war.

[raccoon]

48. I'm not sure it will, either. In fact, I doubt it will.

Remembering in 1968, Nixon said he had a "secret plan" to end the Vietnam War. Five years later, the troops were pulled out.

[bigwillq]

14. I did.

Sadly, I don't think there will ever be true peace over there and in these last four years, we just made it worse, imo.

Now, the "bad guys" hate Us even more and they are recruiting and breeding more and more terrarists. It will never end over there.

That's why we need to get out ASAP.

[treestar]

16. No, I thought like you did

Mainly thinking of the Gulf War - but then with that you can remember that Pappy didn't get to strut forever.

[flyingfysh]

17. I expected this outcome

There are just too many similarities to Vietnam. And Bush is stupid.

[StatGirl]

18. I did. It had "Vietnam" written all over it from the get-go. (NT)

[Faygo Kid]

20. Yep. The Middle East infinitely more complicated than Southeast Asia.

The neocons and Project for a New American Century are obviously ideologues who are not through with surprises yet, by any means. It was obvious then that they were determined to happily use 9-11 for their insanity, and equally obvious that they would never give up feeding other families' kids into the meat grinder. And they won't. Our hope was to stop them in 2004. Now - who knows? Anyway, once we went into this mess, anyone with knowledge of history knew it wouldn't be what it was set out to be.

[blues90]

19. When I heard the term War on terror

I knew once we went into Iraq as I protested this I knew Iraq was just a part of an over-all plan of never ending war . War on Terror my rear .

[tom_paine]

21. I expected it would last at least until then end of Bush's term

and that, because of the great expense we had poured into it (not to mention all that oil flowing through pipelines without meters right into Bush Family and Friends' coffers, after a brief detour to be converetd into laundered money or gold), that we would continue to have a presence tyhere for a long time.

And I think it will be happening just like that.

[ComerPerro]

22. Iraq war, hadn't dreamed of it. But war on terror, war in that region, how could you not?

[stillcool]

23. The Supreme Court Decision...

in 2001 guaranteed war.. in my mind...because it's what republicans do. The fact that Iraqi's have STILL not given up the oil, is astounding. I could not be more pissed off today, at the continued horse shit being spewn, and the reluctance of so many to view other scenarios. I'm beginning to have more respect for the American 'sheeple' as so many are fond of saying, for their complete disregard for the choreographed drama performed on the public stage. After all this time, to hear the same tired phraseology..that didn't make sense on the first go around, repeated like an echo, is very, very sad.

[blues90]

24. What about when bush said "first war of the 21st century "

Was this not a big clue ?

[Skittles]

25. I DID

I TOLD EVERYONE I KNEW THAT IF THAT BASTARD BUSH WAS INSTALLED INTO THE WHITE HOUSE IT WOULD BE ENDLESS WAR

[NuttyFluffers]

28. i was saying the same as you in 1999

in fact, i kne he'd get into office whether anyone liked it or not. the connections his family has is too strong, and the oil powers have been chomping at the bit under "the clinton glitch". they expected bush sr. to get a 2nd term, and everything to proceed from there. actually, i'm just surprise we've been able to fend off a 3rd war against iran for so long. i expected a bit worse by now in some fronts, but the housing collapse and others tend to even out my despairing prophecy, a la Cassandra. a little bad here, a touch more horror there, an unexpected dollop of misery over there... it all balanced out.

[niyad]

26. I did--anybody who knew the least little bit about the ME knew that invading iraq was going to

create an absolutely untenable situation. watching him get his rocks off telling lie after lie, I knew it was going to be horrible. unfortunately, I was right, and continue to be so. I hate it.

[TahitiNut]

27. It's not a 'war' - it's a military occupation.

There has NEVER been any intention to leave. None. It was obvious in September 2002.

[riderinthestorm]

29. Although I was against it from the start, I was initially swayed by how easy the military action was

So I felt the same as you. I thought BFEE had a plan for securing the place (and the oil) - granted it was probably a secret govt BFEE/Halliburton/Carlisle group plan that entailed monstrous appropriation of the Iraqi oil reserves but I honestly believed they had a plan to seize it all through brutality, blunt force and deception. Assuming that meant that the whole thing would be done asap and all resistance would have been suppressed any way necessary.

Then the looting started and the reports began of how Saddam had prepped his army to melt away so the US soldiers would face an urban guerrilla war. The first suicide bombings started and ethnic cleansing began. Within 6 months at most, I knew - absolutely knew - we were facing the worst possible situation: no post-"war" (cough) plan, no security stabilization force, rampant greed and an almost medieval post-battlefield looting by everyone involved, friend and enemy.

That's when I knew we were in for a brutal conflict for generations. I always knew that BFEE/Halliburton et al were going to have US control of Iraq for decades but it was about 6 months into the situation that it became apparent that we were in for decades of bloodshed too.

[Bjorn Against]

30. I can honestly say I predicted this...

I had a strong feeling from the very beginning that this would turn into another Vietnam, and indeed it has.

[depakid]

31. Bush wasn't planning on leaving

He and the Neocons wanted to establish permanent bases there from the outset- and it seemed pretty clear to a lot of us that deposing Saddam would lead to factionalism and civil war.

Color me unsurprised.

[Mz Pip]

32. I spent some time

researching the region. After reading about the history of the people there, I suspected things would not be a "slam dunk."

I wanted to be wrong. I wasn't. There is no satisfaction in that.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Jonathan50]

33. It only took a cursory knowledge of the history of the region..

To know that Iraq was going to fragment into warring factions after the iron hand of Saddam was removed from the yoke of power.

Iraq is so ethnically, tribally and religiously diverse that it makes Lebanon look like Japan by comparison.

[fighttheevilempire]

34. I did. That's why I was against it before we invaded.

It's also a large part of how I became active in the internet world of blogs and such. I don't post much but I'm glued to finding out all I can. I tired of the media pandering, and listening to too much stuff that clearly made no sense. Even now it pisses me off that at 20 years old I knew more than career journalists whose job it was to anticipate these things. To this day they still appear shocked about the progress of this war. Either I'm a genius, or these people are idiots. I'm no dummy, I've got a B.S., but I'm still more inclined to believe the latter. Without UN approval to invade, we're no better than WWII Germany in Poland. Sad really.

Spent a bunch of time tonight sorting thru the docu-dump last night, and was very disappointed in how much was NOT delivered. Nothing from that mysterious "gwb43.com" was in anything I read, though I admit I didn't sort through everything. There WILL be more leaks if this is the most the administration is willing to part with, though there are a few little tidbits to be found in there. A few places where names were whited out (obstruction of justice anyone?) really struck me. It's my understanding that redacting something in that manner in a Congressional subpoena would be a big no-no. There's going to have to be more subpoenas to get the rest of the emails. The documents do make clear that the congresscritters from CA (including duke himself, and Issa in large part) put a lot of pressure on Lam to drop the investigation/case before people with R's after their names got convicted. Lam really appears to be the crux of this whole thing. Add in Cheney giving Wade the cash he later uses to buy a yacht for Duke... and you can see how the WH really wanted to quash the Duke scandal. Like Waxman said ' there's a cat in this tree'. We need to keep barking.

[B Calm]

35. We need to stop calling it a war.

[jmatthan]

36. Me

The moment the US invaded Iraq it was obvious that they were going to lose this war.

Being greedy and stupid, it was obvious that those who invaded did not know the meaning of winning or losing, so they would go on and the gullible US public would be fed by the media so that the war machine could make their profits as long as they were allowed to.

"War is a Racket" published in 1935 (?) and Gen. Eisenhower's statement about war profiteering are what these people understand - the negative side of it.

The US does not how to make a graceful exit. This foolishness will continue and continue till the day the draft is imposed!

[BlueCollar]

37. I did

Been a student of history for too long I guess...

I warned my co-workers this would degenerate into a civil war...

[maine_raptor]

38. See my sig line?

I've had that since I joined DU in 2002. I tried to use that same line at another site and got kicked out for it back then and found this place, which I now call home.

Anyone with half a brain and a slight bit of knowledge of History would know that we were going to be stuck in a "Big Muddy" for a long time.

[mmonk]

39. Well I knew we were conquering them, not just removing

Saddam. So I figured we wouldn't be allowed to hang around permanently in peace.

[bklyncowgirl]

40. That was what I feared would happen. Sadly I turned out to be right.

I knew that our troops would cruise easily into Baghdad, facing only token opposition. My fear was that the people loyal to Saddam Hussein would melt back into the population and wait for their chance to strike. I also was sure that without Saddam Hussein's iron fist ready to smash down on them at a moment's notice, that the Sunnis, Shiites and Kurds would start up their age old rivalries and that the only thing that would unite them would be the hatred of our troops as an occupying power. The experiences of the U.S. in Vietnam, the Soviet Union in Afghanistan gave a pretty good indication of what would happen once the resistance movement got going.

[Marie26]

43. I thought 10 years at least

And said so. Everyone thought I was crazy.

[deutsey]

45. I thought the war could go on long enough for my sons

to be called up in a possible draft. They were 5 and 2 when the US invaded; it's looking as if my estimation was right, unfortunately.

:evilfrown:

[sutz12]

47. I'm certainly not surprised...

Once we went in, I pretty much knew there would be no clean way out. I served during the Vietnam era, though I never served in country. This is very similar.

Fact of life. It only takes one country to start a war. To end it, you need everybody who's involved's consent.