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Herman Munster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:16 PM
Original message
LA Times: Obama the 'Magic Negro'
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-ehrenstein19mar19,0,5335087.story?coll=la-opinion-center

AS EVERY CARBON-BASED life form on this planet surely knows, Barack Obama, the junior Democratic senator from Illinois, is running for president. Since making his announcement, there has been no end of commentary about him in all quarters — musing over his charisma and the prospect he offers of being the first African American to be elected to the White House. But it's clear that Obama also is running for an equally important unelected office, in the province of the popular imagination — the "Magic Negro."

The Magic Negro is a figure of postmodern folk culture, coined by snarky 20th century sociologists, to explain a cultural figure who emerged in the wake of Brown vs. Board of Education. "He has no past, he simply appears one day to help the white protagonist," reads the description on Wikipedia http://en.-wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro . He's there to assuage white "guilt" (i.e., the minimal discomfort they feel) over the role of slavery and racial segregation in American history, while replacing stereotypes of a dangerous, highly sexualized black man with a benign figure for whom interracial sexual congress holds no interest.

As might be expected, this figure is chiefly cinematic — embodied by such noted performers as Sidney Poitier, Morgan Freeman, Scatman Crothers, Michael Clarke Duncan, Will Smith and, most recently, Don Cheadle. And that's not to mention a certain basketball player whose very nickname is "Magic." Poitier really poured on the "magic" in "Lilies of the Field" (for which he won a best actor Oscar) and "To Sir, With Love" (which, along with "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner," made him a No. 1 box-office attraction). In these films, Poitier triumphs through yeoman service to his white benefactors. "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" is particularly striking in this regard, as it posits miscegenation without evoking sex. (Talk about magic!)

The same can't quite be said of Freeman in "Driving Miss Daisy," "Seven" and the seemingly endless series of films in which he plays ersatz paterfamilias to a white woman bedeviled by a serial killer. But at least he survives, unlike Crothers in "The Shining," in which psychic premonitions inspire him to rescue a white family he barely knows and get killed for his trouble. This heart-tug trope is parodied in Gus Van Sant's "Elephant." The film's sole black student at a Columbine-like high school arrives in the midst of a slaughter, helps a girl escape and is immediately gunned down. See what helping the white man gets you?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. I don't think they quite understand the archetype.
At least, I wouldn't call Poitier in "To Sir With Love" or Freeman in "Seven" to be of the "magic negro" archetype. Or the character in Van Sant's Elephant.

Certainly Will Smith in "The Legend of Bager Vance."

I don't think this guy understand's the concept.

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Xipe Totec Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Yup, the guy has his head up his ass,
is it any wonder that all he sees is black?
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. Read Post #24 before your go any further. Understand the concept before attacking the author.
Here'e rebel with a cause's excellent research and summary:

rebel with a cause (1000+ posts) Tue Mar-20-07 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
24. Before posting I did a little research on this.

Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 01:02 AM by rebel with a cause
First I read the article, but it raised more questions than answered any. I have a degree in Sociology and took many race and racism classes, but the term "Magic Negro" was not one that came to my mind easily. Perhaps my professors felt it was too outdated to dwell on it, or maybe I have just forgotten it. The term "White man/woman quilt" I know, but the definition that I know for it does not go along with how the writer used it. There is probably more than one way to define it, and I can well understand what he is saying when he uses it. The term "magical Negro" it seems surfaced in the 1950s, but I cannot find from where it came or that it was a sociological term or one from literature analysis. Here are two definitions for the term that I hope will help others understand it's meaning and whether or not Barack can be termed one. I honestly do not think he can be, but I do think this is the latest way to attack him and take away his credibility. And for those that are pointing out that this writer is African American, just remember folks like Alan Keyes is also African American and a conservative. Not all African Americans are liberals and want someone like Barack (liberal) to make it and not all caucasians are racist pigs although some of them are.

Well, anyway here is what I found and I hope this helps everyone understand the term:

From a web site called hiphopmusic.com:

In movie circles, this figure is known as a "magic Negro," a term that dates back to the late 1950s, around the time Sidney Poitier sacrifices himself to save Tony Curtis in "The Defiant Ones." Spike Lee, who satirizes the stereotype in 2000's "Bamboozled," goes even further and denounces the stereotype as the "super-duper magical Negro"
" give the black character special powers and underlying mysticism," says Todd Boyd, author of "Am I Black Enough for You?" and co-writer of the 1999 film "The Wood." "This goes all the way back to 'Gone with the Wind.' Hattie McDaniel is the emotional center, but she is just a pawn. Pawns help white people figure out what's going wrong and fix it, like Whoopi Goldberg's psychic in 'Ghost.' "

It isn't that the actors or the roles aren't likable, valuable or redemptive, but they are without interior lives. For the most part, they materialize only to rescue the better-drawn white characters....

http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2003/06 /


Description of the character

When he first encounters the (invariably white) protagonist, the Magical Negro often appears as someone uneducated and in a low station of life, such as a janitor or prisoner. The black character is depicted as wiser and spiritually deeper than the protagonist, and the purpose of the "Magical Negro" in the plot is often to help the protagonist get out of trouble, and to help the white character recognize his own faults and overcome them. The black character may literally have special powers, or he may be mysterious in a way that suggests otherworldliness.

Although it is usually a well-meaning attempt to portray a positive black character, critics like Lee, Ariel Dorfman, and Aaron McGruder believe that the use of this stock character is racist, because it perpetuates the idea that blacks should be subordinate to whites. The racial roles of the archetype are almost never reversed (lower-class white character helps a troubled black character). pragmatic whites discover their inner spirituality and brings them back in touch with nature, and the servant (of any non-white race) who sacrifices himself to save his master.

<snip>

Note that black characters with apparent supernatural powers who are portrayed as independent and not subservient to whites, such as Star Wars' Mace Windu, are not usually considered "Magical Negroes," nor are helpful non-white characters without some magical or fantastical element.

http://fav.ipedia.com/ipedia/m/ma/magical_negro.html

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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:40 AM
Response to Reply #25
33. I understand the concept.
And the author doesn't appear to.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
56. I'm afraid you don't. I was rather surprised by the knee-jerk reactions to the article.
I find it a fascinating construct.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. Alright, if you understand it and I don't...
would you mind explaining, please, how on earth Poitier fits the "magic negro" archetype in "To Sir, With Love?" He's the leading man, for fuck's sake. Or how about "Guess who's coming to dinner?"

And Gus Van Sant's "Elephant?" The character helps a girl out a window during a school shooting, tries to sneak up behind a shooter, and gets shot. How on earth is that a "magic negro" archetype?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. the author's an asshat.
a magic asshat
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. True dat!
"Magic Negro"..what's bush? The magic retard(I know that's not PC but somehow it fits bush)?
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Matariki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. ROFLMAO!
let's put an entry for 'magic asshat' on wikipedia... "a figure of postmodern folk culture... He has no grasp of reality, he simply appears to pull words out of his ass and calls it journalism..."
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. & the author of that thing is the "Magic Asshole".
They are doing everything they can to ruin Obama. The more they try, the more I like Obama.
They even have david "axis of evil/pnac" frum out there pushing the idea that Obama is a Muslim terrorist.

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buzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
11. Obama on Larry King right now FYI n/t
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. WOW! larry has him
Edited on Mon Mar-19-07 08:18 PM by zidzi
on? Surprise! larry's usually good for pickles when the gopers are having a crisis..which is every day now.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. What a moron, uses wikipedia as a source which used an ONION article!
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semillama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #5
41. um, you are aware that the AVclub isn't satirical fake news
but instead is pop culture analysis?
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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. What an ass
My fucking God.

He would have been better off writing about institutionalized racism and the fucking cost it REALLY took (Over the course of centuries) for Obama to get as far as he has in the white national mind. I'm on no band wagon as of yet as far as candidates either.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Problem is, the author defines the "Magic negro" but fails to explain how Obama is one.
Obama is Black.

I've heard of him.

"Magic Negros" are also black, and I've also heard of some of these characters.

That's about the only connex the author gives us here.

I agree with you- I would rather the author talk about actual institutionalized racism as opposed to this "clever" pop-psyco-babble.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
7. I second the wise comments of my DU brothers and sisters
but no one should be surprised given the author. :puke:
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dancingme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
58. David Ehrenstein used to be on a tirade about Kevin Spacey
years ago when Spacey won his Oscars, Ehrenstein wanted Spacey to publicly proclaim that he was gay. Spacey has always said his private life is his business. But Ehrenstein used to follow Spacey around and try to get a photo of Spacey in a compromising position. Why? Spacey is an actor who never did anything to David Ehrenstein.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Yes- and Edwards is the "Magical Red-Neck." Hillary is the "Magical Mom", etc,etc.
Edited on Mon Mar-19-07 07:22 PM by Dr Fate
Obama is indeed a Black man. Check. But "Magical powers?" Like what?

Unless saying many things that I agree with is "magic"- then I'm not even sure what the author is basing this on.

The author name-checks a lot of Black Hollywood archetypes, but he fails to explain how Obama is like these fictional characters- other than they too are black and we have also heard of them before.

How about Edwards- is he a "Magical red-neck" in the vein of Huckleberry Finn (wait- Obama must be Jim then- right?), Atticus Finch or even that nice country/Christian man who helped Swingblade get a job?

Is Clark the "Magical military man" archetype that I've seen in 100's of movies?

Who is Hillary- the "Magical mom" from Sit-coms or TV commercials who fixes whatever the clueless males messed up?

I dont see the point of comparing these characters to Obama or anyone else- not that the author ever actually even made valid comparisons.
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benny05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. The LA Times has done more than one wack job on Obama
Obama will continue to get hit, especially for dumb comments he's made on other candidates, but I find the wack jobs by LAT despicable.
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Eric J in MN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
10.  "He has no past, he simply appears one day to help the white protagonist,"
I know about as much about Barack Obama's past as I do about John Edwards' past.

As a child Obama was called "Barry." Obama made Law Review at Harvard. He was a community activist in Chicago. He gave a speech against the Iraq War before it started. He defeated Alan Keyes to become a US Senator.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Guilt Schmilt..they must be
scared of Obama! Can you imagine Obama reading this and going "What?"

They really should forget about race, gender and sexual preference, and get to the matters at hand which is getting the lying, murderous, fascist regime(that includes the corporatemediawhores-which I know would write things like this about Obama!) out on their fascistass.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
15. Interesting that none of the commenters on this thread have read enough of the article to notice
that the author identifies himself as an "African American".

I actually think he has a valid point.

sw
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The article isn't really about Obama. But they missed that, too.
And the magic Negro concept is real. And apparently alive and well.

Methinks the shoe may be quite comfortable.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. There are also those who passionately defend the use of Indian "mascots" for sports teams.
I suspect there may be considerable overlap with those who can't understand the "magic negro" concept.

sw
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. Correct - the article really isn't about Obama
It's about (some) white people and their need for a "Magic Negro" in order to mitigate racism(their own and the systemic) and guilt (collective and individual) - and as a mythical foundation by which to accept black people in power/authority roles....outside the stereotypes held by(a lot )of white people.

Obama is the high profile magnet of the Magic Negro need in (some) white people and the author was simply pointing that out

The last paragraph in the article explains it perfectly.

"Like a comic-book superhero, Obama is there to help, out of the sheer goodness of a heart we need not know or understand. For as with all Magic Negroes, the less real he seems, the more desirable he becomes. If he were real, white America couldn't project all its fantasies of curative black benevolence on him."

From the Black Commentator:








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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. They read plenty of the article. They HAVE to shoot it down, since it blows their cover.
Just like when white folks call other white folks on their racism-support - there's nothing worse, to white folks, than a race-traitor (I know) - not even uppity negroes. lol!
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #17
26. why do folks always try to tell us what we're thinking and why?
often completely disregarding what we've actually said . . .

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Strange, isn't it?
It happens all the time on DU. Go figure. :eyes:

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
38. What "cover" is being blown?
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 02:22 PM by Dr Fate
So folks who think comparing Obama to hollywood fiction is a bunch of pop-culture-psycho-babble are now undercover, secret racists?

There are plenty of things that suggest one holds prejudices towards other people, but disagreeing with this article aint one of em.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #15
37. I did notice the author was black. I cant tell if he is "magical" though,
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 02:13 PM by Dr Fate
Is this what the author wants- for white folks to go around asking themselves whether black people are "magical" or not?

This author seems to want to help me by pointing out the error in my view of Obama, so I guess he is "magical" too- right?

And I dont see the valid point- where does he make his case that Obama is an uneducated, spiritually superior servant/assistant of White folks?
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
18. Oh give me a break. This is a load of crap. Magic Negro indeed.
I think someone is reading a little too deeply into things.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Please, just read the whole article. With an open mind.
I think Obama shows great promise. Can he save the world? Dunno. We'll continue this conversation over the course of the primaries. But the knee-jerk reaction denouncing the black author of the article is quite telling, no?
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pscot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. It's easy to find the mote
in the other fellow's eye while failing to notice the beam in one's own.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-19-07 11:56 PM
Response to Original message
24. Before posting I did a little research on this.
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 12:02 AM by rebel with a cause
First I read the article, but it raised more questions than answered any. I have a degree in Sociology and took many race and racism classes, but the term "Magic Negro" was not one that came to my mind easily. Perhaps my professors felt it was too outdated to dwell on it, or maybe I have just forgotten it. The term "White man/woman quilt" I know, but the definition that I know for it does not go along with how the writer used it. There is probably more than one way to define it, and I can well understand what he is saying when he uses it. The term "magical Negro" it seems surfaced in the 1950s, but I cannot find from where it came or that it was a sociological term or one from literature analysis. Here are two definitions for the term that I hope will help others understand it's meaning and whether or not Barack can be termed one. I honestly do not think he can be, but I do think this is the latest way to attack him and take away his credibility. And for those that are pointing out that this writer is African American, just remember folks like Alan Keyes is also African American and a conservative. Not all African Americans are liberals and want someone like Barack (liberal) to make it and not all caucasians are racist pigs although some of them are.

Well, anyway here is what I found and I hope this helps everyone understand the term:

From a web site called hiphopmusic.com:

In movie circles, this figure is known as a "magic Negro," a term that dates back to the late 1950s, around the time Sidney Poitier sacrifices himself to save Tony Curtis in "The Defiant Ones." Spike Lee, who satirizes the stereotype in 2000's "Bamboozled," goes even further and denounces the stereotype as the "super-duper magical Negro"
" give the black character special powers and underlying mysticism," says Todd Boyd, author of "Am I Black Enough for You?" and co-writer of the 1999 film "The Wood." "This goes all the way back to 'Gone with the Wind.' Hattie McDaniel is the emotional center, but she is just a pawn. Pawns help white people figure out what's going wrong and fix it, like Whoopi Goldberg's psychic in 'Ghost.' "

It isn't that the actors or the roles aren't likable, valuable or redemptive, but they are without interior lives. For the most part, they materialize only to rescue the better-drawn white characters....

http://www.hiphopmusic.com/2003/06/


Description of the character

When he first encounters the (invariably white) protagonist, the Magical Negro often appears as someone uneducated and in a low station of life, such as a janitor or prisoner. The black character is depicted as wiser and spiritually deeper than the protagonist, and the purpose of the "Magical Negro" in the plot is often to help the protagonist get out of trouble, and to help the white character recognize his own faults and overcome them. The black character may literally have special powers, or he may be mysterious in a way that suggests otherworldliness.

Although it is usually a well-meaning attempt to portray a positive black character, critics like Lee, Ariel Dorfman, and Aaron McGruder believe that the use of this stock character is racist, because it perpetuates the idea that blacks should be subordinate to whites. The racial roles of the archetype are almost never reversed (lower-class white character helps a troubled black character). pragmatic whites discover their inner spirituality and brings them back in touch with nature, and the servant (of any non-white race) who sacrifices himself to save his master.

<snip>

Note that black characters with apparent supernatural powers who are portrayed as independent and not subservient to whites, such as Star Wars' Mace Windu, are not usually considered "Magical Negroes," nor are helpful non-white characters without some magical or fantastical element.

http://fav.ipedia.com/ipedia/m/ma/magical_negro.html


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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
30. It's an interesting notion.
I was just somewhat taken aback in regarding Morgan Freeman's role as God in 'Bruce Almighty' and Will Smith's role as Bagger Vance in "The Legend of Bagger Vance" in this way or not, as the references you've cited discussed.

What takes me aback is that, despite enjoying both films, I wasn't really conscious (mindful?) of either Freeman's or Smith's race in either film. It wasn't that I regarded it as 'nice' that black men would be given such roles (or not) but that I've watched the movies several times and it wouldn't even occur to me to cite them as examples of race portayals in film ... because it just didn't even occur to me to even think about their race in watching either film. I find that puzzling - but even wonder if it merits my consideration. Strange.

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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #30
57. Tahiti...NOT noticing or thinking about race is a luxury reserved for WHITES ONLY.
But you know that, right? I think this DOES merit some consideration from your impressive intellectual and emotional resources.

I hope you will just think about it. And maybe read up on the concept. I'll bet you'll shift your POV.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #57
59. Interesting misread of my post.
You can take the tongue out of your cheek, now. :hi:
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #24
40. Is Bill Cosby a "magical negro"- or is he merely a sucessful Black man?
How aobut Colin Powell? John Coltrane?

Where does this stop & start- does the author really want people going around noting whether a popular, sucessful Black person is "magical" or not?

Maybe I am failing to see the point b/c I never liked any of the movies he mentions- except To Sir w/ Love, that is.

I always thought the whole point of having a black dude in that movie is b/c he could better relate to poor kids- I never saw any "magic" in it.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. I think the point of the character analysis is not that he has "magical" power
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 04:45 PM by rebel with a cause
It is that the character has no point in the story except that he helps the "white" characters, thus their part in the movie is the "magic" they bring into it by helping the white character become better due to their being there. That is why this point about Barack in my mind is a fallacy. Barack has a story, it is his story that we are a little caught up in. If elected, he is not going to "save the whites", the point of electing him would be to help the country and everyone in it, and that includes EVERYONE not just us "whities". In fact, I support him more because I hope he would have a clearer understanding of those that are poor and those that are nonwhite than your average "white man" would have, than I would support him for me and my whiteness.

The point of having Sydney Poitier in "To Sir with Love" is that a "black man" would still be looked down on and disrespected by "poor white kids". The point of the movie was that he held his head up and stayed strong no matter what they did to him, and doing so he earned their respect. By showing them that he was proud, worthy of their respect and also that he cared about them in spite of what they had done to him, they learned that perhaps they could be better people than what they always thought they were destined to be. Anyway that is my take on the movie. Did his character fit the description of the "magical Negro"? Perhaps, I would have to go back and watch the movie and do an analysis of it to voice my opinion on it.

I believe this primarily was used in literature analysis in looking at books, plays and movies. It was used to show the racist attitude of people in providing only this type of role for nonwhite people, because this type of character could also be Asian, American Indian, Middle Eastern, Indian, and Latino. It was not used in looking at people in the real world originally. Who in the real world has no story of their own. I guess you could say an African American servant would be a "magical Negro" to those that they worked for, but then any servant would be "Magical". Another example, if you went into a store every day and you saw a person there that spoke with you about your problems and they gave you advice and encouragement, and you never spoke about them and their life; and due to them your live was made better then you could say this person was your "magical" someone. But this person does have a life of their own, and they do have people that care about them and their lives. Only you are closed off from this world because either you don't care about them or they don't want you to know anything about them personally.

I could write more about this, but the book will have to wait. It would include my take on "white guilt" and the vote for Barack. ;-)
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Right- so is Bill Cosby a Magical negro? John Coltrane?The author of the article? Black DUers?
I understand the concept of the Hollywood archetype-and I agree with the part about White guilt- Obama is the "black friend" that a white moderate has so that he can say he is not racist.

Obama also appeals to the white racist who wants a Black president so that "...they cant cry that they are discriminated against anymore" These would be the same conservatives who liked Powell, Rice & Thomas for the same reasons.

I think these are real life examples, as opposed to the psycho-babble, subconscious motivations presented in this article.

Upon a second look- I do see that the article is aimed at white motivation, or white perception as opposed to Obama's actual characteristics...I'm still not buying his thesis- my objections to this article are based on the fact that Barack has none of the characteristics of a Magical Negro...but I guess all the author has to do is claim that some see him this way- and "Presto"- we have a magical Negro.

It think the whole thesis is counter productive- I dont think we need to go around walking on egg-shells, trying to determine whether we admire or support someone b/c they are "magical" or not.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #43
50. My opinion on your question...
No one who is the main character can be the "magical Negro". The "Magical Negro" is a supporting character, one without story. That is what I was trying to make clear. Bill Cosby was the main character in his show and is one in his real life. Get up to go to the bathroom while Mr. Cosby is speaking (doing his act) and you will find out there is nothing "magical" about him. John Coltrane was a jazz man and did not play a character, so I cannot see him as a "magical Negro". He might have been seen as one by leaders of bands he played in, but that does not mean that he was one. No real person is a "magical Negro" they can only be seen as one, as can people of other skin tones if others see them as such.

For me the posing of the question of Barack being a "magical Negro" is troubling only because others will/and have portrayed him as one. People who do not understand the concept of what the term really means may take these assumptions as factual and thus discount the worth of his being a candidate.

I don't know Barack well, but I have met him several times and I still support him. Do I do so because of "white guilt"? I don't think so, but who knows. I do want him to do things that will help me and others, but then he is a politician and that is his job. I also expect the same from Durbin. I haven't supported others who were non whites because I didn't think they were right for the position. In fact, I shocked politicians in 2004 when I spoke out against Gonzalez being appointed attorney general. These were Democrats and they said, "but he's Hispanic." And I told them that didn't matter, because he was dangerous.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. Right- so Barack is more like Cosby or Coltrane than Uncle Remus.
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 07:06 PM by Dr Fate
Not that he should be compared to other black people, or only black people- but that is what the author of the article seems to suggest we should do.

"Barack being a "magical Negro" is troubling only because others will/and have portrayed him as one. "

Okay we agree- I think we see eye-to-eye on this in some areas.

Barack is basically like Bill Cosby or John Coltrane then, is he not? He is the "main character", not magical, and does his own thing.

But how about on "I Spy"? (Just kidding!)

Just for fun, what about Edwards? Is he a "Magical Redneck" (see post #8 & 47) Hill?

Doc
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. I said I would not talk about other candidates
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 08:42 PM by rebel with a cause
but I will make an exception here for this one, and this is really not bad mouthing it is just for fun. Attempting to write about someone else in the same style the author wrote about Barack with a different take.

Edwards could be seen as the modern day "Ashley Wilkes". Even though Edwards says he is the "son of a mill worker", he can be seen as a Southern genteel. He is a charming pretty boy that appeals to the women just as Ashley appealed to Scarlett. Although the ladies like him, the men will not see him as a threat, because the southern gentleman Ashley (Edwards) is far different from the low life womanizer Rhett character (Bill C.)

His "butter don't melt in his mouth" speaking style takes them back to another era/time when the south society was known for its gentlemen and not its rednecks, this enables some southerners to feel better about themselves and their past. They can feel that Edwards will bring respectability back to the South after bush (for some) and Clinton (for others) has tarnished their image.

His poverty to riches rise helps them forget they are often blamed for keeping the "black man" down. They can say that if the son of a mill worker can make it, then the great grandson of a slave should be able to do so. After all, according to these people, racism ended long ago.

For those that do not like the genteel gentleman, the "son of a mill worker" still brings to mind the working man and can also bring to mind the "redneck who cleans up real nice".


:dilemma: Edited to add more comments and spelling.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #24
45. Maybe this explains
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 05:42 PM by Radical Activist
why the media and so many others accuse Obama of not having substance, rather than looking at his long public record and two books. The lack of substance charge is without merit. Perhaps they just don't want to see what's there. They would rather see a magical negro than what is really in front of them.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. Exactly.
Pointing out his charm and how people are taken by him is much more "magical" than pointing out his history of working for the underclass or that his ideas are what inspires his supporters and not his image.

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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. I agree with that too- I'm gald we are not at odds over this.
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 07:05 PM by Dr Fate
For some reason I thought we were in disagreement over this- but we are not really. I must not have read your posts carefully.

Doc
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
27. The term "Magic Negro" would apply only insofar as Obama
helps only white people or proposes to repair a white people's country. What I hear when Obama speaks is someone who claims America for everyone regardless of race, ethnicity,gender, social status etc. He is confirming that he has as much right to the national stage as any white person because he behaves as if he has that right.

If he hadn't been shot in 1968, how many people would be slapping the Magic Negro label on Martin Luther King today? He so scared white racists that some got together to have him shot, but a lot of young people condemned him back then for his non-violence.
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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:19 AM
Response to Original message
28. That sounds awesome. I want a Magic Negro! Where can I get one?
A magic Negro would make my life perfect. He'd help me meet girls, improve my golf game, and shower me with all sorts of life-affirming wisdom like "Follow you gut, man" and "Go for it!" I would love him and hug him and call him Clarence and let him eat with me right at the same table if the restaurant's not too well lit. That would totally rawck!

So where can I get one?
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
29. A hollywood reporter who can't see past the glitz of the T.V.
The "magic negro" is a creation of the entertainment age and has nothing to do with any real person. It's a white man's Hollywood creation. Obama isn't a down on his luck janitor saying "Aw Shucks sir."

Stick to stories about Paris Hilton "big guy" you are better suited for that type of journalism.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. I was thinking along those lines , too.
A lot of commentators have a solipsist world view in which they mistake their self referential visions as reality.
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lukasahero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
34. I'm trying to suss all this out
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 11:51 AM by lukasahero
The article and the responses to it, plus the literary references and rebel's excellent research.

Full disclosure: I'm white and I like Obama. I hope it's not for the reasons that the author of the article suggests but I will take his words in and consider my own motivations further. I'm also female and have already come to terms with the fact that I may find Obama more attractive as a candidate because I think he's attractive as a man. That is hardly a deciding factor but I will at least admit it's reality.

The one thing I can't quite get my head around in this thread is the negative reaction of folks to the article. Is it because they're Obama supporters? Are they trying to not sound racist? Or is it like when some men jump on women's issues threads screaming but I'm not like that? Are there really white people even here who are so afraid to look inside themselves and see that maybe we do, indeed, feel guilty for the harm our race, as a whole, has done to another? Or are we really ashamed to admit we don't?

Are people thinking this article suggests the archetype is one Obama chose? Because I don't believe that to be the case and I really don't think that's what the article is saying. The article is an indictment of whites, not a slam against blacks. And personally, I think it's valid.

That doesn't mean it's the only option. There are, I'm sure, a lot of folks - white and of color - who like Obama simply because he's good - and he is that! I'm thinking more of the people often referred to as "middle America" - that legendary (imaginary?) group who are still afraid of homosexuals, big cities, and, most of all, color. Reading the article with that in mind, is it still so easy to dismiss?

Edited because there's only 3 e's in "believe".
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. My problem with the author is that he fails to make his case.
He points out the fact that Obama is indeed a Black man- and he name-checks several fictional Hollywood archetypes.

He suggests that Obama is a "magical Negro", but fails to explain how he is one- other than he is indeed Black and we have heard of him.

Nowhere does the author actually compare anything Obama has accomplished to what these characters do in their movies. Obama HAS a past. Obama is NOT an uneducated servant, janitor, prisoner, caddy or con-man or Uncle Remus style story-teller like the fictional characters the author is trying to compare him to.

I dont have a problem with using archetypes to explain things, but you have to make your case- and the author failed to do so.

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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. Doing my research I did find another article
which I will not cite, that did attack Barack for being a "Magical Negro", that is why I have a bit of skepticism toward this article. I would also compare Barack more to Mace Windu, a part of the Jedi council (Democratic Senators/Congress). He is a part of the battle to overthrow the evil Federation(corporations and the republicans in power) and stop the Dark Side (right wingers) from taking over the world.;-) Sorry, the result of having a Star Wars fan for a son who has educated me to all the facets of the story. :)

As for "white man/woman guilt" affecting the vote for Barack, here is my take on that. What I was taught about "white guilt" is this. It is basically a person of European heritage that feels guilty for the actions of their white ancestors against those that were not white. Because of this guilt, the people with a high amount of "white guilt" would (as the old saying goes) bend over back-wards for someone who was not white. "White woman guilt" was used to describe a woman who would marry an nonwhite man, become like a slave to him and allow him to abuse her in any way he wanted. This did not mean that all men of these groups would be abusive to their wifes, it meant that women with this "guilt" allowed men to be abusive in order to make them feel like they were making up for what their ancestors did. I often wondered if I was guilty of this with my ex husband, but then I remember I fought back in the beginning of the abuse, but he did use race to wear me down after a while. So, who knows. In using the "white man guilt" theory, people would vote for Baraack because of their guilt. It would perhaps lessen their guilt, by them feeling that they were doing something to make up for what had happened or change the results of what had happened. This is not always a selfish act, in fact most people that have this type of guilt are those who really care about what has happened, even if they are misguided in their attempts to make up for it. Many say that "white bleeding heart liberals" are those that suffer from "white man guilt".

I don't think there are that many people who will admit that they/their ancestors are in any way responsible/guilty for what happened in the past to have this guilt, or even care if they do, for this to be a factor in this election. In fact, most "white" people don't think the past has anything to do with what is happening today. I think that most people will vote for who they think will be the best candidate/president and that is how it should be.

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ismnotwasm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #34
54. Mostly
The article offends me because of the lack of substance. I read a lot about race and gender and in theory, I understand the "magic negro" concept. I tend to get to beginnings and try to use historical context. Was Booker T. Washington, a "Magic Negro' for instance, or was he considered the rare exception? Or W.E.B Dubois? (As a women, Sojourner Truth didn't really count) So when a Black person stands out, (other than sports and entertainment) in our day and age whites tend to make much of it, as though it is an unusual occurrence. So it points out to me how far we haven't come. The author may have some point about whites needed a black sort of super hero--(If I'm reading correctly)but in view it would be not to assuage white guilt, but to again reaffirm white supremacy, again that rare exception.

That may be what the author is trying to say, but in the meantime, he uses a prominent Black Politician, not to mention a democrat-- one who has a chance to break though yet another layer, another barrier and gives not a nod to black men and women who have paid in blood sweat and tears so he can be where he is today. In the most realistic sense people have given their lives for Mr. Obama to be where he is today. I don't think he's there just because a bunch of white folks need any kind of Magic.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. There's much more of a case for Condi Rice being Bush's 'Magic Negro'
She's not from the moneyed political class he grew up in; she has very little background in politics; she's only really been known in connection with Bush. But she gives Bush a way of saying "look, I'm pro-African-American".

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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
44. I don't think it applies.
First of all, because many women find Obama attractive. Even the article mentions Obama looking good in a bathing suit, so he shows how Obama doesn't match the articles own definition of a sexually non-appealing magical negro.

One could point out that Obama doesn't spend a lot of time making white people feel guilty. If a black person is going to be elected President he has to be seen as someone who will address the problems of all Americans and not just African-Americans. Obama is able to do that, which is why he will be a more successful candidate than Jackson or Sharpton.
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. My "Magical Redneck" psycho-babble in post #8 works a lot better.
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 05:49 PM by Dr Fate
Edwards is the "Magical redneck"- you know, the White Southern male, who has one foot in "Gone With the Wind" syle politeness and mannerisms- but despite his cultural heritage, "Magically" manages to be progressive and tolerant in one way or the other-and helps those beneath him..

Sheriff Andy Taylor, Atticus Finch, Huckleberry Finn , Col. Saunders (Nice, genteel White man who provides chicken to all, regardless of race, color or creed!)and Bill Clinton come to mind.

Hillary? She's the "Magical mom" from sitcoms & TV commercials...

These two comparisons actually work better than labeling Obama- but we will never see them made.

My point is you can craft an archetype to fit anyone- and the author still fails to do it with Obama...
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
46. "watch me pull an electorate out of my hat!"
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Dr Fate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. Now that is some "magic" I'd like to see. n/t
n/t
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