We don't have a volunteer army.

[live love laugh]

I am watching The View and stupid Elizabeth is talking about her "friend" in Iraq who has served three tours and is perfectly happy and he should know and he tells her things are going swimmingly in Iraq and he wishes people could hear the stories of what is "actually happening." When Joy said the Iraqi soldiers are not showing up, Elizabeth said she thinks it's irresponsble of Joy to say that Iraqi soldiers aren't showing up and speaking from a friend who's actually been there she wants to investigate it. :rofl:

They moved on to talk about the troops returning for multiple tours of duty and it got to me that they didn't say that these people have no choice. They are being forced to return. Time and again, on the "news" readers tell us that soldiers are going back for three, four tours. When questioned on various shows, pundits always say the troops volunteered. Yes, the people in service now volunteered, initially. But many who are refusing to return to multiple tours of duty are being imprisoned. Those with medical limitations are being forced to go back posing a danger to themselves and others.

When will the cover up about this illegal forcing of troops to multiple tours of duty be publicly aired? Congress needs to investigate it and restore the military's original contract of volunteerism. None of them volunteered for a fake war nor did they volunteer to be volunteered.

Can you say stop-loss order boys and girls?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Actually, they did volunteer.

What's happening to them is very wrong, but they did volunteer.

You don't sign up for the military and then say, "Oh this war sucks, see ya later."

[live love laugh]

3. They volunteered but not for the length of time or type of duty they are

being forced to serve. To say they volunteered at this point is the equivalent of changing horses in midstream. They signed up for one thing, one period of time, they are being forced to do other things for much longer periods. That is not volunteering any longer.

[tammywammy]

5. I believe when you sign up for the military

It's for 8 years. Now, it could be 4 years active and 4 years inactive reserves, but it's 8 years.

You can be called up from the inactive reserves (like my co-worker), but there's not really a way to get out of it. The military has you for 8 years.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. You are correct.

[AllegroRondo]

16. Trust me, I know people who are stuck beyond their 8 year enlistment

some are on their 3rd tour right now.

Its called "stop loss" and involuntary extension. Lets say your 8 year enlistment is up in June. Wonderful, but your unit just got called up to return to Iraq in April. You have only two choices - re-enlist for enough time to cover the tour (and the shortest contract is 2 years), or get your contract involuntarily extended to the end or the Iraq tour plus 3 months. And if your unit gets stuck longer than planned, your contract is involuntarily extended longer.

Tough choice. Either way, you're going.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

21. Is the possibility of this extension made explicit when you sign the initial contract?

[AllegroRondo]

22. Its buried in the "needs of the Army" clause

A clause in every contract says that ANYTHING in the contract may be changed to fit the "needs of the Army". so they can basically do whatever they want.

[TheMightyFavog]

17. Unless you arrange for an "accident"

Like say "accidentally" crushing your foot while moving your fridge.

[stanwyck]

27. True. At least for the Marines

the Army has two year duty. But every enlistee should read the contract completely. During wartime, your service can be extended.

[Captain Hilts]

4. It's an economic draft. nt

[genie_weenie]

15. That is the key.

Depress conditions in the US enough and a twice a month paycheck, dental/medical care and housing look actractive. Then sprinkle with jingositic patriotism and the *wink-wink* acknowledgment that Double D breasted chicks will be throwing themselves at you and you have a ready made Imperial Force.

[monarch]

7. National Guard troops "volunteered" to defend

THIS country HERE, and to assist our country by doing such things as helping to fight forest fires and dealing with hurricanes. They did not volunteer to be sent overseas to fight a war of choice that has nothing to do with defending our country.

[havocmom]

19. Absolutely!

And America is LESS SAFE with them deployed where they were never meant to be.

This malAdministration has misused the guard to avoid the hell a draft would incite. Deploying the Guard is SUPPOSED to be the very last ace up the Pentagon's sleeve in time of war.

This malAdministration has removed thousands of FIRST RESPONDERS from small communities by continually re-calling reservists to avoid the need for a draft to support their holding troops for ransom.

America is now broke and vulnerable at a time the malAdministration policies have assured us generations of future terrorists because of policies to enrich cronies in oil and arms sales.

There is NO punishment sever enough for the junta, but they will go merrily along prosecuting troops who have had enough abuse and refuse more.

[Jackeen]

29. As a Guardsman, I rather disagree with that one.

If I wanted to do my community service just by fighting forest fires or dealing with hurricanes, I'd have joined the Volunteer Fire Department. I signed on to drive tanks, which, last I checked, has pretty much no bearing on the domestic scene. Back in 2000, when I joined up, I fully expected to be deployed abroad at some point, though I must admit I was more expecting something like a Bosnia rotation at the time, as opposed to the Iraq jaunt which I actually went on.

I should add that I also intend to stay in the Guard until they force me to retire, even though return trips are quite likely. Of the other fifteen people in my Iraq platoon, only one has chosen to get out, five re-enlisted at the end of our tour when we were still in theatre but packing to leave, two have re-enlisted after our return, and the others haven't hit their ETS dates yet. That's a pretty good retention rate for a bunch of people who are supposedly feeling abused.

[krispos42]

11. They did not volunteer to be abused

Now, I do understand that in a war of survival, such niceties of complete training, full loads of equipment, and a full break between deployments may go by the wayside pretty quickly.

But this is a war of choice. There is absolutely no reason we can not have all of the above. Our elected (Republican) leaders have chosen to not purchase enough equipment, to not mobilize the economy enough for war production, and put too many soldiers than can be adequetely rotated in and out on the long term.

Therefore, they are abusing the soldiers. Not only are the soldiers paying in blood for an unneeded, poorly planned, and poorly executed war and occupation, but they are being abused so that politicians don't have to institute a draft or raise taxes.

The shafting of injured soldiers is just icing on the abuse cake.

[Horse with no Name]

13. You also have to understand that some

(including my brother) enlisted when we had sane leadership.
They didn't vote for this pos nor did they volunteer to serve under him.

[LynnTheDem]

14. They most certainly did not volunteer to be sent without proper equipment,

without proper food, without clean water, to an illegal INVASION of a sovereign nation that hadn't been doing one damn thing against anyone.

No, they never volunteered for that.

[MadMaddie]

2. Thanks for watching I can't watch the show because of Elisabeth

and her Facist tendacies.

Welcome to DU!:hi:

[TahitiNut]

8. A 'tour' (in the Army) is 12 months.

There are regulations requiring an interval between tours in a combat zone ... currently that's at least a month (afaik) but it's under consideration (in legislation?) to increase the minimum interval. (It's a question of "readiness.")

Tours are cut short for a variety of reasons, including the scheduled end of a unit deployment. Since the Iraq occupation has only(?) been four years, I find the 'happy claims' of "four tours" highly exaggerated.

PS: This is not to say I disagree about the coercive service. "Stop loss" and playing games with the regulations is rampant.

[sanskritwarrior]

9. Marine Corps tours are 6 months

Air force tours are 4 months or 6 months and you can get credit for a short tour (In the Army) 90 days......I have 2 normal tours in Iraq a year a piece and one short tour to Afghanistan I am authorized to wear all ribbons and medals associated with the unit I supported in the short tour........

[TahitiNut]

12. I did a 'tour' in Viet Nam.

In no way do I suggest that troops aren't entitled to recognition for service in a combat zone. Indeed, that recognition should and does include star devices on campaign service ribbons.

I am merely stating that the use of 'tour' as some unit of measurement leaves the door open for hyperbole. No hyperbole is needed when making reference to the abuses of our military service personnel in over-extending them and failing to support them both during their service and afterward. The facts, without any spin or hyperbole, are damning enough.

My 'tour' in Viet Nam lasted 10 1/2 months. The 'standard' was a year in the Army and 13 months in the Marine Corps. There were many reasons (too numerous for me to catalog) for 'tours' to be cut short or extended. The more things change the more they stay the same.

[stanwyck]

25. Actually, my son's tours (he's on his third)

have been eight months. And the rumor right now is he won't be returning in July but in October. I hope that's not true.

[sanskritwarrior]

28. Depends on the unit and MOS

I was generalizing.......Some Air Force do 6 months, some do 4, some Marines do 6, some 8, a few do 12, some Army do 6 months, most do 12, a few do 15.........

[Nutmegger]

10. The poverty draft is alive and well. [n\t]

[LSK]

18. The ISG Report says the Iraqi soldiers are not showing up

[Sammy Pepys]

20. We have a professional Army

...and because it is a professional Army it carries certain responsibilities just as any other job.

[dysfunctional press]

23. until the media and the democrats grow some balls- we are fucked.

we're all alone against these monsters.

[NNN0LHI]

24. Since 2001 the so-called "stop-loss" policy has affected about 22,000 service members

That is less than 4000 a year. Somebody must be volunteering out there.

Don

[AllegroRondo]

26. as my First Sergeant used to say

"I cant make you volunteer, but I can sure make you wish you had."