People here seem to respect Cindy Sheehan yet they

[blues90]

Continue to feel the politicians dem or a few repugs will somehow save them from the bush madness . People talk about the 2008 elections , tv talk shows even right wing tv talk shows and get all hyped up raving about how Alberto may be taken down even the the extent of trying to predict what day he will be removed .

I feel Sheehan has the right idea and many people miss the point . Which is it's the protests and the people who will have to stop the madness not whether Alberto G is outted or who may win the presidential seat in 2008 . While this is going on the killing goes on .

People seem to think that the admin is somehow frozen in place while they do continue their master plans of never ending war .

[Dhalgren]

1. You're right. It isn't an anti-Republican thing, it isn't a pro-Democratic thing,

it's an anti-war thing, a pro-peace thing. I don't care who the politician is, if they aren't working to end the war right now, they are part if the problem...

[BayCityProgressive]

3. any politician

who isn't for immediate peace and social justice needs to get the fuck out of the way..the movement is growing and by this summer it will EXLPODE. over the last week alone hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets and THOUSANDS of protests and encampments, civil disobedience ect took place...the people WILL NOT wait for the Democratic Party to grow a god damned spine..they can either join us or get the hell out of the way!

[cali]

2. And I feel you're wrong.

We can't get to the bottom of the wretched, illegal, immoral and putrid machinations of bushco; only the dems in the House and Senate can. We can't hold hearings or investigation and we don't have subpoena power. They do. And that's why I have more faith in Pat Leahy and Henry Waxman, ultimately, than I do in Medea Benjamin and Cindy Sheehan.

[blues90]

4. If I'm wrong then so is Sheehan

The dems don't need to do more than stop this war now and as far as impeachment goes all they have to do is bring out the tons of evidence the Iraq war was an illegal war . They don;t need to dig up the last 6 years of lies in order to do this but then impeachment is off the table .

[cali]

6. Sorry, i've long seen Sheehan as irrelevant to

the issues that confront us. The only people listening to her now, or those already in her corner, and as I said, she can't hold hearings or compel testimony. And there isn't proof that Iraq was an illegal war. I believe firmly that it was, but that's not the same as the type of evidence you need for impeachment.

[ends_dont_justify]

7. Why do people always take extreme views?

Alone for the past few days I've seen attitudes reflecting polar opposites -- a disagreement meaning you disagree with EVERYTHING, an agreement meaning you're on a 'side'. What is this? Why can't people just hold opinions and have gray areas?

As for the topic at hand...I think you're both right. We need to rely on politicians because millions more people than us have put a system into place which relies on them. Yet if more people stood up and demonstrated ways to help, that prove to help, more would help. We need a strong leader who isn't just a good speaker....someone with a plan. I think before either side criticizes, they need to show who has a workable plan...otherwise why argue? We're gonna lose anyway if nobody does anything. Getting arrested for protesting won't stop them...nor will idly listening to pandering of either sides' politicians.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

8. That's Just Simply Not True. You Can Be Wrong Just On Your Own Merits.

In this case, I think a multi-pronged front is perfectly fine. Sheehan's anti-war protests absolutely carry value but it's not either or here. The fact is what the Dem's are doing carries tremendous value as well. So in that sense, they can both be right in what they're doing in their own ways.

You, however, can still absolutely be wrong on your seeming insinuation that only what Cindy's doing matters and that what the Dem's are doing is useless. Not just wrong in my opinion, but extremely short-sighted and of limited thinking.

So I hope you can see that you can be wrong without Cindy having to be wrong (unless you're Cindy, which I doubt highly).

[blues90]

10. What I was comparing here was Cindy does not have much faith in

Politics as I don't . I know we need good and honest leadership , I am not discounting this .

However when I look at the leadership we have had for the past 40 years and consider all the powerful lobbying groups who have for the most part shaped this nation to fit in their hands and not the peoples hands then I have to consider politics as we know as a complete failure as well as the people in this country who vote for incompetence and buy into lies so easily .

An uninformed population is where Cindy as well as liberal talk radio and the vast web sites of info based on truth come into play as do the protests .

Now comes the politics , many dems are corrupt , they sat on idle and passed all the criminals we have now in the executive branch and the supreme court . They could have voted no but instead went along and I still can't imagine why unless they are part of the problem . They too find their funds from the same lobby's .

As everyone knows money is what buys the position not fairness and truth so this is why I will put the people first and foremost as the deciding factor .

As an example , simply because we are told these are your candidates , they are presented to you by the funds they have gathered . Now lets say all the candidates are not a good choice , carry past baggage , what ever the case , there is doubt lingering about their intent and honesty .

Now we are told the voting day has arrived , we are told we must vote even though many of us hold our noses then why not let the people decide and say , NO , we will vote when a better set is presented and not until then , bring on the next set of candidates .

We are trapped in a system that simply does not work for the majority or even half of the people .

Look what happened in 2001 and in 2003 , we suddenly were the people for a war , many of us were not for this war . We protested it and many other nations joined in these protests , however here we are now protesting to get out of this occupation , we have an insane patriot act and homeland security , both that never existed before this administration .

It was the fear after 9/11 and it is still the fear today that keeps the majority of the population strapped to supporting a system that does not work . I have been hearing about campaign financing reform for as long as I can recall and still it's completely out of control . What is it now , each candidate needs 100 million in order to be in the running . tell me this is not insanity and completely outside or the goal and reality . I will stick with the people who protest and Cindy and hope this has the effect we need , if this does not work get ready for 2009 to become just what we have had for the past 40 years .

[mondo joe]

5. I respect Cindy and I think she's done good. But what she's doing won't cut it.

We need Congress and we need votes there.

As tragic as the war is, restoring congressional oversite and winning campaigns is what will matter most in the long run.

[MazeRat7]

9. To achieve a goal, you need both vision and execution...

Cindy certainly has the vision, but she does not have the execution.

A "great" leader would recognize this and successfully co opt those needed to achieve a specific goal.

I can only hope Cindy recognizes her limitations and actively enlists the strengths of others (who are on her side) to end this war.

MZr7