Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

U.S. eyes 'surge' of over 20,000 for Afghanistan

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:43 PM
Original message
U.S. eyes 'surge' of over 20,000 for Afghanistan
http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=462772

"The Pentagon is considering a plan to send more than 20,000 troops to Afghanistan over the next 12 to 18 months to help safeguard elections and quell rising Taliban violence, officials said Friday.

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said he and top commanders had discussed sending five brigades to Afghanistan, including four brigades of combat ground forces as well as an aviation brigade, which a defense official said would consist mainly of support troops. An Army combat brigade has about 3,500 soldiers.

Gates said much of the infusion could take place before Afghanistan holds elections by next autumn.

"I think it's important that we have a surge of forces before the election," said Gates, who stressed no decision on troop deployments had been taken..."


http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/3/1649-surge-and-destroy-or-the-dangling-participle-of-presidential-power.html

"...And how are Aghan women enjoying the fruits of their liberation? The Guardian reports on the treatment meted out to Afghan women's rights champion, MP Shukria Barakzai -- by members of the liberated government installed by the liberators themselves:

The Afghan MP Shukria Barakzai receives regular death threats for speaking out on women's issues....Barakzai receives frequent but cryptic warnings about planned suicide attacks on her car, but no help from the government. Officials advise her to stay at home and not go to work, but offer nothing in the way of security assistance, despite her requests. She said warlords in parliament who received similar threats were immediately provided with armoured vehicles, armed guards and a safe house by the government.

"Our parliament is a collection of lords," said Barakzai. "Warlords, drug lords, crime lords."

....According to Afghan commentators, President Hamid Karzai, desperate to win next year's elections, has been bringing former mujahideen commanders into parliament in the hope they will support him at election time. Most of these former jihadi commanders share the Taliban's ideas about women and are expected to support legislation that will once again limit women's freedom..."





Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. There is no cure for congenital stupidity.
And we have a bad case here.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Very true :( n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Obama is WRONG on Afghanistan.
We need to get the fuck out of there, too - and stop bombing wedding parties.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I agree with you, not sure that counts for much. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 10:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. oh HELL NO..n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Out of Iraq and into Afghanistan :( n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amitta Donating Member (50 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:04 PM
Response to Original message
7. this is the change Obama talked about
change of location of endless war against fictional enemies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Unfortunately yes n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
8. kick because obama is wrong on this issue n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:10 PM
Response to Original message
9. No!
very bad thinking
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. kick
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Thanks for the kicks :) n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. and obama has chose to keep gates on....bad all around
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 11:25 PM by Mari333
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. FROM FRYING PAN TO FIRE? Guest Columnists Warn Obama About Escalating in Afghanistan
http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003896090

"By Greg Mitchell

Published: November 25, 2008 12:05 PM ET

NEW YORK (Commentary) Out of the frying pan into the fire? In his race for the White House, Barack Obama called long and often for sending many more troops to Afghanistan (even before we withdraw quite a few from Iraq). It was a required thing to say on the campaign trail to show toughness and also to make the politically winning point that President Bush had fought the wrong war, in Iraq, when we had not yet cleaned out Afghanistan.

Did he really mean it? If so, is it really the right thing to do, especially with our chief national security threat now coming from within – in the form of our economic crisis?

The New York Times today presents a host of op-eds on Iraq and Afghanistan, including one from a guy named Rumsfeld and another from someone called Chalabi. The ones related to the Afghan conflict should raise questions for readers, and I hope, the Obama team. Just this morning, the Karzai government revealed that Obama had called the nation's leader and pledged to increase U.S. support. The NATO commander wants to nearly double troop strength there...

...Nearly everyone in the media, and on the political stage, still calls this the “good war.” Obama has even said “we must win” there. But it’s the same question we have faced in Iraq: What does he define as “winning”?


...Few voices in the mainstream media – and even in the liberal blogosphere – have tackled this subject, partly because of long arguing for the need to fight the “good war” as opposed to the “bad war.” But now some very respected commentators – with impeccable pro-military credentials – are starting to sound off on the dangers..."



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Afghanistan: Not a Good War Gone Bad
Edited on Tue Nov-25-08 11:37 PM by G_j
http://www.counterpunch.org/everest10172008.html

October 17 / 20, 2008

A War for Empire

Afghanistan: Not a Good War Gone Bad

By LARRY EVEREST

<snip>

One thing that’s not been up for debate in the Presidential campaign is Afghanistan: both candidates (not to mention George W. Bush) agree on the urgent need to escalate – and win – that war. This stance has overwhelmingly gone unchallenged – even by most who opposed the invasion of Iraq. But the war in Afghanistan is not the proverbial "good war," now gone bad. It was an unjust, imperialist war of conquest and empire from the start. And it continues to be an unjust, imperialist war of empire today.

The war in Afghanistan was never simply a response to 9/11. It was conceived of by the Bush administration as the opening salvo in an unbounded war for greater empire under the rubric of a "war on terror." This war’s goal was to defeat Islamic fundamentalism, overthrow states not fully under U.S. control, restructure the Middle East and Central Asian regions, and seize deeper control of key sources and shipment routes of strategic energy supplies. All this grew out of over a decade of imperialist planning, strategizing and intervention. And from the beginning all of it was part of an overall plan to expand and fortify U.S. power—to create an unchallenged and unchallengeable global imperialist empire.

All this is shown by what the U.S. rulers were doing—and planning—in these regions and globally during the decade of the 1990s, including in Afghanistan itself. It can be shown by the plans the U.S. had for destabilizing, perhaps overthrowing, the Taliban government of Afghanistan even before 9/11. It can be demonstrated by the actual discussions and decisions taken by the Bush regime in the immediate aftermath of 9/11, and by the U.S.’s war objectives in Afghanistan and the Middle East as a whole, which it is still pursuing. And it can be shown by the U.S.’s conduct of the war and the impact it has had on the people of Afghanistan.

1990s: A Decade of Planning and Strategizing for Greater Empire

The "war on terror" and the invasion of Afghanistan emerged from a decade of planning, strategizing, and struggle among the U.S. rulers over how to expand and strengthen their grip on the planet.
The 1991 collapse of the social-imperialist Soviet Union was a geopolitical earthquake. Suddenly the U.S. rulers found themselves no longer facing a rival nuclear-armed, imperialist empire. They called it a unique "unipolar moment," where the U.S. faced no major rivals to its global pre-eminence. But in the wake of the Soviet collapse, they faced new and daunting challenges—the possible rise of new rivals (Russia, China, the European Union or some combination thereof), massive economic shifts brought about by the Soviet bloc’s collapse and the acceleration of capitalist globalization, destabilizing problems in the oil-rich Middle East, the proliferation of nuclear weapons, and a growing number of impoverished, war-torn, or fragmented states (so-called "failed states") whose collapse could unravel the U.S.-dominated global order.

..more..

***********************

Afghans to Obama: End the Occupation
Transcript: Radio interview with Eman, Member of the Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan (RAWA).


http://uprisingradio.org/home/?p=4351
http://www.rawa.org/index.php


Accused of killing 65 Afghans in yet another wedding party massacre last week, US military officials are now claiming that they have evidence of the Taliban holding the party hostage to lure US forces into killing the civilians and stoking more anti-American sentiment. The accusation came from an anonymous US official who declined to share the evidence for the claim. According to Afghan officials, a joint investigation with the US found 37 civilians and 26 so-called insurgents were killed in the Kandahar village. Inexplicably the U.S. figure from the same investigation was 20 dead civilians. Afghan president Hamid Karzai has repeatedly denounced the civilian deaths and urged the US to stop relying so much on air strikes. The same week as the wedding party killings, US airstrikes killed 7 civilians in the Northwest province of Baghdis. Among them were two sons and a grandson of a provincial council member, Mohammad Tawakil Khan. Mourning his loss, Khan remarked bitterly, "The! Americans are hitting civilian houses all the time. They don't care, they just say it was a mistake… Afghan officials are only offering their condolences. After some 100 times that they have killed civilians, we have to take revenge and afterward say our condolences to them." The civilian death toll has stoked anger across Afghanistan and raised increasing calls for an end to the occupation. However, President elect Barack Obama's foreign policy centerpiece was an increase in US troops to Afghanistan.


Sonali Kolhatkar: Many on the American left are celebrating the election of Barack Obama to the presidency of the US. But while he has pledged to end the Iraq war, he has also promised to increase troops in Afghanistan.
What is your opinion of Barack Obama and his stated policy on Afghanistan?

Eman: We can easily judge Obama from what he said in one of his recent interviews that he does not feel the need to apologize to the Afghan people. We do not consider this a lack of information. But didn’t he feel the need to apologize for the wrong policies of the US government for the past three decades in our country? Didn’t he feel the need to apologize for the fundamentalist-fostering policies of the US government in creating, arming, and supporting these brutal, misogynist groups like the Northern Alliance and other fascist groups during the past three decades? Didn’t he feel the need to apologize for the occupation of our country under the banner of democracy, the so-called “war on terror,” and women’s rights, but then compromise with terrorists like the Northern Alliance, who cannot be distinguished from the Taliban in the history of their criminal acts? In fact these murderers were the first to destroy our nation. And even after seven years o! f a very long and very costly “war on terror,” terrorism has not been uprooted in Afghanistan but has become stronger and the Taliban are becoming more powerful. Plus recently talking about negotiating with the most wanted terrorist, Gulbuddin Hekmatyar, and with the Taliban, which is in contradiction with what they claimed and what their main objective was in occupying Afghanistan.

..more..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:34 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. bookmarked n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. Appreciate the additional links n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Obama National Security team...
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1108/15986.html

"Defense Secretary Robert Gates has agreed to stay on under President-elect Barack Obama, according to officials in both parties. Obama plans to announce a national-security team early next week that includes Gates at the Pentagon and Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.) as secretary of state, officials said.

Retired Marine Gen. James Jones, former Marine commandant and commander of U.S. and NATO forces in Europe, will be named national security adviser, the officials said...

Democrats familiar with the national-security event early next week said they also expect James Steinberg, who was deputy national security adviser in the Clinton administration, to be named deputy secretary of State; Susan Rice, Obama’s senior foreign policy adviser on the campaign, to be named U.S. ambassador to the United Nations; and retired Adm. Dennis Blair, the former commander-in-chief of the U.S. Pacific Command and a veteran of the NSC, Central Intelligence Agency and Joint Chiefs of Staff, to be named the director of national intelligence.

Tom Donilon, an assistant secretary of state for public affairs and chief of staff at the U.S. Department of State during the Clinton administration, is a leading candidate to be Jones’ deputy at the NSC, officials said...

...Gates will not have to be reconfirmed, ofificials said."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. another BAD PICK
you know,i protested in chicago in 1998 when clinton was holding iraq hostage with sanctions. i was angry at clinton when he backed DOMA, and when he backed welfare to work, and when he and hillary went spineless over universal health care.
if obama pulls the same crap that clinton did , i will protest his policies also.
i was sick of the bush policies and i had to vote for obama, but i swear if he starts playing republican lite i will never vote for a dem again unless they act like dems. i will vote 3rd party. at least then i can live with myself.
we shall see.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. The two party system sure does have a hold on the people, not
sure what will bring about a change. It is not as if the Afghanistan surge is new, we knew about it beforehand. Thanks for your prior protests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. maybe i was in denial
and hoping that obama was hinting at the afghanistan surge just to get elected. i was hoping he would then do an about face and decide it is an unnecessary occupation.
i can see hes being run by people who seem to have a great deal to lose($) if we end these occupations.
maybe he will do a turn around. one can only hope. so far this does not bode well.
the poor troops. damn.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. Well only one of two people had a chance on 11/4and you cannot
agree on every point, only thing we can do now is write and call.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. James L. Jones - National Security Advisor ???
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_L._Jones

Political speculation

In June 2008, MSNBC's First Read reported that General Jones was among those being discussed with Senators and Representatives by the vetting team of Senator Barack Obama as a possible Vice Presidential candidate.<22> Gen. Jones recently appeared with McCain, effectively quashing rumors of an Obama-Jones ticket.<23> During the final debate between Obama and McCain, Obama mentioned Jones as one of the people he would "surround" himself with in regards to national security matters, creating speculation of a possible cabinet position for Jones. As of November 20, reports have surfaced that indicate Jones will be nominated as Obama's national security advisor.<24><25> General James Jones is announced to be the next National Security Advisor. General Jones will be the second US Marine (after Robert McFarlane) to hold this office.<26>

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-25-08 11:59 PM
Response to Original message
24. Did some people suddenly get stupid? Obama said he was going to do this during the debates.
As the troops withdraw from Iraq, Obama said in no uncertain terms he would *SIGNIFICANTLY* increase the US troop presence in Afghanistan to go after Bin Laden. Four or five brigades worth, which is, ta da, about 20000 soldiers.

What is "Mission Accomplished" in Afghanistan? Capturing or killing Bin Laden. Also, going into Pakistan and striking Al Qaeda targets there if needed in the larger framework of attacking Bin Laden.

Once that happens, the US can begin leaving.

I hope people aren't acting like this is some sort of revelation. He's been saying this since the first Democratic debates last year.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mari333 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 12:02 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. yes, and i disagreed with him then
Edited on Wed Nov-26-08 12:05 AM by Mari333
but i voted for him because i had to get rid of mcbush. now i will continue to disagree with obama on some issues.

and the real mission in afghanistan is to protect the OIL pipelines. for the corporate masters.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=115&topic_id=171417
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
G_j Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 12:12 AM
Response to Reply #24
26. he was wrong then, also. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
28. From one lost war to another. Brilliant! And, next, Pakistan!
By that time, we'll be scrounging for potato peels and burning worthless dollars for warmth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. This was not unknown, still not easy to read :( n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
30. Oh noes, the closet DU Naderite brigade is going to be apoplectic
This was Obama's position in the primaries, this is his position now, and I agree with him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Nov-26-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Thanks for the kick, yes it was his position duing the primaries
so there is no real surprise.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun Nov 03rd 2024, 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC