Experts on Abortion

[BayCityProgressive]

So a friend of mine very recently had an abortion. She was 8 weeks along. She said she met many others girls in their 20's there and that some were 14-16 weeks along. She was all worried that her fetus or theirs could feel pain and someone told her they could. Is this true? I am pro-choice but honestly don't know much about the specifics. I would like to find some facts for her so that she isn't depressed and stressing over this. Thanks DUers!

[berni_mccoy]

1. A fetus can respond to light and sound, so if a fetus's nerves are that

far developed, then it stands to reason they can feel pain as well. At what age they can, I have no idea.

The focus of the pro-choice stance is that abortion should not be legislated because when it is, it causes more problems and the practice isn't stopped anyway.

The way to reduce abortions is to improve education, health-care and social programs that give women viable alternative choices to abortion. Right now they do not have alternatives. Conservatives would force a woman to have a baby even though she has no means to care for it, can't give it health care, can't get it adopted (majority of people want white babies, largest number of abortions occur in minorities), doesn't want to abandon it. Conservatives want to take away sex ed. programs that promote birth control and force people to use only abstinence. And then Conservatives would further reduce those programs that do give marginal aide to some. Conservatives can't have it both ways and can't see the real way to reduce the abortion rate.

[monarch]

2. I'm no expert but it seems to me that

circumcisions are still being done (or they were very recently) without anesthesia because
the "experts" were sure that newborns did not feel pain. Maybe somebody could
elaborate on that.

[BonnieJW]

3. I think

anesthesia (topical) is offered if the parents choose. At Jewish ceremonies, wine is given to the baby. It's very mild and gentle. I have been at these ceremonies and the crying is quite brief.

[sharp_stick]

4. Oh for the love of God n/t

[Horse with no Name]

12. We use locally injected xylocaine

It is injected in several places. We also use what we call a "sugar nipple" which is high dose of sugar that releases the endorphins.
The babies sleep through the procedure.
In fact, they cry more during their bath than they do their circumcision.

[verse18]

5. Everyone is so concerned about a fetus feeling pain.

What about the pain a child will feel growing up unwanted and possibly mistreated? If you are not emotionally, mentally and financially prepared to have a child, you are not going to do that child any good by bringing it into the world.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

6. 28th week? Here's two links

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/dec/fetus-feel-pain
This says 28 weeks

This says final months but one researcher says second trimester.

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/ap_050824_fetus_pain.html

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Here is the resource your friend and you need.

http://www.visembryo.com/baby/22.html

The first link is for 8 weeks. You can then move forward into the 14 to 16 weeks, which are in the 2nd. trisemester.

[wicket]

8. From the Journal of the American Medical Association

LINK

Conclusions: Evidence regarding the capacity for fetal pain is limited but indicates that fetal perception of pain is unlikely before the third trimester. Little or no evidence addresses the effectiveness of direct fetal anesthetic or analgesic techniques. Similarly, limited or no data exist on the safety of such techniques for pregnant women in the context of abortion. Anesthetic techniques currently used during fetal surgery are not directly applicable to abortion procedures.

[BayCityProgressive]

9. Thank you all!

[wicket]

14. No problem!

:hi:

[knitter4democracy]

10. That's the one I remember reading.

It was a meta-analysis study, if I remember right, that looked at all the studies they could find, and the reality is, the nerves aren't all connected until the third trimester. The brain and spinal cord are there, but not all the nerves are connected to them yet.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

11. "Some time between the 9th and 28th weeks, probably", is as good an answer as there is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_pain has a list of different studies with different conclusions.

One thing worth noting is that a lot of them seem to express the opinion that foetus can *respond* to harmful stimuli from a relatively early stage; the controversy is over whether or not they actually experience them, and the answer appears to be "probably not until much later, but we're not sure".

[Samurai_Writer]

13. According to this article in JAMA, they don't feel pain until 30 weeks

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/short/294/8/947

Send that to her. It should answer her questions.

[LeftishBrit]

15. As far as I know...

it is likely that the brain mechanisms for pain perception develop at around 26 weeks gestation. It could be that some pain perception is present a little earlier, and therefore when doctors perform abortions at or after 22 weeks, they generally take steps to ensure that the fetus cannot feel pain. Also very premature babies are generally treated nowadays with the assumption that they do need analgesia during painful procedures, even if they are less than 26 weeks gestation. However, it's considered very unlikely that fetuses can feel pain before 22 weeks.