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Attention Nancy Pelosi, et. al.: PLEASE WAKE UP!

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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:55 AM
Original message
Attention Nancy Pelosi, et. al.: PLEASE WAKE UP!
The American people sent an unmistakable message to Congress last November: BRING THE TROOPS HOME FROM IRAQ! We're sick and tired of this illegal and immoral war, and sick and tired of the Rubber Stamp Congress we endured for 6 years. We the people didn't vote Dems into office and Repukes out of office because they like you or Dems in particular, we did it because we're mad as hell and won't take it any more.

I despise the Rovian term "micromanage the war" as much as you or anyone else does, because it insults the intelligence, and belittles your meager efforts to try to reason with George Bush. You CAN'T reason with fanatics, Nancy. You should know this by now.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to grasp the game Rove is playing. The fact that once Congress authorized this insane war based on lies in October, 2002 with the Iraq War Resolution, and since Congress has continued to pass legislation every year funding this fiasco to the tune of about $500 Billion to date, Congress has given Bush as Commander In Chief full authority under the Constitution to wage this war in any manner he chooses. Congress has no authority to "micromanage" Bush's decisions at this level, whether it be to better train the troops, or tell him he can't send more troops there as part of a war strategy. That trespasses on the authority of the Commander In Chief and would be declared unconstitutional if taken to the Supreme Court.

All Congress can do is declare war or rescind a declaration of war and either fund or cut off funding for the war.

You have two obligations to the American people in this respect and to date you don't seem to understand either the moral imperative or the limits of your own power. You *must* pass binding legislation rescinding the Iraq War Resolution. You *must also* pass binding legislation cutting off *all* funding for the Iraq War, and only funding the war in Afghanistan. Those are the only powers Congress possesses, and failure to exercise them is an endorsement of Bush's policies.

So you say the Democrats don't have the votes to override a veto in the Senate? So damned what! The House *must* pass this legislation NOW, send it to the Senate, and if it doesn't pass in the Senate, reintroduce it again in a week or two and keep doing that, putting pressure on the Senate in the media constantly until enough Republicans decide to distance themselves from the uproar and vote with the Democrats. Eventually, there should be enough votes to overcome a Presidential veto, and until there is, you have at the very least created a constitutional crisis that may stir even more Americans to action to put pressure on their Republican Senators.

The time is NOW! Already 2 months have passed since the Democrats took over Congress, and already an additional 200 American soldiers have died in Iraq. The Democrats now share with the Republicans the blood on their hands of those dead soldiers, and countless dead innocent Iraqis.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
1. psst
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thanks for the great link!
Yes, the cost of this war far exceeds the money specifically authorized by Congress every year.

There is so much that needs to be done with that money elsewhere.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. yea, that money could do alot of good inside of the US.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
2. But...but...but...what if they call us names?
:eyes:

Great rant. Thanks.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
3. You are aware it took over three yaers to rescing the authorization
for war during the Vietnam War

And we had far better numbers.

Look, the parlamentairy moves that will lead to that ulimate objective have started, but you do not give the game away

And as is... they had the money authorized by the 109th congress

I hate to say it, but people need to do two things

1.- Read the hsitory of the US Congress (To their chagin they will find that when it works, molassses move faster, and that was by design)

2.- Have a little patience

They are moving as fast as they can. And I know that is hard at times to comprehend.
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I'm all out of "patience".
A sign a protester carried this week says it all for me: "I can't believe I'm still having to protest this shit!"

My patience expired with the invasion four years ago. I refuse to falsely adopt a patient "attitude" for anyone.

And how do you arrive at your conclusion that it "took over three years" for Congress to rescind the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution? You could say it took a day, or you could say it took 10 years, take your pick. Just don't be so arbitrary.

The House could introduce legislation rescinding the IWR TODAY and cutting off all funding TODAY. Every day they stall they are violating their oaths of office by ignoring the will of the people. And every day more and more people die in Iraq, and the Democrats now share the stain of blood on their hands with the Republicans and the Bush administration.


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Well reality is we should not be protesting this shit
if we learned our lesson from Nam, but the lesson was erased by Iran Contra

But if you want this to move faster than it is moving, good luck

Of course there is an alternative, and one that is less than palatable to me since I know exactly what that means... and it is to abandon the in system ways and go to revolution... that is the only way to force things to move faster, assuming you win of course.

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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I haven't the foggiest idea what you're talking about.
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 01:07 PM by Seabiscuit
"We should not be protesting this shit"????????????

"if we learned our lesson from Nam"??????????????

"but the lesson was erased by Iran Contra"??????????

"good luck"???????????????????

Look we dreamed of "revolution" during the Vietnam era as well, but at least we recognized it as just a dream - we realized it somewhat in terms of a cultural revolution, but no one ever seriously imagined we could physically overthrow the government. Unless, of course they were just plain crazy or so whacked out on speed or worse that their brains were fried.

No, the government in D.C. is not going to go away, and no one's going to overthrow it in any kind of "revolution". We have to deal with it realistically.

Thus my rant. Simply demanding that Congress obey its duty under the U.S. Constitution. Rescind the IWR. Cut off the funding. NOW. We've waited four long years for nothing but more bloodshed and more chaos and more bankrupting of the U.S. Treasury.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ok let me put it to you i realistic terms
we don't have the votes

They have started on the road to defund.

But repeat after me, we don't have the votes, chelfly in the Senate

What do you think the Non binding resolution was about and why the repubs foguht it tooth and nail?

Now the vote picture may well change as the elections get closer and pubbies decide they'd rather keep a job than defend their President.

Yes, it is, unfortuanlely, that simple

And horse trading and vote converting TAKES TIME

Now your job and mine is to keep protesting this shit... and putting pressure, especially on blue dog democrats (mine for example) and republicans
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. My OP already addressed the fact that we don't have the votes in the Senate.
My solution is NOT to wait until some magical day arrives, but to force the issue in the public consciousness by vigorous re-introduction of the legislation until enough Senate Republicans give in to the pressure from their own constituents and join the Dems on the votes.

I still haven't the foggiest idea about what you were talking about in your earlier post.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Perhaps you have not heard Reid
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 01:21 PM by nadinbrzezinski
but that is his plan

And let me translate my earlier post

You have two choices, work with the system or work outside it... outside it is violent revolution
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. So what on earth was all that stuff about 'Nam and Iran Contra???
You're talking to a Vietnam vet who protested that war.

I know how the system works. While "slow as molasses" on some things, it can work marvelously fast once the will to do so is there. It's up to the people to provide them with the will by protesting, calling, writing, harassing if necessary.

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. We should have learned the lessons after Nam
and not go into a war that was not provoqued et al

But tell me were there any real consequences for Iran Contra? That was an ilegal war funded with ilegal funds, just like we weem to be funding Al Qaidan right now

After all the same sordid cast of characters is back... ergo we as a nation learned nothing.

And the ones in charge learned, they Can get away with ANYTHING...
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. So what is your point? That it's all hopeless short of armed revolution?
First you said "we should not be protesting this shit", then you said "Now your job and mine is to keep protesting this shit".

I don't follow Reid's every word, but he's a Senator, and my OP is addressed to Nancy Pelosi as Speaker of the House, demanding that the House pass certain legislation because the House *does* have the votes to do so. Reid has nothing to do with it until such legislation gets to the Senate. I do know that Reid has never spelled out my plan exactly, because he's not in charge of such a plan which originates in the House.

If you have a criticism of my OP, I don't see it going beyond "it takes time, be patient". I've already addressed that in my OP. Beyond all that, I still don't see a coherent point to your posts.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. No the poin tis that demanding without knowledge
Edited on Tue Mar-20-07 02:10 PM by nadinbrzezinski
makes us look foolish

Sorry, but this... you need to this now kind of demands will make staffers chuckle

Far batter to particiatpe in the process with full knwledge and chiefly PATIENCE

Because that is what it will take

Oh and by the way, to add

You are aware of all teh haerings and other oversight that are already putting osme interstting breaks on the machine... and its been, say it after me, barely three months since they took power
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. So you're saying my "demand" is "without knowledge", i.e. ignorant?
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Boy, some clowns on DU sure are a waste of time.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. The ironic thing is, it was that sense of urgency that led
to the mess in the first place.

In one breath we decry the unfathomable loss of Iraqi life, and in the next we say "too bad, we're outta here". Is there not a better way? Even re-deploying to Kuwait seems to be nothing but eyewash to many activists.

I lament that our cynicism has grown to such proportions (but not without reason!).
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. its all the same
its still The ruling class.
Nothings changed since kings, just titles have
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Ain't that the truth. And there's always a dragon to slay. nt
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. it is up to us.
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GreenPartyVoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-20-07 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Sadly true
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Rydz777 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-21-07 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. Yes, Yes, Yes
You are absolutely right in all particulars. John Kerry's words of a generation ago, "Who will be the last to die for a mistake?" ring true every day. What is more insane than having our troops drive back and forth through the streets of Iraq in their worn-out Humvees waiting for the next bomb to kill them or blow off their limps. It's simply torture inflicted on our own people.

I just hope that if we keep the pressure on, the Democrats in the House and the Senate will bring this madness to an end NOW, not 2008, but NOW.
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