'We want this baby polar bear dead' say animal rights lobby

[cali]

Tiny, fluffy and adorable, Knut the baby polar bear became an animal superstar after he was abandoned by his mother.

<snip>

When Knut was born last December his mother ignored him, zoo officials intervened and chose to raise him themselves. At three months old, however, the playful 19lb bundle of fur is at the centre of an impassioned debate over whether he should live or die.

Animal rights activists argue that he should be given a lethal injection rather than brought up suffering the humiliation of being treated as a domestic pet.

Activists argue that it is inappropriate for a predator, known for its fierceness and ability to fend for itself in the wild, to be snuggled


"The zoo must kill the bear," said spokesman Frank Albrecht. "Feeding by hand is not species-appropriate but a gross violation of animal protection laws."

<snip>
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=443343&in_page_id=1811&ico=Homepage&icl=TabModule&icc=picbox&ct=5

Have at it. I for one am firmly on the side of the zoo and Knut. In this case, screw the activists.

[winter999]

1. What group is Albrecht with?

[redqueen]

11. Doesn't say... also references the Foundation for Bears.

I guess these are German activists... ?

[lukasahero]

12. Thankyou - not noted in the article

So they are citing one guy but noting "animal rights activists". No organizations named. Who is this guy?

[Serendipitous]

14. That's what I am wondering. I can't find anything that mentions an affiliation.

??

[hedgehog]

83. Isn't he the guy who stole the Rheingold?

[trotsky]

2. Say what?

Activists argue that it is inappropriate for a predator, known for its fierceness and ability to fend for itself in the wild, to be snuggled

So no cats or dogs as pets, then? Well that would be consistent with PETA's position, I guess.

[youthere]

57. Seems to me the media is being pretty misleading on this..

They are taking the opinion of ONE guy who wants the bear shot and combining it with this statement:

Activists argue that it is inappropriate for a predator, known for its fierceness and ability to fend for itself in the wild, to be snuggled

and making it appear that whoever these "activists" are, that they side with the one guy.

Pretty underhanded IMO.

[trotsky]

65. Yeah, the coverage is terrible.

But it is worth noting that PETA opposes even the keeping of companion animals, so it's not like the sentiment is unheard of.

[lukasahero]

67. Not keeping companion animals and killing them are rather different, no?

BTW - can you post a link to support that assertion?

[trotsky]

71. Here ya go.

"I don’t use the word 'pet.' I think it’s speciesist language. I prefer 'companion animal.' For one thing, we would no longer allow breeding. People could not create different breeds. There would be no pet shops. If people had companion animals in their homes, those animals would have to be refugees from the animal shelters and the streets. You would have a protective relationship with them just as you would with an orphaned child. But as the surplus of cats and dogs (artificially engineered by centuries of forced breeding) declined, eventually companion animals would be phased out, and we would return to a more symbiotic relationship – enjoyment at a distance."
-Ingrid Newkirk, PETA vice-president, quoted in The Harper's Forum Book, Jack Hitt, ed., 1989, p.223.

[lukasahero]

73. Wow - that's not even remotely close to being the same thing

"we would return to a more symbiotic relationship."

They are not talking about killing animals, they're talking about honoring the original nature of them. No wonder PETA gets slammed if one can read this statement and think from it would spring an idea even remotely similar to what the "animal activist" wants to do to this baby bear.

[trotsky]

75. I didn't say PETA was for the killing of animals.

(Though they have engaged in a lot of it in the past.)

This is just an observation that the person quoted in the article expressed a sentiment that is echoed within PETA that even companion animals are being abused and the practice of having pets should end. Don't try to assign me your strawman position.

[atreides1]

3. I Agree

Screw the activists.

[Bridget Burke]

4. I say--let the Zoo raise Knut.

When he's all grown up, introduce him to the Animal Rights Activists.

They will learn that he's retained plenty of his wild instincts.

[geardaddy]

49. Bingo! n/t

[Cameron27]

69. ROFL

You rock!

[Mad_Dem_X]

74. I like that idea!

I swear some of these activist groups are as looney-toons as the right wingers.

[Richard D]

5. That guy is one sick . . .

. . . arsehole.

[brentblack]

6. The logic is dumbfounding

I guess they support killing all zoo animals.

I do not like zoos or circuses for the obvious animal exploitaion issues, but for most people it is the only opportunity to see the magnificent creatures up close. So...I have to make rationalizations to get over it...usually works.

[Midlodemocrat]

7. I'm with you.

And, I'd like to know how the activists are so sure he would grow up humiliated? Do they think he'd rather be dead.

:eyes:

[Matariki]

8. "suffering the humiliation of being treated as a domestic pet"

a fate worse than death. screwy.

[prodigal_green]

21. eruh?

To the best of my knowledge, other than in terms we could never understand, I don't think that polar bears suffer humiliation. Anthropomorphising animals is probably more unfair. Most animals fight and die to obtain food and shelter. Sounds like this little baby has it in spades. I don't agree with plucking animals from the wild, once they've adapted to their surroundings, but death or hand-raising--puhleez.

[Matariki]

25. i was quoting the article

i think the guy who said that is nuts.

[NV Whino]

9. Given that these guys are heading toward extinction

feeding and raising him is a wise move I think. Knut may be the Beethoven of polar bears, if you catch my drift.

[alarimer]

10. In a few years he might be the only polar bear left

let him be a tool to educate people on what we have done to planet, especially since global warming is probably going to cause the extinction of polar bears (among other Arctic animals). Fuck these animal rights activists and their bizarre agenda.

[Sequoia]

13. 10 to 1 they probably don't agree with the gay lifestyle either.

What planet.....!???

[Goblinmonger]

48. Nice leap.

How do you figure that?

[Marrah_G]

15. This makes no sense

Zoos often hand raise newborns. It maes them easier to handle and more importantly it ensures their survival since new mothers sometimes ignore or abandon thier young (even in the wild). This doesn't sound like an animal activist group, but rather like a fringy group of nutcases.

With the melting of ice speeding up zoos may be the last hope to keep these giants alive until the earth heals itself again.

[lukasahero]

17. The article cites one man and no organization

So not "nutcases", just one "nutcase" (so far as we can discern at this point anyway).

[Marrah_G]

22. Must have been a slow news day!

[NashVegas]

45. One Organization That Has NO Webtracks

At least, not on Google. The only findable mention of "Foundation for Bears" happens to go with this story.

[Gold Metal Flake]

50. Exactly! Manufactured Outrage.

One nutcase does not a movement make. The media loves to use a single nutcase as a strawman to indict by false association groups and movements truely dedicated to do good.

One nutcase = any animal rights group you care to name, is what the corporate media wants you to think.

People in this thread have dutifully followed the corporate message masters to say "screw the activists". What activists? One nutjob does not a movement make.

[kineneb]

16. so I should off my pet chicken, 'cause she should be raised like poultry?

what a bunch of dim bulbs. We are talking captively-raised animals that will never be sent into the wild. And bears don't forget their place in nature, just because they are in a zoo...send little Mary into the grizzly exhibit and see how long she would last... tasty snack, she was...

[sharp_stick]

41. How dare you keep your chicken!

That is an affront to normal chicken behavior where it should be killed by you at 16 weeks of age and fried up at my next family get together. Either that or you stick it into a tiny cage and collect eggs from it until it is too old to do anything with, then kill it. ;-)

[kineneb]

47. Henrietta says poop on you

she is a lovely pet- she sits on my lap, follows me around the yard, and has a comfy cage in the house where she sleeps at night.

...ever "experience" chicken poop?
;-)

[sharp_stick]

62. Ahh yes, chicken poop

Never as a pet but growing up on a farm we raised chickens and I had to clean out the coop every fall. I often befriended them, and the ducks when I was a kid. I learned young that making friends with chickens and ducks on a farm was not a good idea in the long term, if you know what I mean. ;-)

People are often surprised to find out that they can be pets, but I've always found them very easygoing birds that can get used to a lot of human attention.

Say hi to Henrietta and keep her away from the fryer.

[Atman]

18. Oh for chrissake!

Let the zoo raise him. When he grows up he can maul and eat the zoo handlers if he's pissed off about it. I can't believe they'd advocate killing a baby because it's not in a proper environment.

Shall we extend that ridiculous notion to humans, too?

.

[Beelzebud]

19. This is an example of why many of us are for animal rights, and yet still against PETA.

Many PETA members subscribe to these viewpoints.

[lukasahero]

26. This is one man!

Read the freaking article and the first several responses. The article cites one man, mentions NO organizations.

And THAT is why people don't support PETA - because THE MEDIA lies!

[atreides1]

38. You should read the article a little better

'But Albrecht and other activists fret that it is inappropriate for a predator, known for its fierceness and ability to fend for itself in the wild, to be snuggled, bottle-fed and made into a commodity by zookeepers.

They argue that current treatment of the cub is inhumane and could cause him future difficulties interacting with fellow polar bears. "They cannot domesticate a wild animal," added Ruediger Schmiedel, head of the Foundation for Bears.'


I tried looking up Foundation for Bears, couldn't find it.

[lukasahero]

42. "I tried looking up Foundation for Bears, couldn't find it."

So one man from a "foundation" that may or may not exist and another guy cited as "a spokesman" (for whom?) represent "animal rights activists"? This is media spin to make genuine animal rights activists look like idiots.

[NMMNG]

52. I also think there's something not quite right about the article

It is likely just one or two nutjob extremists and they're trying to make it out to be a gang.

[Atman]

58. Foundation For Bears -- all I get are gay porn sites featuring big hairy guys.

:shrug:

.

[flvegan]

78. I believe it's Stiftung für Bären

I posted that in the other thread as well. I believe that's who is involved here.

[Gormy Cuss]

84. Thanks, flvegan n/t

[Book Lover]

20. You know, in my personal life I am as radical as this man, but I know the difference between

my life and the lives of others. I personally do not believe people should "own" pets. I really do. That's why I don't own any. Would I ever take a pet away from someone? Never. Would I advocate killing an animal because the circumstances of its life do not fit the "natural" paradigm, whatever that is anymore? Never. Never.

I'm with those who suggest we let this "activist" feed the bear in harmony with natural methods. Hell, I'll volunteer to do the shoving into the bear's zoo space myself.

on edit: Corrected my post to indicate there is only one man in the original article making this assertion.

[gravity]

23. WTF is wrong with these people

I'd rather have the animals out in the wild, but advocating for their death is just hypocritical.

Thats the problem with many animal rights activists, they just take their cause too far sometimes. I would be more sympathetic towards their cause if they were just a little bit more reasonable in what they advocate. It's like PETA wanting to get rid of pets because they harm the aniamls. I have a pet dog and if he wanted to run away he would have done so by now, but me and my dog have bonded and he lives a good life.

[lukasahero]

28. Please read the damn thread

This is not an organization - this is ONE MAN. The media has spun it to make it sound like a wide swath of generic animal rights activists support this and they are doing it in a way that you just fell for hook line and sinker.

[Kolesar]

32. I hear that this is only one man

who does not represent the broader "animal rights" community.

[lukasahero]

33. LOL

Thanks - god I needed that. :)

[Kolesar]

37. &deadpan

Anything to get my post count up!

[gravity]

39. WTF is wrong with this person

I overreacted some, but this man just reminds me how some animal rights supporters take their beliefs a little too far.

[lukasahero]

43. Very few but yes

there are idiots all over.

I just get pissed off with the media spin on animal rights activists. There's a lot of disinformation out there about these groups and people just buy what they read. This is just tremendously shoddy reporting.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

61. Thank you. That is it exactly. There are weirdos everywhere.

[KittyWampus]

66. PETA kills cats. Documented. Members convicted. Cause they don't believe in caring for ferals

So this is entirely in line with their philosophy and screwed up actions.

[lukasahero]

68. Individual members or organizational philosophy?

Please provide link.

[Beaverhausen]

72. NIce way to say they euthanize unwanted pets

Thousands of animlas are euthanized every year. There are just too many animals and not enough homes for them.

[zulchzulu]

24. Well gee, why doesn't Mr. Albrecht come by and strangle the poor little innocent cub

What the hell is wrong with some people... yeesh...

[rinsd]

27. WTF? I thought this was the Onion for sure (nt)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

29. I wonder if there are any MI5 infiltrators driving that group, trying to make

all animal rights groups look that insane?

[Dumak]

30. Bears should not be confined

Bears in particular do extremely poorly in confinement. A typical small commercial zoo is completely inadequate for their mental health. Only a very large wild animal park *might* be sufficient.

Here's a link to some info on that: http://www.oozemagazine.co.uk/zoostudy.htm

Visit your local city zoo. If they have bears, you are going to see a very unhappy animal (in particular the males, who *must* travel.)

[BoneDaddy]

31. Extremists

exist on every side.

[valerief]

34. Must be Republican animal activists. I didn't know bears could be "humiliated." nt

[NMMNG]

85. We can't blame this one on the Rethugs

They don't think large segments of humanity are capable of feelings (or worthy of them). They certainly aren't going to consider the feelings of animals.

[Eugene]

35. This BBC article covers both sides of the debate.

Berlin rallies behind baby bear - BBC News

Other animals in similar situations have been put down.
The Berlin Zoo seems to have a plan worked out for Knut
however.

[NorthernSpy]

36. it's kind of like trying to end slavery by shooting all the slaves...

Craaay-zeee.

:crazy:

[Beaverhausen]

40. You mean it's not Stephen Colbert?

You know how he feels about bears!!!

[guitar man]

44. how in the world

could anybody want to kill this baby??





I'd kick the shit out of anybody who tried to hurt him :grr:

[Nye Bevan]

46. Many animal rights activists are nuts. This guy is no exception.

Check out the PETA Wikipedia page.

In 1996, PETA activists famously threw a dead raccoon onto the table of Anna Wintour, the editor-in-chief of Vogue, who promotes the use of fur in fashion, while she was dining at the Four Seasons in New York, and left bloody paw prints and the words "Fur Hag" on the steps of her home. PETA supporters have also pied Wintour more than once,and a member delivered a package of maggot-infested innards to her office in April 2000, explaining in a press release that "Anna stole this animal’s skin and his life, she might as well have his guts".

(Peta President Ingrid Newkirk) has been quoted as saying "Six million Jews died in concentration camps, but six billion broiler chickens will die this year in slaughterhouses."

In 2005, a coalition of advocates for AIDS patients launched a campaign assailing PETA for its opposition to using animals to test possible AIDS drugs and calling on PETA's celebrity supporters to account for their high-profile role in what they described as "hindering the search for a cure to AIDS." PETA vice-president Dan Mathews responded that: "AIDS is an easy disease to avoid, but our government squanders millions on duplicative animal tests, rather than issue frank warnings, especially to young people." Dr. Genevieve Clavreul, the coalition's organizer, expressed concern that in order to find an AIDS vaccine "We are going to have to go to an animal model to do it and I don’t want to have to be fighting every five minutes against PETA." In a letter, the Patient Advocates Against PeTA, observed that PeTA President Ingrid Newkirk made a statement that even if animal research produced a cure for AIDS, "we'd be against it."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_for_the_Ethical_Treatment_of_Animals

[Goblinmonger]

54. So the guy in the OP

is a nut for wanting to kill the bear, and Newkirk is a nut for not wanting to kill animals. Guess with you the animal rights activists are damned if you do and damned if they don't.

And OMG they are anti-fur. What a-holes.

[Gold Metal Flake]

51. Manufactured Outrage.

One nutcase does not a movement make. The media loves to use a single nutcase as a strawman to indict by false association groups and movements truely dedicated to do good.

One nutcase = any animal rights group you care to name, is what the corporate media wants you to think.

People in this thread have dutifully followed the corporate message masters to say "screw the activists". What activists? One nutjob does not a movement make.

[gollygee]

55. Unfortunately, "one nutcase" = an easy and popular news story

so it happens over and over and over again.

[Gold Metal Flake]

60. Correct. Especially easy for the RW blatherwhores.

Sure to provide the RW radio liars an hour or two of indoctrination fodder.

[lukasahero]

64. Heck - it's actually two different threads here even

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x456133

[SemiCharmedQuark]

63. People catch it when it affects something they care about.

For example, the "Baby-Killers" stories about the anti-war crowd. If someone posted a link that described one specific guy saying that our troops were baby killers, nobody would take that seriously and rightly so. They'd call it a hit piece. Yet this story, everybody believes.

[Madspirit]

53. SCREW the activists, in this case n/t

[Auntie Bush]

56. They don't have to feed him by hand. Besides other zoos

have Polar bears...so why can't this one have a PB? We feed wild animals like lions and tigers so why not PB?

[Blue_In_AK]

59. Self-delete

Not up for another flame war. :)

[yardwork]

70. "some people say...."

Who are these so-called "activists?"

Sounds like b.s. to me. Don't fall for this "news" report that appears to be designed to make animal rights activists look bad, while failing to quote any recognized animal rights activist.

[Jamastiene]

76. Which "animal rights activists" are they referring to?

I think they are spinning this story so hard, the zoo is probably dizzy with all the phone calls and questions about these "animal rights activists." AFAIK, this is unheard of from animal rights groups.

[RaleighNCDUer]

77. Frank Albrecht is just a pseudonym

for Steven Colbert.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

79. My God Some Of These Extremist Activists Are Just So Beyond Insane. I'd Sooner Desire Them Be Put

to sleep than the Polar Bear. Jesus, what friggin nutjobs.

[JitterbugPerfume]

80. kill the baby bear?

what kind of a heartless Nazi would recommend THAT?

[heatstreak]

81. kick

[oblivious]

82. Hmmm.... Albrecht told AP it would be wrong to kill it. Other animal rights orgs say the same.

I can't find a single article that says which animal rights organisation Albrecht represents or which other organisations have lined up behind him. All I can find is a bunch of animal rights organisations that disagree with him. You don't think these reports would be biased do you?



3/20/2007-BERLIN, Germany
Animal Rights Activists: Kill Knut the Bear�

...The story prompted quick condemnations from the zoo, politicians and other animal rights groups.

"The killing of an animal has nothing to do with animal protection," said Wolfgang Apel, head of the German Federation for the Protection of Animals.

Greens politician Undine Kurth called the suggestion "fully unacceptable." Petra Pau of the opposition Left Party invoked the widely-reported case of an Italian bear dubbed "Bruno" who wandered last year into southern Germany, only to be killed by hunters at the behest of local authorities worried about residents and livestock.

"Berlin is not Bavaria, therefore it will be better for Knut than Bruno," Pau said.

Albrecht told The Associated Press his beliefs were more nuanced than reported by Bild, though he applauded the debate the article had started. He explained that though he thought it was wrong of the zoo to have saved the cub's life, now that the bear can live on his own, it would be equally wrong to kill him.

The German animal rights organization "Four Paws" argued along similar lines, saying it would not be right to punish the cub for a bad decision made by the zoo.

http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6252681



he has a right to live," said Wolfgang Apel, the head of the German animal protection league.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21418993-2703,00.html