re: 300 - wanna know who's seeing this movie? Exactly who they thought would see it....over and over

[ourbluenation]

My 18 year old football playing, testosterone filled, son and his peeps have gone back and seen this movie at least 3 times already...and they can't stand * and right wing politics for one red hot second.

I think people read too much into this stuff sometimes.

[YOY]

1. remember: It was based (really closely) on a graphic novel written nearly 10 years ago

It has nothing to do with anything but Frank Miller's artistic vision.

Just relax and enjoy the flick. How often do you get to see a guy throw a spear in a charging CGI war rhino's eye?

[HRC_in_08]

35. almost frame for frame in fact. eom

[Deep13]

2. In 300, the king leads the battle himself.

When can the quartermaster expect Bush to be fitted for a uniform?

[Hippo_Tron]

43. Are you implying that this doesn't count?

[wuushew]

3. I saw it last night and thought it was crap

n/t

[Deep13]

12. Okay, thanks for that detailed review.

There's no emoticon for a brief chuckle.

[wuushew]

20. Too much movie made out of too little material

I found myself bored with both the dialogue and the situations in which you found the characters. I have not read the graphic novel but have a feeling that it should have remained a story told only in comic book form.

I have also seen Sin City and felt that was a better execution of what Miller is going for onscreen.

Unlike others here I don't feel there is much to debate politically about this film, it is simply not that deep that one could make any plausible arguments.

[Deep13]

26. The plot was pretty 2-dimensional.

The characters were stock. We did not see the real details of Spartan society. I found it really odd that the one asshole guy in the council was walking around with a couple pounds of enemy gold. We never got to know the bad guy or what makes him tick. Plus we were given a distorted view of Xerxes who probably looked nothing like that. While we are on appearances, were Spartans unique among Greeks in eschewing armor? Seems unlikely that they did not wear the standard bronze breast-plate instead of those Speedos.

[JackRiddler]

44. If you want a detailed review, go here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x413207

[pepperbear]

4. forget the politics..anyone else disturbed by the fact that

a majority of the film is a CGI?

[Deep13]

11. Nope. Some films have been all CGI.

Visually, I thought it looked really good (except that Greek weather looked like a bad day in Buffalo).

[DainBramaged]

14. Nope, what about the final 3 Star Wars episodes?

[Solo_in_MD]

its a graphic novel made into a film, it could not be done any other way.

And its sufficently stylized that no one could think it was done *live*

[Solo_in_MD]

16. Double Post - Deleted

[RaleighNCDUer]

22. Settings and backgrounds, and some of the critters --

actors were live (except the mob battle scenes).
When I first heard about it I thought it was ALL CGI - like "Final Fantasy"; was surprised to see live actors, as with "Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow".

It's not a history, or a political tract; it's a popcorn film with some very impressive graphics and some less impressive acting.

[whistle]

5. Won't "300" eventually rank up there with "Triumph of the Will"

...as being one of the top propaganda films of all time? Right wingers must have both in their DVD collections

<snip>
'300' Flick Is Ready-Made for the Right-Wing Crowd

What's your favourite movie?

Someday soon, you may ask a new acquaintance that question, and just maybe -- because it takes all kinds -- your new friend will reply, "My favourite movie is 300."

If this happens, back away slowly. Your new friend probably kills cats for fun. Worse -- your new friend may be George W. Bush. Director Zack Snyder's new dramatization of the epic Spartan stand at Thermopylae will probably go down real well at the White House, and wherever disturbed young people massacre hundreds in violent video games. Others should exercise discretion.

This is a historical epic, but its real history is not so much ancient Greek as recent comic book. 300 is another film taken from the work of graphic novel auteur Frank Miller, following very much in the CGI tradition of last year's Miller-inspired Sin City. Nothing in 300 is natural -- not a ray of honest sunlight falls on a single frame of the movie. Like Sin City and the execrable Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow, 300 was filmed entirely in front of blue screens and subsequently built around the actors digitally.

Pretty dumb

It's certainly better than Sky Captain, visually at least. 300 has an undeniable beauty, a burnished look intended to evoke the mythic. Think of the dream scenes in Gladiator and imagine a whole movie of that. Don't imagine much else, because you'll be disappointed.

Someday, somebody is going to make one of these comic book movies that isn't quite so depressingly comic book. Not this time. 300 is an adolescent wet dream to its very core, a homoerotic paean to half-naked Greeks and their bloody, thrusting swords. And to make all the Chippendales-style posing more palatable for the young straight male target audience, there's a little bit of rough doggie-style hetero sex too.

The plot -- don't blink now -- is this: 300 brave Spartans, led by the heroic Leonidas (Gerard Butler), guard a pass against the Persian hordes commanded by King Xerxes (Rodrigo Santoro). There's a small bit of politics thrown in, and the aforementioned boinking (featuring Lena Headey as Queen Gorgo). But it's mostly just the glorious, sexual thrill of slow-motion violence and orgasmic geysers of spurting blood. Really. Such unabashed tributes to slaughter are usually delivered with a wink in slasher films, but 300 does not know how to wink. It is deadly serious in the way that so often provokes giggles. <more>

http://www.alternet.org/movies/49029/?comments=view&cID=614487&pID=614485

As for Triumph of the Will, here is a refresher:

<snip>
Triumph of the Will (German: Triumph des Willens) is a propaganda film by the German filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl. It chronicles the 1934 Nazi Party Congress in Nuremberg. The film contains excerpts from speeches given by various Nazi leaders at the Congress, including portions of speeches by Adolf Hitler, interspersed with footage of massed party members. Hitler commissioned the film and served as an unofficial executive producer; his name appears in the opening credits. The overriding theme of the film is the return of Germany as a great power, with Hitler as the True German Leader who will bring glory to the nation.

Triumph of the Will was released in 1935 and rapidly became one of the best-known examples of propaganda in film history. Riefenstahl's techniques, such as moving cameras, the use of telephoto lenses to create a distorted perspective, aerial photography, and revolutionary approach to the use of music and cinematography, have earned Triumph recognition as one of the greatest propaganda films in history. Riefenstahl won several awards, not only in Germany but also in the United States, France, Sweden, and other countries. The film was popular in the Third Reich<1> and elsewhere, and has continued to influence movies, documentaries, and commercials to this day, even as it raises the question over the dividing line between art and morality.
<more>

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_of_the_Will

[YOY]

6. It's not a propaganda film. It has nothing to do with Triumph of the Will

Quit overanalyzing things.

It's just a big budget blockbuster with so much CGI that it almost breaks the mold and a distinct Frank Miller comic book look to it.

Nothing more.

The damn thing was written nearly 10 years ago.

Somethings are just not political.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. No it wont

and people who make these kinds of reviews have a deep set of partisn eyes

If you knew a thing about Triumph of the Will, you'd realize just how stupid a statement this is

Now if you tell me that 9.11 the movie was a poor attemtp at Triumph of the Will, you've got my ears

What it will be seen as if a technical triumph of cinematics, and photography.

I did not say acting... that is a whole different matter

[Deep13]

13. What a load of crap!

How is it different than any other heroic-type war film?

[rinsd]

18. To even compare the two shows a complete lack of knowledge of either

[Der Blaue Engel]

45. Let me get this straight...if I loved 300, I kill cats for fun???

:wtf:

My cats are NOT amused by these silly aspersions.

I'm seeing it again on IMAX just to spite whoever wrote this.

[Alcibiades]

7. That's a surprise

From the promos on television and in the theaters, I had thought this was a gay film. No, I have not seen it, but it appears to offer enough glistening male cheesecake on parade to make Brokeback Mountain qualify as butch.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Not to inject gayness in

but you realize that the greeks had no problem with it

And after all... some greek troops fought au naturale.

[Deep13]

15. "the greeks had no problem with it"

That may be a bit of an overstatement. They tolerated male pedastery to some extent, perhaps more so in Sparta than elsewhere, but their basic values were no different than any other bronze-age, patriarchal, tribal society.

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. Ok lets put it this way

do we have a problem with it?

You tell me

So when you compare it to us... what about them?

The statemnt that this is gay just becuase we have men with oh perfects abbs going at battle, tells more about us and our values than Greece

or at least the poster's

[Alcibiades]

23. Anal sex was a no-no!

You were supposed to lovingly cradle your special friend's penis in your thighs, which he would hump to orgasm.

That was OK. Actual penetration was regarded as sissy.

[Phredicles]

34. It may have been regarded as sissy, but it still happened...

Aristophanes' plays have lots of tush-fuck jokes. Very few thigh-humping jokes. Of course, I'm sure the Spartans would object that these are effete Athenians we're talking about.

[Alcibiades]

54. It slipped

Presumably, if, in the course of manly thigh-humping, something slipped in and no one noticed, that would be OK.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. Not the Spartans, though.

The "au naturale" part. They were armored from head to ankle, the very definition of heavy infantry. Though they were probably that buff, you'd never see them like that on the battlefield.

[ourbluenation]

17. I told that to my son...he said "so what? I'm straight..." It's all about the battle scenes for him.

He tried to get my hubby and I to see it with him on sunday (family movie night). said thx but no thx...we watched babel instead.

[RebelOne]

29. As a woman, I see no problem with male cheesecake.

In fact, I will make it a point to see this film just so I can feast my eyes on some good-looking male bodies.

[Rydz777]

10. Technology

I have not seen "300" yet but may choose to see it just because of what I've read about the technology used in making it. The technology seems to be moving fast toward the ability to create sharper illusions of reality. That's both interesting and potentially dangerous.

[underpants]

19. Looks like a good movie to see for the action action action

You all are looking way to much into this and letting them set the playing field.

If they want to become the war party let them.

[rasputin1952]

24. Spartan males were bred for war, nothing else.

At the age of seven, they were taken from their mothers and lived a truly "spartan" existence. Taught the arts of war, they were formidable warriors. When "graduated" into the army, a mother's responsibility was to give her son his shield and state, "come back with this shield, or upon it".

At birth, each child was searched for "defects", if any were found, they child was left in the wilderness to die.

The Battle at Thermopolye was fought in tight quarters, which made it extremely difficult for the attackers. Leonidas was one smart king/general. But the die were cast against him by a spy and the men guarding the pass the Persians came through deserted their posts sometime before.

In any case, Leonidas sent 1000+ off in ships and stayed w/the 300. Battle was close combat for the most part, and as the bodies piled up, they made the Persian advance more difficult.

Many mistakes were made, but the Persians made most of them.

There was a sleeper movie years ago about early Vietnam, called, "Send In The Spartans", it too showed sacrifice on the battlefield.

For male youth today, it is as compelling as it was back then, the battle, the carnage, the spirit....until you have to go through it, and then onne realizes war truly is hellish.

[Malikshah]

25. My problem isn't the politics--but the human issue--it glorifies violence

It glorifies violence
It glorifies the dehumanization of an enemy-- any enemy.

And yes, I have problems with Slasher films (Saw, I, II, III etc.) with the glut of Grand Theft Auto/Halo/Doom etc. games out there.

Am I a Tipper wannabe-- nope.

I just hate seeing folks so desensitized to violence.

War is not a video game, CGI, or green-lit smartbomb cam event.

So whatever party one belongs to, whoever they support or don't-- that is NOT the issue to me. What is the issue is the use of violence for prurient interests, the blending of sex and violence, -- none of these propel the narrative forward-- they are used to excite, eroticize, etc.

A Jackson Pollacky spray of entrails and blood over a murky backdrop replete with thumping score, sweating pecs, and heaving loins is still violence for violence's sake.

No one will be able to make me believe that this is better for humanity--ever.

[mondo joe]

27. Um, have you SEEN the movie your avatar is taken from?

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. LOL!

[Malikshah]

32. Yup-- and it is clear that folks who continue to use this are clueless as to the point I am making

Yes-- V for Vendetta has all manners of violence-- but that is a larger philosophical theme and question addressed throughout the film-- is violence used for revenge acceptable-- does it solve the issues-- the film's answer is not clear on that factor.

Folks-- before you try and be clever about the V for Vendetta avatar--actually think about that particular movie's message and treatment of violence in a larger sense-- to compare it to 300 is laughable.

[rinsd]

37. You complain about the glorification of violence

I assume because you think the audience at large will not be educated enough to sift thru the themes simply accepting the brutality of the violence.

But somehow this same audience of impressionable people will watch V and come away with more than Portman gets her head shaved(which is an actual "selling point: of the movie in mags like Maxim) and crazy Shakespeare guy blows up Parliment?

Just because you like one movie and not another doesn't make the latter any less/more glorifying of violence or contributing to desensitizing us to it.

[Malikshah]

41. Hmmm. A movie that focuses on new artistic ways to show warfare and bloodletting

Yup 300 is akin in my book to the Saw series or the latest Tarantino schlockfest wannabe retro cinematic abortion.

Yeah--they have their audiences. More's the pity, but hey we live in a free society.

I'd be fascinated to find reviews of V for Vendetta that talk of its glorification of violence.

Otherwise-- your argument is but a relatively wispy strawman.

[rinsd]

47. LOL. You seem unfamiliar with the concept of strawman

See if you had simply brushed aside the comment about your avatar your would have a point. But you have now gone on to defend the use of violence in V.

"I'd be fascinated to find reviews of V for Vendetta that talk of its glorification of violence."

Google is your friend

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS212US212&q=v+for+vendetta+violence

You'll actually find a few people defending the violence as poetic.

[Malikshah]

49. Indeed google is a friend.

As a mindless action movie, V FOR VENDETTA would be a bit of a dud. None of the action scenes are as memorable as anything in the MATRIX trilogy, and V's extended ballet of violence near the end (with geysers of blood splashing across the screen in slow-motion) seems woefully overdone, in a last-ditch effort to satisfy those who want to see the villains get their final real come-uppance. The slow-motion works against the effectiveness of the scene, because the idea is supposed to be that V is so fast he can outmaneuver a superior number of men armed with guns. What was need here was the deft swiftness of Zorro’s flashing blade, or the tongue-in-cheek bloodlessness of a samurai film (wherein the hero swings his sword too fast to see, and his enemies fall over almost as if unaware of what hit them).

What saves the movie is the strength of its storytelling. The pacing sometimes lags (thanks to a running time that extends well past two hours), but much of the writing in individual scenes is brilliant and even moving. One of the highlights occurs when Evey (Portman), while imprisoned and being tortured, takes solace in notes she finds tucked in a rat hole by the occupant of the cell next door. The little mini-autobiography of her fellow unseen sufferer (portrayed in voice-over and flashbacks) is an eloquent condemnation of the injustice of persecuting innocent people because of their differences from the majority. (There's more emotional wallop in this sequence than in the entirety of the good but overrated BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.)

It continues--making my point btw.

So very many reviews-- gotta love those V = Osama ones by the neocon sites.

Keep those lovely little "LOLs" coming-- they continue to have their effect...

[mondo joe]

38. So you're okay with desensitizing to violence if it serves you philisophically?

LOL!

[Malikshah]

40. Wow-- How can I respond to such a rejoinder???

Nah. Too easy.

Enjoy the oblivion.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. You haven't seen it, have you

from the previwes you may reach that conclusion... but from the movie perse... not really

Yep there is violence

Here is a huge news flash for you... it is a war movie, people are killed in war, and it is not clean

After that... there is no glorification of violence, unless you think of the single line about dying what Spartans consider a good death, in battle, given it was a military society yep they didn't take that much freedom with that one

Perhaps you know that the Afghani Tribesmen see death in battle as dying a good death TODAY... but hey, they are, just like the Spartans were, a Warrior culture

[Malikshah]

33. Uh-- the images are there. I'm not talking about attempts at dialogue in the film

The visuals, the larger picture.

Afghani tribesman=warrior culture a la Sparta?

Not going to touch that one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Yuo might not want to

but warrior cultures across the ages do regard the death on a battlefield as glorius

By the way HAVING SEEN IT, which you obviously have not... the images are far from glorious, or glorification of violence

After all making a wall using humans as mortar is hardly a glorification of war... and that is one of the visuals used in the movie, more to the horrors of war

A body standing before knees finally collapse, after beign decapitated, have its own horror, as well as the look of horror of his father

But you can say this glorifies violence... I say go watch it.

It glorifies war just as much as ... Platoon did, or Apocalypse Now, and if yuo think those two glorified it, you missed them by a wide margin.

[RaleighNCDUer]

39. It actually seems rather apt.

The warrior culture threatened by a corrupt, decadent empire from across the sea that has overwhelming military might...

WE are the Persians.

[AZBlue]

42. Interestingly the theaters showing it have undergone more damage from this film than any other film

I work in the film industry and have heard nothing but complaints from theater operators.

But, yeah...the violence is no big deal, huh?
:sarcasm:


(please note: this is a post in response to some others on this threads and other threads that have appeared about 300, not necessarily this particular OP)

[whistle]

46. 300 The Movie from a Persian historian's point of view...

...which explains why President George Dubya, his mindless followers and the Pentagon propaganda machine will eat this comic book fantasy animation up like Jimmie Dean Sausage and continue to defecate its images and so called moral message out among Americas masses. The Pentagons really hopes to boost recruitment numbers from the ranks of those who are exposed to this film to meet Shrub's surge vision.

<snip>
300 Spartans, The Real Story!
A Historically Accurate Review on 300, The Movie (2007)
Ahreeman X
March 9, 2007

"300, The Movie is the greatest cockamamie, Bull Shiite, Hero Worship, Falsification of History Hollywood Spoof made so far in the 21st Century!"

I was sitting in my office and pondering what should I write specifically for the Persian Cultural Month?

Persian Cultural Month

I came to the conclusion that the best piece that I can write to educate the public about the Persian Culture and expose the Hollywood spoofs at the same time, would be a piece about 300, The Movie! That is why I am going to tell you the true history of the 300 Spartans.


The movie comes out on March 9, 2007 (today) and I have not seen it yet (through special previews); however, I have seen the making of the movie, a program about the movie on the History channel, clips and trailers of the movie on the net and online writings about the movie. I have a strong feeling that this will be yet another Hollywood Bull Shiite Spoof!

Another Anti Persian, Hollywood spoof based on mythical Greek garbage tales of ancient Greek historians when 300 Spartans fought an army of 300,000 Persians and slaughtered a bunch of them (80,000 Persians) before they died in battle as Greek heroes with honor, Greek Style!

As a historian, this movie seems cartoonish and humorous to me!

<snip>
Uber Immortal is unleashed, unchained, ungagged and unbonded to swallow the Greek Hoplites alive! Dear Lordy Lordy Lord! I don't know which are more asinine, Greek Historians or Hollywood Historians? Both groups are famous for creating amazing fantasies out of their rectums! This reminds me of American Ku Klux Klan, Neo Nazis and Aryan Brotherhood who claim they are White Aryans! These illiterate morons do not have a shred of racial and anthropological knowledge! American White Supremacists are of the White "Anglo-Saxon" race and by no means they are Aryan! On the other hand mostly Northern Iranians are of the White "Aryan" Race. So these bozos call themselves Aryans, which are not, yet they call us Rag Heads whom we are the true white Aryans! These idiots still assume that we are Arabs! Typical Redneck illiterate Americans! What do you expect?

<snip>
Originally Greek Historians used to create mythical lies about Greco-Persian Wars but now Hollywood does this task!

I have to admit the special effects and computer animation is great; however, this movie will not be remembered for its great acting performances and neither for any shred of historical value or reality. This movie is from a long line of fabricated garbage such as Alexander, 300 Spartans (1962 version) and other spoofs which came out of Hollywood.

Basically this is a computer animation, special effect, cockamamie warrior tale for children and other mindless morons to occupy a few hours of their time by watching this movie rather than playing video games, reading comic books or watching Scooby Dooby Doo! Of course you can also watch it only to have fun and pass time.

But I will not be surprised if some bozos would actually quote this movie as a historical document!

Please enjoy the latest Hollywood Spoof to glorify Greeks as fathers of the Western Civilization and trash Persians as Savage dogs! Another Hollywood garbage to undermine 8000 years of Iranian history, the mother civilization of the world! Please review and educate yourselves to 8000 years of Iranian History.

8000 Years of Iranian History

With the present US-Iran situation, this will be a great propaganda to warn the world about the threat of the New Persian Shiite Empire (IRI), same as the Old Persian Empire (Achaemenid)!

Personally I will not spend a dime on garbage like this. I will not go see the movie and I will not even buy or rent it when it comes out on DVD. I just wait till it comes on Cable Movie channels (Encore and such ….), thus this film same as Alexander and other Hollywood spoofs of the past has zero historical credibility and it is an insult to the Superior and dominating Persian Culture (in comparison to Greeks) and surely an insult to Iran and Iranians.
<more>
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/history/300/

[rinsd]

48. What a review! From someone who didn't even see the movie!

And thanks for the real history from that time period for a Persian historian.

The one in which the benevolent Empire was merely taking care of business with some upstarts

"So overall Persians had won some and lost some battles but they taught the Greek agitators a lesson to stay off of Persian Territory and stop agitating the Greek States of Iran."

Reads like the Confederate version of history.

And then there's this chestnut at the end

"
Ancient Greeks were very good with sitting around the Grecian Peninsula, at the daytime philosophizing, creating "Out There" amazing heroic stories, Greek Mythology, war fantasies, and at the nighttime having Anal Sex! But when the Greeks were philosophizing, creating "out there" tales out of their rectums and butt banging each other, us "The Persians" were busy attending to "Reality" and creating the "Global Civilization"! And that my friends is the difference between Greek Philosophy and Persian Philosophy!"

[whistle]

50. Are you suggesting that ancient Greeks did not have anal sex ...

...as a normal form recreation intercourse and a means of establishing domination in the social hierarchy?

[rinsd]

51. Sigh.

Yes but strangely the author uses such acts as a pejorative almost like he thinks there's something wrong with it.

If you need further help connecting the dots, I cannot help you.

[Lurking Dem]

52. "This movie seems cartoonish..."

has got to be the singularly most unintentionally funny line ever.

[MessiahRp]

53. I saw it this past weekend

Two things...

1. I think the use of ogres and other creatues (elephants and rhinos taller than large buildings?) is over the top.

2. I think the real story is much more interesting than this.

Let me say first I never read the graphic novel. Even so the original story of how 300 Spartans overcame 10,000 Persians before meeting their fate was riveting enough then to completely create fiction around it. I didn't need Lord of the Rings style ogres and beasts to keep me interested.

They also leave out the sea battle that was occuring at the same time in which the Persians also suffered major losses.

The focus was a bit too narrow and the fantasy was too strong (although the whole oracle thing is legit strangely enough) for my own personal taste.

But then again I mostly went to see it to see if it was great on the big screen which many action films are. And at $8.50 a ticket and $40 a trip I need to be lured by something my DVD player can't handle.

Of course having that HD DVD player may whittle movie going down that much more.

Was I impressed? Eh... it was a 6 out of 10 for me. The historical inaccuracies and creatures sort of turned me off. The actor who played Leopodis did a nice job in the role however.

Rp