The Dumbing Down of America

[Faux pas]

A little long, but well worth the read~~~~

By Manuel Valenzuela

Something is amiss in the great nation called America. Ominous sirens warning this reality can be heard emanating loudly through invisible winds of change circulating our towns and cities. The American people are being strangulated; unbeknownst to the masses they are being transformed and conditioned, becoming the entity the elite have long sought, the culmination of decades of social engineering designed to make of hundreds of millions the slaves of times past and the automatons of the future.

Yet in this present day we find ourselves in, struggling to comprehend a world gone mad, unable to discern neither the direction we are headed nor the inevitable course time is guiding us on. It is because of what has been done to us, and is presently being done to our children, that we fail to comprehend the severity of the road that lies ahead. Quite successful have the elite become in shifting the balance of power from the masses to themselves. How, one might wonder, has this been accomplished, especially when we are the many and they the few?

It is through the dumbing down of America, the methodical destruction and purposeful elimination of the means by which a society educates and enlightens itself. The evisceration of a system that extols accountability and dialogue, opens up the gates of opportunity with the keys of ability, questions authority and seeks debate, creates a wealth of knowledge and illuminates talent and that births an informed citizenry and creates free thinking, analytical minds has been slowly implemented for the last several decades. The dumbing down of America continues into the present, unrelenting and unhindered, squashing the masses for the benefit of the elite.

More: http://www.debianhelp.org/node/1560

[Robson]

1. New Fox Program - Are You Smarter Than 5th Grader?

I'm a big believer that the masses are being dumbed down on purpose. This new Fox program "Are You Smarter Than a Fifth Grader" exemplifies it. Fox watchers are obviously the dumbest of the lot too.

http://www.fox.com/areyousmarter/

[Faux pas]

12. I believe the same thing. Just the difference from my school days,

my kids school days and my grand kids school days is ridiculous. My 8 yr old granddaughter can't read yet. I wanted to scream "What!!!!!" when I heard that, but didn't. They're in CO and I'm not.

LOL yeah, let go on a show and be proud to be smarter than a fifth grader...
waaa-hooo, huh?

[pampango]

64. I've never seen the show, but 5th graders are pretty smart.

see post #26 below.

"Oh, and the fifth graders that I'm working with, they're learning about the basics of economy, US history, algebra, and no, we don't only teach that the US is numero uno uber alles. We teach the truth."

Most adults don't use algebra, US history and the sciences on a daily basis. It is easy to forget many of the things we learned in school.

[ComerPerro]

95. There quiz was pretty easy, but there are some areas

where a fifth grader would be "smarter" than an adult.

http://www.fox.com/areyousmarter/features/index.htm

It depends what they are focused on. For example, when I was in fifth grade we had intensive focus on the American Revolution. I know shit about specific battles and generals that I have forgotten by now, just 16 years later. But I assure you if such questions had been asked when I was 10, I would have nailed em.

So the show could get really viscious at times, depending on how specific they want to get.

But, the samples in the quiz I linked were pretty easy.

[jollyreaper2112]

97. better idea

How about "Are you smarter than the president?"

[geardaddy]

100. Yeah, hosted by Jeff Foxworthy.

:puke:

[Selatius]

2. Incredible rant.

Let's eliminate Econ 101 from all high schools and Personal Finance classes from them as well.

This way, we get dumb people who believe the bullshit trickle-down economics pushed by the corporatists, people so dumb that they run up thousands in credit card debt in a form of neo-indentured servitude.

[MissMarple]

6. Economics is often absent in high school course offerings.

Sad, but true. Civics is either poorly taught in many schools or is absent, as well. And many colleges do not have basic requirements like Western Civ, American history, or economics, either. :nuke:

[Faux pas]

16. No offense to teachers, but I can bet many of them couldn't teach

these courses anyway. The downfall of education has gone hand in hand with the quality of the teachers. Not making this out of whole cloth, had a friend who was secretary to teachers and counselors. The stories she told me blew my mind.

[MadHound]

26. No offense to teachers eh

Offense taken pal. Are there problems with education? Yes, however laying the myriad of problems all at the door of teachers is utter and complete bullshit. Gee, it isn't like we have to deal with a national system of accountancy that leaves us have to worry about standardized testing for half the school year. It isn't like we have to deal with apathetic and uncaring parents who don't give a damn. It isn't like our pay, for one of the most important jobs in society, is subject to the whims of the taxpayer, who most likely gives more of a damn about keeping thirty bucks in tax money every year than the education his child gets. And for your information, teachers currently have to have the most education in order receive and retain accreditation.

Oh, and the fifth graders that I'm working with, they're learning about the basics of economy, US history, algebra, and no, we don't only teach that the US is numero uno uber alles. We teach the truth.

Yes, we could have a better education system, that is for sure. While I'm fortunate to work in a district with small class sizes, my pay is low, the tech is at least ten years old, and the infrastructure supporting education is nebulous at best. Yes, there are poor teachers out there too, I've seen my share. I've also seen my share of great teachers who became burned out with the insanity, especially when couple with low pay, that they walk out only a couple of years after walking in. Paying teachers more as a profession would go a long way to eliminating these problems.

But no, I suppose not. We'll just conveniently ignore the plight of the teacher, except when the country needs a punching bag for why our children's education is going downhill. Then we can drag out the teacher once more and give them a few licks until we better so much better, so smug, so superior.

Fuck that! If I had a penny for every person that has bitched about our education system, all the while not doing a damn thing about it, including voting for more school money, I would be rich enough that I wouldn't have to teach. Instead I have to remain in the classroom, educating the children of ungrateful, uncaring parents, suffering the slings and arrows of such as you. Gee, thanks, let me ask when was the last time that you offered to do something to help out the education system, other than painting us all with broad brush bullshit insults? Yeah, that's what I thought.

Thanks, I'll go back to my kids now, at least they are grateful for the job that I do. :grr:

[Faux pas]

34. Not putting at the feet of ALL teachers. Guess you missed my

reply here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=456603&mesg_id=458692

I've had experience with great, good and bad teachers. Problem is, you can't get rid of the bad ones.

Nice rant though, Kudos.

[MadHound]

36. No, I didn't miss that, nor did I miss this

"The downfall of education has gone hand in hand with the quality of the teachers" Again, it seems as though you are laying most, if not all of the blame about the quality of education at the feet of the teacher. I find that insulting and deragatory pal. Like I said, teachers have to have the most education of any profession before they can be accredited and to retain their accreditation. How many other professions require by law that you have a post grad degree within four years of graduating? Not many, if any.

And again, part of the solution is to PAY US MORE MONEY! We are, after all, doing one of the most vital jobs in this country, yet we aren't getting paid shit. Do you think that is really going to attract quality people? Especially these kids who are coming out in debt to their necks, yet looking at a pay scale that starts them out at less than what a garbage collector makes?

I grew up the son of teachers, I'm the husband of a teacher, and now I teach myself. Yes, I will go off on people who like to paint the profession with broad brush strokes. At least you acknowledge that parents are part of the problem, more than some people do. But still, your above statement that I quoted is the same BS I've been hearing for years and decades now, and that's all it is, BS. Yes, there are poor teachers, just as there are poor doctors, lawyers, cops, construction workers, etc. etc. ad nauseum. Yet I have yet to see an entire profession demonized the way teachers are for a relatively few bad teachers(cops probably come the closest).

And yes, actually you can get rid of bad teachers. Yes, the process is long and difficult due to the built in protections of the tenure system. But if we didn't have that, then the good and great teachers would also be getting tossed out due to pissing off some fundy parent over evolution or some such. We serve the entire public, and sadly it now seems that we're coming under attack from the entire public. It used to be that liberals and progressives would see the position that teachers were in and take our side. But sadly over the past decade or two it has become fashionable for liberals, in all their open minded tolerant glory, to trash the teachers right along with the conservatives and other whackos. Gee, thanks.

But hey, that's OK, I have a built in support group to assuage my feelings when I want to tell the rest of the adult world to fuck off. It's the kids in my classroom, whose eyes light up as they learn, whose praise I cherish. They're a hell of a lot more grateful than most adults these days, perhaps because they know what's happening first hand like the teachers do. The only drawback to this is that they don't pay my salary, that's in the hands of ungrateful adults who really don't give a damn.

Tell you what pal, why don't you step into the classroom, put your ass on the line, try walking in my shoes for awhile. Then let's see what bullshit you have to spew.

[Faux pas]

54. Sorry 'pal', all I can do is apologize and hope you accept it. My

screen name should give you a hint that I'm fully aware that I'm not perfect.

"teach your children well".

Peace.

[proud2BlibKansan]

39. Offense taken anyway

First of all, most teacher ed programs are now 5 years and you enter the profession with a masters degree. For maybe $30,000 a year - if you're lucky.

I believe there is a competency exam in every state now and passing it is a requirement for certification. You go take it and get back to us, okay?

Finally, if you want to complain about the quality of education, head straight to your congress critter's office and demand that No Child Left Behind be abolished. That despicable piece of legislation has far more to do with what kids are not getting in classrooms these days than any teacher regardless of his/her instructional skills.

[Faux pas]

58. I figure that teachers have to pass a competency test to teach.

(duh), what I need to know is if they are tested on any kind of regular basis to make sure they are up to snuff. I can't seem to find this information.

Also, some of the most bass ackward people I've known have Masters Degrees, so this doesn't impress me much.

I'm sure there are plenty of good teachers out there, I don't have a problem with them. It's the ones who are just killing time and wasting space waiting for their retirement to kick in that I have the problem with. You have to know there are plenty of them out there too.

[treestar]

72. It's not the teachers; it's the culture and the parents

The teachers may be just one of the many symptoms, but teachers can hardly teach today. It's mostly discipline and filling out forms. Only the honors class is willing to even try to learn.

[Faux pas]

14. How about too dumb to understand trickle-down economics,

therefore it's easy to believe it b/c it's too complicated for them. Don't know about you, but if I don't understand for it, I'm not jumping on board.

[Cabcere]

31. My high school didn't offer any econ/finance courses.

:shrug: Then again, we couldn't even afford to get the damn roof fixed - about a quarter of the seats in the auditorium had to be covered with garbage bags one year because the roof leaked so much...and yet the football team (which, to be honest, sucked - they even lost most of our Homecoming games!) was never lacking for funds. :eyes: Yep, we sure had our priorities straight! :sarcasm: Oh, and did I mention that I'm from a very rural, very conservative area? (Because I'm sure you wouldn't have figured that out from context, lol.)

/rant

[melody]

3. Not educating the "masses"

... has been a goal of the aristocracy for a long time. Poppy's good buddy wrote a white paper
on it, in fact.

[onethatcares]

4. and doesn't Neil have a certain school program

Choice Point being its' name? NCLB being no more than a reguritation of words through comprehensive assessment tests? Teachers have to teach to a test and not allow education to be enlightening, or thought provoking. Even the slowest of those I grew up with had classes they shined in. I was slower than some in many, but there were some that made me.

[Karenina]

5. Can anyone accurately remember the quote

from Jesuit priest saying, "Give me a child...?"

"Conditioning" is something every free spirit resists at the moment s/he become aware of it. It's a long and painful process to undo.

[Jonathan50]

15. Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man.

I was taught by my father at home as a child, by the time I was seven I could read the Reader's Digest quite easily.

[Faux pas]

17. Sad and scary. How did this happen anyway? Who wasn't

paying attention? The previous generation of dumbed-down parents would be my guess.

[MissMarple]

37. Do you remember who poppy's little buddy is, by chance?

I do believe there is a concerted attack on public education by the wing nut right.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. corporations have bought us up. they want to keep us dump,

otherwise we would figure out how they manipulate, cheat, and abuse us.
They continued this control by buying off and controlling MSM.
They continue to try to control the tubes of the internets, because they fear how a lack of control will bite them in the ass.

[Faux pas]

18. Agreed, now what do we do? n/t

[ChairmanAgnostic]

29. the theme song to MASH comes to mind, but, it seems coulter-productive.

I've tried to start third parties with other interested people, especially when the Democrats were bending over and offering a choice of KY, olive oil, peanut butter, or margarine to the GOP they had just beaten.

This moment in history - RIGHT NOW - will be the turning point. Either they stand up and do what most Americans believe to be the right thing to do, OR at the other extreme, they will cave in worse than a russian coal mine. What troubles me worst is the muddle solution: They will stand up, in a nuanced, DLC way, but end up following Bushista policies because of AIPAC support and threats, and because too many of our congresscritters and sellators prefer the DLC to their own constitutional oaths and responsibilities. There are disturbing signs of this in the Force. The abject failures to pass real ethics reform, to ban those cute little personal attachments and return on bribes for local constituants, and other examples make it seem as though one group of criminals are in the process of replacing the last group of scoundrels and villians.

[Faux pas]

35. I've been praying and hope-hope-hoping for a viable third

party candidate since raygun's reign. Sad to say, but I believe the dems are just more of the same old status quo and we'll just be more disappointed
than we have been in the last four years. We will be sitting here in a pile of rubble and dust, wondering what happened. The thieves will be sitting pretty (both parties) and we'll be stuck holding the bag, filled with broken dreams and hollow promises.

Love the mind picture of the lubricating offerings. :)

[Danascot]

8. Um, Let's See, the US allows B*sh to be pResident ...

I rest my case.

[Faux pas]

19. LOL succinct and precise and to the point. Your case is rested. n/t

[Kurovski]

32. The Supreme Court allowed Bush to become president.

Election theft made Bush president.

But it's true that we've been too passively stupid to storm Washington and throw him out of the White House.

[treestar]

74. Very true, and from the article

Today we see the ramifications of a citizenry that has allowed itself to be made ignorant through its submission to those in power whose purposeful malfeasance continues to destroy the very essence of knowledge that grants freedom to enslaved minds. Iraq and the coming disaster in the Middle East are a consequence to the decimation of education in the United States. George W. Bush is a consequence of the dumbing down of America, to which he owes his very position perched like the vulture he is atop the dying tree of America that has been contaminated by his inept and infected claws smeared in human blood.

[heatstreak]

9. kick

[Faux pas]

20. Thank you. n/t

[Terri S]

10. Valenzuela has written some great stuff

if you go to that link, then click on the link to his blog you'll see some of it.

[Faux pas]

21. This was the first I'd heard of him. I saved the blog link when

I found the original link. He is good, for sure.

[OneBlueSky]

11. "Gluttony and materialism have enveloped all corners of the United States," . . .

from Pacific to Atlantic Oceans, from the border with Canada to the one with Mexico. The principles of consumerism and greed are all-encompassing, years ago having replaced virtues long since gone. The clandestine enslavement hidden in mass production and ever-longer working hours has in the last few decades become the value by which we measure one’s worth to society." . . .

how sadly true . . .

[Faux pas]

22. And how truly sad. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

13. The dumbing down of America has been going on for a long time

but it began to pick up speed during the Reagan administration, and is rushing us headlong into idiocy.

When American Idol, Survivor, celebrity poker, and WWF wrestling are so popular, and even the cable TV channels that were originally designed to be intelligent (History, Discovery, Bravo, BBC America, etc.) are joining the race to the bottom of the IQ charts, and the most intelligent channels (Newsworld International, Ovation) disappear altogether, you know that something is going on.

[Faux pas]

23. You forget to mention A&E. I don't watch it for the tattoo, car salesman

and Dog the Bounty Hunter shows. I'm pissed that I pay to have those channels and get nothing but 'schlock' and awe. Pitiful.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Oh, A&E is one of the most disgusting examples!

They used to run arts documentaries and British TV dramas. I have fond memories of watching Tenko, Dalziel and Pascoe, A Touch of Frost, Lovejoy, Silent Witness, and other fine dramas on that station. They disappeared one by one, even though Dalziel and Pascoe and Silent Witness are still running in the UK (I watched a couple of episodes of Silent Witness while I was over there). They kept a few Masterpiece Theatre-type classics for a few years after that, such as Pride and Prejudice and Horatio Hornblower, but now those are gone, too.

Their last gasp of intelligence was showing the finely nuanced spy drama MI-5 (known as Spooks in the UK) for three seasons. When it came time for the 4th season, they started running it without any publicity, stopped after two episodes, replacing it without notice with reruns of CSI Miami, and then finished it off with a Saturday marathon two months later.

So much for any last vestige of programming for people whose knuckles don't drag on the floor.

[Faux pas]

57. I loved Silent Witness, A touch of Frost and all of those. I almost

forgot that I watched them on A&E. Now I'm even more disgusted. I watched MI-5 for as long as it lasted.

Not that long ago, two weeks maybe, I sent an email to A&E telling them how they have let many of us down with the change of programming....How long do you think it'll take them to reply? (being facetious, I already figure I won't be hearing from them at all.)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

66. You won't hear from them

People (including me) complained bitterly on A&E's Internet board, but there was no response except to continue with their dumbing down. :-(

I guess that was the answer, an unspoken "f*** you."

[Faux pas]

68. LOL I got that. Probably b/c I never even got an automated

response. You know the kind "Thank you for contacting blah, blah, blah. Because of the volume of emails we receive blah...." Why do they even bother having 'contact us' on the sites? Sheesh.

[NashVegas]

92. The Tragic Thing About A & E

I can't believe this is the channel that turned me on to A Room With a View sometimes.

Yet, they still turn out some amazingly good items when it moves them. A & E financed Jesus Camp, so go figure.

[nick303]

45. I'll give you credit on the rest but

What's not to like about poker?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

48. As something to watch on TV?

A poker game is considered broadcast worthy just because some celebrities are playing it?

:eyes:

[Lilith Velkor]

94. That's just the "free market"

Stupid people are more likely to spend money they don't have, so shows aimed at them get the most advertising dollars, and commercials specifically designed for them.

"You can fool some of the people all of the time, and those are the ones you concentrate on." - Poppy Bush

[Jonathan50]

24. NCLB

It requires large amounts of rote memorization and very little in the way of critical thinking skills.

The most critical part of a child's education is teaching them *how* to think. Once they learn that the rest is just a question of feeding them the information they need to think about.

My method of teaching leans toward the Socratic, I ask leading questions. It used to drive my daughter crazy when I was helping her with schoolwork because I would never provide the answers but rather only ask questions to help lead her to the answer. It only took about ten times as long and twenty times as much effort on my part but it paid off in the long run.

Nowadays, she is a stay at home mother of three and taking college courses online and doing very well at it. She thanks me for my persistence now.

[Faux pas]

25. Definition of NCLB please? I guess I missed that class.

Yes, thinking would be a really nice thing to be teaching. Like I said previously, teachers ain't what they used to be. Dumbed down teachers= dumbed down students.

Love you graphics! I'm stealing them, k?

[Jonathan50]

28. No Child Left Behind

They're not my graphics, I just happened to find them one day whilst web surfing and thought they were truly great.

They are styled after the old "Soviet Realism" posters from the USSR.

I like to think of them as "Conservative Realism".

[Faux pas]

33. Of course, no child left behind. It didn't click in because

it's a misnomer, or hoax, or whatever you want to call it. It's more like all-your-children-will-be-left-in-the-dust.

Conservative realism fits perfectly. I did still them and will be passing them to friends. You happen to remember the site where you found them? Quite a find.

[Jonathan50]

38. Here you go...

http://www.kirktoons.com/

[Faux pas]

56. Oops, I answered myself. LOL Anyway, thank you very much.

Checking it out as I'm typing.

[Faux pas]

55. Thank you very much. I'm going to check it out right now. n/t

[Raksha]

27. I just read the whole thing. It's a bit long-winded and repetitious

(he could have used a good editor!) but his heart is definitely in the right place and his thesis is absolutely true. We ARE being conditioned into passive, mindless consumerism and acquiescence, and it's been going on for generations. Some people seem to be naturally resistant (many here on DU), but the vast majority fall into the trap before they are old enough to know it's there. How to wake them up and de-condition or deprogram them? Is it even possible?

[Faux pas]

63. Good questions, wish I had the answers. n/t

[Ezlivin]

83. Prose too purple, too much passive voice

I agree: An editor would tighten this up.

[CK_John]

30. This is the biggest myth and should be listed as an urban legend.

In the past school had one function. That was to create a male body ready to function in a plant in small town USA or a female body to create more drones.

Look around today most 16 yr olds spend 100 a month or more on cell phones, iPods,etc. They communicate with each other very well and often via text message, MySpace, YouTube etc. We may not understand them because they talk to people all over the world and we still talk only to the folks we meet in the supermarket, unless we still have a 30 year old feud going on.

The college kids created all these internet channels and sold them for billions. They didn't give them to GE, IBM, DuPont,etc for a gold watch and a pat on the back.

They understand this economy. Example: My friends'college student's said,"If they are stupid enough to send me credit cards they better be smart enough to not expect to get paid on a regular basis".

Most all the 20's and 30's in our town drive cars less than 2 yrs old and live in 150,000 homes, all new, no fixer ups for this crowd. Do they worry about subPrime loans. No, because they know if they were the only one it would be a problem but if everybody is in foreclosure the banks will come up with 200yr mortgages or some our gimmicks to save face.

They may have to move but look at it as a house shuffle game. They understand money is only a concept and they are great at working together when needed to make a buck.

On politics, they also thing it is a game and will only get involved when needed.

Don't worry about the kids they will do fine.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

42. The fact that they consider this self-centeredness and superficiality to be

"doing fine" is as much of a symptom of the dumbing down of America as anything else.

Furthermore, I'm a former college professor, and you can't tell me that the average young American is a fluent communicator. Too many of teens and twentysomethings sound as if they learned to talk at the George W. Bush School of Elocution.

[CK_John]

43. They understand "value" vs money. Then understand social

connections. They understand what they don't need to understand. They know when to call a geek when they need one. They know how to play a sales people. They understand systems and how to cut through red tape. They understand the "new world". We don't and keep getting bogged down in trivia. We worry about long division and they worry about string theory.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

47. And they're going to understand string theory without math?

Very clever people indeed!

Considering the number of gung ho Republican youth I met during my teaching career, youth who were big Reagan fans because they thought he was "cool," or the youth I heard on the bus just after the beginning of the Iraq invasion, who said that they loved Cheney because "he doesn't take shit from anyone," I'd say that there's a large portion of that age group that is lacking critical thinking skills, as well as facts to apply those skills to.

[riverdeep]

59. Exactly

"The fact that they consider this self-centeredness and superficiality to be 'doing fine' is as much of a symptom of the dumbing down of America as anything else."

Totally agree. And bringing MySpace into the arguement as counterexample of stupidifying I don't think works-'I'm Tina and I don't care what you say I'm totally hawt! No posers allowed bitches!'

I remember before the tech bubble burst people in turtle necks and wire-rimmed glasses telling me how the rules had completely changed. Some of them still say it when I tell them how many copies I need.

[riverdeep]

61. I've got 'Idiocracy'

on order, can't wait. It basically shows our society they say in something like 500 years but I'm thinking more like 30.

[lectrobyte]

67. Not sure how that movie ever got made, much less released, but

even as it is, well worth seeing. Brawndo! Ow, my balls!

[MedleyMisty]

46. Are these upper middle class white kids?

Because I'm 26, and I look around and I don't see anyone my age with a new house and a new car. When I worked at Arby's with people my age and younger, they either still lived at home, roomed with friends, or had a room that they paid for by the week at a cheap motel. And if they did have a car, it was an older one.

[CK_John]

49. Yes.

[Jonathan50]

50. I've been communicating with people all over the world....

Since the days of Atari computers and 300 baud acoustic modems.

Look around today most 16 yr olds spend 100 a month or more on cell phones, iPods,etc. They communicate with each other very well and often via text message, MySpace, YouTube etc. We may not understand them because they talk to people all over the world and we still talk only to the folks we meet in the supermarket, unless we still have a 30 year old feud going on.

I'm fifty six years old and I got my first computer in 1982, it was a Sinclair ZX81. Since then I've been through Trash80, ColorComputer, Commodore64, Atari800, 386 clone, 486 clone, pentium 120 and so on and so on, everything after the pentium 120 I built myself.

Only the sixteen year olds whose parents are relatively wealthy are spending big bucks on cell phones and the other stuff you mention.

[Faux pas]

52. Yeah, sure, ya betcha. Going into debt as a way of life is not

what I'd call good math. Being greedy and dishonest is the way to go? The kids may be 'fine', I'm worried about the ones they'll be screwing over, shuffling houses and ditching out on credit card bills. No morals values or conscience is not something to admire, sorry.

[Raksha]

40. Probably the single WORST thing about the dumbing-down of America

is the common perception that "He's the president, so he can do whatever he wants." Where on earth do people get this idea? They may understand on a superficial level that the president of the United States is not a king, but I have heard this assertion so often I wonder how anyone with even an elementary education, even a GED for crying out loud, ever managed to pass high school civics. Or whether they even took high school civics, or even heard of it!

Even my own mother fell into this trap, and she was by no means an uneducated woman, and definitely NOT stupid. AND she was a lifelong Democrat whose parents worshipped the ground FDR walked on, and so did she.

I'm a little bit embarrassed to tell this story, but it seems relevant and I've never forgotten it since it happened. It was in 1973 during the Watergate hearings, and we were at the Tandy's leather store that used to be at the corner of Vermont and Wilshire in Los Angeles. I don't remember what we were shopping for, but my mother wasn't a crafter and wouldn't have been there on her own.

The possibility of Nixon's impeachment had lately come up and that's what we were talking about. My mother said, "They can't impeach him; he's the president!" I just kind of stood there with my mouth hanging open. She hadn't even voted for the bastard!

"That's who impeachment is for," I said. "The president and the vice-president." In my shock I forgot all about the other members of the executive branch. "Do you really think the president should be above the law?"

She answered me SOOOO clearly and emphatically: "To a certain extent, Linda--YES."

To this day, I don't know why I didn't pass out on the spot. If I hadn't been born at home I would have suspected I'd been switched at birth! My own mother and not even a Republican...good grief!

So now we've had over 30 years for the brainwashing and indoctrination to become even more deeply ingrained in the American population than it was in 1973. Does the younger generation even have a clue what the Constitution is all about? I really wonder sometimes.

[Jonathan50]

44. It's not just kids and it's not just the Constitution

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2006/06/15/colbert-interview-shows-t_n_23111.html


Colbert Interview Shows Ten Commandments Bill Sponsor Can Only Name Three..

Crooks And Liars | Posted June 15, 2006 08:47 PM

Colbert was priceless last night. His guest was Republican Congressman Lynn Westmoreland and I guess he never heard of The Colbert Report before. He will now...

Colbert: What are the Ten Commandments?

Westmoreland: You mean all of them?--Um... Don't murder. Don't lie. Don't steal Um... I can't name them all.


Watch it here:

http://gorillamask.net/colbert10c.shtml

[Faux pas]

53. Yeah, being 'the president' does not elevate someone to

super human status, and surely doesn't make them perfect nor infallible. I don't understand how or why people can believe this to be true.

I remember Tandy's leather, lived in SoCal most of my life. That's until I moved to God's country....

[Raksha]

60. That Tandy's store is long gone, like a lot of other things.

I'm still in SoCal, but in a less exciting part of it (San Bernardino, all I can afford here). But I'll never forget that conversation. Sheesh, my own mother, and a Democrat...fortunately, my kids seem to have inherited my critical thinking skills, assuming they can be inherited. My husband and I taught them never to kowtow to authority, and the Watergate experience was a big part of our motivation. That and the Vietnam war.

[Faux pas]

62. I lived in Ontario most of my life. When we went to the 'big city'

we mostly cruised SanBerdoo, LOL it was closer and less scary.

I'm sorry for your embarrassment over what you Mom said. I'm surprised you didn't disappear into the floor. I probably would have.

Being able to think for yourself and not get hooked into what 'others' think makes for an easier conscience and harder life. Hope your kids grow up and kick some con ass, figuratively, of course.

[Jonathan50]

73. There is certainly a heritable component of intelligence...

If that were not so, intelligence would never have evolved in the first place..

Interestingly, in Jungian typology there are certain personality types who are more predisposed to logic and critical thinking than most. My own type Intuitive iNtroverted Thinking Perceptor or INTP happens to be the most likely to think logically, but we are rare at only one percent of the population.

If you would like to know more about Jungian typology and the Myers Briggs Type Indicator or MBTI take the personality test at the website below:

http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

[MedleyMisty]

91. I'm a hardcore INFP myself

[treestar]

71. I'm with you on this; my pet peeve is when the President is referred to

as "running the country." No one person runs the U.S., dammit! I explain about the three branches as patiently as I can.

You also can hear people saying things that would tend to indicate that they believe the U.S. is already a police state, and are only angry or surprised to find out it's not: when they express surprise that the states have any power at all, and think they are just conduits for federal power, when they are surprised there is already no national I.D. or shocked than any crime can be committed at all, because apparently the government should have big brother powers to prevent crime - they really think the government is responsible for their safety. They tend to see not problem with a law that can lead to a police state, as long as they are under the perception that it could prevent a single crime.

[bridgit]

51. hold up!! this is news...

:shrug:

[BoneDaddy]

65. 1 person out of 5

is functionally illiterate in this country. 1 out of 3 is functionally illiterate in Washington DC. Unbelievably pathetic.

[Faux pas]

69. I believe there's a connection btwn illiteracy and crime.

Doesn't DC have an unbelievably high crime rate too? (not talking about government crime or illiteracy-lol).

[cgrindley]

70. Federal standards for graduation

we need to properly fund and support NCLB and work towards increasing the minimum requirements, not to mention tightening up the way schools escape reporting requirements. I would suggest moving school funding to a federal tax, distributing the money raised equally and nationalizing all private schools. A strong federal education system with rigorous minimum standards is needed. The current patchwork funded by unfair property taxes only encourages inequality. The current NCLB standards are idiotically easy.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

77. But NCLB is PART OF the dumbing down of America

It emphasizes taking tests rather than learning how to learn or loving learning.

At worst, the survivors of NCLB end up technically proficient in reading and math but so bored by the drudgery of learning to take tests that they'll never open a book after they finish school.

Another bad side effect of NCLB is that it turns learning into a nerve-wracking experience, since the kids know that their school's funding depends on how well they score. Why don't we just revert to the old custom of beating the kids if they don't know their lessons? :sarcasm:

Teachers say that NCLB takes all the fun and creativity out of teaching and doesn't let teachers adapt material for different learning styles, something that I learned was very important when I taught on the college level. You can use the methodology that is touted as the "latest great thing," but if it doesn't match the student's learning style, it will fail. Furthermore, the method has to fit the teacher's personality, or the teacher's efforts will come off as forced and strained.

Some schools even forbid teachers to teach anything but reading and math until the tests are over. That's the way to create informed citizens, right? :sarcasm:

If I were educational czarina, I'd set the goals for each grade and each subject in general and practical terms and leave it up to each teacher how to meet those goals. I'd maintain standards by having school inspectors make surprise visits and look over examples of the students' work. Class sizes would be capped at 15 on the elementary level and at 25 on the secondary level. If a school had a lot of students from troubled backgrounds or with limited English, class sizes would be capped at 10 for elementary and 20 for secondary.

Teachers would be paid well, starting at least as well as a beginning management trainee, with a bonus for difficult schools, but they would have to meet strict academic standards before being licensed and their training would include a year of practice teaching under an experienced teacher, but little in the way of educational theory courses.

If money was a problem, I'd cut inter-school sports, which were introduced into the curriculum in the nineteenth century because the Victorians believed that it would keep boys' minds off sex and leave them too tired to masturbate. (I'm not making this up. The Victorians were obsessed with masturbation.) Instead of inter-school sports, which train a minority of students, I'd have real physical education classes aimed at raising the fitness level of every student.

The perceived non-physical benefits of sports (teamwork, responsibility, self-discipline) could be just as easily obtained through intramural sports or participation in other extra-curricular activities, which unlike football and basketball, can be participated in for a lifetime.

Oh, and sports as an escape from the ghetto? You've seen Hoop Dreams and you still believe that bit of propaganda? Take it from one who used to be a college instructor. A black or Latino youth with a good academic record (A's in solid subjects) will find college recruiters begging him to enroll.

[cgrindley]

79. Pretty good ideas

I'd probably separate the sexes. I think that current pedagogies don't work for male patterns of learning. Look, for example, at gender differences in assessment when formal exam scores are compared to classroom grades (well, at least in Canada). Boys do much better in rigid exams than they do in the classroom.

I've published on NCLB as far as history is concerned. It's mostly motivated by the right idea. It's just really poorly implemented, badly funded, and too randomly monitored.

But me, I'm pretty much always going to be the one arguing for more regulation.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

82. If you talk to someone who went to an old-fashioned boys' school

you'll find that the "male-oriented atmosphere" did NOT consist of high-pressure standardized testing but a very hierarchical structure (quasi-military, in many cases), rigid rules of classroom behavior, and a heavy dose of academic CONTENT, such as history, literature, classical languages, and science.

The teachers didn't just drill the boys in phonics and tell them that the future of their school depended on their passing a bunch of bureaucratic tests. They got the basic skills part over with early and had the boys read and discuss challenging material, which is actually the best way to improve one's reading skills and which ultimately affects a student's writing skills and spoken vocabulary.

Ironically, in the nineteenth century, being an intellectual was considered a very masculine trait, not like today, where it is considered socially undesirable. Boys' schools emphasized Latin, Greek, and math, while girls' schools emphasized French conversation and needlework, and commentators seriously worried that allowing woman to puruse "masculine" subjects would make them unable to have children.

[cgrindley]

84. Quite true

my dad tested into a fancy school in the UK just after the war. He still remembers passages from Caesar's Gallic Wars in Latin. Things were a lot more rigid back then and I can't help but think that young men today would do a little better in a more structured environment. The whole classroom dynamic was changed because it was claimed that a lot of young women did not rise to their full potential in that rigid system, but now, I think that it's boys who suffer.

When I was a kid, we used to brutally punish the kids who did well in school. Getting A grades was probably the worst thing you could do.

[Jonathan50]

81. Marching band provides all those non physical benefits

And music can be a life long pursuit..

Disclaimer: I was a band parent for four years.

[cgrindley]

85. Band is great

everyone should know how to read and write music and know how to play a few instruments.

[BreweryYardRat]

87. You're shitting me, right?

I couldn't grasp the principles of music for the life of me. Ditto for playing instruments.

Love listening to music, though. I've got everything from Iron Maiden to Antonio Vivaldi on my hard drive. One of my favorite CDs (which disappeared a couple years back, unfortunately) was a collection of variations on Pachelbel's Canon in D played on non-standard instruments.

[cgrindley]

89. No

Reading and writing music should be part of a standard curriculum, and everyone should know how to play an instrument or two. Why not guitar and piano? Flute and drums? Clarinet and timpani?

I don't think that it increases your IQ or nothing (the so-called Mozart effect has been thoroughly refuted out the ying yang), but learning about music and its production is guaranteed NOT to make a person dumber.

I think that musical literacy--especially at a young age--is way more important than technological literacy.

[Jonathan50]

98. Being able to play a musical instrument well...

Is heavily dependent on manual dexterity. If you aren't dextrous, you'll never play well.

I suspect that there are more than a few people with great musical talent who simply lack the dexterity to play well.

[cgrindley]

99. I never said well

I've played guitar for 20 years and I stink out loud. It's still fun.

[Thothmes]

80. Nationalize private schools

I agree with much of what you say however,if you check the constitution, the federal government is not specified roll in education. The roll they have is as a disburser of money. With the money comes rules. To do as you propose would require an amendment to the Constitution. I strongly disagree with nationalizing private schools. Again, this flies in the face of the Constitution.

[cgrindley]

86. The existence of private schools

merely encourages the upper middle and upper classes to opt out of public education. It encourages them a) not to care about the system, b) limit their involvement as parents in it, and c) motivates all these public assaults on school funding measures.

I know nationalizing the private schools can't be done. I know that the federal government can't utterly control education. But a boy can hope can't he?

[donco6]

96. The standards are easy?

Did you know that the largest single reason schools don't make adequate yearly progress on NCLB is because they didn't get their SPECIAL EDUCATION students to make enough growth on the standards-based tests?

In case you didn't realize, special ed kids are classified that way for a reason.

[Initech]

75. Movie recommendation: "Idiocracy"

It's from the same guys who made "Office Space" and it takes the idea of the dumbing-down of America and pushes it to the extremes. And what's funny is that when people are quick to point out how stupid the movie is, they're only furthering the point that they're trying to make!

[qwlauren35]

76. In one word...

TELEVISION.

[Jonathan50]

78. I am the slime......... Frank Zappa

I am gross and perverted
Im obsessed n deranged
I have existed for years
But very little had changed
I am the tool of the government
And industry too
For I am destined to rule
And regulate you

I may be vile and pernicious
But you cant look away
I make you think Im delicious
With the stuff that I say
I am the best you can get
Have you guessed me yet?
I am the slime oozin out
From your tv set

You will obey me while I lead you
And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we dont need you
Dont got for help...no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled
It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told
Until the rights to you are sold

Thats right, folks..
Dont touch that dial

Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin along on your livinroom floor

I am the slime from your video
Cant stop the slime, people, lookit me go


Watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TrIYQNMhxnI

[BreweryYardRat]

88. Bill Watterson had a great comment on this:

"Karl Marx hadn't seen anything yet."

For every great show (Heroes, Battlestar Galactica, Titus) or good show (Stargate, Special Unit 2, Law and Order), there's three different varieties of crap.

[BreweryYardRat]

90. I've said it before, I'll say it again.

Clear the pork and corruption out of the defense budget, and we could pay for universal health care and vast educational improvements without having to lessen our combat effectiveness at all.

[joe_sixpack]

93. 5 out of 4 people have serious trouble with fractions...

But seriously. Think about what it means to a young mind to be able to occupy every waking hour with some activity. No space for silence or deep thought, where many learning revelations take place. I watch young folks in cars around me in traffic who pick up their cell phones at a stop light because that thirty seconds of idleness drives them crazy. Sure, they become talented at texting with the thumb of one hand, but have you really listened to what their multitude of conversations consist of? Basically, it's them telling each other "I can't stand the sound of silence or of my own thoughts, so I want to fill my head up with someone else's voice, even if that voice doesn't have anything interesting or new to say." When they're at home, they have the most realistic video games or 200 cable channels to occupy them and if that still bores them, (which it will do eventually) they can go online and waste time in another million ways. I'm not saying that technology doesn't have its benefits or that there aren't kids using it in productive ways. But,for the most part, we've created an over hyped, over wired society where kids can't even stand to relax in a room in silence and read something without a television and a stereo and a computer on. The one benefit I can see, is that it makes them good at multi-tasking so they'll make good computer drones who can quickly manipulate data and shuffle shallowly from one form of input device to another. But it's not going to create many deep thinkers.