Public support for auto bailout is low.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

I just saw on CNN a poll showing that 61% of Americans oppose it. I think this is largely due to the dismal results of the financial institution bailout and the testimony of those shameless jetsetting CEOs before Congress.

Last night Rachel Maddow had an auto union rep on and he was great. He explained why the auto industry and the jobs it provides are so vital to our country. He also put to rest those idiotic claims that auto workers are making huge wages. If more people like him were visible to Americans support for a loan to the auto companies would go up. If they really want help, then the automakers need to have workers go before Congress and sell the idea to the American people. No one has any sympathy for millionaire CEOs begging for a handout. People need to see the single moms faced with losing their jobs and retirees faced with losing pensions. They need to understand just how many jobs and industries will be impacted. CNN said that only a third of Americans believe that the loss of the automakers will affect them personally. The other 2/3 have no idea what they're in for. But they need to stop sending CEOs to speak for it!

Oh wait...there's a group of auto workers speaking on CNN right now! Good.

[gratuitous]

1. This is why the UAW should have testified

Instead, we get the clueless CEOs whose only worry is where they can get another phony-baloney job that will pay them millions of dollars annually to run a company into the ground.

[Romulox]

2. They're setting up Detroit as the sacrificial lamb to take attention off of the Wall Street bailout.

Nobody can tell me what the labor costs at AIG or Citibank are. Or how their CEOs get around.

That's odd, don't you think? :shrug:

[napoleon_in_rags]

6. We should be calling this the 3.5% bailout.

Because its 3.5% the size of the bailout that went to rich bankers with nobody complaining.

[ben_meyers]

3. Maybe people are asking themselves who is going to

purchase all these vehicles that the auto companies are going to continue to produce. Car companies world wide are in trouble, aren't they going to run out of room to store all that production. I've read that there is a 15 month supply of new cars and trucks at "normal" sales levels already. Do they need to build more?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

4. True, but that's a temporary condition, mostly brought on by credit contraction

It's not that people don't want to buy vehicles, they do. They either can't get financing or aren't feeling secure enough about the economy to make a major purchase. I just can't see letting such an important industry go under because of a temporary economic crisis.

[The2ndWheel]

9. Perhaps the last 80 years or so has been the temporary condition

Geologically speaking. Maybe they do want to buy vehicles, but can't. Maybe the financing and security brought on by credit was an illusion. Maybe such an important industry shouldn't have been built up because of a temporary economic boom.

Or maybe not. I guess we'll find out.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. How very existential of you. nt

[The2ndWheel]

26. Just a human behaving humanly

[hendo]

27. or maybe

the american auto industry should have been quicker to learn from the Japanese auto industry. if the big 3 would heve paid closer attention to Toyota and Honda we might actually have more efficient cars that were a lot less expensive than what we have now.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

29. Japan also developed massive public transit along with their auto industry

Something we didn't do here.

[hendo]

30. yup

but I was referring more to Japanese vehicles in the US.

The japanese subways are a fun ride, assuming you dont like personal space. I almost lost a foot when i was boarding a train at Shinjuku station when I was out there a few years ago.

[ben_meyers]

14. Are you sure it's a temporary condition?

Possibly the current situation has be made worse by economic conditions, but the American auto industry has been in decline for years.

Just use UAW membership numbers as a small example. UAW membership has been in decline since its peak in 1979 when they had over 1.5 million members, today that number us under 500,000. 40 years and 1,000,000 lost jobs. Like it or not, that is an industry in a downward spiral.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

13. Also, since automakers from all other countries are stockpiling inventory

Should they all let their auto industries go under too? Maybe there should just be no more carmakers, anywhere. We can just make do with the vehicles that are currently on the Earth right now. :shrug:

[ben_meyers]

18. Asian car makers are shutting down production and laying off

workers, Japanese steel plants are canceling ore and coke contracts and US STEEL is closing the Keewatin taconite operation in Minnesota. Yet "we" are looking for ways to continue producing unwanted and unneeded cars in this country? Maybe that's why the polls aren't showing a lot of support.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

21. So are we. Yes, there needs to be a slow down of production

Maybe a complete stoppage for a while. But that is NOT the same as letting a massive industry go under, permanently.

[LisaM]

5. It's because of how it's been framed - and unions have been getting slammed for years

The guest on Rachel Maddow was actually a representative of the United Steel Workers - which drives home the point that the ripple effect from the breakdown of the auto industry would be chilling.

What the media is failing to point out is that all the car companies are stockpiling inventory. There was some picture of a virtual parking lot of Japanese imports in California, with more cars continuing to arrive! But other countries are helping to save, not ruin, their industries.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. That's right, it was the steel industry he represented. nt

[MadHound]

7. It's not that people want to see the auto industry fail

However after having watched the disaster of the Wall St. bailout, many folks don't want to give a blank check either. A lot of people like myself would like to see the bailout go through under the incoming Obama administration rather than the Bush administration, because we simply don't trust Bushco to do the right thing.

Also, GM really doesn't help itself by stating that it needs X billion now, X billion in three months, X billion in six months, oh and X billion as a line of credit.

[Romulox]

8. Citi was forward $45 Billion in handouts, and another $300 billion in debt underwriting

during the period that a Big 3 bailout was being considered, with almost zero comment or fanfare (certainly no hearings--how does the CEO of Citi get around anyhow? :shrug: )

Your theory doesn't hold water.

[MadHound]

10. Umm most of that 45 billion comes from the original bailout package

Since our spineless Congress already approved that money, we really had very little say. People feel that they have more say in the Big 3 bailout, and they're speaking their mind.

Oh, and take a look at this article. It's saying many of the same things I did, just in a different manner. <http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/03/us/03michigan.html?_r=1&ref=us>

[Romulox]

15. Nonsense. There was an ADDITIONAL $300 billion in loan guarantees issued

[MadHound]

22. A loan guarantee isn't the same as handing out money

It's more akin to cosigning on a loan.

[Romulox]

25. It's nevertheless a financial obligation that DWARFS any potential Big 3 bailout

And yet no media outrage, no Congressional hearings, and I still don't know how Citibank's CEO gets from place to place!

[Robbien]

16. Again. Just another poll stating results that coincide with

what the Chamber of Commerce types want.

I see the word poll and immediately wonder who paid to push this opinion out there.

[anonymous171]

17. It's because the corporate media, who had no problem with the financial group bailout

used their influence to turn the public against it. CNN is not very union friendly, if I recall correctly.

[Romulox]

20. You nailed it. nt

[OhioChick]

19. Most people watch only snippets on the news...

They don't realize that over 30+ million will lose their jobs should the Big 3 go under.

[EFerrari]

23. That's hard to believe. Imho, it's more like this poll is part of a sales campaign

to bring down public approval of this bailout. :shrug:

[LSK]

24. its not a bailout, its a LOAN

But once again the media is completely worthless in their reporting the facts.

[marlakay]

33. Don't believe that for a second...they are close to bankruptcy

and the loan is to get them out just for a few months hoping they will sell more cars. Things are not looking good in the future at all and most likely they are just putting off bankruptcy. Look closely at their eyes, you know they know they are lying. The "loan" will NEVER be paid back and they know this and a bunch of other people know it also which is why no one is taking this "loan" seriously.

My daughter is a manager for a car place. Her boss owns 5 of them. For the past two years sales on GM have gone down down down to where nothing nada is selling now. They had to lay off a bunch of people. She said only thing selling is her small hondas which they can't keep in stock.

The big 3 know this, they have been just gliding along stupidly for years.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. partly it is the language used, it is a loan

partly it is this nation is breaking into regions and people don't care what happens somewhere else any more, We saw this first during Katrina.

[Hanse]

31. Good. I don't support it either.

I support the workers, but the companies can go fuck themselves.

GM wants 18 billion from us tax payers, and they're only worth 3 billion.

I say buy up the company and put those workers to work making cars that people want to buy. The CEOs can take their corporate jet on a flight straight to hell.

[marlakay]

32. All three of those auto people were chicken and too scared

to say anything about the management of their company. All were afraid of losing either job, pension or benefits.

They were asked about making big cars and they said its not that big. No shit thats what he said. I told my husband people in most of the middle states love those big cars. How in the hell are we going to get them to give them up?

The reason the polls said that was they were all people online taking the polls. Talk to all the people who don't have computers who just loves them some big trucks and they would say bail it out.