Do you think this is child abuse?

[Danmel]

A friend related the following story to me;

A woman has a four year old boy who started Kindergarten. He made the cut-off and turned 5 in October.

The kid pooped in his pants a few times and she had to get him from school

She also has an older kid and is married.

Anyway she told the kid she was so angry with him that she didn't want to have to look at him and wasn't coming home.

She spent the night at her parents house instead. (She is the youngest of 5 or 7 or something)

I find this seriously disturbing- who would do something like that to a 4 year old? Mommy can't stand to look at you.



Gives me the willies.

[Fed_Up_Grammy]

1. It is certainly mental abuse. What the hell is the matter with this

woman?

God !!!

[Orrex]

2. Abuse? Possibly. Fucked up and inexcusable juvenile? Definitely.

I understand how the stress of an extreme moment can cause even a devoted parent to lapse now and again, but that hardly justifies fleeing from the child.

[gollygee]

3. Yes, it is emotionally abusive

Our biggest job as parents is to make sure our kids know they are unconditionally loved. That is awful. :(

[Zywiec]

4. Not sure about child abuse

but the time between school and the time to spend the night at her parent's house should have cooled her off. Definitely disturbing.

[sandnsea]

5. Definitely dysfunctional

Abuse should only be used when removal from a home is required. Maybe if we were a little more judicious with that word, we would be able to save more children from real injury and death. Being so mad you don't want to look at a child, is okay for a few minutes. But to not come home at all is horrible. Poor kid having to go through that. No wonder the kid has control issues.

[tblue]

6. Yes. There's something wrong with her. I'd be inclined to call CPS.

Why people insist on sending their 4 year olds to school is beyond me. Is it that they just can't wait to get them good and gone? Maybe it's just me. I have such an attachment to my kid, I've dreaded the day he goes off to college since before he was born.

[gollygee]

10. Yeah this would seem to be a sign that he should have waited to start till next year

I would think that would be the answer to this problem - pull him out and start him over again in the fall.

I've known people who send their kids before the kids are ready because it's like free babysitting or something. :(

[tblue]

15. But the mom needs some intervention if she's pulling this mental abuse crap on the little guy

Poor baby! I could not imagine punishing anyone for pooping in their pants! He's not an effing adult! And even if he was, is that the way you fix the problem? He's gonna be emotionally scarred already from this. There's something seriously wrong with that woman. Makes me wonder in what other ways she's tried to teach her kid a lesson. Strange and awful. things go on behind closed doors. I'd call the authorities and make sure somebody checked it out before the mental abuse or worse goes on.

[gollygee]

17. Yeah it would be good if they'd talk to her at least

All abuse is emotional abuse really. If a kid breaks his arm when playing, it's different than if a parent breaks his arm, so it isn't the arm break that's abuse - it's the emotional stuff behind the arm break. That's why emotional abuse is just as damaging as most physical abuse. It's really awful but hard to prove. Poor little guy. :( If they at least talk to her, maybe they can scare her into taking a parenting class or something.

[notadmblnd]

19. I know how you feel. I never want my baby (15) to leave me

I adore him, he's the light of my life, my reason for living. Why, oh why do people hate kids?

[tblue]

24. I think they probably really actually hate themselves.

But it's the kids who often pay. I have an inlaw who walked out on her kids and never looked back, and she lives only a few miles away. The damage to those kids is immeasurable.

We're a sad lot, us humans, sometimes. I love my kid so much, I probably err more in that direction.

[liberalmuse]

7. That is probably why he messed his pants in the first place.

My daughter started having 'accidents' when I went into the Army, after having been potty trained a little after she was 1. She stayed with my sister while I was away. If I had the choice to do it again, I would not have gone into the reserves and left my daughter for 5 months for basic training. I actually thought I was doing the best thing for her, and thought this would be something that would help me provide for her better, but I was dead wrong. Whenever I would go to the field for two weeks, or to my unit that one weekend a month, my daughter would have an 'accident'. She was around 3 at the time. A child peeing or pooping their pants at that age is a sign of some kind of emotional disturbance. A parent should not aggravate that even more by laying guilt on the child. Ironically, it is that parent's actions in the first place that are directly responsible for the 'accidents'. Yes, it is child abuse. Dear god, if we only understood the beauty of every single soul. No parent has the right to do that to a precious soul--that soul does not belong to them. I wish people understood how very important it is to behave like a responsible, rational adult when you choose to have children.

[patrice]

8. Yes. And it's just the tip of the iceberg.

Sad. Think of how they'll continue to "function". Their lives will go forward; child will grow up, maybe even be considered "successful" in terms of keeping up with the Joneses, but throughout all of it, coloring every second, every act, every interaction, coloring everything will be the poison of Pain.

[deadmessengers]

9. I'm really trying not to judge.

We're only hearing one side of this story. We don't know what else was happening in that parent's life that day, or if the gossip-phone might have played a little fast and loose with the facts. In the absence of physical (including sexual) abuse, I'm inclined to give a parent the benefit of the doubt here, and not line up to judge them for something like this.

So, to answer your question: Was it child abuse? Maybe. Maybe not. Who knows, really?

[patrice]

13. SHE'S THE "GROWNUP". It WAS abusive. nt

[tblue]

16. Yeah. Susan Smith and that lady who drowned her 5 kids were having a bad day, too.

There's NO excuse for this mom's behavior. None.

I'm in total agreement with you, patrice.

[patrice]

27. She's justifying the emotional cruelty with her own circumstantial needs:

"need" to work; "need" not to waste time; "need" support; "need" to get on to the next task; "need" a clean child; "need" . . . All of this makes the cruelty acceptable to her and others and they're WRONG.

The "grown up" being of (supposedly) superior knowledge and understanding has, BY FAR, the greater part of the responsibility to solve the problem appropriately. I taught highschool; you'd be surprised how many people don't understand this.

I was lucky enough to raise my own children around their many cousins (not with different bunches of peers who were strangers with different sets of values). They had good effect upon one another without the stresses of being siblings. I also had my brothers and sisters to learn parenting with.

[Danmel]

25. She told this to my friend

It was the other side, if you will.

I can't iamgine what the husband must be like to tolerate his wife not only not coming home, but telling the 4 year old that her desire to not look at him was the reason.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. If you mean something she can be arrested for probably not.

If you mean something she should be beaten for definitely. You always have the option of calling Child Protective Services or whatever it is in your state.

David

[David Zephyr]

12. This instance may not be child abuse, but it may be a signal of abuse that is happening by her.

I find your story very chilling.

No adult should ever speak to a child in that manner. Ever.

What troubles me is that, while this instance may not exactly be child abuse, it signals that the woman is disturbed and there is a strong liklihood that this instance was one that was publicly witnessed while what is done in secret may not be. That is what is chiling.

This would be what an individual in Quality Control would call a random sampling. This random sampling of extremely troubling behaviour by an adult with a very vulnerable child is enough to signal that this is probably the tip of an iceberg of abuse.

Calling the child services would not be a bad idea. You are not making an accusation. But the situation merits some investigation...for the child's sake.

[tblue]

20. Here's the definition of child abuse. You tell me.

Emotional child abuse takes many forms, in words and in actions.

Words. Examples of how words can hurt include constant belittling, shaming, and humiliating a child, calling names and making negative comparisons to others, or constantly telling a child he or she is “no good," "worthless," "bad," or "a mistake." How the words are spoken can be terrifying to a child as well, such as yelling, threatening, or bullying.

Actions. Basic food and shelter may be provided, but withholding love and affection can have devastating effects on a child. Examples include ignoring or rejecting a child, giving him or her the silent treatment. Another strong component of emotional abuse is exposing the child to inappropriate situations or behavior. Especially damaging is witnessing acts that cause a feeling of helplessness and horror, such as in domestic violence or watching another sibling or pet be abused.

/snip
http://www.helpguide.org/mental/child_abuse_physical_emotional_sexual_neglect.htm

[David Zephyr]

34. I'm on your side.

What the OP related was enough for me to suggest that they contact the local child services and have them investigate. I said it was chilling.

There's definitely more going on than what was witnessed publicly.

If this is done in full view of other adults in public, heaven knows what is being done when no one else is looking.

I'm on your side here.

[Crunchy Frog]

14. Sounds like she needs to do more growing up than the kid does.

[notadmblnd]

18. yes, it's abuse

some people shouldn't be allowed to breed

[tblue]

21. In retrospect, Barbara Bush, for one.

[Highway61]

22. Report her to family services

That is the reason WHY he messed his pants...Where the hell is the school on this??? My God.

[Midlodemocrat]

23. Emotional abuse. Report her sorry ass. I would.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

26. Most definately

it is psychological abuse and abandonment. The kid will likely be fearful and repressed now, especially if he and his mother don't get help.

[MadMaddie]

28. So who watched the child?

[Danmel]

30. The father

She also has a 9 or 10 year old girl and seems to like her a whole lot more than she likes the boy.

[MadMaddie]

31. Well at least the child was safe.

The mother has issues.

[uppityperson]

29. I hope she gets some mental health help as sounds like she is needing some.

Not saying she is nuts, but that she sounds, at the minimum, unable to deal with common occurrences in the life of being a parent.

[Lil Missy]

32. It's most certainly serious emotional abuse. n/t

[Maestro]

33. She is the one who is effed in the head.

That is some mighty fine parenting there. :sarcasm:

[lady raven]

35. I agree. I wonder if she might be depressed. n/t

[applegrove]

36. That sounds awful.

[bertman]

37. Probably something she learned from her mom. Redneck parenting technique.

I wouldn't be surprised if she thought that emotional battering technique was better than a "whippin'".

Remember in one of those Steve Martin Father of the Bride movies when super-stoner Keanu Reeves says to his new mother-in-law "you have to have a license to drive a car, but anybody can have a baby"? Oh the irony.

[sofa king]

38. I had a strange thing happen to me a while back.

As I was going through my personal papers, I found a letter with my name on it, which said, "read this."

It was from me. I couldn't remember writing it.

The letter more or less said, you've been forgetting something all these years, and you think it's important that you try to remember it.

And then the letter went on to recount a summer when I was maybe nine years old. My mother was a substitute teacher and we were very poor, so she took a summer job at a foster home far, far out in the country. I had to go along, and no slack was cut for me. I lived as one of the inmates, with some really, really tough and cruel kids. I was sure that when the summer ended I was going to be left there.

As I read that letter, a kind of fear I'd also completely forgotten swept over me, a paralyzing, nameless, monstrous kind of fear I never felt even when my life was in serious danger as an adult. Just the echo of it is making me shake right now. And in my scariest nightmares, I still have a recurring image of an endless series of empty fields, gray in the middle of the night, in the middle of nowhere: my view out the window of that place as I lay awake, probably just as scared then as I was when I re-lived it, if not more.

I need to point out that aside from the same crap those poor kids were dishing out to each other each day, I was never abused in any way, never told I was going to stay in that place; as best I can tell it was my own idea and I never told it to anyone at the time. And I also need to point out that now it's a very valuable memory to me, and I don't particularly regret it having happened because once I relived it, it gave me just a little bit of insight on the mostly forgotten difficulties of being a child.

I suspect that as we get older and more experienced, we callous over that kind of fear--fear as unbounded as the mind of a child--until we simply can't recognize it anymore, can't empathize with it, and in my case, can't even remember it. I have no idea how much or what kind of damage that incident did to me, but I suspect it was considerable.

Now I think about it often, because I've seen that look once or twice on my niece's face, in those brief instants when she thinks she's alone in the world, and I know that whatever she's feeling is something I don't even have a name for anymore.

You people out there: You think about that the next time you want to teach a kid a lesson like that jerk in the story up there.