Do you support 'right to work' laws?

[Stinky The Clown]

Poll question: Do you support 'right to work' laws?

[The Magistrate]

1. No, Sir: They Are And Always Have Been Mere Union-Busting Swill

[michreject]

19. Aren't the consumer who buy the anti union products

also union busters?

[catnhatnh]

48. Just what in the Didly Fuck are "Anti-Union" products? N/T

[michreject]

68. Nissan

Kia. HONDA. Mitsubishi.

You get the drift.

[catnhatnh]

78. The Drift and the Lie...

unless you prove that Non-Union is defacto Anti-Union...There IS a difference between opposition and competition...if you think the competition is unfair (as I do) then oppose that...Why aren't you opposing right-to-work states instead of consumers???

[madokie]

2. ain't gonna happen

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. You mean right to starve laws don't you?

Right to work is just a way for employers to keep out unions and to keep down wages.

[Sebastian Doyle]

4. Another Orwellian named right wing scam

"right to work (for shitty wages and no benefits)"

[dana_b]

6. I voted "huh?" because

I haven't heard of this before BUT it does sound like right wing double speak.

[patrice]

15. Employees may be fired for organizing a Union.

[ogneopasno]

26. No. A "right to work" state is a state where employment at a union company does not depend

on being a member of that union. An employee can opt out (it's an "open shop") but still get the union benefits.

[patrice]

27. Thanks for the correction. nt

[ogneopasno]

31. You're welcome. It's a common misconception -- I'm all over this thread...:)

[Ichingcarpenter]

35. Its crap scab labor

It was meant to break labor and get cheaper labor for the south

[ogneopasno]

39. Exactly. Lower down I call it "Right to Scab."

Right to Starve, Right to Freeload, whatever -- it's definitely a tool to weaken unions.

[rateyes]

32. Anti-union bullshit laws.

Hampers unions that go on strike because of scabs, etc. Lot of other bullshit, too.

[dana_b]

44. thank you and the other posters

I thought it was some crap like that.

I've been in two unions and both were "closed" so we didn't have to deal with that.

[southpaw]

5. Hell no

Alabama is a 'right to work' state, and it basically means that employees work at the pleasure of their employers.

Essentially, employees have the right to work... but all other rights are reserved for the employers.

[Trajan]

9. My work finally was 'offshored' to Huntsville ....

I was a UAW represented employee in aerospace .... and most production work moved from Southern California to Huntsville this last decade ...

They are finally closing the doors this year ....

Right to work my ass .....

[supernova]

7. Euphemism for "Fire at will"

:grr:

[ogneopasno]

24. Actually, it's not. "At-will" employees can be fired for anything. A "right to work" state means

that if an employer in that state is union, being a member of that union is not a requirement for employment at that company.

[supernova]

34. Except that

it doesn't really work like that in practice.

Too many firms use it as an excuse to avoid union workers, period.

[ogneopasno]

38. Oh, there are open shops all over the place. It definitely weakens unions, of course, and creates

resentment among the workers -- which is exactly what the employers want.

[Ichingcarpenter]

8. Greatest Piece of Propaganda successfully propagated by the Republicans

Sort of like War is Peace. I lived in the south when it was sold as a pro worker
piece of garbage.

[ulysses]

10. where's the "hell no" option?

[ret5hd]

11. Surely some "yes" voter will have the guts to explain their vote, right?

[Lyric]

17. I wouldn't be surprised to find that they are business owners who have employees.

Even progressives tend to protect their own interests; god knows "Right to Work" laws give one hell of an advantage to employers.

[Sebastian Doyle]

52. I can take a pretty good guess of who it might be.

There's a certain small group that always turns up on the threads concerning the possible auto industry bailout, and they would be the ones who hate the fact that the Detroit mfgs (UAW shops) pay so much better than the foreign owned non union shops in southern so called "right to work" states.

[Lyric]

12. I hate misnomers like "right to work."

It REALLY should be called "Right to Fire for Any or No Reason" because that's what it actually IS. They couch it in rationalizations, like "Well your employer can fire you for any reason with no penalty, but you can also quit for any reason." There are two glaring errors in that way of thinking.

1. Other than slavery, when have we ever had a system where people COULDN'T quit at any time for any reason?

2. The "with no penalty" part is not applied equally. Your employer can fire you for any reason without penalty, but you cannot quit for any reason "without penalty," because quitting without a "good reason" disqualifies you for unemployment compensation. That, in and of itself, is a penalty. Where is the similar consequence for employers who fire for stupid reasons? Oh that's right--there ISN'T one.

"Right to Work" is the government's way of enforcing the worst kind of wage slavery.

Edit: Apparently I got my terms confused. Sorry.

[ogneopasno]

29. No, it's not. What you describe is "at will employment," which is different than "right to work."

A "right to work" provision means being a member of a shop union is not a requirement for employment. It's the right to freeload on people who have fought for your wages and benefits without you paying the dues. It's a state upholding the open shop.

[gollygee]

13. People voted yes for this?

Here?

[TahitiNut]

14. Nothing but empowerment of SCABS and exploitation of labor.

Make someone desperate enough and they'll work for less. That's coercion ... extortion ... not a 'right.'

[melody]

16. When has a poor person had the right NOT to work? n/t

[michreject]

18. Somebody likes em

All these Asian car makers built their plants in those states and are not union but yet a bunch of of people buy those POS cars.

[demosincebirth]

20. Every red state is a RTW state

[Gman]

21. The right to work for less

[H2O Man]

22. No. n/t

[ogneopasno]

23. That would be "RIGHT TO SCAB" more like. Or Right to Starve. Union-busting, whatever you call it.

[Jim Sagle]

25. Mods, please shitcan those who voted yes.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. That's just silly.

[Jim Sagle]

45. We don't need anti-union scum here.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. That's a pretty intolerant point of view.

Just to be clear I am a union member.

David

[Jim Sagle]

49. And I'm not. Go figure.

[Hippo_Tron]

60. Some people are not educated about these issues

And may know very little except the right wing propaganda they have heard. I didn't know what "right to work" laws were when I first came to DU years ago. Rather than have the mods ban them it would serve everyone better to share our opinions with them.

[Jim Sagle]

64. Good point.

Even Bill Clinton, who was a decent President in many ways, didn't have much of a feel for unions and their issues.

It's just that we're hurting so bad as a nation right now, and anti-union ideas helped make it that way.

[rateyes]

28. Where is the choice

Hell no!!?

[Cerridwen]

30. Nope. I, too am waiting to see if any of the 'yes' voters have the guts

to post their reasoning here.

Posted in the wrong place, but...oh well.

:hi: Hi, there, rateyes.

[rateyes]

33. Hey, Cerridwen,

:hi:

Probably freeper trolls voting "yes." How in hell can anyone be for RTW laws and call him/herself a Democrat? If it weren't for unions there would be no 40 hour work week, paid vacations, safety laws, child-labor laws, livable wages, etc.

Non-union people benefit from what the unions have won through the years, and then turn around and badmouth the unions. Pisses me off. RTW is nothing more than "bust the union" bullshit.

I hate scabs.

[Cerridwen]

40. Based on some posts I've seen around DU, they aren't necessarily

non-Democrats. Sad, it is, how so many don't know some of their values come from the r/w.

I started my "union career" at 11 years old. I used to correct my dad's spelling and grammar on grievance forms; he was head of the grievance committee before he became shop steward. I was a whiz at spelling and grammar (relatively speaking) and my dad was the brains. By the time I was 14, I was typing them for him. :D

I have no tolerance, zip, zero, nada, for anti-union anybody. I still take time to check the anti-union lists to see who I'm not supposed to be giving my money to.

[rateyes]

43. My dad was a teamster for the old Mason-Dixon trucking company.

My mom worked in management for the same company. Made it interesting around my house when the Teamsters went on strike. This country probably needs another good Teamsters strike to wake the country the hell up. It's been way too long.


If it wasn't for the union, I wouldn't be enjoying the life I live today. Paid for my two degrees. Anybody who badmouths the union around me only does it once. They know better after the first time.

[Cerridwen]

47. My dad was Teamsters, too.

My mom was also union. Rumor has it she was the first female shop steward in that union. I can't get her to confirm or deny. She just smiles. For the sake of anonymity, I'll leave this vague.

I started out union and about went crazy in IT when most of the guys I worked with couldn't be bothered with or bad-mouthed unions then whined about the way people in IT were treated.

I am always amazed at people working against their own best interests.

[Stinky The Clown]

55. I'm a Teamsters kid, too

My Dad was a shop steward. I know wutcha mean about grievance forms. :hi:

I learned to say "scab" when I was just a little kid walking a picket line with my hand in my Dad's. I also learned to say "fuck" with real gusto at about the same time. :)

[Cerridwen]

58. My dad wouldn't let me walk the picket line; I was too small and he

was protecting me. Dads. *sigh* Of course, that was in Vegas and we weren't known for "nice" picket lines, though we were known for, er, anti-union businesses somehow, er, uh, exploding. LOL :hi:

But, uh, yeah, every other word out of my dad's mouth was "fuck." We were going to put it on his headstone, seriously, it was his favorite word. We decided not to because it might upset his mom. But yeah, "fuck," in my house was a noun, verb, adjective, adverb, exclamation, oath, and epithet. LOL It was always fun when my lace-curtain, Boston Irish grandmother was around; she looked so pretty when she blushed. My aunts, too, were fun to watch. They all married into the family and I think my mom's brothers used my dad as the "litmus test." :D

[catnhatnh]

54. If you think the teamsters or LTL carriers are a sizeble portion...

of our once highly unionized trucking industry you've been out of it a while. My Dad was the shop steward (IAM) for the mechanics at a teamsters organized LTL carrier for over 30 years...he finished his working career as a truck driver for a non-union scrap hauler after deregulation dined on the dying entrails of a once fine industry in the late 80's.

Personal note to Ronald Reagan:I'll be where you are soon, and ASSHOLE, those flames are gonna be the least of your stinking problems.

[rateyes]

69. It was the Mason-Dixon trucking company. Sold out a long time ago.

Still, I believe there's enough to make a dent---especially if independents and non-unions try to keep driving. :evilgrin:

[Stinky The Clown]

37. As I post this, eleven have said yes, they support 'right to work' laws.

I wonder if any of them know why they said "yes" to and if they have the common decency to say why they said "yes" (which is, essentially a "fuck you" to working people and to unions).

Sorry .... is my question phrased with prejudice? :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cerridwen]

50. Thirteen, as I type this. Still no word from the "fearless" 13. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

61. Some people don't know much about them

I didn't even know what they were when I first came to DU. Rather than get upset about it we should share our views with them.

[stillcool]

41. I have heard some union-bashing..

in my time, and it is similar to me to those who push the 'welfare queen' mantra. Unions are full of people who game the system for fun and profit..and lets not forget the mob inferences. I guess the logic is that we should all be working a below minimum wage job, with no health insurance, no over-time, and no safety standards. With that mind-set we don't need a government to trample all over our rights. We do it just fine all by ourselves.

[Better Believe It]

51. How about a "right to have a living wage job" law?

Now that's something "right to work" law supporters won't support!

[cprompt]

53. call me the 2nd huh? vote but...

I was born and raised in the south and honestly hate to admit this but don't know much other than Right To Work is basically either party can quit with no notice or penalty. Very very few unions exist in Memphis so I'm not overly familiar with what unions can provide from a first hand experience.

I can tell you, the prevailing attitudes here towards the south, specifically when it comes to auto manufacturers opening up here, I highly disagree with. There is a Toyota plant going up in Blue Springs, MS that is bringing tremendous job creation to a very poor area. The Nissan plant in Jackson, MS has done wonders for the state and that area in regards to jobs, education, quality of life, etc. So I'm not opposed to any of that. People that used to be lucky to find a job making minimum wage are now making 35-45k year which with the south's cost of living is very good money for a layperson. These plants are opening up in rural, poor, predominantly african-american areas and providing solid jobs which leads to a better life for all those involved here and their kids. Whether these employees are union or not, from my own life experiences, doesn't seem to matter.

Unions don't exist here so again I can't speak to what they bring to the table first hand, I've never been in an environment (I work in sales so keep that reference in mind) where I didn't control my own income. I personally like the ability to go work for a direct competitor since it is right to work. I know full well that if I'm not happy with my compensation or benefits or job in general that I have the ability to go find another job making the same if not more money. It could be that I just haven't realized the greatness that is being a union worker but I've never been exposed to them, so for me ignorance is bliss.

I'm sure this will get flamed, but I hope it opens up intelligent discussion. As someone who has never been exposed to unions, nor have I ever felt wronged by any employer I've had, what's the benefit?

[ogneopasno]

56. You are confusing "right to work" with "at will employment."

What you are describing, the quitting without penalty, is at will employment. "Right to work" means union membership is not a requirement for employment.

Unions raise wages, improve working conditions, and protect workers. You like weekends? Thank the unions.

[cprompt]

59. thanks for the update

on RTW vs At Will. I'd like to know more specifically about the rest though. Again, I do not know of a single employer in my area that is union and I have all of what you mentioned. I determine my compensation amount by taking my talent to the highest bidder, so I can raise my wages. My working conditions are just fine, my company is non-union and requires everyone to do training on ergonomic safety and pays for anything you need to be more comfortable in your work environment. No one works weekends. The company has 3B in annualized revenue and 13k employees so they are big enough to be considered an "evil corporation".

again, I'm not anti-union but on the same token I've had no direct experience with them and have never not had any of the benefits you mentioned.

[rateyes]

70. You have all of those benefits because of unions.

Had it not been for unions, you would quite literally "owe your soul to the company store." Employers used to pay in scrip rather than in real dollars, and that scrip could only be spent at the company store, whose prices were far greater than what their workers could pay. The company would provide "credit" to their workers to buy the necesities of life from the store---and, in that fashion, literally "owned" their workers. Before unions, many industries found a way to make "slavery" legal.

Most every worker protection and benefit in this country is a result of unions, and the sacrifices they made. I urge you to pick up a copy of the movie "Matewan."

[Howzit]

57. I support protection of the same opportunities for all legal residents

That is not the same as guaranteed employment.

In other words; if you have skills that a company needs to support a legal business, you have the right to work for them and they have the right to employ you. This doesn't mean a company is not obliged to employ you, nor are you obliged to work for them.

[Hippo_Tron]

62. Nope, they are a right wing scam

[taught_me_patience]

63. I voted yes

but I support unions and hate scabs.

[JDwho]

65. I live in a "right to work" state...

I can't tell you how many times I've wished I had a union to represent me and my coworkers. Can be fired at any time for any or no reason, no questions asked and no answers need to be given, by law.

[raccoon]

73. Ditto everything you said.

Looks like we live in the same state. :hi:

[JDwho]

77. Well, howdy neighbor

:hi:

[Greyhound]

66. No.

You already voted!
You've already voted in this poll.

If you have any questions, please contact the site administrator.
Click here to go back to previous page.
:kick: & R

[gravity]

67. I am for the right to work laws

I think organizing unions is an outdated strategy for helping workers in this competitive economy. People don't have 40 careers as much anymore and if businesses do go bankrupt, the workers lose all their protection as anyways.

As an alternative, I propose that there should be more government safety nets, universal health care, making education free and increasing the minimum wage.

[rateyes]

71. Safety nets, health care, minimum wage....

all won by the unions. If you take away RTW laws, and strengthened the unions, you would have a much better chance at getting "more safety nets, universal health care, increased minimum wage, etc.

Allow the union-busting RTW laws, and you get what we got in those states, which is pathetic.

[raccoon]

72. You didn't include the option to vote, "Hell, no." nt

[old mark]

74. NO! Union busting as its most basic.

I am a former AFSCME Steward, and I'm still not a rabid fan of unions, but I want everyone to have the choice. The good points of having a union workplace far outweigh the bad part of unions.

I support individuals having a choice in everything in life, and the "right to work" denies that choice.

mark

[moriah]

75. Only when it makes a Non-Compete unenforcable.... :)

I worked through an agency, the agency said something nasty about a person at the company where a friend of that person could hear them. Me, my man, and 40 other people got laid off on the same day because they kicked that agency out.

I was then offered another job, through a different agency, but working for the same company.

The original agency tried to say that I couldn't take the job, and if I wanted to take the job I would have to pay them $25k because it supposedly violated a non-compete agreement.

... but my state's right to work laws made that agreement unenforceable.

And that's about the only time I was happy I lived in a state with those laws.

[tnlefty]

76. No.

Hell no.

[Bluenorthwest]

79. Voted no, but I meant Hell NO!

And I like that you put quote marks aroud the term, which is just a right wing Orwellian spin.