WTF? Good Grief!

[Popol Vuh]

What the hell is wrong with some people? I hope somebody there in Florida shouted into the face of those proposing this bullshit "STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MY HOUSE!!"

Geeze, just when you think you've seen it all.... :eyes:

Neatness Ordinance Violates the Constitution all up and down in Florida

KENNETH CITY — Council members caved in to demands from an angry crowd and delayed approving a neatness ordinance until officials explain every word of the 26-page document to Kenneth City residents.

In what was estimated to be the largest crowd to ever attend a Kenneth City Council meeting, an outraged group of residents railed at the proposal that would regulate the upkeep of both the exterior and interior of all property in the town.

The proposal basically sets standards for upkeep and appearance and gives town officials the right to enter homes. If the owner refuses to allow the official to enter, the town can go to a judge for an "administrative search warrant" to allow access to the interior of buildings. Violations would cost up to $250 a day.

Angry residents likened the proposal to rules created by Communist or Nazi dictatorships. One person said the result would be to create a network of spies to snitch on neighbors to council members and other town officials.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/localgovernment/article919476.ece

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

1. Oh, Florida.

You'd be adorable if you weren't absolutely horrifying.

[NoSheep]

57. Vic Chesnutt "Florida" lyrics:

Florida, Florida, the redneck riviera
Florida, Florida, there's no more pathetic place in America
yes a man must make unpopular decisions, surely from time to time
and a man can only stand what a man can stand
it's a wobbly volatile line

Florida, Florida, the water table is fucked
Florida, Florida, there's no more perfect place to give it all up
a man must take his life in his own hands
hit those nails on the head
and i respect a man who goes to where he wants to be
even if he wants to be dead

Florida, Florida, its a tropical paradise
Florida, Florida, theres no more perfect place to retire from life

[Kitty Herder]

2. That's really creepy.

I don't think it would stand up in court, though, and somebody is bound to challenge it.

[woo me with science]

4. According to the article, similar ordinances are already in place

in Fort Walton Beach and Belleair Beach.

This is horrifying.

[Kitty Herder]

9. That is horrifying.

I hope it doesn't spread beyond Florida. I'd be in big trouble. I'm the kind of person who doesn't even see the dust bunnies until they're big enough to eat me.

[roguevalley]

48. remind me never to go to Florida. It scares me a little and I always

wanted to go.

[Robbien]

3. No dust bunny under any Florida bed is safe these days

Messy people be on the lookout.

[hlthe2b]

5. An Ordinance on INTERIORS????????

Good lord.... Talk about Big Brother... :wtf:

[silverojo]

14. How about just doing something about the freakin' crime there? - n/t

[tavalon]

21. No, that would require doing something. This is a freebie,

or so they thought.

[Are_grits_groceries]

22. It's from the Homemaker Security Department.

There could be interrorists in your home.

[SoCalDem]

51. I'd end up with Life in the Big House

:rofl:

[lligrd]

6. Slobbers Prison??

And they hate us for our freedoms?

[lame54]

32. I'd be doin' time

[question everything]

7. Isn't this a violation of the 4th Amendment? (nt)

[Breeze54]

8. KENNETH CITY — Council members are ANAL RETENIVE?

That would be my guess ... OH... and RETHUGLICONS!!!!

:wow: So? Florida does have some spunk after all?!

Fucking A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[GrpCaptMandrake]

10. Do these authoritarian idiots even KNOW where they are?

It's Florida, doofi! A state that lets you shoot people if you're even the slightest bit "threatened."

This should be fun to watch.

"Chenille? You've got CHENILLE curtains? Oh, I'm gonna hafta write you up!" BANG!


Get On The H.O.R.N.!
www.HeadOnRadioNetwork.com
America's Liberal Voice

[hfojvt]

11. sounds like a story the zoning administrator told us

He said there was a group of people living in $600,000 houses and a developer proposed building some $400,000 houses close by them. They complained to the zoning board about "the kind of people who would be attracted to such low-priced houses".

Of course, even my brother cannot stand to see the inside of my house, and I usually spend a couple hours cleaning before he visits.

[BrklynLiberal]

12. Scary stuff. Next step is cameras in everyone's house to monitor

their neatness.

[quiet.american]

13. Indeed. WTF?! nt

[Waiting For Everyman]

15. This stuff started with laws forcing toddlers to wear crash helmets on bigwheels.

Seriously. That's a law in my state, passed in the 1980's. Jeez, a kid can only fall a distance less than his height on one of those. Come on, now. As I remember, it was "Mothers Against Drunk Driving" who were all for it. (And on that subject... a person should be able to drink ONE glass of wine with dinner, and drive home without getting busted, for Pete's sake!)

Local governments need to be stopped, and like um, NOW. Good for these residents of Florida!

A friend in Germany did tell me last year though, that there are neatness regulations about how trash has to be put out there "just so". Hmm... maybe that's where the idea came from. Hey, I'm a neat-nut, but I greatly resent overbearing, nosey control-freaks no matter who they're pushing around. They need to confine their expertise at critiquing to themselves, or get a hobby.

Those are exactly the kind of people who should NOT be in any kind of governing office. It's like hiring a pedophile to work with kids.

This is exactly what's already wrong with thousands of HOMEOWNERS ASSOCIATIONS across the country... they are a major blight on our lives, existing within a legal black hole. That's a very under-reported story btw.

[barbtries]

19. i just have to respond

regarding the big wheel issue. my friend's son was hit by a car while riding one. i don't think the helmets are necessary in case of falling off of a big wheel. i'm not sure they're necessary period if the child stays out of the street. but my guess is the law came about from a child v. car situation not a child v. ground.

eta: my daughter was killed by a drunk, and my MADD advocate saved my sanity. people die when they mix booze with the road.

[Popol Vuh]

20. On the surface I agree with your point, however,

this reminds me of when here in my state of California when they first implemented mandatory helmets for those of us who ride motorcycles. My feelings on the child helmet laws are the same as they are for me being required to wear one on my motorcycle. My feelings on this matter are I myself would never ride my motorcycle without wearing a helmet. BUT, this is suppose to be a free country and I feel the government is out of line, irregardless of good intentions, to play the role of nanny and tell me how to live my life. Nanny with a badge and a gun? That's not America.

I feel the same way about forcing parents to make their children wear helmets. Again I wouldn't let my own kids under the age of 13 ride a bike without a helmet, but I resent the government forcing me and intruding in my personal business.

[barbtries]

23. CA's my state too

though i'm living in NC now for the past year. i do see your point, but on the other hand: i never put on my seat belt until they made it a law. dumb, yes, but smarter now. as a matter of fact, they could take the law off the books now and i would still wear a seat belt, put my children into safety seats, etc. how many people wouldn't?

i was born in 1955. when i had my first son in 1975 i remember my mother laughing at me for putting him into an infant seat. apparently her four babies were laid on the floor and no one ever got hurt. she thought babies riding in laps were perfectly safe, and she was wrong. needless to say she never had an accident while driving with loose babies.

as far as the helmet law, i'm one of those who believes that 2-wheeled vehicles do not belong on the same roads as vehicles with 4 or more wheels (i'm not looking to outlaw motorcycles, but you won't find me on one). i'm willing to bet that the helmet law as well as the child safety laws and the seat belt laws, and DEFINITELY the tightening of the DUI laws, have saved many, many lives. so it's worth it to me.

[sunnystarr]

28. This rationale is exactly how we lose our freedoms for the

supposed "greater good." It's how the Bush administration trampled all over the Constitution - to PROTECT us from terrorists. Lions and tigers and bears oh my!

When they made seatbelt and helmet laws I was furious! Not that wearing seatbelts or helmets is a bad idea - but that legislating is a HORRENDOUS idea. Where is the personal responsibility? Government shouldn't be in the business of being a parent. Instead educational spots on TV, radio, newspapers etc informing the public of why it's a good idea to use them should have been what was done. But you can't collect fines for that. It always boils down to money. At the time I said next thing they'll do is tell us that our kids need to wear helmets to be safe. And lo and behold kids had to wear helmets to ride a bike. Then that surgeon general Koop actually said that statistic show that kids get a great deal of head injuries falling down in the yard - that grass was hard and could cause these injuries and he recommended that all kids wear helmets when playing outside. Fortunately that wasn't passed into law but hey we're not far from it. Oh but even if one life was saved it would be worth it - right? What total BS.

People do stupid things every day. When they lose electricity in a storm they actually light fires in pretend fireplaces to keep warm and don't understand why their house burned to the ground. The news if full of the stupid stupid things people do and die doing them. It's the law of natural selection and like it or not people die. Just because there are stupid people doesn't mean that everyone else should give up their freedoms and allow government into their private lives dictating what they can or cannot do.

Mothers have actually lost custody of their children because they smoked in their car or home - and not because the children had breathing probs. Guess I should have been removed from my parents home and my kids removed from my home. But that's the politically correct issue and alcoholic parents who neglect and abuse their kids are OK as long as they don't show bruises or end up in the hospital.

The fact is there are dangers in life and living and some of them are fatal. It's always been that way. Looking to government for laws to protect you from sheer stupidity instead of informing the public at large and letting them make their own choices is just a way for government to take away the freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution.

So now towns are going the way of homeowner associations, filled with anal people who like to control others' lives. Fourth Amendment be damned! By sitting back while your personal freedoms were being taken away because you want government to be your big daddy, and then justifying it because some lives were saved, you all deserve to have your local government come into your homes to see if you're neat enough. I just wish the rest of us who don't agree could fill in a form of protest that exempts us from this foolishness. Whatever happened to looking at the broader principle?

*edited for spellon

[barbtries]

31. whatever happened to perspective

maybe we should just throw all the laws out. i'm as appalled by this town's intrusion into people's homes as you are. and if the smoking thing became law i too would be an unfit mother. believe me there are plenty of people, my son among them, who are scandalized that i still smoke inside the house. so be it. i'll stick with my rationale and back the laws i think are good and oppose those that i see as bad.

[reggie the dog]

45. "But you can't collect fines for that."

You hit the nail on the head there. That is what the vast majority of the laws involving consensual crimes are all about, collecting money.

[reggie the dog]

44. DUI laws and helmet laws are not the same kinds of laws

DUI involves putting the lives of others at an unnecessarily heightened risk. The key word being others. Helmet use, seatbelt use, etc. involves putting ones own life at risk. In a free country people are supposed to be free to use their own skills of risk management without fearing prison. A proper state would supply a seftey net for when we mess up and hurt ourselves, reason with us to change our opinions and actions, and leave us to our own judgment as far as our own lives are concerned. I never dream of riding in a car without a seatbelt. I ride my mountain bike without a helmet and I do not wear a helmet if I ride a motorcycle. I know there is a risk on the motorcycle but I choose to take it. Perhaps my opinion will change but I don't want to have the state telling me when and how I can risk my own health.

[reggie the dog]

43. in my humble opinion

you are one hell of an American.

Live and let live.

[Popol Vuh]

58. Thank you reggie the dog

Thank you for your kind words.

I know I am often blunt about the points I make, and I know my spelling/grammar isn't always something to brag about (I come from a poor family and secretarial skills wasn't my strong points in school). But I've always only ever post out of being motivated by a few important issues. They being: Equality, justice, labor rights, animal rights, preserving our constitution and consideration for poor and unlucky folks. Lots of times people disagree with me or are turned off with my bluntness, but, to me that's not what's important. I don't care about popularity contests. I just care about the issues I listed above.

Anyway, before I go on a rant. Thanks reggie the dog, its always nice to run into folks such as yourself.

Peace,
Popol Vuh

[Bake]

39. See, I would have just outlawed Big Wheels.

Or at least mandated that they not make their godawful noise on any pavement within 1,000 feet of my residence until after 12:00 noon.

Bake

[tblue37]

40. WFE wrote: "Those are exactly the kind of people who should NOT be in any kind of governing office."

I consider it quite telling that the infamous BTK serial killer here in Kansas was a low-level officer of the sort who busts people for violating minor ordinances about how their homes and yards are kept. From what I have read, he was incredibly anal about it and delighted in writing people up and getting them in trouble for piddly little infractions.

[Lerkfish]

41. my high school teacher's son was killed on a bigwheel when a car ran over him

maybe a helmet wouldn't have helped much, but you never know.

[MindPilot]

49. While driving down a busy main thoroughfare a little kid on a big wheel

is suddenly in front of my car! I have no idea where he came from but there he is happily cruising along in the traffic lane no doubt entertaining fantasies of his last car chase movie. I didn't really know what to do--it was pre-cell-phone--there was no phone booth close. I was just a few seconds from my house so I yelled at him to get up on the sidewalk and I rushed home to call 911.

Went back, the kid was gone, the cops had a couple other calls about it so we all assumed he just went home and hoped it was safe.

Scary!! And a good lesson in how your world can go sideways in a heartbeat.

[lib_wit_it]

16. This is absolutely appalling!! I really wish I hadn't read this. I especially would love to know

by whose standards is "appearance" judged? I guess I'd have to get rid of my eclectic mix of lovely pieces and go buy matching sets from BIg Lots, Walmart, or Costco. Or, if it's a ritzy neighborhood, some matching sets from Raymoor and Flanagans or somesuch! What the hell is wrong with these people? They have got to be Repugs proposing this. Who else is so fucking obsessed with what goes on in other people's homes?!

[dixiegrrrrl]

55. Kinda makes ya want to stick a dozen pink flamingos in the yard and tie a pitbull to each one.

Then sit on the porch with a shotgun and wait for the drama to commence.

[lib_wit_it]

59. Ha! I guess that's going to the top of my Xmas list: 1 shotgun, 1 flock of Pink Plastic Flamingos,

1 flock of pit bulls, oh, and, maybe 1 flock of Obama yard signs. Though he may want guys to pull up their pants, I doubt he's supporting this kind of bullshit invasion of privacy!

[alphafemale]

17. the hell...?

:mad:

[barbtries]

18. it sounds as if some

obsessive compulsive neat freak has taken over the city council? there is some real sickness there.

i would be drummed out of that town. how offensive can it be that they thought they could legislate the way people keep their homes?! i wouldn't even buy a home if i couldn't paint it in polka dots if that was my desire. people should have absolute control over their own property as long as it does not pose any danger to themselves or others.

[City Lights]

24. I propose they rename the town "Felix Unger City."

Good lord, these people have way too much free time on their hands. Instead of drafting ridiculous legislation, they should walk the streets of Kenneth City picking up every piece of trash and scraping every piece of gum off the sidewalks and under park benches. When they're done with that they should clean every public bathroom in town.

[juno jones]

25. And they wonder

why nobody's moving to FL anymore.

A) We can't afford to retire in the traditional sense.

B) They're batshit crazy there. (condolences to the floridians on this board who are very cool and deserve better)

[Marrah_G]

26. This is not constitutional- I am sure it would lose in court.

[lonestarnot]

27. What in the totally fucked shit is this? Did people throw eggs or rocks?

[justabob]

29. completely insane

It gets more surreal every day.

[Blue Diadem]

30. Gives town officials the right to enter homes?

WOW! That's really stepping over the line and it appears two other cities/towns already have the same ordinance.

Snip from article: "As it is, the ordinance is a virtual copy of others in places like Fort Walton Beach and Belleair Beach."

[The Backlash Cometh]

33. Yep.

Think about it. Behind every ordinance in most local towns, you'll find Seniors and realtors. Seniors want every sign of human existence wiped off the face of community planning to minimize taxes and turn towns into assisted living communities. They may not even realize that's what they do when they support some of these ordinances which affect: dogs, children, motorcyclists, commercial vehicles, etc. And the realtors, who have all the fucking power in Florida (wake up stupid state!) are only too happy to get the power to harass anyone that threatens "property values." These are the same realtors who support property rights for developers to continue building their crap developments.

[pipi_k]

34. I'm reading between the lines and coming to a conclusion...

that it might not be a matter of judging people's housekeeping standards, but only an attempt to enforce minimum standards of safety...

For instance, when someone suffers from OCD and collects all sorts of things including trash and makes his own home unsafe and endangers his neighbors as well when his property (inside and out) becomes a real fire hazard or attracts vermin and rats.


I do believe local officials have not only the right, but the responsibility, to require certain standards in cases like that. Otherwise, I would be willing to bet that the Clean Police aren't going to round up people and ship them off to 10th grade Home Economics Gulags for "re-education" just because they have unwashed dishes in their sinks or dust bunnies under the beds or unfolded laundry sitting around in the laundry room...

[justabob]

35. do you think hoarding is THAT big of a problem?

I thought about this being the rationale too, but I can't imagine that there are enough serious hoarders to justify this kind of invasive ordinance.

[MindPilot]

47. There are already codes and ordinances in place for that.

Social workers and police officers can do "welfare checks" and if you have something in or around your house that is a health hazard, then warrants can be issued to investigate.

The details vary from place to place, but the basics work everywhere. This proposal is just stupid; there is no justification for it at all.

[Eric J in MN]

53. They should need probable cause that a specific person...

...has a dangerous amount of trash in his house to enter.

The government should not be allowed to seach everyone's house because a few people have a dangerous amount of trash.

[deaniac21]

36. The Cult of Che

http://www.slate.com/id/2107100/

[Dont_Bogart_the_Pretzel]

37. This takes the HOA a all new level.

Sounds like the Homeowners' association at its worst.

[glowing]

38. Kenneth City is this tiny little city near St. Pete, FL.

They have their own police force that lives within the town. When you cross into Kenneth City, the cops wait for you because they have a speed trap set... the speed changes from like 40 to 25 when you cross the town line. Its not the richest little burb, but not a slum either. My boss lived there when he first moved to St. Pete from New York. He was the only Indian looking person in the whole little city. And he lived across the street from a cop. He doesn't live there now, but said he sweet talked a lot of tickets away because of the cop across the road from him.. he got caught a lot in the speed trap.

[Kalyke]

42. Ummm... isn't this a violation of the Fourth Amendment?

:shrug:

[Eric J in MN]

54. I'd say so. NT

NT

[reggie the dog]

46. this may be about cannabis laws

you go in to the house and find the indoor grow operation. How lovely.

[MindPilot]

50. or the porn, or the "subversive" manuscripts, or the "foreign" flag

or the wrong holy book, or fliers from the incorrect political party, or the sex toys...

"We pride ourselves in being very thorough when we do our neatness inspections; Next, I'll be making sure your hard drive is nice and tidy."

[Cleita]

52. Good luck with that! How are they going to enforce it?

Do the overstretched police force now have to don white gloves to enter people's houses to find the dust? I thought the ownership associations were Nazi enough with their rules about the color you should paint everything and what bushes you are allowed to plant.

[dixiegrrrrl]

56. anybody read the citizen comments at the end of the article?

Seems like a lot of them are armed.