You know how everyone was afraid that Bush would not let go of power? It just HAPPENED in Canada

[Clintonista2]

The governor general granted Harper's request to prorogue parliament. In essence, parliament has been dissolved so that the PM doesn't have to give up power to the opposition coalition, which controls more seats in the house than him. Frankly, I'm frightened.

[malaise]

1. Now he has to call an election which he will lose

Relax. Harper's history. The coalition will run as an alliance. Bubye Harper - you've been harpooned and have no room to move.

[Clintonista2]

4. No, he doesn't

It gives him two months before he has to face a confidence vote. He's using that time to prepare a budget which the coalition would not possibly vote down. It's pretty much the end of the coalition.

[Oregone]

6. A couple things can happen...

He can make a shitty budget, get tossed....

He can make a decent budget, get support of the Commons, and everyone is happy (thats democracy really).

Or he can make a good budget, get tossed, and the Liberals/NDP will take a major PR blow.

Its likely he will try and appease everyone. In the end, thats not a terrible thing, though getting rid of him would of been nice. The threat is there now. He won't troll around again.

[malaise]

8. True it buys him time without dissolving parliament

but how does he pass a confidence vote here? If the majority want him out, he will have two months to call an election.

[Clintonista2]

12. He's going to bring out a budget which the opposition can't possibly vote against

It will essentially break up the coalition. Then it's back to the same old Harper. There's no way the opposition parties will stick together after that.

[malaise]

13. Then it's not really a coalition

and it certainly could not have lasted.

[Clintonista2]

14. It probably wouldn't have lasted

But it would have destroyed Harper's political career, which was what most of us were hoping for.

[Oregone]

16. Whats so bad about him bringout out a spectacular budget?

Just saying...

Haper now knows not to overstep his bounds. One of the best things that could happen would be getting rid of him, but this alternative isn't bad at all. Also, it allows the opposition to have a strong role in government without bearing responsibility for it during this economic upheaval. There are certainly scenarios in which a coalition government would of handed the Conservatives a majority government the next election. If you can rule without being the ruler, you get the best of both worlds.

[Oregone]

2. Um, this was a pretty normal, expected move

Its also well within the rules.

He just won an election a little over a month ago. The situation is more complicated than what you make it.

[Clintonista2]

5. It wasn't normal. At all.

It's the first time in Canadian history a Prime Minister has prorogued parliament in order to not face a confidence vote. It sets a terrible precedent.

[Oregone]

15. Being a precedent doesn't mean its out of the procedural rules

You are frightened? This relates to Bush making a power grab? Come on now. There is no coup here. I think you are being a bit over-dramatic.

Yes, it sucks the GG granted the request, but its not the end of the world. It was well predicted it would happen.

[zorahopkins]

3. Aren't Preogies Little Potato Treats?

I thought that Perogies *ere little potato treats made by people in Pennsylvania.

Am I *rong?

Note: In protest of the continued occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X".

[bean fidhleir]

33. No, pierogi are either little ravioli-looking things made by Polish people

or larger sausage-roll-looking things made by Ukrainians/Belorussians/Russians.

The Polish ones are generally stuffed with shredded cabbage and the UBR ones with minced animal flesh (eeuw)

Na zdorovie!

[hootinholler]

67. Well in Pa, the perogis are filled with

leftovers, in my experience. Sometimes potato, sometimes sauerkraut, sometimes meat, sometimes a combination.

-Hoot

[Matariki]

84. No, those are peroshki

[bean fidhleir]

85. That's just the Russian diminutive of pirogi - though admittedly more often used

for that particular delicacy. piroshki s myasom (meat - eeuw), piroshki s kapustoj (cabbage), piroshki s kartofelom (tatties)

[Matariki]

83. mmm, perogies. what i miss about my native state.

fried perogies at diners. no diners worth their salt in the pacific northwest.

oh yeah. and tasty cakes.

[TwilightGardener]

87. Tasty Kake and pierogies (best with fried onions)--I smell someone from western PA!

[Matariki]

88. Nope. Eastern PA.

Long line of 'PA Dutch' German ancestors on my mother's side ;-)

I haven't had a tasty kake in YEARS. They probably don't taste as wonderful as I remember.

[mudesi]

7. He can run but he can't hide

They'll take him down later then.

[malaise]

9. Which is my only point.

Go liberal - unite and get rid of Harper.

[Rebubula]

10. Not really comparable...

Bush will be gone (hopefully in a cage in the Hague) in less than 2 months.

Fear not...the light will shine again very soon.

[arcadian]

11. That's what happens when you have a monarch as your head of state.

n/t

[Oregone]

17. huh?

[arcadian]

18. Queen Elizabeth II runs the show.

Canada is a Constituional Monarchy.

[Oregone]

19. huh?

Are you backwards? Ive never seen a Queen in the House of Commons making legislation.

[arcadian]

20. Huh?

Do you know what a Governor-General actually does? Did you read the article?

[Oregone]

21. Yes, she symbolically pretends to represent the crown...

But in reality, thats just tradition and she does what the Prime Minister and Canada wants, or acts within precedent/tradition/law. No Queen calls the shots in Canada.

[arcadian]

22. If it's just tradition then why even have such titles?

:shrug:

And apparently she does(run the country) , if the Governor-General can make such decisions as discussed in the article.

[Oregone]

23. Why even have tradition?

Who knows? Some people find comfort in such. Its part of their national identity.

And no, the Queen doesn't run Canada. The GG doesn't act on her behalf, in reality. The Queen is some woman who lives in a fancy house on the other side of the world who makes PR statements. She doesn't much have time to call any shots in any government, being that she is too busy dodging paparazzi and hosting balls.

Canada has a Parliament. Thats where the shots are called.

[arcadian]

24. Reread the article.

again and again and again and again...

[Oregone]

25. I already get the whole damn thing

NO QUEEN RUNS ANYTHING IN CANADA, PERIOD, END OF STORY.

Whats so hard for you to understand about that? Read a little bit about Canada and how they operate. Yes, the GG has responsibilities that include determining how the government forms and functions, but she does not act within the interests of the Queen at all.

huh?

[arcadian]

26. Oh yeah, I'm sure Queen Elizabeth II is a completely disinterested party in this whole matter.

:eyes:

Even though the Governor-General who acts on her behalf essentially overturned an election.

[Oregone]

28. Overturned an election?!? What the hell are you talking about?

No election was overturned. There was an election in October. Harper won a minority government with 37% of the vote (no coalition alternative was offered at the time and his party had the most seats). Since then, Harper is losing the confidence of the House of Commons with his budget, which hasn't even been voted on yet (and until it is, he still is the Prime Minister). All he did here was delayed the confidence vote so he can come up with a budget people will vote for, so he can retain confidence. No election was overturned. Do you even know what the fuck is going on?

And yes, the Queen is completely separated from this matter, and far to busy drinking wine and eating brie. She is purely a traditional aspect. The Prime Minister tells the Queen who to make the Governor General (so he essentially does it). The Prime Minister tells the Governor General who to appoint to posts (so he essentially does it). The Queen has never intervened in Canadian politics, and refusals to go along with the Prime Minister are unheard of (its symbolic power that is not used, and would probably not be recognized if it was). The only time a GG really went against the PM was the King-Byng Affair in the 20's, and it had nothing to do with the monarch. If the Queen ever interjected herself into Canadian politics, Canada would quickly and swiftly tell them to get lost. These pleasantries are just procedural traditions, and so long as everything continues to function in the interest of Canadians, they will continue to exist. Otherwise, they will go away.

[AngryAmish]

34. Except your Queen

You know, the one named elizabeth and she lives in England. has a son named Charles. You really should read up on that sort of thing. (She also runs a religion, and if you guys want some sort of religious looney who thinks God gave her special powers to boss people around, be my guest.)

[JVS]

36. The Queen is as backwards as the Tsar of old times!

[Oregone]

37. Look, the US is far more run by a monarchial system than Canada

Period.

Britney Spears has more political influence and power, as well as noteworthiness, in Canada than the Queen of England.

[AngryAmish]

41. Except Britney is not our Head of State - you guys have the Queen

Why you want to give taxes to one of the richest women in the world is beyond me.

Listen: I did not make up this crazy system. I do not support this system. You guys obviously like it or it would be done away with a long time ago. We fought a war over it (and, BTW, the Canadians fought against us so it is obvious Canadians will fight and die for their right to prostrate themselves before their betters in England.)

[JVS]

43. Don't forget the Canadians who have been sacrificed on the alter of the British Empire.

From Natal to Bombay, from Burma to the fields of Flanders, their blood has been shed for King and country.

[AngryAmish]

45. Loyal subjects, the lot of them

I suppose they must like being walking organ banks for the British Royal Family. Need a kidney, guvn'r?

[JVS]

53. Here is an agit-prop video I found that tries to explain the revolution to current subjects

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAu0YnJOKas

Notice how they make sure to put it in a setting that the Queen's subjects would be familiar with.
May the lessons help them to throw off their shackles.

[Oregone]

44. You complete ignorance, lack of understanding, and unwillingness to understand...

demonstrates the utter decline of America, on a intellectual and diplomatic level. It reminds me why it is there that I do not want to be when the rubble falls.

And just operating upon the premise that the Queen runs Canada, is that such a bad thing if the real life manifestations are a stable banking system, not engaging in preemptive war with Iraq, and a universal Health Care system? That doesn't seem so bad. Enjoy your Budweiser.

[AngryAmish]

46. Trade liberty for free prostate exams? No thanks.

on edit:

It is clear you know who your betters are. Congrats.

[Oregone]

49. Thats a trade I will take....

Because how free is someone who cannot afford their health care, who is losing their home, their job, their retirement, and whose government coffers are being raided by the ruling elite? If that is freedom, I will pass, and I will enjoy my prostate exam.

And who would my "betters" be, mind you?

[AngryAmish]

50. Your betters are the British Royal Family - remember the Queen is your Head of State

[Oregone]

55. My betters are no one...

Where I was born, it is written "That all men are create equal". Unfortunately that wasn't really practice there, but unable to reconcile this false notion with my surrounding reality, I sought out a land where that notion was closer to the truth.

The Queen has never interjected into Canadian politics. Any power she has is symbolic, being that if she attempted to exercise any of it, she would no longer be in the picture. Thats the end of the story.

[muriel_volestrangler]

52. How much in taxes do you claim Canada gives to the Queen?

You're so sure it happens - name the amount.

And I'd back the Canadian record in wars over the US, by the way - quick into WW2, stayed out of Vietnam and Iraq. Canadians actually seem to have some judgement when it comes to war.

[Oregone]

58. Canadians show no judgement because the Queen runs them all...

Parliament is just a Monarch puppet show. They are reading scripted lines written in England. Its all a symbolic process in which they follow the crown's every request. Every Canadian has a picture of the Queen on their TV stand, and they practice their 15 Minutes of Love nightly in front of it.

[zorahopkins]

60. Leave Britney ALONE!

Leave Britney ALONE!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6FAuJod1XmY

[JVS]

38. Show some respect for your sovereign!

[Oregone]

39. I have no sovereign....I spit on yours, and all others.

But Canada, as a whole, is a sovereign nation.

[JVS]

42. Your sovereign is the queen, nyah nyah nyah. Enjoy being a subject.

Long live the republic!

[Oregone]

47. Being that personally, I choose where and how I live...

I honestly have no sovereign.

But Id rather live with Universal Health Care in a national among the highest in intergenerational mobility (the true American Dream), than be stuck amongst a declining society with the lowest mobility rate, controlled by corporatist, laissez faire capitalist, and religious fundamentalist whose only contribution to the illusion of a meritocracy was being born to rich daddies, which is no contribution at all.

[JVS]

48. You do so have a sovereign. She is Elizabeth and she PWNS you!

[Oregone]

51. Surely you jest...

Her picture is not on my Passport. Is that next to the Eagle on the front?

[JVS]

54. She is still your sovereign, and you are her subject.

[Oregone]

56. As much as she is yours.

[JVS]

57. Wrong. She is not sovereign to me. She is sovereign over a foreign realm, not mine.

[Oregone]

59. Strange....

Because I was just presuming we had the same Passport, yet I am her subject and not you.

Anyway, this is all silly talk. If it takes a Queen to create a society that doesn't engage in preemptive wars today, has among the highest rate of upward mobility, has a stable banking system, and has Universal Health Care, Ill take it. Enjoy your Revolution....hope it makes you feel fuzzy inside.

[JVS]

61. You're the one going around acting like you're a Canadian now. If that is so, she is your sovereign

[Oregone]

63. Acting like a Canadian?!?

...by explaining the system? You got to be kidding me.

And who fucking cares? Again, Queen or no Queen, is it such a bad thing if what if produces is Canada (as opposed to the US)?

Ill take 5 Queens, 3 Kings, a Joker, a Prime Minister with a Helmet haircut if the alternative was what is happening in the US as of late. But the reality is that it is erroneous to blame this action on the Queen, just as it is erroneous to imply she has any part in Canadian politics other than smiling their way from time to time ceremoniously.

[JVS]

64. By you talking about how much you prefer living there, one is led to believe you are naturalizing

[Oregone]

65. One may be correct....

How can I say no to such a society? If it changes, I will move and immigrate elsewhere, in the interests of my family. No sweat off my back, but I'm as free as they come.

Im not sure precisely how that changes the underlying matters at all. There exists a Queen, but she has never interjected into Canadian politics, ever. Her role is ceremonial, purely. Most Canadians don't give two shits about it. You hear far more about the royal family on E! television in the States.

[zorahopkins]

69. Hold On There, You Canadian, You!

"Ill take 5 Queens, 3 Kings, a Joker, a Prime Minister with a Helmet haircut if the alternative was what is happening in the US as of late."

"*hat is happening in the US of late"?????

I'll remind you that *E just elected Barak Obama as our leader.

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X".

[Oregone]

70. ooooooh yay, redemption!

In a single act of realizing how fucked the American people truly are, due to their own actions, they have wiped clean the slate of the last few decades. "The clouds will part, the angels will sing..."

To be honest, Im taking a whole "wait and see" approach to the matter. The political spectrum in the US is so far right of center, I am not sure what to expect (he is not FDR or Truman). It is yet to be seen, exactly what the US will become, if anything different. But I assure, change does not come quick and decisively, at all. Truman still has not seen, over half a century later, his health care reforms.

[zorahopkins]

71. Leave Truman ALONE!

First, Britney, and no* Harry Truman!

My God, Harry Truman has been dead since about 1972!

Please -- just leave Harry Truman alone.

He (and his *ife and daughter, too) have suffered enough.

Note: In protest of the continued occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X">

[Oregone]

74. *e *ill never think Truman is *orthy!

*e all know that Karl Marx's spirit calls all the shots. Truman is a puppet and Marx *as his sovereign. Submit to your real leader.

[zorahopkins]

75. Truman "IS" A Puppet?

Ummmm..

You are a*are, I trust, that Harry Truman died several years ago.

And I prefer to feel that Groucho Marx's (or perhaps Harpo's) spirit calls all the shots.

Note: I protest of the continuing occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE (and I'm VERY glad to see that you, too, REFUSE) to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X".

[Oregone]

76. He is every bit alive as...

The Queen controls Canada.

If if hears any different from you, he will be rolling over in his grave.

[zorahopkins]

77. Moi? Me?

(Note that in conformity with Canadian la*, I title this post in both Francais and Anglais).

I have never suggested that the Queen controls Canada.

(Although I suppose it is possible that some queen has had some influence up there, but that's just a guess.)

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies I REFUSE (and it saddens me greatly to see that you no longer refuse) to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X".

[Oregone]

80. Is that a typo in your title?

:)

It looks funny to a strict Anglophone.

Yeah, I was just using your comment to participate further in this whole silly sub-thread.

And no, I'm not sure, at least in modern times, the monarch has had a bit of influence in Canadian politics. The only time I see that the representative to the crown (Governor General) ever denied a request by the Prime Minister was in 1920, and he did so without a single consultation with England. Their supposed representative acts within legal and precedented constraints. Their main function, philosophically, is really to stave off the threat of a tyrannical Prime Minister, rather than express the wishes of the Queen. Its sad that so many comment without understanding the nuances of the system. I honestly don't think Americans do nuance well. I'm often loss by the statesmanship and intricacies of some of these foreign governments.

[zorahopkins]

66. I LOVE ELizabeth!

I am a citizen of the USA, but I just LOVE Queen Elizabeth!

She is so gracious.

[Oregone]

68. I don't give a damn about her...

As a US Citizen or a Canadian Permanent Resident, she doesn't mean a damn thing to me. I find some disdain in the entire system that allows one to be born with such privilege, but it seems this is something humans dig.

[JVS]

40. IIRC the constitution forbids her to enter the house of commons, so that's a non-starter

[bean fidhleir]

86. She's not forbidden, just forbidden without permission

So, pro-forma, she petitions 3 times and they say No twice. At least that's what I seem to recall.

[JVS]

32. Death to the monarchy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPHrEx4m0mo

[Arugula Latte]

27. Don't worry, we can invade you.

You will throw flowers, and we'll be greeted as liberators. You can expect a little looting; these things happen.

[Oregone]

29. LOL. Please don't

I'm just starting to enjoy not being ruled by Americans. :)

[riqster]

31. But look at our track record!

Iraq, now THERE'S a marvelous case of democracy and...and..uh...never mind...

[dysfunctional press]

30. pssst....this ISN'T canada.

they have different rules and a different government. if he did everything according to their laws and rules- why does it bother you so? :shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

35. Um, isn't that permissible under the rules of the Parliamentary system?

If so, it may suck, but there's nothing 'scary' about it.

[Oregone]

72. COUP, COUP I TELL YOU!!!

The Queen, Harper, and Margret Thatcher usurped Canadian power!!! Coup! Bush will do it soon with the help of Putin and Stalin, and implement a socialistic parliamentary system! Be afraid, very afraid!

[zorahopkins]

73. You're Prefectly Correct, You Kno*

You *ere the one who said (say it outloud) "Coup Coup".

Note: In protest of the continuing occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X".

[JVS]

79. How come yesterday you were trying to tell us how big this was, and now suddenly it's no big deal?

[Oregone]

81. There is no contradiction....

It is a big deal to the US if their number 1 trading partner has their government drastically re-align to a government with different ideas on trade, foreign relations, global warming, military intervention...etc (as I said yesterday).

Today the PM delayed that vote of confidence to January 20th or so, which the OP is equating to some type of a radical coup-like power grab. Rather, its just a procedural delay of the inevitable (or a delay until the conservative party starts bowing down to the liberals demands). Today isn't some radical, mind-blowing coup. It is a big deal, in that the PM is delaying the vote over partisan politics to keep his job, but it isn't some crushing blow to democracy.

This is all part of a process that can have far reaching effects, but it is not a part that has the significance the OP is suggesting. It is not comparable to Bush taking power through a state of emergency, nor does it suggest he will. This is just a part of the big picture

[SidDithers]

62. Ummm, no it didn't...nt

Sid

[walldude]

78. Frightened? Of what? Bush can't wait to get out.

That pathetic drunken little frat boy never worked a day in his life. He thought the Presidency was going to be a walk in the park. Now all he can do is bow out while stammering lame excuses for not taking responsibility for anything he did.

[Oregone]

82. Then he can start making shitty private speeches

And getting paid millions from the special interests that he rewarded with policies and contracts. Yeah, thats how it works. They all do it. Laundered, legal payoffs for political favors. Bush can't wait.