What about those worthless, greedy military retirees in our country

[BOSSHOG]

People with conservative values have been instructed by right wing media to lash out at the worthless, greedy members of the UAW and to blame them for all that is wrong in the Detroit Auto Industry. They point to their pensions and health care packages. Military retirees are in a similar situation with pensions and medical care for them and their families and military members aren't unionized, don't pay union dues and still get a heckuva deal. I'm a worthless, greedy military retiree and I demand that people with conservative values be instructed by right wing media to turn their hatred toward us because doing away with our pensions and medical care will only do great conservative things for our country. Why is the right wing ignoring this travesty??

[NightWatcher]

1. and those damned hippies with their dreams of socialized medicine

my SO's grandfather would be dead if not for the VA. With all it's faults, it does serve some.

[county worker]

2. More people should have retirement benefits.

Why is it we can give billions to war and Wall Street but people must fend for themselves. All of us pay taxes, why should we not take care of ourselves with our taxes?

I would much rather my tax dollars go to people in this country who need it than to KBR and such!

Why do we never have enough money for the needs of our people? Why don't we care about each other more?

I have a hard time with those who want to retirees and undocumented immigrants and other human beings to suffer and don't give a shit about what happens to them. At the same time they'll cry crocodile tears if a puppy gets thrown over a cliff!

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

3. They can't say so out loud

because the right wingers all always bawling "Support the troops!"--but you KNOW they would really take away all military benefits if they thought they could get away with it.

[hfojvt]

4. retirement does create a "you work, I eat" exchange

In somes cases, it's possible that the retiree saved enough from his/her working days to support their retirement, but mostly it's a burden to working people. A burden which becomes harder to sustain as the population stops growing rapidly.

[sinkingfeeling]

10. Total bulls**t. People with pensions/retirement benefits were promised these as a part of 'deferred

compensation'. Meaning we took a little less pay during our 30 to 40 years of employment to have a pension check come each month in our retirement. The company I retired from has a fund of $54 billion set aside to pay for their current retirees. I cost you absolutely nothing. If you're referring to Social Security, the program will survive by removing the caps. The companies I've worked for and myself have probably paid more into SS than most folks have put into 401K's or IRA's.

I know many people who retired and only drew a few month's pension and/or Social Security before they died. I'm single so when I die, that money all stays in SS.

[Sirveri]

20. That's not the case with military retirement.

You can retire after 20 years and make 50% of the avg of your last three years pay. E-6 is the current minimum that you can retire as. So at age 38 you can pull down quite a lot of money from 'military retirement'. A retired E-6 will pull about $1600 a month at a minimum if they retired right now. An O-4 will pull over $3200 a month in retirement. Assuming they retired today at the 20 year mark (50% at 20 increasing to 75% at 30). Chances are that you still got quite a bit of work left in you at 38-41.

I'm not really begrudging military retirement, but it's a LOT more excessive than the peanuts the UAW drones get. I think the entire military needs to be overhauled, but that's another thread.

[dmallind]

5. I get the point, but it's a bit strained.

For example you had a 24 hour a day job that was not something you could just quit when you wanted. There are probably fewer people who can become good soldiers than who could become good autowrkers too (the physical fitness requirements alone eliminate many people) and you, unless quite a senior officer, undoubtedly made less during your working life too. An E-3 for example is paid a base rate of $1729 a month even with 20 years of service.

Also jobs tend to pay (in whatever way that pay is demonstrated) based on three things - scarcity of capable potential employee pool (already mentioned), experience and ability, and degree of responsibility (the "what happens if they fuck up?" factor). It's pretty expensive and damned inconvenient if a GM line worker screws up a car engine for sure. It means either costly rework at the plant, even costlier repair under warranty, or heck possibly a lawsuit if it's dangerous and a customer is hurt (although to be a really expensive lawsuit that usually means class action which is indicative of a screwup somehwere well above line level). But is it as costly as what happens if that E3 screws up either a counterinsurgency patrol in Iraq or maintaining a B2 at an airbase? NOt quite.


Oh and while I know far more military people are never shot at than those who are, I suspect the ratio at GM is much much higher in the never shot at direction, at least as a condition of employment.

[Sirveri]

21. E-3 is booted back into the labor market after 5 years.

E-4 only last until 8 years and E-5 only stay in until 16. E-6 cap is 20, 7 is 24, 8 is 28 and 9 is 30. This is for the Navy for certain, not 100% about the other branches. Army would likely retain whoever and however.

Other point is that you won't be an E-3 for 20 years. Hell I came in as an E-3, made E-4 in 5 months after raising my hand, then pulled E-5 off an exam (despite my physical fitness issues) about a year and a half later. Then at my three year point they booted me for being overweight (never let me put on E-5 though, bastards).

[deaniac21]

6. S-T-R-E-C-H

[YvonneCa]

7. I'm a worthless, greedy education retiree...

...and union member (sometimes referred to as terrorist organization by the Bush administration). During my career I was required to contribute to my pension plan at the price of losing my earned Social Security benefits. How am I really greedy if I paid in to my pension plan? I think we need to unite, speak up and organize! :7 Seriously.

[yardwork]

8. I'm really disheartened by the attacks on retired working people.

Why is it so unreasonable - so "greedy" - for people to want decent salaries and benefits? Why is it so unreasonable to expect a decent retirement with medical benefits?

In the wealthiest country in the world, it seems to me that we can afford to give every working person a decent job with rewards and a safety net. Instead, we have a terrible disparity with CEOs making hundreds of millions a year and working people accused of selfishness for making $50,000 a year with retirement benefits.

People should be ashamed. Thank you for this thread.

[YvonneCa]

9. So am I. This is a real 'values' issue. Like in the...

...discussions on torure, people said our actions say more about who WE are as a people. I think the same is true here. Do we have any obligation to retirees? Are we a country who believes in keeping our promises on things like pensions? Can we change what's needed to change with HONOR and uphold our obligations? I think we MUST find a way.

[yardwork]

11. We could afford to take care of people if we rearranged our priorities.

Instead of spending trillions on stupid wars, torturing and murdering people halfway around the world for nothing, we could provide everyone in the United States with access to good health care. That alone would reduce the burden on small businesses and stimulate the economy.

Instead we live in this dog-eat-dog world and blame the working people.

[YvonneCa]

24. You hit the nail on the...

...head. This is DEFINITELY about priorities.

[Bake]

12. What is this "retirement" thing you speak of?

This concept, it is foreign to me.

:hi:

Bake

[ContinentalOp]

25. Yeah, there's a generation gap here that some people are just not getting.

As much as I support unions, sometimes it's REALLY tough to find sympathy when you work in a job with no healthcare and no retirement benefits and your IRA is now worthless. Retirement seems like some kind of wonderful fantasy that's going to die with the Baby Boomer generation as they fuck the rest of us over.

[Hubert Flottz]

13. Obama is a damned fool if he thinks he can trust people like...

Bob Corker or John McCain.

[zorahopkins]

14. Hold On There

Million of people are living on pensions under the Social Security System.

I do hope you are not really suggesting that people living on pensions are *orthless and greedy.

Note: In protest of the continued occupation of OUR *hite House by the illegal and totally corrupt Bush/Cheney regime of thugs and cronies, I REFUSE to use the letter bet*een "V" and "X".

[MindPilot]

18. I'm guessing you probably don't know Mr HOGG that well.

He is on *our* side. :hi:

But he is right. We can't be spending money on military people; we have wars to fight!

[fla nocount]

15. "Useless Feeders" when a cow stops giving milk or a hen...

stops laying it ends up on the table where it can return the worth invested in it.

[Hubert Flottz]

16. That is exactly the way the SS looked at human beings.

[MindPilot]

17. Yeah, you effin' parasites!!

You were an E3 the last time you did any real work. All you sailors just cruise around on those luxury liners drinking coffee and bringing STDs back to the states from your bare-butting and swapping spit! Combat pay, pro pay, allowance for quarters, money for nothing, free food, hookers and booze--living conditions that would make a Saudi prince blush and now you want us taxpayers to foot the bill for your "golden years"?! Then you probably expect the Navy is going to buy you a coffin and a flag to drape over it. Fuck that!

Your sense of entitlement is just disgusting!

At least after 25 years in the Air Force, my dad had the decency to die before he cost the american taxpayers any more money to support his opulent lifestyle.

[BOSSHOG]

19. Actually I want a small flag to cover my urn

but you are right, we are entitled.

God Bless Your Daddy!!!

[whistler162]

23. My brothers Navy assignment before he took a sail

on the USS Kennedy in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Springs

Brother did 20 years so he is a leach.;)

[L0oniX]

22. You mean the ones who have participated in American imperial terrorism?

[ContinentalOp]

26. I'm not afraid to say that I voted against a Veteran's Bond act in CA.

It was a spur of the moment thing in the voting booth. I knew that Prop 8 would pass and I just thought: "Fuck this, why should I vote for more money for idiots like my mouth breathing Republican cousin who signed up to go to Iraq?" That should be a Federal issue anyway, not a state issue.

Anyway, I know that's an extremely unpopular point of view and I'm going to catch some flack for it but it was an emotional response in the heat of the moment.