Help me out here guys. I just receive this email from my son, an

[napi21]

ex-navy guy of 15 years.

This was sent to me by one of my friends (also US Navy retired). So
many people say they "support our troops", but then protest everything
the troops are doing and what they stand for (2-faced). Please look at
the website at the end, this is what the main stream media does not
show you.

They present a lopsided view to bolster their ratings and promote their
own political agenda. It was once said that a lie will be half way
around the world before the truth can get it's shoes on..........Jedi

All,

I'm one of the retirees that is part of your distro group. I went to
DC on Saturday with about 30,000 brothers and sisters to protect the
Vietnam, Korea and WWII memorials from desecration by the
anti-war/anti-government idiots and to show support for our troops.

We were called the Gathering of Eagles. The main stream media didn't
give our side much coverage, but we out numbered them for sure. There
is a video imbedded in the link below, of Michelle Malkin telling the
story from our side.

The active duty troops need to know that there are truly supported by
the majority of Americans. Could you pass this along? FYI, I'm the guy
in the VFW cover and flight jacket with a Liberty Bell patch. The guy
to my left is the Commander of the local VFW Post.

v/r,
John
ADSC (USNR-RET)

I didn't get the attacked picture, but what I want to know is Did anyone threated to destroythe memorials? If so, I never heard about it! I want some factual and provable stuff to respond to this with. BTW, my son is no Shrub lover by any means, but he IS an exNavy guy and supports all the active duty guys who are going through hell for this Country!

[Suich]

1. I don't have any facts but I was under the impression that the

threat to destroy memorials was made up, like the war on Christmas and Easter!

:)

[kath]

2. Sounds like total bullshit to me. I would be very surprised to hear if there is ANY

evidence that anti-war protesters have ever "desecrated" or threatened to "desecrate" any of the war memorials.

Now, agent provocateurs - well, that's another kettle of fish.

[BuyingThyme]

3. No, they just needed another fake issue

because the same old lies are the same old lies.

These are the same morans who rally behind lying porn stars who pose as victimized vets.

[PassingFair]

4. 30,000

He's a liar, from the pictures I'VE seen.

They desperately want to be on the RIGHT side of SOMETHING, don't they!

So they make up this ridiculous tale of antiwar peeps wanting to DESTROY/
DESECRATE war memorials, AS IF DEMOCRATS haven't DIED IN DROVES in our
wars!

*UCK THEM!

[TheWraith]

5. No, by "desecration" they appear to mean "free speech."

Probably a talking point started by Malkin or another one of the right-wing Hitler Crones.

[Lex]

6. No, it was a totally made up issue. Why are they so scared of peace vigils?

I feel sorry for them and their paranoia, frankly.

[TheBaldyMan]

24. It must be intimidating being so heavily outnumbered

the right wing counter demonstrations tend to be. I quite like them as comic relief to a serious issue.

IMO thats why they think portajohns are so important, they are literally crapping themselves.

[WinkyDink]

7. Pro-peace marchers don't deface our memorials. This is agent

provocateur work---or just plain made-up stories.

[gratuitous]

8. Anonymous sources are not to be trusted

Who is "John" and isn't convenient that none of the attached video or pictures came through? Smells like bullshit to me, and it sounds like your friend was taken in by the same agitprop pundits who gin up the "war on Christmas" and "war on Easter" nonsense.

[napi21]

9. I agree with your assessments, but just me telling my son that it's

BS isn't going to erase the accusations. Maybe I'll check snopes. Maybe they'll have something.

[yardwork]

18. Do we have to prove that every made-up lie is a lie?

If you got an email saying that armed wolverines were taking to streets tomorrow would you believe it?

[napi21]

25. No of course not, but you have to understand my position.

My son knows how I feel about Shrub, and although he's never been quite as strongly opposed, he's no fan either, but he IS an ex Navy guy and is VERY susceptable to auto defending his fellow military men when accusations are made. I can't say that I balme him either. He's alsoa real strong Harley guynow (in Italy) and the Harley groups there have has many runs to support a lot of charitable events, and that's a good thing!

You see, I'm not only trying to deny a Pub false allegation, I'm indirectly fighting the rumors about a group of motorcycleists who are "supposed to be" defending war memorials!

Do you understand why I need SOMETHING more than just "oh that's just RW BS?

[yardwork]

36. I think that the responsibility is on the accusers to provide evidence.

All I've seen is a carefully orchestrated and obviously heavily-funded pr campaign to whip up resentment among veterans against peace marchers.

It's difficult to prove a negative. How can we prove that there were no plans to deface the Vietnam Memorial, when nothing happened and there is no evidence that anything happened before?

[napi21]

43. That's right of course, but that also seems to b why it works for them.

They present themselves as Veterans and other military folks believe what they say! That's VERY difficult to combat! I'm sure they know that, and is the very reason they chose this method!!! I did get a link from Monkeyman that helped a lot by pointing out who these people are associated with and what some of their past deed have been.

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. Tell him that I was in DC in January and the rumors about vandalism that day

are complete bullshit. And no soldier was spit upon either. If they lied in January, no reason to believe they will be truthful in March.

[angstlessk]

10. They can never line up enough pro war people so they had to invent

something to rally behind...it was just a lie to get money and people to go to the rally...If you look at the past pro war rallies there were more porta johns than people.

[Xipe Totec]

11. Cross-Link

Send him this:

"I was cursed and spat upon by so-called “patriots” who would dissolve democracy in favor of corporate monarchy as I exercised those very rights the republic’s founding fathers described as “God given”. I watched a Navy veteran cuffed and led away by armed government agents from Senate offices for expressing his own true love of country and personal courage. I saw privilege override patriotism. And I noticed that nobody noticed...."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3172870

And ask him: Who's defending what?

[TheBaldyMan]

12. another RW fable to have an attack of the vapours about.

the only threat was in the imaginations of the FReepers. A pathetic attempt to garner support for their vigil, then when no desecration took place (no surprise) the RWnuts could claim 'Victory-Fearless defenders of national monuments prevent desecration by filthy hippies'.

All a bit silly really.

[bobbolink]

13. Monkey man had reports on this... look up his recent posts. n/t

[fedupinBushcountry]

14. When I heard that trumped up story

I said WTF. I went to the march in DC in Jan. and the total 15 or so of these morans were behind a fence one of them pulled out their retired military ID, like no one that was protesting was a veteran or related to one. That so totally pissed me off I took out my retired dependent ID and said you don't own the troops.

Don't let your son fall for this crap. My husband served 20 years and he is so sick of this crap. They are the ones using the troops and in such an unpatriotic way. :argh:

[Arkansas Granny]

15. The Gathering of Eagles had heard about the alleged spray

painting of the capitol steps during the January march. Their whole premise was that they had to defend the Vietnam Wall this time around or those damn peaceniks would vandalize it.

[yardwork]

20. Has anyone ever seen evidence that the Capitol steps were actually spray-painted?

I remember reading news stories but never saw any evidence, photographs, etc. Is the Capitol so poorly guarded that people can walk right up to it and spray-paint graffiti on the steps?

[proud2BlibKansan]

31. No I was there and that did not happen

There were so many cops on the capitol steps that it would have been impossible to deface them.

[Arkansas Granny]

32. I never saw any pictures of it or a report from a reliable source.

I saw one report that showed a spraypainted sign that was supposed to represent anarchists that looked like the letter "A" inside a circle, but it wasn't shown in context to its' surroundings, so who knows where the picture was taken.

[yardwork]

37. It reminds me of the lies that were told when bushco took office

Remember all that crap about Air Force One being vandalized and graffiti written on the walls in the West Wing and silverware being stolen by departing Clinton staffers? All totally made-up lies. Even W himself finally admitted that they were all lies. Made up by Rove, no doubt.

This has the same whiff of Rove about it. Made-up lies to make people mad at the peace marchers and deflect attention from the real crimes being committed.

[juno jones]

16. I would rather have a thousand memorials defaced...

...Than have one single living vet not recieve the care he deserves. Symbols are cheap. They have a habit of being melted down from time to time. We are talking about living humans whose lives are at stake here...

...oops on my laptop, harder to spell....

[yardwork]

21. Obviously. But in fact, there don't seem to be any memorials defaced at all

[Morgana LaFey]

17. Apparently these bEAGLES claimed that some group

planned to deface the Vietnam Memorial, but it was pure bunk.

As someone upthread said: it wouldn't be peace protesters doing something like that. I too suspect they were trying to goad our side into missteps and mayhem (that is, the instigators, whoever they were, were actually agents provocateurs). They failed, thank heaven. The left simply isn't violent, unless you get to NUTS like the UniBomber, but those kinds of nuts are isolated cases.

[TheBaldyMan]

23. please don't sully Beagles by association with RWnuts.

beagles are cute.

May I suggest the Gathering of Smeagols as an alternative.

[ComerPerro]

42. beautiful thing for them is, you can't disprove their lie

[Jonathan50]

19. What I would suggest is you tell him about Democratic Senator Jim Webb.

And how Senator Webb has introduced a new "GI Bill" for WOT veterans.

Then tell him to watch and see who supports the bill and who opposes it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Webb

Webb’s first legislative act was to introduce a bill expanding benefits for military families entitled the “Post-9/11 Veterans Educational Assistance Act”. The act is set to replace the Montgomery GI Bill and “makes veterans benefits identical to those soldiers received following World War II.”<30> Democratic leaders in Congress “ have already signaled the bill will be a top priority in the new session.” Speaking about his bill, Webb said “With many of our military members serving two or three tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, it is past time to enact a new veterans’ education program modeled on the World War II era GI bill. This is exactly what our legislation does.”

[uppityperson]

22. Some info, from the horses mouth, so to speak.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/feb07/eagle.htm

Leftist activists who march to the Pentagon next month will discover that their path won't be as clear as it has been in the past.

The group, led by Cindy Sheehan, Jane Fonda, Ramsey Clark and their ilk, plan to gather March 17 at the Vietnam Memorial Wall to begin a march to protest America's involvement in the Iraq war. The date marks the fourth anniversary of the war's beginning.

This time, however, protestors will see objectors if they spit on Iraqi veterans again, or throw paint on a war memorial. This time, they will encounter a buzz saw of Vietnam veterans and supporters who will gather to protect the Wall, and show their support for U.S. troops. The counter-protestors are calling themselves the Gathering of Eagles....(more)

Ask who desecrated the crosses at Camp Casey. A rightwing person. Who set them up and protected them? Yup, that same group mentioned above.

http://gatheringofeagles.org/?p=195 has some info, including (what a coincidence) from Kristinn!!! How many Kristinns are there I wonder. Wow. For those that do not know, Kristinn is a true freeper. Bless his little soul. There are links to several articles about the anti-Iraq-occupation protesters and these freedom loving people out to stop the peaceniks from defacing The Wall.

Here are the links they give to articles proving how great it was, and a whine there also.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/18/us/18protest.html?_r=2&ref=washington&oref=slogin&oref=slogin
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/localnews/content/local_news/epaper/2007/03/18/m1a_WAR_PROTEST_0318.html
http://www.lasvegassun.com/sunbin/stories/nat-gen/2007/mar/18/031806852.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/17/AR2007031701280.html

[mzteris]

26. fwiw

A - I went to "their website" - the pics don't show anything LIKE 30,000. Just a few hundred. Maybe.

Take a look at their states message board about rides, etc. 30,000? I don't think so.


The pics show practically all "white males" - AND many had on 'colors' that said something like "Vietnam Knights"

:wtf:

KNIGHTS????

As in the Klan?

:shrug:

dunno


I read through some of "their webblogs" - ewwwwwwwwwwww. Creepy people. Very violent and narrowminded. Delusional, actually. What the heck are they smoking?


Here's this link from huffpo that *may* help:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-kelly/where-eagles-duh_b_42457.html?p=2

[yardwork]

38. They sound like white supremacist biker gangs - organized crime

Most folks who ride motorcycles are enthusiasts who enjoy riding bikes. Others are part of biker gangs involved in organized crime. Lots of them are white supremacists. These are NOT nice people.

Edited to clarify - I'm not saying that most folks who ride motorcycles or belong to bike clubs are into organized crime. Not at all! I'm saying that a minority of bikers are actually really bad people.

[mzteris]

40. I dunno -

I know some very nice "bikers" - but most of these looked like real losers, imo.

[uppityperson]

45. Kristinn at his best.

[Ghost in the Machine]

27. My reply to your son:

First off, we need to make one thing perfectly clear. Being anti war does NOT make someone anti troops. Don't you understand the concept of this? We are demanding that our troops come home now! We are trying to protect you, so you can be here to protect us and our Country at a later date, when it is needed. We are trying to keep any more of our brave men and women in uniform from dying needlessly in an illegal, immoral war of agression/choice that was started on a string of lies and twisted intelligence.

Let's look at a few facts:
#1) Iraq didn't attack us.
9/11 Commission: No Link Between Al-Qaida and Saddam
by Hope Yen

WASHINGTON - Bluntly contradicting the Bush administration, the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks reported Wednesday there was ``no credible evidence'' that Saddam Hussein helped al-Qaida target the United States.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/0616-01.htm

#2) Iraq had NO WMD's
Report: No WMD stockpiles in Iraq

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Saddam Hussein did not possess stockpiles of illicit weapons at the time of the U.S. invasion in March 2003 and had not begun any program to produce them, a CIA report concludes.

In fact, the long-awaited report, authored by Charles Duelfer, who advises the director of central intelligence on Iraqi weapons, says Iraq's WMD program was essentially destroyed in 1991 and Saddam ended Iraq's nuclear program after the 1991 Gulf War.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/06/iraq.wmd.report/

Do you need more facts? By your account, I am an "anti-war/anti-government idiot". I'm an idiot because I don't want our troops dying needlessly for a lie? I guess by my account, I could consider anyone who supports the war as someone who hates our troops, and wants more of them to die.

How does the shoe feel on the other foot?

PEACE! (it's not just for hippies anymore)

Ghost

Edited: for spelling error
2nd edit: for bad html

[mzteris]

28. oh look -

the online petition of those signed to say they WILL BE THERE....

all 1826. Of which, of course, probably not all were actually THERE......

http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?GOE31707

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Just talked to my friend today who went to DC this past weekend

She said there was a small group of these 'patriots' at the Vietnam Wall, they were hateful and violent and the cops spent more time watching them than the peace activists.

[Jonathan50]

33. From the Sadly No website.

http://sadlyno.com/

Michelle Malkin wrote on Saturday that the figure came directly from the Gathering of Eagles:

***Update: Kit at Gathering of Eagles reports on the National Park Service estimate of the GoE turnout: 30,000 strong. The silent majority no more.***


Now here’s what the Park Service has to say about it:

Dear Mr. <…>:

I am the spokesperson for the National Park Service in Washington, D.C. I never issued any statement of any kind about anything related to this past weekend’s events, let alone anything about crowd size. In fact, I was never asked that question by anyone.

Anyone who gives any crowd size number or figure for this past weekend is making the figure up and does not have any authorization whatsoever to attribute those figures to the National Park Service. Since I never issued any such statement nor was ever the question raised in the first place, it is impossible to attribute any figures to the National Park Service for this past weekend’s events.

Lastly, Congress prohibits the National Park Service from giving or providing any crowd estimate for any permitted event on the National Mall.

I hope this is of help and clarification for you.

Bill Line
Communications & Tourism Officer
National Park Service
National Capital Region
1100 Ohio Drive, SW
Washington, D.C. 20242

[solara]

34. Anti-War or Pro-Peace demonstrators are NOT

going to deface any memorial or tribute to the men and women who have given their lives honorably for our country. WE SUPPORT THE TROOPS.

No matter how angry and frustrated we are with the lies and the politics that sent them off to fight in Bush's War. We protest because we honor the brave men and women who serve, and believe they have a right to live their lives without further bloodshed and horror.

We support the troops and want them to come home.. we do not see them as fodder.. we do not see them as expendable. When they come home with injuries, we do not ignore them or see them as broken and useless. We see them as brave and worthy of our respect and support. Bush's War has lasted FOUR years...and we are beginning year FIVE with more bloodshed, horror, destruction, pain and terror for our troops and for the Iraqi people.

We march against Bush and his war, NOT against the troops.

So, please tell your son that it is unfortunate that the members of the "Gathering of Eagles" believe the lies of the Bush War Machine and parrot those lies from a misplaced sense of patriotism. Unlike the Bush War supporters, we value and honor the lives and sacrifice of ALL who serve, especially those who have fallen in service to their country ...we support them and speak truth to this Administration's abuse of power.

Peace


INVESTIGATE INDICT IMPEACH INCARCERATE :patriot:

[Gold Metal Flake]

35. This thread has all the info...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x457722

[AlCzervik]

39. even if the media were liberal a gathering of 30,000 anything would be reported on.

[ComerPerro]

41. that's a common talking point. That the counter protesters were there

to prevent anti-war protestors from defacing and destroying monuments and memorials.

Of course its bullshit, but its spreading like a wildfire.

[Sleepless In NY]

44. napi21 please pass this onto your son

Only "unusual thing" I heard about the march was this & I found it quite heart warming:
Christians who see war as 'morally wrong' protest in D.C.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-03-19-christians-war_N.htm

Christians gather in D.C. to protest war http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070317/ap_on_re_us/war_protest_christians

Christians Join Thousands in Iraq War Protest http://www.christiantoday.com/article/christians.join.thousands.in.iraq.war.protest/9984.htm


No talk or vandalism or descretion anywhere, by anyone, christian, non christian, liberals, whatever.


Your son might also be interested in this: Veterans face consecutive health care budget cuts http://washtimes.com/national/20070212-111911-3968r.htm &
Veterans face consecutive budget cuts http://politics.netscape.com/story/2007/02/12/veterans-face-consecutive-budget-cuts

If your son truly wants to support the troops, tell him to go here: http://www.votevets.org/ real soldiers who have served and see what they have to say.

Now I have a question for your son, Why doesn't this "Gathering of Eagles" get their war supporting, motorcycling asses over to Walter Reed Hospital & protest? All 30,000 of them...as if. Thanks.

[napi21]

46. I sure can't answer for the "Gathering of Eagles", but if my son was here

in the States, I'm sure he would be protesting the treatment at WR. He's not. He's in Sicily, Italy. He's been there for 5 years.

I guess the reason I asked for help in denouncing this stupid email is BECAUSE he is in Italy and most of what he hears is via CNN. That's the only news show he ever mentions so I have to assume that's the only one he gets a chance to see. He does get news fron the BBC, which isan advantage over the junk we get here, but I guess they haven't covered this part of the protest.

Thanks to everyone here who led me into the directions to find counter evidence to this email nonsense. I know I can always depend on my friends here on DU! You folks are the BEST!