Mars is warming up too, hence no global warming!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

Every time someone speaks against global warming, they bring up Mars. Where is a good source of info on this? Specifically, in regard to what it has to do with Global warming, and why climate scientists aren't as convinced as others that it negates the idea of Global warming.

[slackmaster]

1. I don't see anyone saying there isn't any global warming any more

Now that winter has left most of the country.

[ewoden]

2. here

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-warming.html

[slackmaster]

4. Ruh-roh

...In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said....

..."Man-made greenhouse warming has made a small contribution to the warming seen on Earth in recent years, but it cannot compete with the increase in solar irradiance," Abdussamatov said....

[SemiCharmedQuark]

7. Right but in links off the same article, they talk about some shortcomings

of his theory.

[originalpckelly]

10. This is the problem with politicizing science.

The truth is the truth, even when it goes against political positions.

Science is devoted to finding the truth, whatever it may be, however damaging politically to whoever may be concerned.

The Republicans see data that suggests global warming is real, they do all they can politically to knock it down. And now I wonder if I'm seeing that on my own side.

I don't think this is probably all that's causing global warming, because there is a consistent trend globally over a large number of years, more than three, where global temperatures have risen and the caps/glaciers have been slowly melting.

But, it could also be increased by some type of solar phenomenon.

We need to get out of science and so do the Republicans. None of these politicians on either side really know a damn thing about science, because there's only one or two Congress-critters with science BAs and only one member of Congress with a PhD.

Let science be science. Don't put a thumb on the scale. We may post about this, but honestly we should just take a very off hands approach to this.

[slackmaster]

12. The science has gotten so intricate it's very hard for a lay person to digest

Or for a scientist looking at something other than his or her own field of study.

A wealth of information about solar activity is available here:

http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/stp/SOLAR/solarda3.html

Looking at it, I honestly can't tell whether the amount the Sun is heating the Earth is increasing or decreasing. So many different measurements that can be interpreted in different ways. I found this interesting (from link above):

Solar radiation drives the weather machine. Variations in the Sun's radiative output impact the Earth's climate. The NOAA Climate Analysis Center currently uses solar cycle data in their U.S. seasonal winter forecasts. Spacecraft observations show the Sun's output varied by 0.1% during the past 11-year solar activity cycle, producing a climate forcing of 0.24 W/m2. Climate forcing by increasing greenhouse gases from 1980 to 1986 was about 0.25 W/m2. Global change models need to discern between variations caused by anthropogenic and natural occurrences to provide a sound scientific basis for policy making on global change issues. The NGDC archives are part of a cross-disciplinary effort within NOAA to link observed changes on the Sun with terrestrial climate. To contact the NGDC on-line services, use the following addresses on the Geophysical On-Line Data (GOLD) system:
FTP access: ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov;
Gopher: -- no longer available>;
World Wide Web: http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov...

We paid for this work, we should feel free to wallow in it and comment on it.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

15. The TRUTH is that his ideas aren't popular with the scientific community.

And I hope that you're not suggesting that I'm trying to politicize science. I'm just pointing out that the man quoted is at odds with the scientific consensus, per the very same article. I'm not a climate specialist. So I'm just going to have to cast my lot with those that are. And the consensus is that no, it is not due to solar changes, at least the simple changes that were put forth in the study, HOWEVER, it may be due to solar changes that are more complex.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

9. Thanks

[Solon]

3. People seem to forget that Mars has seasons...

In this case, the Southern polar ice cap was melting, because it was SUMMER in the southern hemisphere of Mars. Both ice caps shrink and grow during the Martian seasons, which are about the same as Earth's, its axial tilt it at a similar, if little larger, angle. People also seem to forget that Mars has a year that's about twice as long as ours and an orbit that is more oblique. Therefore its seasons last twice as long, and during some of them, temperatures can be MUCH higher during some parts of the year than others.

Because of this, its seasons are a little more "extreme" than Earth's, though still much colder than ours. Mars has greater variation in solar radiation hitting it than on Earth, so a combination of a long summer and being closer to the Sun will combine to shrink an ice cap quite a bit.

[Canuckistanian]

5. It's ONE scientist from Russia

I covered it here, in another post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=2772683&mesg_id=2774122

[Balbus]

6. Them sneaky Reds!

[SemiCharmedQuark]

8. Thanks much

[Canuckistanian]

11. No problem

:hi:

[soothsayer]

13. not just Mars but the whole solar system BUT it doesn't

mean man's not contributing significantly to global warming, or that we shouldn't do all in our power to fight against the next ice age.

[pampango]

14. Kick.