Who the F*ck hires a babysitter for a 2 y.o girl from craigslist??!!

[Ecumenist]

MINNEAPOLIS – A Minnesota man has pleaded guilty to answering an online advertisement for baby-sitting work and then using the client's child to make a pornographic video.
~snip~




Further, who the hell is demented enough to allow a 23year old man, a BLOODY STRANGER, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD, to babysit their innocent 2 year old little girl??


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081205/ap_on_re_us/craigslist_porn_video

[NashVegas]

1. Someone With Few Options

Probably living away from or estranged from their family, and with few friends they feel comfortable asking.

[Taverner]

2. Exactly

Don't blame the victim

[AlexinVA]

7. The victim is the child

The stupid parent on the other hand needs a butt-kicking. :grr:

What could have been so important that this parent would leave his/her TWO-YEAR OLD child with a MAN found through CRAIGSLIST?!?!?!?!?!!? :wtf:

Beyond disgusting!

[Taverner]

20. OK - so where in that Craigslist ad did it say "I will do kiddie porn with your spawn"?

Come on

Don't be a dick

[AlexinVA]

27. Dick?

Don't have one.

But thanks for the advice.

I stand by my earlier statement about this "parent."

[Taverner]

112. Ones does not necesarrily need to posess one to be one

[JI7]

29. any parent who leaves kids with 23 year guys from craigslist is an idiot

of course sexual abusers aren't going to admit it.

even if the guy didn't do anything to harm the child it would be stupid to get someone to watch your kid that way.

[walldude]

86. Right next to where it said "Please, let a total stranger you met

on the internet protect the most valuable thing on the planet." :eyes:

[SmileyRose]

91. More than 80% of abusers are a parent or someone close to the child

http://www.baltimorecountymd.gov/Agencies/police/community/abuse.html


Surely one should use the appropriate amount of caution when dealing with a child's caretakers, but the automatic assumption a stranger is more dangerous than family is proven to be wrong.

[Dorian Gray]

102. You can't

possibly think it's smart that a parent hired a babysitter from Craig's List? A stranger with no credentials or references or anything.

[SmileyRose]

116. Where did you get he produced no credentials or reference?

that's something I have not seen reported one way or the other.

[petronius]

75. There is a huge gap between "blaming the victim" and pointing out that

someone was stupider than a sack of extremely stupid rocks. "Don't blame the victim" is a wildly overused phrase, IMO...

[Withywindle]

96. The "parent" (using the term loosely) is not the victim here.

The child is.

[glowing]

12. Exactly what I was thinking.

You never know what you get. I really think having a govt provided daycare service would be really, really, really great. Instead of waiting until Kindergarten, provide services from infant on. Children would be provided for by people with background checks and children would be much better prepared to enter into grade school... 3 yr ols could be learning numbers and letters. My son has a speach and language issue. We got him into a federal program that puts him in school. Even though he has difficulty with language, he's extremely bright. He's caught on quickly and speaks in sentences now.. only after a year. He's also great with numbers and can spell his own name. He's starting to understand that the letters in the song go to the symbols on the page and those symbols in a certain order are words I'm reading to him from a story. Without the specialized program, he'd be so far behind by the time kindergarten rolled around. Its been amazing.. AND now, I've been playing with him on numbers and putting objects together.. so, he's beginning to do math. AT 4 (he likes numbers much more than letters).

Anyway a daycare that is reliable and as safe as possible is something we should have... especially since they litterally force two parents into the work force. Half the worry of the mother is some crazy person ducktaping their baby's mouth and throwing them in a closet. You spend 9 months getting fat and hormonal, hours in labor, and then trust a stranger because you have to pay the mortgage and electric and groceries... the entire system sucks.

[Crunchy Frog]

21. Gosh, maybe you could attend a church or something.

Not a great solution, but it beats finding perverts off of Craigslist.

[NashVegas]

24. You Know What They Teach You In Church, Right?

That old trusty, "judge not lest ye be ...."

[Crunchy Frog]

31. How about a Unitarian Church

where most of the membership at least seems to value good judgement. :shrug:

[Taverner]

113. And dare I even start with Priests who molest kids - how stupid could a parent be?

To leave their kid with known pedophiles!!!!

:sarcasm: for the blame the victim crowd

[NashVegas]

114. Everyone's Gotta Have a Dog

[kdmorris]

35. Really?

That's your answer? She should have gone to church?

:puke:

[Crunchy Frog]

106. It's one way to find a ready made social support network.

:puke: yourself.

[kdmorris]

109. Oh, I know that

But I happen to think it's pretty disgusting that your answer to what happened is to go to church. You do realize that Christians commit crimes, too? That the people in church are strangers, too? I wouldn't leave my child with a stranger, period. Whether that stranger is a man or woman, or whether I went to church with them.

You solution to this issue leaves a lot to be desired.

[Crunchy Frog]

120. Eh, you're right. I was way out of line.

It obviously makes much more sense for a person with "few options" to find a stranger on Craigslist than to find and hook into a meaningful social support network. What could I have possibly been thinking?

Not my "solution" btw, just my stupid idea about a possible alternative option. It's probably just a product of the radical Christian indoctrination I've been recieving from the atheists at the Unitarian church I've been going to. Whatever.

[kdmorris]

122. Did I say they should have gotten a babysitter on Craigslist?

I'm saying that just because someone goes to church doesn't mean that they are not a pedophile. And so I don't think that it would be a BETTER solution to join a church. Unless you've been at a church for a LONG time, the social network you've built is no better than the social network you've built at work or in your neighborhood. Just because people go to church (Unitarian or otherwise) does NOT make them more moral than a person you've built other social networks. It doesn't NOT make them more trustworthy than the people in your neighborhood.

I don't know why these people got a babysitter off of Craigslist. That was pretty fucking stupid, in my opinion, even if they felt that they had few options. I just don't believe that, in the midst of all that, your ONLY "alternative solution" is to join a church.

[Crunchy Frog]

125. Did I put that forward as the "ONLY" alternative solution?

It was just an idea, not "THE solution". I guess my main point was to try to find some sort of social support netword. I could have found a better way to say it without triggering such a knee-jerk response.

[kdmorris]

126. OK

I agree with that.

No, you didn't say it was the ONLY alternative.

[dixiegrrrrl]

70. Good idea. Don't have to worry about perverts in a Church.

[Warren DeMontague]

103. Yeah. Why not just leave the kids with kindly old Father McFondlefingers.

...cough.

[Crunchy Frog]

107. Not all churches are full of fundamentalist perverts.

There are liberal churches, and even churches full of atheists (Unitarian). It's one way to hook into a social network that will have many other families with young children.

I am now going to a Unitarian church for no other reason than that I'm pregnant with twins and feel like I can use the social support. It's not an ideal solution, but I'd say that it beats craigslist. It's at least something to consider for someone with few options. :shrug:

[Mojorabbit]

26. Even if I had limited options

I would have got character references from others before I would leave my child with anyone.

[Ecumenist]

128. AMEN Mojo, that what's I was saying... You VET the person

tremendously using their references and if they have none to give, then the whole thing about sitting with my kid? Not so much...

[Ecumenist]

41. I'm sorry....Craigslist is minimally trustworthy at best and I've heard

of AND KNOW people who have been screwed in answering an ad for services OR products. Why someone would think that they could hire someone off of CRAIGSLIST for God's sake, MAN, WOMAN, CHILD OR BEAST and then turn around and place them alone with their toddler is mindbogglingly insane.

[NashVegas]

76. Yeah

And she'll pay the price in guilt until finally, one day, when her kid works up enough anger to rip into her.

I read your story below, and I'm so sorry for what you went through.

Like many on DU, I had some nasty experiences of my own and, some time ago, finally arrived at the conclusion that there's just no way we're ever going to be able to entirely eliminate child abuse. IMO, the best we can do is learn to cope with it, and offer comfort and emotional support to the victims.

[Ecumenist]

130. Thank you Crisco.... I am all too aware that we can't eliminate

child abuse, sadly BUT my point as the OP is that why anyone would think that they could hire someone off of craigslist, considering craiglsit's reputation, to sit with their 2 yo toddler, is amazingly mindboggling. I wouldn't hire someone from Craigslist to sit with my pet iguana.

[nini]

118. Having few options is no excuse

I've been there. I would NEVER have left my son with someone I couldn't get some kind of verifiable info on - EVER.

[Ecumenist]

132. Amen NINI!! If I can't find dependable and confirmed safe

childcare, I DON'T GO OUT! There are means of finding childcare for one's child that don't include hiring perverted weirdos off of craigslist.

[lapfog_1]

3. Saw a lot of these threads yesterday...

and I had one question... what's the difference between craigslist and the newspaper or just about any other non-vetted "job wanted" posting area (the random piece of paper stuck to the bulletin board at the grocery store with the tear-off phone numbers)?

Just curious. Why does everyone mention craigslist as if it would be so much worse than any other media outlet?

Much worse than using craigslist is the amount of background information the parents obtained from the "babysitter" after they contacted him.

[pitohui]

11. yeah but gets background info on their babysitter?

i was hired as a babysitter at 12 yrs old, fuck, there wasn't any "background" on me to get

we need some kind of nat'l childcare in this country, but as it is, if you go thru a service, it's more than "real" people can afford to pay

and if you just hire some kid under the table, ok, most of the time, most people even kids are well meaning, hell, even my brother did some baby sitting in his day and trust me not to make porn movies with the kids but because it's a job you can do w.out any much physical labor unlike lawncare or something...

in an ideal world everyone would be all vetted and in return receive AT LEAST the min. pay scale for a job, but it ain't an ideal world

many of us on DU probably worked as babysitters under the table and weren't vetted, yet we somehow restrained ourselves from molesting the brats in our care

don't blame the victims for not having money or not being private detectives, blame the perp for being a creep

craigslist is certainly not to blame for any of it, it's a valid way to advertise your services

should everyone who puts an ad on craigslist now be assumed to be a pornographer, crap, i hope not!

[lapfog_1]

37. I'm sorry, but I wouldn't hand over a 2 year old

to someone that I didn't know personally nor could I get at least 3 references on from other parents. I would not only call the references, but might even invite one of them to meet me for coffee or something... and talk to their KIDS.

To me, this isn't much different than leaving the kid in the backseat of a car on a hot day with the windows rolled up.

If that's blaming the victim, than yeah, I'm blaming the victim. Because the REAL victim is the kid.

It doesn't cost a lot of money to get names and numbers and place some phone calls. Don't blame society for this.

Yeah, the guy is a sick fuck and should be put away. But the parents have a responsibility to do REASONABLE things to ensure the safety of their kid.

[pitohui]

44. you wouldn't OK but most people do

the question was "who" would do this

the answer is -- everyone i ever babysat for, everyone my siblings ever babysat for, pretty much the overwhelming majority of parents

in the real world, "who" gest references for babysitters? it's something you would do if you had all time and eternity, but most people don't

[lapfog_1]

62. Were you babysitting at the age of 20+

It's one thing to hire the neighborhood teenager to babysit, but even then I'd want to know that teenager at least as far as whether or not they are responsible. Hiring a stranger, and a grown man to boot, without checking any references? Really?

You think that's not only normal but acceptable?

Wow.

I think if this was a nationwide poll question, you wouldn't win that argument.

[pitohui]

82. no but my brother did and he didn't rape anyone or star in any porn films

i'm not trying to win an argument i'm trying to say let's not pour blame on people who are probably already pouring enough blame on themselves

most people who do this-- and a great many people DO do this -- don't have their baby show up as the star of a child porn film

how do you expect that to happen?

if you go thru life so suspicious, is it necessarily that your kid is going to be all that happy and healthy anyway? suspicion poisons too

i'm not trying to say i'm the perfect person, i'm trying to say these parents are not so unusual as we all pretend -- they did what millions have done

is there no place to be kind to people who tripped on a crack in the sidewalk? they didn't want their kid in a porn film, they didn't screw up on purpose, crap! have a heart! something bad happened that they didn't want to happen!

[Chan790]

119. Ageist and sexist...

classy.

Not that I am ever having kids, but if I did...I'd be more likely to leave my child with an adult than with another minor and I see no reason why a female is any better for babysitting than a male.

I might hire a babysitter off of Craigslist or from the classifieds, but I'd damned sure want to know as much as I could about them.

Better still would be if someone started a bonded and insured service of per-diem babysitting-professionals trained in CPR and basic first aid, experienced with children and fully background checked, ideally people with experience tutoring (for when the kidlet needs some help with arithmetic homework) and knowledge of basic nutrition (because my babysitters fed me Chef Boyardee for breakfast sometimes) so that parents didn't have to go to Craigslist to find a decent babysitter, even on short notice.

Screw it, I'm underemployed. I just might do that.

[kiva]

48. Agreed.

I did more checking than that when I hired someone to pet sit.

[lapfog_1]

64. Actually, considering some of the responses here...

Had it been a pet and not a kid, and had the sick fuck tortured the animal, I get the feeling there would be a lot more condemnation of the owners/parents.

[riverdeep]

34. I think it's because Craigslist also has those 'other' type of ads.

The ones with sexual freaks getting their freak on. It's probably a strange juxtaposition to see those two elements on the same site.

I think if someone advertised in an adult magazine offering baby sitting services, I'd be a little skeptical. Craigslist has more than just perverts of course, but it's well known for it, and I'm guessing that's why people say 'wtf?'.

[lapfog_1]

39. Newspapers advertise escorts and strip clubs.

craigslist has a "personals" section. They also advertise escorts and whatnot. But that is hardly the focus of most of their categories.

To me craigslist is simply an alternative to newspaper want ads.

I would hardly compare craigslist to an adult magazine.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

4. In my work, I deal with victims of sexual abuse

These women have had their lives ruined because of what happened to them. Decades later, they have flashbacks, and their emotional state because of what happened to them has caused them difficulties throughout their lives. In my mind, this person, if found guilty, should be put away for 30 years at a minimum, not maximum.

[amdezurik]

6. not to be too quick on the draw

but it sure is nice that "only" women are subject to that kind of thing...

[gollygee]

16. Maybe she's only worked with women who deal with it

She's talking about her work, not about all victims of sexual abuse.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

47. Yes, that is what I meant

Thank you for understanding my post, gollygee.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

45. I know that men can also be abused

Apparently I wasn't clear in my post--the patients we deal with who are victims of abuse happen to all be women. That is why I said what I did, not because I feel only women can be abuse victims.

[my2sense]

5. Someone looking to be paid

I can't believe anyone would be so stupid as to actually seek a sitter from craigslist.

[SmileyRose]

69. the quality of craiglist depends on the area. It isn't all the same

I'm in south metro Atlanta and have many very positive experiences with craigslist (and a few not so great) I hired an exterior painter from craigslist and checked references/workers comp and liability coverage just like I would finding a painter from any other venue.

If I had small kids, no family or friends that could get the job done or refer to someone they trusted and needed someone I would have no qualms about posting on craigslist, checking references and paying for a background check just like I would the day care center or the neighbor's glowingly recommended niece in college.

There's absolutely no information one way or the other from anything I have seen that the mother did or did not check references and background. If she didn't, even if it's someone she thinks she knows, then shame on her. If she did, then IMHO it doesn't matter where she found her sitter.

[Book Lover]

8. Maybe it depends on where you are - here in SF, I'd have no problem with it

You email each other, agree to meet at a coffee shop or the like, vet each other and take it from there. Why blame craigslist for this guy's criminal actions?

[JI7]

28. not blaming craigslist but the stupid parent who left the baby with a 23 year old man

[SmileyRose]

72. my husband, my dad and my brothers were all 23 once

there's nothing stupid about leaving a child with a 23 year old man. A lot of 23 year old men are fathers.

[JI7]

78. there is something wrong if they are a stranger

i know 15 year olds, 18 year old guys who would do a good job babysitting. but these are people i know.

[PetrusMonsFormicarum]

9. The openness of Craigslist

is regularly ruined by opportunists and grifters. It's been cultivated to feel folksy and community-building, and in its best forms, it does. Easy pickings for borderline sociopaths with wi-fi.

[gaspee]

10. I wouldn't trust

Any strange man with a 2 year old. Sorry, but I wouldn't. While *most* men are not going to abuse children, *most* abusers are men. I would want background checks on any women I hired, but I don't think I would hire a guy I did not know very well or who didn't come with stellar references from someone I knew well.

I'd rather hurt the feelings of strange men than take the chance of leaving my two year old with someone who would hurt them. There's no fixing that.

[AlexinVA]

15. Agree wholeheartedly...

but would add that there are men who are not strangers (read: relatives) who I also wouldn't trust leaving a child with.

[ContinentalOp]

13. Why the fuck would you let a 23 year old man babysit your 2 year old anyway?

disgusting. :puke:

[pitohui]

25. in college my brother babysat kids for extra money once in awhile

he didn't rape any of them or make porn movies w. any of them

c'mon, folks, let's admit it, this kind of thing is RARE, you cannot assume that every man you meet is just dying to get alone w. your 2 yr old to make porn movies

how can you live if you have to walk around thinking every man you meet is potentially so hateful?

let's put the blame where it belongs, on the creep

the parents are beating themselves up over this enough as it is, trust me, but thousands of parents have done the same with no harm to anyone

the blame belongs to the CREEP

[ContinentalOp]

65. Sorry, but this is a triple whammy of stupidity.

I wouldn't trust a 23 year old guy to take care of my child. I wouldn't trust a stranger to take care of my child. And I wouldn't trust somebody that I found on Craigslist to take care of my child. So I sure as hell wouldn't hire a strange 23 year old male babysitter from Craigslist!

[JerseygirlCT]

81. But why would you not trust a 23 yo guy?

Is it the age or the gender?

Really, some of the young men I know would make far more responsible babysitters than the women. Assuming that female body parts makes you automatically better and more responsible when taking care of children is sort of strange to me.

[ContinentalOp]

92. Because I've been one!

It's both the age and the gender. I'm sure there are great 23 year old male babysitters but I'm not betting my child's safety on it. As many have already pointed out, the majority of child molesters are male. When I was 23, the idea of being a babysitter was the furthest possible thing from my mind. I kind of question the motivation of any 23 year old guy who would want to do that.

[JerseygirlCT]

110. My husband babysat

I'd trust my son to do the same in a heartbeat. In fact, now that he's off to school, my first choice for a babysitter would be one of his male friends - far more responsible than many of his female friends!

I guess I just know (and raise) different kind of men?

[Quantess]

98. I agree with you 100%

For one thing, it is very suspicious that a 23 year old man would want to babysit a stranger's child. If this doesn't raise any red flags for you, then maybe you were born yesterday.

It's one thing to ask a 23 year old man that you already know, would you please babysit my daughter?. At least you know his character a little bit.

A man you don't know, coming forward and offering to babysit your child, is obviously up to no good.

[JerseygirlCT]

111. Yes, but it's the stranger part

Not the male part per se.

Any stranger would set off warnings to be honest. Yes, a male stranger maybe more so.

But I wouldn't hesitate at all to ask a young man I know to sit because he's a man.

[Quantess]

129. agreed.

[Common Sense Party]

94. And the parents he babysat for didn't know your brother from Adam?

No prior relationship? No character references?

Sorry. I don't hire ANY man to babysit my kids, ESPECIALLY some unknown quantity who answers my internet ad.

That's beyond irresponsible.

[RedCappedBandit]

30. Is there something inherently wrong with 23 year old men?

:wtf:

[ContinentalOp]

63. I don't know any 23 year old men that I would trust to watch my daughter.

And I'm not talking about abuse but just the typical irresponsibility of your average 20-something guy. Hell I'm not sure I would trust myself at 23 to take care of a child, let alone a stranger.

[mondo joe]

46. Well there's some stupid sexist shit. NT

[JerseygirlCT]

80. That's silly

I've known plenty of wonderful young men who I'd have gladly entrusted with that job.

It's not the gender of the babysitter that's the issue. It's the lack of information on the babysitter's person and background.

[originalpckelly]

115. I'm 22 and I babysit my niece.

Although I am gay and I used to like make a nest of stuffed animals and take care of them when I was little, so I guess I'm not your normal 22 year old male. :P (By the way, GI Joe was such a good dad!)

[Critters2]

14. I'e always wondered why people hire undocumented workers

they've never met to care for their children or elderly parents, too. Because they work cheap? Why wouldn't you hire the best qualified, best trained person available to take care of your most valuable relationships? People who hire unvetted people, or who skimp on childcare or elder care just leave me stunned.

[pitohui]

22. because hard as it is to believe most people have VERY limited funds

back in the day i and my siblings, including a male sibling, were among those under the table sitters --
and at times we sat for kids of people we'd never met before -- how the hell else would we get new customers?

my best guess is that we were infinitely more at risk of being harmed than any of those kids were -- considering how drunk some of the husbands were that drove me home and how "handy" some of them were -- i'd say we were DEFINITELY more at risk

yes, it was because we worked cheap

most people can't afford the best qualified, best trained person available, that's the best qualified, best trained people tend to work for celebrities and the wealthy, most middle class/working class have very little disposable income at the end of the day

be honest, if a loved one was arrested, did you hire johnny cochran, if a loved one has cancer, did you fly to the mayo clinic? no, you got the lawyer your buddy at work knew, and you went to the doctor on your insurance plan no matter how mediocre or uncomfortable you felt with him

that's the way it is in capitalist society -- only the well to do can afford to make decisions without regard to cost

i honestly shouldn't have to explain that this time of century

most people who work cheap aren't evil, they're just unknown and have no way to promote themselves or get bonded (too young, i started babysitting at 11 or 12, can't recall now, but it was illegally young for the number of hours i worked per week)

[Critters2]

32. Actually, if I think something is worth having it done, I think it should be

done as well as possible, and I pay for what I consider important. And yes, my mother was treated at Mayo Clinic.

I've known two families who hired undocumented workers to care for their elderly parents. In one case, the "24 hour worker" would give the elderly man enough booze to fall asleep each evening, and then sneak out of the house to hit the bars.

In the second case, the worker regularly hit the elderly man when he didn't move fast enough or whatever to suit her. And no, these were not poor families. Quite the opposite. They could have afforded trained workers from companies with bonded employees. They weren't poor. They were cheap. Until the problems arose. And then, suddenly, they could pony up the funds for real care.

There are things worth doing on the cheap. Care for any human being ain't one of 'em. This should be the biggest expenditure in any family's budget.

[pitohui]

49. well i'm glad you had the money for that, most people don't

unfortunately in the real world, for most of us, the most expensive thing in the budget is putting a roof over the head and food on the table

i don't believe my mom would wish to be treated if by being treated she would have been beggared, well, actually, from seeing her living will i know this to be the case -- if you are going to destroy your family financially with your demands for "the best," in most families, it would be better had you never been born


most people can't afford "the best" and to blame them for not being rich is just obscene in my view

we all do the best we can

i think it's incumbent on those who have been given much and who can afford "the best" to at least shut the fuck up with the "let them eat cake" crap -- do you not understand how cruel that is?

[Critters2]

53. I'm not wealthy. Indeed, my income is below the mean in my state.

I just set priorities. Some things are important, even vital. Oh, and I consider care for family members part of "putting a roof overhead and food on the table". It's a basic need, and should be met well. Good health care and safety are not luxuries. They are necessities, and should not be sourced out to the lowest bidder.

[pitohui]

83. it doesn't matter how many priorities i set, i could never afford the mayo clinic

you are not telling the truth because most of us can't afford hundreds of thousands of dollars -- or even millions of dollars -- for cancer treatment -- either you have more $$ than you admit or you didn't do what you say

i guess your "state" is the emirates or dubai or something because c'mon --
lies do not convince and most people DO have multiple friends and family members who have had cancer so we know what it costs

if we could just pay for cancer care out of pocket there would be no need for the whole health insurance debate

you are just embarrassing yourself with the "let them eat cake" crap, miss marie, get over it

[FloridaJudy]

42. We hired an illegal alien

To care for my former father-in-law. I've probably blown any chances I ever had to run for political office for admitting this (as if my mother's life-long Socialism wasn't enough). She was wonderful - conscientious, caring and professional. We found her through asking friends who also had needed help caring for an aging relative. We also paid her very well, though less than what a home health agency, let alone a nursing home, would have charged.

It also helps that my former FIL while physically feeble was still mentally competent. I shudder to think of what can happen to those who aren't.

[Critters2]

56. I've seen what happens to those who aren't.

Which is why my father will have a bonded caregiver or nursing home care when the time comes. Some things you don't skimp on.

[pitohui]

84. "let them eat cake" EOM

/

[Book Lover]

17. Whoa - and I thought I was the angry "man-hating" feminist

At least I'd give a man a chance: if he were genuine, interested, and qualified, I'd be just as happy letting a man as a woman babysit my child.

[AlexinVA]

23. Hope he'd be someone you really know well...

A lot of perverts can come across as genuine, interested and even qualified... because they are con-artists with experience in convincing women to trust them with their children.

[pitohui]

51. i do not think many perverts come across as genuine, interested, and qualified

actually i would say that this is very unusual that a perv could disguise himself so well

[gollygee]

55. Read the book "Protecting the Gift"

It's written by someone who specializes in this and he says they are able to disguise themselves quite well.

[pitohui]

87. so ho-kay, you are basing your opinion on a pop psych book

well that's nice


there must be a lot of fear in your world, where even the folk who seem right...are still wrong and secret perverts

seriously how do you sleep at night?

[gollygee]

88. Better a book written by an expert than pulling it out of my ass. n/t

[jillan]

18. This is one of those stories that breaks my heart too much to even think about.

:(

[JI7]

19. ok, if i was desperate enough to leave a child with any stranger, it would never be a man

especially some 23 year old.

i would probably leave them with some older lady or some other woman who was caring for other kids.

[Withywindle]

97. As a childhood sexual abuse survivor whose perps (yes, plural) were female...

I just want out of this thread NOW 'cause it's too damn triggering. Nice to know that lots of women still think women are "safer" by default. SUCH bullshit.

[kdmorris]

33. What amazes me...

is the number of posts indicating that the reason it was bad for the woman to leave her 2 year old with this person is because he's a man...not because he's a pedophile.

How is that any less sexist than judging all women based on the actions of one?

[gollygee]

36. It's about as sexist as blaming just the mom with no mention of the dad

What amazes me . . . is the number of posts indicating that the reason it was bad for the woman to leave her 2 year old with this person is because he's a man...not because he's a pedophile.

How is that any less sexist than judging all women based on the actions of one?

[kdmorris]

79. Your point is taken

It doesn't say that the person who hired the babysitter was a woman or the mother.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

38. Statistics.

Certainly there are women who are sexual predators but the vast majority are men.

[gogoplata]

40. Sorry- A responsible adult does not leave their 2 year old baby with a strange man.

Period.

Sexist or not, I'm a man, I could care less. The overwhelmingly vast majority of sex crimes are committed by males. It's not even close.

Open up the baby manual and you will see Rule #1- Don't give your child to a strange man.

[gaspee]

52. That's exactly what I said

While *most* men are not abusers, *most* sex crimes against children are committed by men. I would still want references from women, but if I had a two year old, I wouldn't leave him/her with a man. Of course, there are exceptions, but talking in generalities and statistics, it's just too risky. 99,999 out of 100,000 guys would probably be fine, but why would someone risk the life of their child. Those odds aren't good enough when you are talking about the very life of an innocent baby.

It's so devastating to the life of that child that I don't think it's worth the risk. That said, I would hire a man with good references to house sit if I went away - I have no problem risking property, but the life of a child shouldn't be put at risk. Even if the risk is small.

[riverdeep]

73. Well, strictly speaking mathmatically, that just doesn't make any sense.

Getting something right 99,999 times out of 100,000 is an extraordinarily good deal, on whatever endeavor you undertake. Consider that taking that same child into a moving vehicle increases the odds of that child's death by many more times, something most parents do many times per week.

However, I understand very well the subtext of your thinking, that most guys aren't going to do anything weird, but why take an unneeded risk? Erring on the side of caution is human- if we can afford it.

[JI7]

85. i also think most young men who would NOT harm a child would also NOT want to babysit

a kid they did not have any relation to.

[Quantess]

121. Bingo.

(I hate saying "bingo", but I think it fits here.)

[kdmorris]

123. That's beyond sexist

The only reason a young man would want to babysit is to have sex with the little kids? My brother babysit kids throughout his teenage years, until he joined the Navy. He never harmed one of them, never even thought about it.

Edited to add: Why would a young woman want to babysit children that are not her own?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

43. I don't have kids, but if I were desperate for a babysitter, I would

ask other parents in the neighborhood for recommendations.

[Ecumenist]

50. Amen, Lydia... And then you vet, check double check and then re check..

did I say, I WOULD CHECK THEM 15x OVER??

[pitohui]

57. no you wouldn't and even if you did, how?

as i said upstream i was 12 when i started babysitting, there wouldn't be any information to check

parents got my name by passing it around, how did the first parent get my name, obv. by being desperate enough to hire a 12 yr old who knocked on her door and pointed to my house down the street, at least they knew where i lived, tee hee!!!!

i could have (did have) dozens of references before it was all over and mostly no one ever called them, it would have been pointless, it was all everybody saying what everyone would say, which is i was cheap and reliable and didn't have her boyfriend over while sitting the kids but it all goes back to someone who was desperate enough to hire a 12 yr old

at the end of the day you can call all of those references, who is going to say "oh fuck, no i just hired her because i'm a bad mom and i was busy?" everybody gets a good reference until they don't, don't they?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

59. Actually, no

As you mentioned, a babysitter who had her boyfriend over while the parents were gone would not get good references.

Neither would one that the children didn't like.

[Ecumenist]

66. Oh-ho-ho, no!! Although I understand what you're saying....

I am referring to THE MODERN day... as in now, 2008! If you read my post later on in the thread, I am a woman who was R-A-P-E-D 5 days a week for a year @ 5 years old by a young uncle who my mother thought she knew. seeing as how he lived upstairs in the two family house we lived in. Consequently, I WILL NOT JUST ACCEPT ANYONE, MAN, WOMAN OR BEAST to sit with my children. I wouldn't hire you or anyone else who isn't vetted.

[SmileyRose]

74. and so goes the damage left behind.

someone I loved got drunk and beat me up when I was 8 and more or less left me for dead. Nothing near what you went through and it took A LOT for me to trust any man outside my dad and brothers. What I put my husband through the first 10 years of marriage....even AFTER therapy. Even now, every single day I have to tell myself men are not all dangerous fucking assholes hell bent on hurting other people.

I feel for you. I have a small, very small, understanding of where you are coming from. But 23 year old men are not any more or less trustworthy than they were in 1969. The truth is, it's the luck of the draw. Every abuser has their first victim. You can vet someone till the cows come home and they can be the cleanest most upstanding person on the planet. Then they get into your home and for whatever reason decide your kid is the target, your stuff is free for the taking etc. A reasonable amount of checking is called for, and I don't think we know whether or not this mom did that (if that was reported I have not seen it).

[Dorian Gray]

104. If parents were passing your name around....

that's a reference.

That's how I got my babysitting jobs when I was a teen. Because the parents liked me and recommended me to other people, and so on. There were no formal
recommendations, but in a small town, they knew me or my parents or some of my friends and their parents. Word of mouth was the reference.

[madmom]

131. Actually by pointing to your door down the street is giving a refernce because you

are/where a neighborhood kid who believe it or not made some kind of impression on the adults or they would not have hired you.

[riverdeep]

54. Looking back on it, I was babysat by some people my parents hardly knew,

it turned out ok by luck or whatever, but that was sometimes how it was done. One of these people was a 30 year old or so man, it was only for one day, and I wasn't molested. He was just bored most of the time, listening to a little kid talk about his day.

Then again, schools spanked children to within an inch of their lives in the past, too, so things change for the better also, if you're not of the 'spare the rod, spoil the child' camp.

[pitohui]

58. we ALL were

these parents had bad luck and will blame themselves forever, i'm not in the mood to shit on them forever

the creep is to blame for being a creep, not the parents

[Ecumenist]

60. You were lucky because I was babysat by an uncle by marrriage

when I was 5 years old and I was raped, (full penetration) EACH DAY of the work week for a year. This was in the 1969 and I have suffered ever since. I don't beleive that ALL men are pedophiles BUT taking someone off of CRAIGSLIST without any references one could meet with and discuss things personally or via proxy, by phone, is RIDICULOUS. Women can be offenders too but the chances of a problem of this sort occurring MUCH higher with MEN.

[gaspee]

67. Exactly

*Most* men are not abusers, but *most* abusers are men. I don't think the risk is worth it when the very life of an innocent child is at stake.

[AlexinVA]

68. So sorry for what you had to go through...

Just hearing you tell of it is painful. So, I know the reality of having experienced it and having to re-live it through memories has to be 1000x worse.

I also had some male pervs in my family... That's why I said above that there are males that one may even know (let alone strangers off of Craigslist) that aren't fit to babysit a child. Selecting a man off of the Internet to babysit one's child is absolutely brainless though.

[pitohui]

89. but don't you see the problem here?

you were raped by a family member, and to my understanding, almost all of child rapes are committed by family members

your mom would have done better to hire some random to sit with you, full pen of a 5 yr old is extremely extremely rare and almost certainly no matter how weird the random baby sitter out of the grocery store bulletin board etc. there's almost no chance the STRANGER would have harmed you

we get hysterical about "stranger danger" but the real danger is family members who assume we'll cover for them -- a stranger simply wouldn't dare so much

[ContinentalOp]

93. That's a pretty shitty thing to say to someone who went through that. -nt-

[Ecumenist]

127. Thank you so much for that comment ... I didn't even think that it merited a response in kind.

Frankly, I believe that full penetration of young children is alot more common. I KNOW that alot of parents and children are loathe to testify in such cases in very graphic terms because of concerns of further trauma to the victims.

[Ecumenist]

99. Actually, Pitohui, this uncle was a "new" one.

My mother married her high school sweetheart, moved from Tulsa Oklahoma to North Chicago, Illinois and my stepfather's sister and her 18 yo son moved in and took up residence upstairs. So, it's not different from a stranger that someone hires to take charge of their children while they work. He was, in fact, a stranger.

[Dorian Gray]

105. One of the reasons why children are raped more by family

than by strangers? Because they are left alone with family a lot more than strangers. If we were to start leaving children alone every day with strangers, those numbers would probably go up exponentially.

[SmileyRose]

71. I babysat a lot of kids based on a flyer I took door to door.

People didn't even know me from adam. My parents only asked to know the address and phone of where I was going to babysit. Anything could have happened to me - and almost always the man of the family drove me home just the two of us in the car well after midnight. If something had happened to me I can't imagine how painful it would be for my parents - especially if someone decided to pass judgement on their parenting skills.

I bought my home almost 30 years ago on a downpayment saved by evening babysitting, evening house scrubbing, cleaning out the garages of strangers.

[pitohui]

90. yea me too

and thinking of back in the day and some of those drunk as fuck "dads" who drove me home...it is teh creepy...but i survived and in any case i would not blame my parents

i wanted to earn and be part of the economy and provide for myself, this does not make me evil nor did it make my parents evil

[Sheepshank]

61. sometimes..

if you are desperate for a babysitter and you can't find one you know, can't find one through friends, firnds' kids, through neighbors, anyone with some reference...you just don't go out.

[dysfunctional press]

77. somebody got a 2 year-old girl from craigslist?

:shrug:

[Crunchy Frog]

124. Yeah, looks like it. It seems to be a good place to find that sort of thing.

[Mollis]

95. I don't trust Craigslist

Not with all these stories that pop up about it.

[LisaL]

100. That poor child.

[Dorian Gray]

101. Wow.

I can't imagine any parent, no matter what their circumstance is, thinking it's a good idea to use a stranger to babysit. HORRIBLE!

[moriah]

108. Craigslist has other people asking for/offering babysitting services.

She wasn't the only person who has considered offering or asking for babysitting services through Craigslist.

Although, I would be more likely, if I didn't know anybody from Adam in a new city, to have looked for a babysitter through something like Babysitters.com, where at least they have references and background checks for the sitters. They have 2 pages of sitters for my small town...

...

Anyway... the real creep is the person who was demented enough to harm an innocent child. I'm sure that parent will regret their decision for the rest of their lives without our condemnation added in.

I do have a bit of an odd view on this, however, I suppose. My father molested my older sister. He had a lot of other faults, and many would have asked why in the hell my mother would have married someone like him, but she didn't expect him to be a perv. When my sister told what happened to her, Mom divorced him and did her best to make sure that neither she nor I would be harmed by him again. Mom didn't want to put my sister through testifying, so she gave him a choice -- he could either leave the state and not see me until I was 16, or she would go to the police. He left the state and I was protected from him until I was old enough to be able to protect myself.

But my mother, hating herself for marrying someone who harmed her child and blaming herself for not being discerning enough, swore that I would never have a stepfather. She became morbidly obese in an effort to punish herself and drive men away, and she kept her oath to herself -- she finally remarried a few years ago.

I know another mother who, when her daughter finally told that her stepfather had abused her, after supporting her daughter through prosecution of the asshole, attempted suicide because she felt she was to blame for choosing a man who harmed her daughter.

Those parents are going to hate themselves enough. I choose to hate the person who would harm a child.

[SmileyRose]

117. You just added a lot to this thread

I thank you.

[carlyhippy]

133. I have only been on Craigslist a couple of times....

I don't think so.......

I was always paranoid about even local people watching my kids, children are too precious to leave with just anybody..