I just watched "who killed the electric car?" I have a question

[proud patriot]

Why can't GM just start producing the EV1 Impact again?

That little car was perfect for our needs . At least in
California some of the infrastructure has been built.

Why couldn't GM be forced to resuscitate (CPR) the electric
car?

It's the best alternative IMHO.

[SharonRB]

1. As I understand it, they sold the technology to BP

and you know what they did with it. It certainly wasn't in their best interests to get the car made. What I wonder is why companies like Tesla and Fisker Automotive are able to build electric cars (of course at a high cost for now) and the Big Three seem unable to get it done. I know they're on the verge, but the technology has been there for a while and they just didn't pick up the ball fast enough.

[Kalyke]

4. They can build them - but no one could afford them.

Just like the average person can't afford the Tesla and Fisker products.

This is the meat of the matter: GE and Ford have the technology, but they know that the Average Joe can't afford teh $60,000 price tag. They're trying to get the cost down around the $30,000 range.

[wtmusic]

14. They're "trying" to do nothing of the sort

and I guess you never saw the movie, where we find out that GM crushed 1,200 EV1s - every last one - (which all had buyers, btw) in the desert.

Ford did a similar number on the Think. How much do think the petroleum industry would stand to lose with practical electric cars? I wonder if they had a hand in the matter.

[SharonRB]

23. I have no doubt they had a huge hand in the matter.

I was appalled when I saw the movie. The people who were leasing the EV1s loved them and didn't want to give them up, but GM wouldn't let anyone keep them. As far as I'm concerned they were in cahoots with the oil companies.

[wtmusic]

11. The large-format NiMH battery patent was sold to Chevron-Texaco

GM owns the rest. No excuse to not come out with a Li-Ion version next year.

[SharonRB]

24. Oh, it was Chevron-Texaco?

I don't know why I thought it was BP. I stand corrected.

[kittykitty]

2. That's what I'd like to know, too. And why did no one ask the Detroit auto makers that question?

Surely they have heard of the film, if not seen it. Particularly the congress persons from Michigan.
The oil companies killed it. They should force them to build it again as part of the "loan".

[baldguy]

3. No reason at all - other than that *they don't want to*

[Kalyke]

5. They do want to, but we can't afford to purchase them.

:eyes:

[proud patriot]

7. That is true for the Hydrogen cell , but not the EV1 Impact

the market price came to monthly payments between 299-500 a month.

At least that's the number from the movie .

[msongs]

17. umm if they wanted to they would. economy of scale would reduce the price over time but they DON"T

want to. Car companies are too short sighted about their current infrastructure.

btw most people cannot afford a corvette but they are built anyway.

Msongs

[proud patriot]

6. But they want to make $ don't they ?

I think GM is in the strongest position to build and
market the product as long as they still own the
technology .

These people in charge need to let go of their fears.
I believe they will make bunches producing it .

outsell Toyota and Honda I bet .

They seem to be cutting their nose off despite their face.

[Billy Burnett]

8. The Asian car co's sell at a loss in the US.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4601642

[wtmusic]

16. Where's the "taking a loss" part?

All I see is a smaller profit margin.

[Richard Steele]

9. Because our "auto industry" is a subsidiary of our "Oil Industry", that's why.

You should watch "Taken For A Ride" sometime...much will become clear.

[wtmusic]

13. Ding!

Market Manipulation for $1,200, Alex!

[antimatter98]

10. Interesting Wiki on the EV1 and its variants.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

GM has been run by 'financial guys' instead of engineers for a long time,
and went off the rails, so here we are.

See today's N Y Times article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/06/business/06motors.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

[kristopher]

12. The technology Killed the EV1

The power to weight ratio was not strong enough to make it a viable transportation alternative.

Propulsion/Electronics

Configuration: Transverse-mounted, front-wheel drive

Motor Type: Three-phase, alternating current (AC) induction, electric

Power Rating: 102 kilowatts (137 horsepower) @ 7,000 rpm

Motor Torque: 150 Nm (110 lb-ft) @ 0-7,000 rpm

Transaxle Type: Single-speed with dual reduction gears

Drive Ratio: 10:946:1

Power Management System: Insulated gate bipolar transistor (IGBT) power inverter

Battery Packs:
Standard: 26 valve-regulated high-capacity lead-acid modules
Optional: 26 valve-regulated nickel-metal hydride modules
1 underhood accessory module

Rated Maximum Battery Pack Storage Capacity:
Standard: High-capacity lead-acid battery pack - 18.7 kW hours/60 amp hours (312 volts)
Optional: Nickel-metal hydride battery pack - 26.4 kW hours/77 amp hours (343 volts)

Battery Pack Weight:
Standard: High-capacity lead-acid battery pack - 1310 pounds
Optional: Nickel-metal hydride battery pack - 1147 pounds


Now compare that to the state of the art drive from AC Propulsion using lithium ion technology:
Li Ion, 35 kWh, 600 lb

That difference is what killed the EV1. Not everything is a conspiracy.

[wtmusic]

15. And an excellent question it is.

One that I'd like to hear asked on Capitol Hill, but I'm afraid it won't be for reasons which have nothing to do with making a profitable automobile.

[gravity]

18. Because the EV1 isn't a good car

Other auto companies like Toyota had electric cars, but they were too expensive, too small, and had limited range while taking hours to charge up. Toyota cancelled its program and decided to do the Prius instead.

The reason Chevy is coming up with the Volt is because it addresses all the limitations of an all electric car. By including a range extender in case you need to do a long trip and not have to get stuck for hours charging your car while watching gasoline vehicles at the station come in and out in minutes.

[midnight armadillo]

20. The EV1 had enough range for like 85% of people's driving

Why not just add a range extender in a trailer, then you don't need to lug it around and pay that weight and complexity penalty if you don't need to.

A 30 mile EV would suffice for almost all of my driving needs. For longer trips I could just rent.

All hell, who cares, come spring almost all of my weekly travel will be by bike.

[wtmusic]

22. Ask any owner of a Toyota RAV4 EV and they will tell you

they love it. Toyota's cancellation had nothing to do with marketability or customer satisfaction.

Does the Volt address the limitations of a gasoline car? Nope. Still needs oil, oil filter, gas, muffler, alternator, regulator, starter, fuel filter and injectors...and a new set of batteries every few years. Now THERE's a loser.

[madrchsod]

19. they have the volt ready for production

the ev1 was not the answer at that time nor today. if gm would have brought that car to market it would have been a disaster

[wtmusic]

21. The Volt is nowhere near production

At the LA Auto Show in November it was "hands off" -- no looking inside, no looking under the hood. No hard details about the batteries or charging system. They are either fumbling or stalling, or both.

The EV1 was never "the" answer, but it was "an" answer. What makes you think the EV1 would have been a disaster? Was Toyota's RAV4 EV also a disaster? Funny, if you ask any current owners they love it. And they still drive it, six years later.

[proud patriot]

25. one shameless kick

:kick: