Will Afghanistan be Obama's Tragic Folly?

[laststeamtrain]

Norman Solomon
Posted December 9, 2008 | 02:21 AM (EST)

Will Afghanistan be Obama's Tragic Folly?

Sunday morning, before dawn, I read in the New York Times that "the Pentagon is planning to add more than 20,000 troops to Afghanistan" within the next 18 months -- "raising American force levels to about 58,000" in that country. Then I scraped ice off a windshield and drove to the C-SPAN studios, where a picture window showed a serene daybreak over the Capitol dome.

While I was on C-SPAN's "Washington Journal" for a live interview, the program aired some rarely seen footage with the voices of two courageous politicians who challenged the warfare state.

So, on Sunday morning, viewers across the country saw Barbara Lee speaking on the House floor three days after 9/11 -- just before she became the only member of Congress to vote against the president's green-light resolution to begin the U.S. military attack on Afghanistan.

"However difficult this vote may be, some of us must urge the use of restraint," she said. The date was Sept. 14, 2001. Congresswoman Lee continued: "Our country is in a state of mourning. Some of us must say, Let's step back for a moment, let's just pause just for a minute, and think through the implications of our actions today so that this does not spiral out of control."

And she said: "As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore."

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/norman-solomon/will-afghanistan-be-obama_b_149501.html

[Mari333]

1. ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyfZu4V-KY0

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. "As we act, let us not become the evil that we deplore." Warning graphic images.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vbmCRImZR4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SeetAGy3KI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3Awmgw4Abg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=co8euyiAeYY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N91xjlIQRE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLBsh1Fj8VM

[Mari333]

3. everyone should see this. thank you for posting. n/t

[BeFree]

4. Could happen

Seems like the good fellow has been brainwashed into thinking there is a future for Americans in Afghanistan. We know better. The Russians know better.

Afghanistan is known as the place where empires go to die.

[JCMach1]

5. No empire has help on to it for long...

Not even Alexander the Great could do it...

[shadowknows69]

6. The Taliban have our supply lines firmly in their sights

They took out 160 military vehicles being sent to bolster our troops. I call bullshit the "official statement" that it didn't represent a significant loss. 160 vehicles? That's a rout. A disaster. A catastrophe. If we lose the supply lines we lose the war.

[BeFree]

9. Oh

We're gonna lose the 'war'. It's just a matter of time. And dead soldiers. And dead civilians. And wasted fortunes.

And for what do we waste all that? I've yet to hear one reasonable explanation for doing this 'war'. Fine, people need to be liberated, but right here in our country people need liberation. If it is humanity that concerns us, we should bring anyone who wants to be free to our country. Cheaper and more humane than killing. Just pull everyone who wants peace out, and leave the bad guys to kill themselves.

[shadowknows69]

12. I originally agreed with going after Bin Laden and the Taliban in concept.

But I thought, given the lessons of Vietnam and the one good decision Bush I made by NOT escalating Desert Storm to an occupation, that it would be done the way it should. As a criminal case with your targets being the main ringleaders, not the entire country surrounding them.

I thought maybe we had become smart enough to realize that terrorism, as it always has been, should be the realm of agencies like the FBI. Find out who the right people to go after are, exactly where they are, make sure your case is air tight and THEN send in the military, or better yet small special forces teams, to go get the fuckers.

You don't bring a fraction of your army and a lot of your air force and bomb the place even closer to the stone age than it already is and piss off a populace that has no fear and has nothing to lose.

[BeFree]

18. Exactly

"You don't bring a fraction of your army and a lot of your air force and bomb the place even closer to the stone age than it already is and piss off a populace that has no fear and has nothing to lose.

I didn't think we should have ever invaded. A quick get in and get out, as a last resort, maybe.

But to send a miniscuale(sp?) amount of force into a country that eats miniscuale forces is just plain idiotic.... or diabolical if you are a president that is hiding something.

And those people over there are now our enemies. We made enemies of them. We are totally in the wrong and if Obama doesn't see that, well, death and destruction will continue with no end in sight.

[tekisui]

10. Actually, 260.

It's a campaign to choke NATO/US out. The militants believe they can have us out by the end of 2009, by keeping the supply lines cut off.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4609360&mesg_id=4609360

[shadowknows69]

14. That's all it takes

It's how they waited out the Russians I'm sure. Our stinger missles helped but it was the will of a vastly outnumbered and outgunned opponent that beat Moscow, not any weapons system.

[Sinistrous]

7. Well, given the rousing success of the Russians and

the British before them ...

[GliderGuider]

8. Yeah, but you guys are Americans, right?

You're exceptional!

[Sinistrous]

13. I have never had much hope for a positive outcome of the

adventure in Afghanistan.

[tekisui]

11. It is the one real point of concern I have

with Obama's policies. It will not end until we leave. And, soldiers will die until then. It is unwinnable at best. It is the 21st Century Vietnam, most likely. Worst case.....shudder.

[shadowknows69]

15. Not that I'd normally advocate the same kind of deception Bush is likely to do

But perhaps President Obama's best first move on Afghanistan would be to produce a corpse, call it Bin Laden then declare victory and come home.

[tekisui]

16. Yes. Call it done. Declare bi Laden dead or irrelevant and end it.

[HEyHEY]

17. We don't need to colonize Afghanistan... get in establish some order, get out

And get as many terrorist organizers as you can.

[Occam Bandage]

19. No. It will be a mild success. nt

[Mari333]

20. its already a tragic folly. staying there will only make it more so n/t

[Greyhound]

21. Two options; he either he withdraws, very unlikely and carries a whole

freight-car of negatives with it, or he realizes that what is needed is not more destruction, but construction. That is how Bin Laden became popular in the first place. We gave weapons to the psychos that were the enemy of our enemy and left. Bin Laden stayed and built very little, but far more than us or the Russians. Afghanistan cannot be taken with military force, period.

A significant military presence will be required to be sure, but not in conquering mode, rather as protectors of an army of native builders. Give them the jobs and means to rebuild and improve their country and they will gladly get rid of the Taliban.

[Mari333]

22. we need our tax money to go to creating jobs here

not nation building somewhere else where they dont even want us to be.

[SammyWinstonJack]

23. !!!

:thumbsup: x3

[Greyhound]

24. We've already invested in nation destroying, so we have a responsibility

to fix it. Failure to do this will, absolutely without question, result in more problems, more death, more terrorism, more torture, more heroin production, etc.

It is far cheaper to help them see us as better than the previous invaders that have plagued that part of the world for centuries. The Roman Empire lasted a thousand years, primarily because the people that lived in the conquered nation's lives were better under Roman Rule than they were under the deposed despot.

Do you imagine that they like rule under the Taliban or the oil/energy companies, that they chose to live in hovels with no roads, no power or running water, no schools, no hospitals, no hope?

Whoever goes in and makes their lives better will win.