If you bring up Bank of America, you're a sucker.

[Occam Bandage]

This investigation--which is being led by Patrick Fitzgerald (you know, the fearless crusader who took down Scooter Libby and exposed Bush's corruption)--has been going on for three years. Blagojevich knew he was right fucked, and he knew he was about to be arrested; he's got toadies in every office building in the state.

So, on the eve of his judgement day, he went out and tried to play the populist card. His support of workers was not only almost entirely unprecedented in his miserable career, it was done purely to make people think that he was a Fighter For The People being taken down by the Evil Corrupt Attorneys. Gov. Ryan (R-Prison) did the same "look at how virtuous I am" thing before he got hauled away and thrown in the clink.

If you believe, even for a second, that Blago was arrested in any tiny, insignificant part because of what he did regarding Bank of America, you are an absolute sucker happy to fall for what one of the most corrupt politicians in America is selling you.

[Atman]

1. He could easily afford to say "FU" to Bank of America...

He knew that where he was going, his only "banking" transactions would be in cigarettes.

.

[tritsofme]

2. Thank you.

You are 100% right.

[Occam Bandage]

3. Kick to keep this up near the top.

[Bluzmann57]

4. Blago is as dirty as they come

And as you pointed out, he has been under investigation for many years. His campaign fundraising has been, questionable, to be generous, and now this. Screw him, off to jail with him. Maybe him and Ryan can compare notes and maybe the good people of Illinois can finally get an honest Governor.
edited so that the spelling nazi's won't jump up my ass.

[Alter Ego]

5. Boy, you folks in Illinois REALLY don't like Blagojevich.

I've heard he's awful, but I guess since I don't live there I can't fully appreciate his suckitude.

[Occam Bandage]

8. There is nothing good about him. Nothing.

He happy to sell out to the right wing on any issue, especially taxes. If anything, he's made the worst-in-the-nation public school inequity worse in his time in office.

He is utterly incompetent at his job. In his recent involvement with the transit package, he waited until the legislature had finally hacked together a fragile compromise bill, and then demanded that seniors get free rides, nearly destroying the entire bill right before it was passed. The cost, of course, went entirely to the city of Chicago.

He is a selfish scumbag. Even in the middle of yearly budget crises and transit fare raises, the douchebag still refused to live in Springfield, preferring instead to take a private plane from and back to Chicago every goddamn day so he didn't have to live in Springfield. Oh, and so his daughters could go to a good wealthy-part-of-Chicago schools instead of a crappy anywhere-else-in-the-state school. Heaven forbid he actually work on fixing that. Better to jet-commute at taxpayer expense.

He is corrupt as hell. I find it hard to keep track of all the things he's done. If you throw a rock into a window in downtown Chicago, it's pretty likely that you'll hit someone who has traded favors with someone in the Governor's office.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

10. Well said. Frankly I don't even like thinking about him being a fellow Cubs fan.

[Mike Daniels]

19. Isn't this what Palin was catching hell for as well?

"Even in the middle of yearly budget crises and transit fare raises, the douchebag still refused to live in Springfield, preferring instead to take a private plane from and back to Chicago every goddamn day so he didn't have to live in Springfield. .....Better to jet-commute at taxpayer expense.

.......


Sometimes it seems that before people start attacking a pol from the opposite side for doing something hinky they better make sure that their side isn't engaged in it as well or at least be prepared to condemn both sides of the aisle.

[Occam Bandage]

22. The minute you cast a ballot in Chicagoland, you either:

1. Agree to criticize state Dems for ethics abuses more than you criticize state Republicans.
2. Agree to be a total flaming hypocrite.

Not that Dems are worse, mind you; they've just got most of the power and so do most of the evil shit. Chicago politics is ridiculous in a way that nobody who has not lived in Chicago can quite understand.

[robinlynne]

23. great new word.

[Posteritatis]

41. I always get a kick out of the region-confirmation tests here

If someone's in Illinois, you can tell because they flare up at the mention of Blagojevich.

If someone's Canadian, you can tell because they flare up (well, explode) at the mention of Celucci. And so on.

... I think some sort of list of these things would be interesting. ;)

[live love laugh]

57. You assume these peoplea re all from IL? I don't. I am and while he

has been investigated (hounded is a better word) it was inevitable that something would turn up because he has been put under a microscope from the moment he stepped into the governor's mansion succeeding a real crook his republican predecessor. I maintain this is payback and while his predecessor's name is hardly known or mentioned, and while his predecessor actually took MONEY was was respoinsible for actions leading the deaths of people, you won't hear or remember his name. Yet, we are seeing on this board, a democratic board, that this democratic governor is the worst/most corrupt in history. Really? Most corrupt based on what standard?

[nemo137]

65. George Ryan. And he's been mentioned in just about every Blago thread

either as a "gee golly, those flatlanders sure know how to pick 'em" or a "see, Fitz isn't a Republican tool." And yeah, I think some of the vehemence coming from Illinoisan DU'ers is because Blago's a Dem and the second gov in a row to be fantastically corrupt, but the guy was a Grade A asshole, only competent by accident, and corrupt as all hell.

Edit: Sorry, I didn't realize I'd replied to you downthread. I'm not trying to hound you.

[Raskolnik]

6. Precisely correct.

As much as some people would like to believe that it is possible to assemble and file a complaint of this sort on less than 24 hours notice, it just isn't so.

[kid a]

7. i agree - k

[Occam Bandage]

9. kick.

[annabanana]

11. Thank you!. . .n/t

[Robbien]

12. Exactly. Very nicely put.

Too bad I can only recommend this OP just once.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madrchsod]

14. oh come on...you`re not part of the 13% that like him?

blago knew he was fucked during the rezko trial

[Occam Bandage]

15. Kick. I know people want to defend Dems, but this guy is beyond defense.

[live love laugh]

58. That is not true. Your statements are empty of facts. nt

[Radical Activist]

16. The self described "Reagan Democrat" spent his entire time in office

shitting on state workers and making himself the enemy of AFSCME. A lot of Illinois Democrats are cheering today.

[Occam Bandage]

17. Democrats nationwide should be cheering. Cancers need to be excised.

[Dreamer Tatum]

18. Kick the shit out of this one and rec to boot

[TheWraith]

20. Kicked and recommended.

As I said elsewhere yesterday, some people here act like not being a paranoid cynic is a capital offense.

[Dennis Donovan]

21. Recommended - as soon as today's charges were announced...

...I knew his appearance at Republic Windows yesterday was for one reason only - a last gasp attempt at redemption.

I trust Fitz. He was relentless during the Plame investigation, and, by all accounts, NON-partisan.

Blago is scum. I want him OUT of OUR party.:thumbsdown:

[Catherine Vincent]

24. That's another way to look at it.

That's probably correct. It's always been known that he was next.

[McCamy Taylor]

25. Being investigated by the Bush DOJ for 3 years makes you guilty? No, it makes you DEM.

There are corrupt politicians all over this country. Texas has so many of them you would think we were running a special---but does the DOJ come down here and investigate them? Yes, but only if they are Black and Democrats.

Dudes, biased Justice that attacks only minority politicians and politicians of the opposite party is not Justice. In times of economic hardship, everyone hates their elected representatives and thinks they should be in jail. The Bush DOJ exploits that in order to pillory the Dems. They are nothing but Mafia Enforcers.

[anigbrowl]

28. You'd have to be living under a rock not to know he was headed for the high jump all this year

Remember that Tony Rezko guy that some were hoping would bring down Obama? Remember how the actual case had nothing to do with Obama, but was really really bad for the governor? Quit fooling yourself, we have some corrupt people in the Democratic party too.

[Occam Bandage]

30. How about demanding bribes in exchange for appointments and hospital funding?

Does that make you guilty? Or "just a Dem?"

[Marrah_G]

34. If nothing else.......

......this situation has certainly increased the size of my ignore list. Those who think Dems should not be arrested, investigated or held accountable for their crimes are not part of my Dem Party.

I want the highest of standards for those who represent me.

[Occam Bandage]

38. We need to hold our party to the standard to which we demanded Republicans hold theirs.

If we don't, we'll end up the same way they did.

[Marrah_G]

66. Exactly.

Corruption and abuse needs to end no matter who is doing it.

[Dorian Gray]

76. Perfectly put....

we need high accountability here, and we should be even MORE offended at the corruption in our party.

[Usrename]

77. Is it the same standard?

It's hard to fathom that anyone would think this is the same standard.

[Garbo 2004]

35. Ryan, the previous Gov, was a Repub. Still serving time after conviction.

Fitzgerald was nominated by Repub Senator as US Attny to investigate state corruption. Bush Administration didn't want Fitz but the Senator preemptively publically announced and the WH backed down. Investigation took years but Ryan is now doing time.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/custom/newsroom/chi-060417ryantrial,0,4525779.story

[Ikonoklast]

52. Tell that to Illinois ex-Governor George Ryan, the Republican.

Here's his current address:

Federal Correctional Institution. P.O. Box 0500. Oxford, Wisconsin 53952.

[sohndrsmith]

55. Who Blagojevich only days ago said Bush should pardon on his way out...

... saying he'd served enough time already (he was sentenced to 6.5 years, but it didn't actually start until 2007).

Seems like the possibility of posturing to save one's less-than-reputable behind is the main thing on Gov. B's mind these days... I can only assume that he knew he was going to get caught - there is no other reason why he said he'd welcome anyone to wiretap him - what - yesterday? In front of the Republic Door Co. (which had nothing to do with that). So it looks like he exploited the situation for his own interests, that being his primary concern.

You think?

[Marrah_G]

26. I am astounded by the amount of tin foil this place goes through sometimes.

Blago is trash- I hope he gets put away for a LONG time.

[RoyGBiv]

27. Ding!

It's sometimes fun to watch the bizarre bandwagons people jump on. It tends to showcase those who will believe in any conspiracy theory, no matter how absurd, if it supports a preconceived notion.

But, in the long run, it's sad.

Good riddance to Blagojevich. Corrupt so-called Democrats are no better than Republicans.

[Exultant Democracy]

29. Either a sucker or a troll trying to make us all look like kooks.

[apocalypsehow]

33. Bingo. n/t.

[Occam Bandage]

36. I think we have plenty of kooks, unfortunately.

[Senator]

31. I'll Bring Up Bank of America.

Because I wouldn't be surprised if Fitzgerald ended up as General Counsel there by this time next year.

Because I don't think "Sand in my eyes" Fitzgerald's Kabuki Theater really was "fearless crusader{ing}" -- especially after they all chuckled their way past Scooter's modified-limited-hangout pardon.

Anyone think that the boycott was the first run-in with BofA? Hardly.

Seems Blago ally http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3637481">SEIU is targeting BofA for unionizing? And BofA underwrote Sam Zell's http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2004085477_tribune21.html">taking of Blago foe, now bankrupt, Tribune Co. private?

Anyone even know http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Di_Rita">who speaks for BofA?

After 3 years of spying and spending -- scant minutes before they're all put out on their ears by a new administration -- they trot out some 2-week old "discussions" about what "might" happen -- without support of grand jury indictment -- culminating in a completely unecessary 6AM media-frenzy arrest?

With all this fluff I'd guess Tony Resko is an even more unbelievable "accuser" than David Hale, Jim McDougal, or Nick Bailey.

And it's supposedly foolish to think this may be just as big a charade as the Libby lapdance was? That the neofascists might possibly try to trash a governor with D after his time on a bogus charge -- shocking, isn't it?

You got a beef with Blago, fine. But who's really the sucker here?

---

[Octafish]

43. Outstanding post.

Thank you, Senator!

[Radical Activist]

45. No. It's completely uninformed.

Sometimes there really is a corrupt Democrat. He needed to go.

Besides it wouldn't make any sense for BoA to remove Blagojevich. His replacement will be the Lt. Governor who's really the left wing populist that Blagojevich only pretended to be on TV. The last thing banks want is Governor Pat Quinn.

[Octafish]

46. I don't like crooked DEMs any more than crooked pukes. I also don't like crooked bankers.

The Senator brought up important facts regarding Mr. Fitzgerald and BoA.

BTW: How much money has Bank of America received from Wall Street's best friends forever?

Wall Street Urinal wrote about $25 billion a while back.

And they're using it to boost the economy, I'm sure.

The CIA: Banking on Intelligence

Anthony L. Kimery
Covert Action Information No. 46

"The CIA has collected, and the intelligence community has collected, economic intelligence of one kind or another since its inception. — Director of Central Intelligence, R. James Woolsey

The CIA has never been above breaking the law as it battles communists, nationalists, terrorists, or the latest “national security threat”: foreign-directed economic and financial subterfuge. This growing economic focus comes at the bidding of many voices in the CIA, Pentagon, and corporate community who believe the U.S.’s primary intelligence mission should be to help industry compete in the global marketplace. There has been little public discussion, however, over just when corporate competition becomes a sufficient threat to the national security to unleash the corruptible talents of the intelligence community into the world of international finance.


“New” Intelligence Requirements: Old Practices

That line between “national security” and private financial interests has long been mutable and subject to the day-to-day needs of the CIA. For decades, the U.S. has used currency manipulations, embargoes, and other forms of economic pressure to undermine its foes. When the 1945 Bretton Woods agreement established the U.S. dollar as the international currency of the World Bank and International Monetary Fund, the U.S. secured enormous international financial leverage. It can direct intense fiscal pressure against foreign financial institutions, and even an entire national economy, by activating the global power of the Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve (along with the international financial institutions it controls). Witness the long-standing embargo against Cuba, the economic sabotage of Nicaragua in the 1980s, the illegal withholding of Panama’s canal revenues between 1987 and 1990, and the current international sanctions against Iraq. Economic motives have always driven U.S. covert operations. And bending banking regulations to the benefit of U.S. and foreign elites has been standard practice. Thus, it should be no surprise that, despite questionable legality, both the National Security Agency (NSA) and the CIA already engage in extensive economic intelligence activities wherever U.S. national security interests are perceived to be at risk.

The practice of using existing U.S. intelligence agencies to gather economic and financial data through traditional spy methods was given a boost by the Reagan administration. Incoming CIA Director William Casey’s national security credentials were matched by his business background. Casey had been chair of the Securities and Exchange Commission, Undersecretary of State for economic affairs, and Import-Export Bank President. He ordered the Agency’s once modest National Collection Division (NCD) to recruit major corporate executives abroad to gather proprietary information on foreign businesses and the trade and economic policies of foreign governments. This move made the NCD the largest information gathering program within the Agency’s operations directorate. By 1984, more than 150 corporations were providing cover for CIA people overseas.

Also on Casey’s order, from 1982 through 1987, career CIA man Douglas P. Mulholland served at the Treasury Department as the chief liaison to the Agency. The person in this position typically ensures that, should some low-level regulator stumble across banking law violations, CIA operations involving banks and other federally regulated financial institutions are not compromised. No operations, it seems, were compromised on Mulholland’s watch. He retired from the CIA in 1987 to become a researcher for George Bush’s presidential campaign, and later headed the State Department’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research.


Treasury Joins the Inner Circle

While the Reagan and Bush administrations were able to maintain the CIA’s budget in the name of anticommunism, the post-Cold War CIA has had to be more diverse. It has switched its emphasis to counterterrorism and economic intelligence.

Bill Clinton wasted no time in elevating the “new” economic agenda to the highest level. For the first time, a treasury secretary, Lloyd Bentsen, became a member of the CIA’s daily White House briefing. Previously, the briefing was reserved only for the president, the vice president, the national security adviser, and the secretaries of state and defense. This move formalized a trend put in motion by Reagan and Bush, who had already brought the Department of the Treasury’s intelligence unit and the CIA closer together.

Reagan had created a new agency at Treasury, the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN), with liaisons to the NSA, CIA, and the Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA). FinCEN compiles and analyzes the computerized financial disclosure data that banks are required to report to regulators under the Bank Secrecy Act and related money laundering laws. Its capabilities are staggering. For instance, when federal agents wanted to analyze patterns of cash deposits in New York City as part of a drug investigation, FinCEN’s computers quickly isolated a single cash-rich neighborhood in Manhattan. Its current director, Brian M. Bruh, is a former deputy assistant commissioner of criminal investigations at the IRS and served as chief investigator for the Tower Commission, President Reagan’s official Iran-Contra probe. Under Bruh’s leadership, FinCEN is expanding its capabilities. Los Alamos National Laboratory, on contract to FinCEN, is developing “artificial intelligence” capable of isolating specific financial activity within the millions of filings it has on computer. Though technically a law enforcement tool, this new software could easily be used to spy on virtually anybody’s personal or business financial transfers.

CONTINUED...

http://covertaction.org/content/view/142/75 /

The above was from the Fall, 1993 issue of Covert Action Quarterly.

The axis of Wall Street and the Pentagon is where the action is. Just ask Prescott Bush's relations.

[Occam Bandage]

47. Bank of America caved today. They gave Republic Windows its money.

There goes another bullshit conspiracy theory.

[onenote]

48. well, i guess the conspiracy runs even deeper and is more complex than thought

we mere mortals could never understand it.


:sarcasm:

[Octafish]

78. Laugh all you want. And while you're at it, tell what happened to the $750 billion Wall Street got?

It's almost as if there were no accounting for it.

[bridgit]

53. Ding! BofA: 'U.S. politicians could be forgiven a raised eyebrow or two. Bank of America took $15...

'...billion under the U.S. Treasury's Troubled Asset Relief Program, known as TARP. Now its chief, Ken Lewis, is spending $7 billion of his spare cash upping the bank's stake in China Construction Bank, or CCB, to 19 percent. It might smack of TARP funds - borrowed by the United States from countries like China - going full circle back to the Middle Kingdom.'

http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/11/18/business/views19.php

[Octafish]

79. Guess who headed the U.S.-China Chamber of Commerce?

Prescott Bush Jr.

Remember, know-it-alls know that it's just a coincidence that millions of high-paying manufacturing jobs have disappeared to China over the past few decades.

[bridgit]

81. I knew you'd know...

:yourock:

[live love laugh]

59. Nail. On. Head. They tried to tie Obama and Blago to Rezko and couldn't.

Now this bullshit. It reeks IMHO.

[Divernan]

62. It was Rezko's info on Blago which convinced judge to authorize wiretap on Blago.

Read the indictment and quotes from all the Illinois politicos in the NYT & Washington Post articles.

[live love laugh]

63. Rezko a crook convinced a judge to wiretap? That makes sense. NOT nt

[Occam Bandage]

69. Yes, it makes no sense that an investigation into a criminal's network

might convince a judge to wiretap a member of that criminal's network.

[bridgit]

70. So we...shouldn't be listening to a thing Abramoff is saying either? NOT!

[apocalypsehow]

32. Kick & Rec.

:thumbsup:

[Occam Bandage]

37. kick.

[Usrename]

39. Ok, call me a sucker. What does this mean? I don't get it at all.

Is there some underlying CRIME here, because I don't see it.

...defendants did, conspire with each other and with others to devise and participate in a scheme to defraud the State of Illinois a the people of the State of Illinois of the honest services of ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH and JOHN HARRIS,...

PDF Warning: http://media.suntimes.com/images/cds/MP3/blagojevich_criminal_complaint2.pdf

What was the crime? I don't get it at all. Honestly. Gov Palin was never arrested, and several investigations concluded that she had committed real crimes. What specific CRIME did he commit?

That should be simple enough to figure out. Did he conspire to commit fraud?

Seriously, fraud?

The guy is completely transparent if you ask me. What is the fraud here?

Or this,

...corruptly solicited and demanded a thing of value, namely, the firing of certain Chicago
Tribune editorial members...

This is a joke, right? He can be arrested because told them they should ditch some people and hire some real fucking editors? Gimme a break.

[Radical Activist]

40. You should read the rest of it.

He tried to sell a US Senate seat to the highest bidder for personal profit.

The fact that not Durbin, Obama, nor any other Democrat in the entire state is standing up to defend Blagojevich should tell you something. They all know he's a crook and they've known it for a long time.

[Usrename]

71. What was the illegal act?

Did he say something that was illegal to say? Is that it?

[onenote]

49. its no joke to solicit a newspaper to fire editors in return for promises that

the government will give the paper millions of dollars in financial assistance.

Maybe you think there's nothing wrong with that. Fortunately, you're in the minority on that.

[Usrename]

72. Who was solicited?

I guess I'm just thick or something.

on edit>

What is the difference between congress suggesting that new leadership for the auto makers should be considered as part of the bailout deal in order to get taxpayer assistance?

Seriously, are those senators who suggested that the CEO's be replaced guilty of some crime? Should they all be arrested?

[live love laugh]

61. Exactly while Palin stole taxpayer money it was NEVER publicized. No money exchanged

hands with Blagojevich all they have is talk.

[Occam Bandage]

68. First of all, solicitation of bribes is a felony, payment or no. Secondly,

you have absolutely no reason to believe that no money exchanged hands. He's been engaging in pay-for-play for at least three years. Three. Years. Do you really think that in three years of demanding personal bribes for office appointments, not one person paid him?

[Usrename]

73. Yeah, it all sounds like a bunch of political talk.

It sort of reminds me of the Martha Stuart case all over again.

[Occam Bandage]

42. I apparently need to kick this.

[onenote]

50. actually, you need to kick a few posters who still don't get it

[StreetKnowledge]

44. Crooks Belong in Jail

And I don't give a damn whether they are Republican or Democrat. The hell with Blago, Rezko and the other crooks there.

[Jakes Progress]

51. Blago belongs in jail.

What gets hidden is that the culprits in the labor dispute and sit in are the former owners who had the money to pay the workers what the law requires. They took it, left town, and started up another window company in another state. They stole the workers' money and are getting away with it. BoA is caving because they know the public will only read the headlines and they want off the front page.

I'm the last one to defend a bank, but they are right that bailout money is not what was called for here. That settlement could come from the stolen money taken by the assholes that ran the company into the ground and then moved their asses (and assets) to another state. I like that the workers are getting their money, but BoA bailout money is just our money paying for the crooked owners theft. What they should do is get the money from that jack ass and give the company to the workers. They need jobs more than severance pay.

[nemo137]

54. I am a bit stunned at the people rushing to defend Blago

I can't think of a single damn thing he's done that would put him on some corporatist hit list. His administration has been an affront to every idea of good governance in the western world, and I hope he resigns, is impeached, or simply put on trial and we can move Illinois to a place where post-soviet dictatorships no longer snicker at our politics.

[live love laugh]

60. I am stunned by the rush to trash Blagojevich without any proof of why he is so bad.

What makes him the worst, most crooked governor other than being incessantly investigated for years until this new conviction turns up today. Three years and all they have is his Obama deal? What were the other three years investigations for then because Obama wasn't around then. They tried to tie him to another crook and failed and they tried tying Obama to that same crook and failed so now this?

Let the investigation proceed. Make up your minds but take everything into account. Look at the ties, who has the most to gain by this prosecution--and many have much to gain. Also look at the charges and their substance and compare that substance to other comparable charges for crooks. Until then, everything else is just empty allegations and smears.

[nemo137]

64. It's pretty well accepted that Blago was "Public Official A" in the Rezko case

The complaint against him also mentioned other shady deals, such as an attempt to extort money from the head of Children's Memorial and an attempt recently to get the Trib to sack an editor. There's also the matter of his purging of several state offices to fill them with political loyalists, his constant backstabbiness in Springfield and his complete failure to live up to his campaign promise to clean up Springfield. The other three years of investigations were about influence peddling (pay for play) and other nice little pieces of political corruption. The reason they rushed the charges was a concern that he'd either a.) appoint someone who'd pay him or b.) irrevocably taint the appointment process, and right now I think the citizens of Illinois have the most to gain if he's impeached or forced to resign.

Do you see any Illinois DU'ers defending this guy? His entire administration has been a shitshow, and the only thing most of us are surprised about is how blatant and creepy he was when he finally got caught. I'm all for a legal presumption of innocence, and I hope his lawyers put up a hell of a fight when his case comes to trial, but he is not some poor, maligned martyr of a vengeful Bushite prosecutor.

[Occam Bandage]

67. Actually, they have quite a bit more than the "Obama deal."

They've already taken down a number of people in the Governor's office, and they've got multiple counts on Blago. Seriously. Read the entire indictment. And if you can't be bothered, then ask why every single DUer who actually lives in IL hates him.

[Usrename]

75. I don't know of any DUers that like Gov Palin either.

And she hasn't been arrested. Just sayin.

[davidthegnome]

56. Sounds like scum to me

Good riddance.

[Tatiana]

74. I wish all these conspiracy theorists had to live in the Illinois governed by Blago.

Their opinions might be a little different then.

[Radical Activist]

83. No F-ing kidding.

[Chovexani]

80. It can't be said enough

And, as someone not from the state, I think it's telling that no one actually from the state of Illinois is actually buying that bill of goods. I'm far more inclined to listen to the people who would know best on this.

[Radical Activist]

82. This thread could use another kick.

My turn since some people still don't get it.