Straight male actors rebuke gay kissing scenes

[ccharles000]

Hank Stuever has a good article in the Washington Post today about reporters' love of questioning male actors on their same-sex on screen kisses and the homophobic responses to these queries.

In the relentless publicity interviews been doing for his new movie, "Milk," there's plenty to ask about his performance as the neglected lover of San Francisco Supervisor Harvey Milk, the gay rights martyr. So what does every interviewer -- from David Letterman to the Philippine Daily Inquirer to public radio's Terry Gross -- want to discuss most, over and over and over?
The kissing.

Wasn't it really difficult to kiss another man? Implied: Without throwing up, seeing as you're so obviously straight? What were you thinking as you kissed? Did you rehearse it? What was it liiiiiike?

Underlying the questions (and the answers) is this notion that a gay kissing scene must be the worst Hollywood job hazard that a male actor could face, including stunt work, extreme weather or sitting through five hours of special-effects makeup every day. We live comfortably, if strangely, in a pseudo-Sapphic era in which seemingly every college woman with a MySpace page has kissed another girl for the camera; but for men who kiss men, it's still the final frontier.

Judging from their interviews over the years, actors who have filmed scenes in which they have pointed a revolver at someone's head and pulled the trigger still think gay kissing is the grossest thing they've ever had to do for a movie.



Unfortunately this is not surprising. Just another example of how homophobia (particularly targeted at male queerness) is still running rampant. Even professional actors, who do a damn good job of presenting queer characters on screen feel the need to be extremely unprofessional in response to these questions. Take a look at Steuver's piece for some of the more heinous examples. Obviously the media fascination with asking this question only promotes this type of homophobia and posturing as well.

Also interesting is Stuever's explanation of how female actresses responses to these questions differ.


Women actors who've kissed other women in love scenes, meanwhile, sound like an enlightened other species in interviews about kissing. For them, it's no big whoop. The men, on the other hand, talk as if they've outdone themselves and are now ready to accept their golden statue.


http://www.feministing.com/archives/012603.html

[ColbertWatcher]

1. I actually caught one of the actors being asked that question by Letterman, and ...

... he basically gave a very actor answer.

Letterman persisted a few times and to the guy's credit, he dismissed it.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

56. Are you sure it wasn't Jay Leno?

I think he gave Ryan Phillipe a hard time about it once, to the point that everyone commented how unprofessional and unfunny (well, it IS Leno) Leno was.

[6000eliot]

87. James Franco actually gave Letterman a kiss.

Then so did Regis. I thought it was handled relatively well, and I would guess that Dave won;t make such a big deal of it next time.

[Lautremont]

2. I directed a movie with two straight actors playing gay characters and kissing.

This was back in 1994. It was no big deal at all to the actors or the crew. It was - and I'm sorry to use a technical term here - "acting."

[derby378]

3. Once upon a time...

A few years back, my future wife and I chauffered a male couple to a popular gay bar. At some point, in between watching the dancers and trying to find the bathroom, these two wound up in some sort of argument and walked away from each other. After a mad dash trying to find out what happened to them, we finally found them reconciling with each other. One of the pair wrapped his arms around me and thanked us both for at least trying to track them down and make sure everything was okay. He then kissed me on the neck and on the cheek in gratitude.

[Warpy]

4. Oh, please, that's why they call it ACTING

I can't believe it's any worse for a male actor to kiss another male actor than it is for an actress to kiss a toad who lives on cigars and raw garlic in straight films.

Get down from that cross, boys, Jesus needs the wood.

[LaRaven]

5. way too funny...

nearly snorted coffee out my nose on this response! i'm in total agreement!

[SoCalDem]

6. or as my son always said.. "Jesus, put the cross down..Weyerhauser needs the wood"

Guess who he worked for:)

[shadowknows69]

15. Warpy makes me lose my coffee all the time. Welcome to DU!!!

It's a risk you take reading here. :spray:

[lukasahero]

8. I expect that new monitor to be in the mail tomorrow

:spray:

That was hysterical - thanks for the laugh (and the line which I'm sure I'll have reason to use any day now. :) )

[Deja Q]

14. Hey, I do NOT smoke!

:rofl:

[annabanana]

39. heehee

good one

[terrya]

7. I can't believe someone would see a movie like "Milk"

And the ONLY thing they take away from it is two guys kissing.

Jesus. :eyes:

If two straight actors are professionals, and they're in a same-sex kissing scene, they shouldn't treat it as some horrible traumatic experience. It's acting.

[Bucky]

9. I saw a funny Dean Caine interview where he discussed a mankissing scene

He said before the scene they were doing the typical Hollywood bro-bonding routine, talking about their lines & weekend plans & such. Then right before the director starts the action, Dean Caine said he smacked the other actor on the shoulder and said, "Ya ready for this, dude?" Then, he said, the other guy slapped him back & said, "Yeah, bring it on." It was like he was talking about them cliff diving or doing some stunt. I thought it was pretty funny, seeing how he described them trying to treat it like just another day at the office.

It's a big taboo. I wouldn't denigrate them for overcoming a taboo they "shouldn't" feel. It's a big step, sociologically speaking. Twenty years ago it would have been a career threat to do scenes like this. Don't dismiss the small steps of pioneers.

[marshall]

90. I wonder if Will Smith would do a man kissing scene today?

Remember that he refused to do one for "Six Degrees of Separation"--I think they brought in a "stunt double" to do the kissing scene.

[brentspeak]

10. Stupid article

If an interviewer asks a non-gay actor what he thought about kissing a guy for the camera, and the actor then gives an honest answer that he didn't like it - that makes the actor "homophobic"? Where is it written the actor is obliged to "like it"?

[FLAprogressive]

11. "Women ... who've kissed other women in love scenes ...sound like an enlightened other species.."

It's because of society's attitudes towards gay men and lesbians. It is MUCH more socially accepted to be a lesbian than it is to be a gay man.

How many straight men do you know that get turned on by "lesbians" but think male homosexuality is "gross"/"wrong"/"immoral"? I know quite a few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_laws_of_the_world#Homosexuality_laws

Take a look at how quite a few nations only ban male homosexuality but not female homosexuality. In this country, and worldwide, it is simply more socially acceptable for two women to kiss/have sex than it is for two men.

It's totally wrong, of course, but that's the way it is. The bigotry shown towards gay men is appalling.

[Mari333]

16. heh. that always amused me.

every lesbian I have known, if a man confronted her and told her and her partner , that he was 'turned on' by them, would have had the guy singing a high C note in no time flat.
its a control issue for them. they think they 'own' women.
they dont.

[Kalyke]

86. It's about "them," doncha know. The man, that is.

The women are objects and the would-be approaching men absolutely don't think they would ever be turned down by the OBJECT of his desires.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

20. I think in the countries where male homosexuality is banned but not female

It's less a matter of finding female homosexuality more acceptable than it is of not even acknowledging its existence. If you live in a culture where women are not seen as autonomous beings with any kind of agency or desires of their own you can't even contemplate that a woman would fall outside of the heterosexual orientation. It just doesn't compute. Notice that there are no references to lesbianism in the Bible.

[FLAprogressive]

26. True. But based on my experiences lesbians are still much more "mainstream" at the moment

For example, I see much more normal lesbian couples portrayed on TV....most gay couples on television shows are based off of stereotypes.....

[DUlover2909]

30. My favorite gay couple on tv is from Sarah Silverman Program.

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMTI5NzY3MzUxOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNDU5NzY3MQ@@._V1._CR0,0,445,445_SS80_.jpg

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjExNjc3NDkwNF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTYwNzkzNzkz._V1._CR0,0,272,272_SS80_.jpg

[emilyg]

42. I know a few.

[elshiva]

58. Sarah Michelle Gellar kissing Selma Blair in "Cruel Intentions,"

consider that scene. Gellar and Blair were and are totally cool with it off screen. They got an award for the kiss, too.

[neebob]

12. I made out with another girl when I was 11-12ish ...

Do boys not do this, or do they just not admit it? Forgive me if this is a stupid question.

[Vincardog]

18. Straight guys do not do this. Women are so much more enlightened.

[OswegoAtheist]

25. No, but I was a loser.

I didn't make out with anyone, boy, girl or otherwise, until I turned 19. I did get kissed by another guy in tenth grade during play practice ("Bye Bye Birdie"; I played the Mayor). Interestingly, it was to prove the point that two guys could kiss each other with no problem.

Oswego "the only problem was he smoked" Atheist:(

[theboss]

76. I couldn't even begin to imagine the possibility of thinking of doing that.

A. I never had the desire.
B. I can't even begin to imagine the Hell my life would have been if I had the desire and anyone in my school found out about it.

[Prophet 451]

109. Straight boys don't do this

Seriously, it never happens.

Actually, because our society is so f'ing homophobic, straight boys often miss out on any real intimacy. You know that girlfriend you had who you told absolutely everything to? We don't have those. We don't hold hands with our friends (common in much of Africa and Asia), talk about our emotions or kiss our friends. It's only acceptable to hug them if you're falling down drunk or "meterosexual". Boys at that age are often violently homophobic (which screwed me up 'cos I'm bi) and anything which even hints of "teh ghey" is frowned upon.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[shadowknows69]

17. It is a cruel double standard.

But I think the fact that films like "Milk" are even being made is a great step forward, even if the hollywood press still acts like a bunch of snickering juviniles when it comes to sex. Our whole country actually. It never ceases to amaze me how the "land of the free" can be so backwards about human sexuality. The rest of "Western society" doesn't have half the hang-ups we seem to.

[gratuitous]

19. The "holy kiss" is an anabaptist tradition

Full on mouth kiss, and all members of the congregation trade the kiss. It ain't no thang.

[marmar]

21. During Brokeback Mountain, a guy was sitting in front of me, presumably with his girlfriend/wife....

.... and he literally started squirming and twisting in his seat during the tent sex scene.....
I just don't get it. I'm a guy and a breeder, but I just don't get what makes so many people of my ilk so uncomfortable with sex or kissing or intimacy scenes between two men. I've never seen gay men near a breakdown when there's a male-female sex scene.
But heterosexism is so beaten and conditioned into people's heads, I suppose it's almost a subconscious reaction.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

22. Maybe he was putting on the requisite show of disgust.

So that everyone in the vicinity knows that he's a Real Man(TM).

[terrya]

24. I remember seeing the movie "Making Love" in a theater.

And when Harry Hamlin's character kissed Michael Ontkean's character...the audience started laughing. Laughing. It was NOT a comedic scene.

I had realized I was gay years before. I was thrilled seeing a movie deal with homosexuality in a fairly honest way. And when I heard the laughter in that theater, I just cringed.

[Mari333]

31. people probably laughed out of fear

because when confronted with an image outside the realm of their understanding, they become fearful.
as more men kiss onscreen and in daily life, it will slowly sink in that its just a norm.
hugs

[NashVegas]

40. People Had Never Seen Anything Like That In a Mainstream Film Before

Making Love was an incredibly ground-breaking film. That there was a 20+ year gap between that movie and Brokeback says yards.

[Mari333]

41. I remember when I first saw The Childrens Hour with Audrey Hepburn

and Shirley McClaine. I was a kid, but I was amazed because I had never heard of such a thing.
Now, the movie is tame.

[MotorCityMan]

121. It was quite an experience, seeing "Making Love" in a theater

I came out in the early 80's, and had always been a big movie fan. I was so tired of seeing gays in movies either being perverts, an object of ridicule, the villian, or someone for our macho, totally straight "hero" to mock or humiliate. Then there was the movies like "Porky's" and it's many ripoffs with a group of teenage boys who want to get laid; the absolute worse thing in these movies was always to act like a "fag", or worse, to be gay.

I went to see "Making Love" opening day, as I wanted to see an honest movie about a gay relationship. When they got to the love scene, the theater nearly broke out in a riot. People screaming, running out, making wretching noises; it was unreal. I was shocked and all I could think was, "Did any one in here besides myself know what this movie was about?"

When I went to see "Kiss of the Spider Woman", same damn reaction.

Overall, I thought "Making Love" was kind of dull. But, it was an important one, and it was a brave one, considering the period it was made.

When I saw "Brokeback Mountain", I actually braced myself for another audience reaction, especially as the movie made very clear what was going on during the love scene. No reaction from the audience. I was impressed.

[Quantess]

27. I know a few enlightened, tolerant, liberal straight men who squirmed at Brokeback Mountain

They didn't say they hated the movie, but none of them seemed to like it as much as the straight females did.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

57. I didn't care for "The Bridges of Madison County" either.

Rustic love stories bore me.

[Bluebear]

43. He could have been squirming and twisting to conceal his, uh.... well...

you know. ;)

[marmar]

45. ........

:P

[NNN0LHI]

79. I find it uncomfortable to even watch two straight people trading spit in front of me

I think it is conditioning? I don't quite understand it myself.

Don

[dysfunctional press]

23. you'd think that supposedly being "actors" would make it easier for them...

but- everyone has some things that they just won't do for money, i guess...:shrug:

for instance- i doubt that meryl streep would felate a goat if a script called for it, no matter how good the role was.

[jhrobbins]

28. I would certainly kiss another man if I were paid for it-I do it now

everyday for nothing - well, not for nothing, but for free.:rofl:

[mike_c]

29. some might not agree, but I don't consider that homophobia....

I certainly don't consider it bigotry, either. I mean, homophobia is essentially an unreasoned fear of homesexuals, and bigotry is class based hatred or discrimination, or whatever-- I realize others' definitions of those terms will differ.

But my point is that for straight men, kissing another man is often uncomfortable or distasteful, at least in our culture where kissing is generally restricted to erotic encounters. Being uncomfortable with kissing another man isn't homophobia-- it's just an expression of one's heterosexual nature. I'm straight BECAUSE I like to kiss females and don't have similar pleasure reactions when I contemplate kissing males. That doesn't make me homophobic by any means-- it just makes me straight. Likewise, I wouldn't expect my gay and lesbian brothers and sisters to especially enjoy heterosexual encounters-- some do, I'm sure, but that's not the point. The ones who don't are just expressing their own sexuality.

Respecting another's sexuality is an entirely different, and independent, issue IMO.

[Greyhound]

35. You just described homophobia with your explanation of why it isn't homophobia.

Admitting what is, is the first step.

You are cool with gay people and that's good, but your writing illustrates your unease with them.

[mike_c]

37. perhaps, or maybe I didn't state my case clearly....

Yes, I'm certainly uncomfortable with engaging in homosexual sex myself. That's because I'm heterosexual-- that's what MAKES me heterosexual, or at least one component.

But my comments were directed to the part of the OP that discusses heterosexual male actors thinking it's yucky to kiss other male actors, not toward anyone's discomfort about watching the resulting drama. The later is probably homophobia more often than not, although I can think of a few situations when it's not (but they're not too healthy either, e.g. general prudishness about ANY display of sexual affection). I was trying to put myself into those actors' place and thinking that yes, I'd be uncomfortable doing that. Not because there's anything intrinsically wrong about it, but just because it isn't something that arouses ME or that I equate with sexual pleasure.

Probably digging my hole even deeper....

On edit-- let me say unequivocally that I'm completely in favor of as much kissing as possible, by as many people as possible!

[uppityperson]

48. Try it with the words switched...

But my point is that for gay men, kissing another woman is often uncomfortable or distasteful, at least in our culture where kissing is generally restricted to erotic encounters. Being uncomfortable with kissing another woman isn't heterophobia-- it's just an expression of one's homosexual nature. I'm gay BECAUSE I like to kiss males and don't have similar pleasure reactions when I contemplate kissing females. That doesn't make me heterophobic by any means-- it just makes me gay. Likewise, I wouldn't expect my straigh brothers and sisters to especially enjoy homosexual encounters-- some do, I'm sure, but that's not the point. The ones who don't are just expressing their own sexuality.
---------------------

I see it as having a culture where kissing is mostly restricted to erotic encounters, and a person may be uncomfortable kissing someone of the same/opposite sex depending on their orientation.

That said, actors should be able to act. Good actors, anyway.

[gollygee]

44. Not having a pleasurable reaction doens't mean having a negative overreaction

I'm not attracted to women, and there are also a slew of men I'm not attracted to. Why would kissing a woman be any different to me than kissing a man I'm not attracted to? And why would kissing a man be any different than kissing a woman you don't find attractive? If you're an actor, you presumably have to pretend to find people attractive whom you don't find attractive all the time. Why would that particular instance of having to pretend to be attracted to someone you aren't attracted to be different than any other?

[Quantess]

32. How do the gay male actors feel about kissing women?

[Mari333]

33. yes, how did Rock Hudson feel when he kissed Doris Day?

doesnt matter. he was ACTING.
these yahoos who have a problem with kissing other men as ACTORS arent really very good actors imo.
Laurence Olivier would tell them to 'get over it' and start ACTING.

[terrya]

36. As I recall, Laurence Olivier kissed Michael Caine in "Sleuth"

I agree. They're NOT themselves on the screen. They're portraying another character. And if they can't handle that, maybe they should find another line of work.

[hfojvt]

99. acting is acting though

When you act, you pretend to beat the crap out of somebody, you don't actually do it. You pretend to shoot somebody, you don't actually do it. Having to actually do something as part of your job is not the same thing as pretending to do it.

[elshiva]

55. Depends on the actor. The only one I can think of right now is John Barrowman.

Barrowman is gay man, civilly married to another man in real life. He has said that he loves kissing men or women and that Billie Piper (a female co-star) is a great kisser. :)

[JerseygirlCT]

92. Yup, good question. If they're serious about their craft, they're

fine with it - it's part of the job!

[uberllama42]

34. Actually, Terry Gross prefaced the question by saying

she thinks we're getting to the point where she's not expected to ask that question any more. James Franco didn't express any disgust at having to kiss Sean Penn, either. I can't speak to the other interviews, but if they're like the Fresh Air interview, this article is way off the mark.

[Guaranteed]

127. I agree- I heard the Franco interview and thought it was respectful and even playful.

Franco didn't seem to have any problems with the kissing scenes at all. He was nothing but professional.

[NashVegas]

38. I Think the Reporters Are Trying to Get Actors to Come Out Is All

The scoop is everything ...

[Behind the Aegis]

46. Just a random thought....

For all those who don't think this is an issue (non-gay men kissing men while acting), I wonder what your reaction would be if a white/black actor said it was "puke-inducing" to kiss a black/white person of the other sex? What about having to kiss someone who is overweight? Disabled? I once saw one actor, can't remember who now, I will think on it, who is straight and said it was a "chore" to kiss another man, but in an Entertainment Tonight piece (is that show sill on?) there he was letting his golden retriever lick all over his face and mouth. He had an issue kissing another man, but not an animal that licks its own dick and asshole?!

[IndianaJones]

47. that wouldn't be racist....its genetic. nt.

[uppityperson]

49. Part of acting is doing things you may not do in your mundane life.

Anyone who gets to "puke-inducing" has a more serious problem.

[Behind the Aegis]

65. Exactamundo.

I don't recall interviews where an actor who played a pedophile, rapist, murder, etc., was asked how it was to be in such a role. Those are far more "puke-inducing" than swapping spit with some dude.

[RedCappedBandit]

50. Is there something wrong with a straight man not wanting to kiss another man?

[IndianaJones]

52. would there be something wrong with not wanting to work with other races? nt.

[Sanctified]

63. Not sure how that comparison works.

One is kissing the other is working with, but in the end if you are an actor you should opt to not take the job if you don't want to do the job.

[JAbuchan08]

67. At the risk of opening a big can of worms

Homosexuality, and hetrosexuality are preferences. If homosexuality is not a choice for you, than heterosexuality is not a choice for me either. We are free to "prefer" what we are born to prefer and their is no bigotry in being squeamish about kissing another man or woman. Maybe the media should not emphasize it so much, but I don't blame actors for being honest about their preference. Now if one of them where to say something along the lines of "EEEEWWW it was gross! Yucky, Icky, Blaahh blahh." I would think it was childish, but if someone says something like "It wasn't a pleasant experience for me, but I did it because that is my job" I would respect them for being honest.

To me the racial element is different, because our sexuality is not determined along racial lines. Working with another race is not a "sexual preference" it is a personal preference, and if you refuse to work with someone of the same race that personal preference can be rightly regarded as bigotry. If you refuse to work with gay actors, that can also be considered to be bigotry, but if you don't take pleasure in kissing another man that cannot be called bigotry, because that pleasure is determined by your sexual orientation.

Saying that its bigoted not to take pleasure in a same gendered kiss is like saying its bigoted to be straight.

[IndianaJones]

68. there is no reference to sexual pleasure. it is a job. nt.

[JAbuchan08]

69. Well acting is a little different from your average job.

Actors are commonly asked about their motivation and approach to roles, how they inhabit a character different from themselves, so of course a straight actor is going to be asked about playing a gay character. I would agree that some interviewers are more or less artful with their questions and that the sensitivity in the response from the actors can be lacking.

but if you were to boil it down to "so, you played a gay character in the role, and one of the requirements of that role was to kiss another man, was that difficult for you?"
"Well I didn't enjoy it, but that's what the role required and so I did it" I don't see what is offensive about an exchange like that.

It's fair to take issue with the couching of David Letterman's questions, or Colin Ferrells answer to that same question, but I think at some level there is an argument that straight men shouldn't be bothered by kissing men. Yes it is part of the "job" but actors jobs are not all pleasant for them there are things that they do both physically and emotionally that are draining and even yes unpleasant. For a straight actor that might include kissing another man, and I personally am not going to condemn them for it.

Having said that, I understand the point of the article, and I think it is said that (some of) these guys and their interviewers seem to feel that they need to make a big show of rejecting homosexuality to preserve their masculinity, but again if stated in a matter-of-fact and respectful tone I don't think there is anything wrong with stating your preference or even your discomfort with kissing another man.

(Now that I've made this argument I kind of feel like I'm obligated to kiss a dude just to see what the pleasant:unpleasant ratio would actually be for me)

[BoneDaddy]

82. So don't take the job

if you cannot be authentic...but you are not a bigot because you feel uncomfortable acting contrary to your sexual orientation.

[BoneDaddy]

71. Working with and kissing are two different issues

If you are uncomfortable, you simply are. Doesn't make you evil and may indicate a place where people may need to explore on why one may feel a certain way, but the black and white stance and the moral superiority of people who demand that people think like them is twisted in it's own way.

[IndianaJones]

75. their work is acting. nt.

[BoneDaddy]

77. And?

Have you ever acted before? Some actors are able to take any role, others are not. Everyone is not comfortable with everything. Your demand is highly unreasonable.

[IndianaJones]

80. what demand? i'm simply stating that they are bigots. nt.

[BoneDaddy]

81. So someone who may feel uncomfortable

acting contrary to their particular sexual orientation means they are a bigot? That is the biggest bunch of bullshit I have ever heard.

I have heard, on more than one occasion, my friends, who are gay, say that kissing someone from the opposite sex would be foreign, alien, and very uncomfortable. I do not consider them bigoted. I would not consider someone who is heterosexual a bigot if they were uncomfortable with kissing someone of the same sex.

This pathologizing and judging people on this is total crap.

[dionysus]

83. so if you are straight and would be uncomfortable kissing someone of the same sex you're a bigot?

now i've heard it all...

:rofl:

[gollygee]

85. No, if you're straight and go on & on about how kissing someone of the same sex would make you puke

That sounds like a bigot who is afraid someone might dare to think he's gay.

[Alexander]

94. But according to IdiotJones, a same-sex kiss is like "working with other races".

Please explain to me how kissing someone of the same sex is supposed to be like working with people of other races.

[gollygee]

105. It seems to me it would be more like kissing someone of the opposite sex whom you find unattractive

and I don't understand why anyone would respond any more to someone of the same sex than they would to someone they find unattractive of the opposite sex.

[dionysus]

97. who did that in this thread?

:shrug:

[Alexander]

98. Nobody. IJ just needs to feel persecuted, he has a martyr complex.

[gollygee]

104. The subthreads were apparently deleted

thankfully.

[Bluebear]

107. You won't see it because it's deleted.

And that's unfortunate, because it would be nice to see how some people's mind's operate.

[Name removed]

84. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JerseygirlCT]

93. Yes, if he thinks he's an actor and expects to be taken seriously

as one. If the part calls for it, then deal.

[Alexander]

95. Just because he has to do it doesn't mean he has to like it.

And he is free to say what he wants about his own preferences.

Sheesh.

[RedCappedBandit]

118. You can *do* it while not *wanting* to

[JerseygirlCT]

126. Of course you can

But chances are, the press wouldn't be hounding you ad nauseaum about how much you didn't like kissing that leading lady with the bad breath, would they?

Wanting isn't really pertinent. There have been times I've liked the person I was kissing (on stage, that is) rather a lot. Still didn't matter - it wasn't *me* kissing the other person - it was my character. Any actor who lets that get forgotten has forgotten what they're doing.

Further, I'm pretty sure we all do plenty of things - maybe on a daily basis - at work that we don't really *want* to do. I don't spend a lot of time whining about checking the data entry or filing, you know?

[RedCappedBandit]

131. Aye,

This is what I'm saying, though. Simply not wanting to / enjoying kissing another member of the same sex doesn't make you a homophobe, like some in this thread have implied, imo. The media's obsession over it, on the other hand, is a different story.

[JerseygirlCT]

136. Agreed. nt

[RedCappedBandit]

119. You can *do* it while not *wanting* to

[donco6]

96. Actors have to do lots of things they wouldn't normally do.

Why is this different?

I'll tell you why: They are mortified at the thought of being perceived as gay. It can damage their career (due to national homophobia). So, they have to play the part well, then give a hundred interviews on why it was so "icky."

[McCamy Taylor]

51. Straight men and women might not want to kiss either but they have to. Call it acting.

[eShirl]

113. exactly

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

53. I'll kiss a guy for an acting career

Why not?

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluebear]

59. You get a whole subthread removed & you insist on posting the same sentiment?

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

60. its genetics. nt.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

61. Why Is That Homophobia?

It would be homophobia if they were repulsed by others doing it. It's not homophobia if someone of a specific sexual orientation is disgusted by the act of engaging in a romantic situation with someone of the same specific sexual orientation.

This is factual and there's not a reason in the DU rules or even outside of DU as to why voicing this opinion is worthy of deletion. It is not appropriate to call people homophobes who aren't engaging in acts of homophobia; and issuing an opinion rooted in fact that counters such a claim should be perfectly acceptable here.

[Behind the Aegis]

66. It is very simple.

"Why Is That Homophobia?

Because actors are expected to understand their roles prior to accepting said roles. However, they have made it seem as if they were forced to walk across hot coals or something as "painful."

"It would be homophobia if they were repulsed by others doing it." But, they are the "other." This is a 'gig' for them. This is not a directive to kiss all men they come across. I am as queer as a $3 bill, but I don't find it "repulsive" to kiss women, even if it was called for in a role. The only thing that would be "repulsive" would be horrific bad breath or, for me, knowing I was kissing a bigoted POS. But that has nothing to do with genetics and everything to do with "conditioning" and smell.

"It's not homophobia if someone of a specific sexual orientation is disgusted by the act of engaging in a romantic situation with someone of the same specific sexual orientation."

What a load of SHIT! We aren't talking about an 'everyday situation,' we are talking about a job. If one is so opposed to that situation, then don't do it! Show everyone you are so insecure with your own sexuality, you have to declare it "repulsive." Oh, you may not care if others do it, but it "just isn't for you," that is called "tolerance." Tolerance is one of the reasons, IMO, why gay EQUAL rights are still out of reach.

Since the idea of kissing a man romantically is repulsive in an acting situation, I have to ask, do you feel is it as repulsive as being cast as a child molester, rapist, murderer, or bigot?

[BoneDaddy]

72. Wow being so morally superior must be rough

how do you put up with people so fundamentally flawed.

[BostonMa]

73. wow what does that even mean?

[BoneDaddy]

78. It means

that people are complex beings who are not perfect. We all have prejudices and those who are unaware of them are in serious denial or believe they are morally superior. Being "uncomfortable" kissing a man does not mean you are homophobic or evil. It simply is. Saying they are actors and "should" over come that is unreasonable.

I cannot stand this moral superiority of people who believe everyone should be like them. People who demand that you accept them in their entirity, yet have a problem accepting others the way they are.

[Behind the Aegis]

89. It isn't moral superiority.

But if you are "afraid" of two men kissing or having to kiss a man in a role, then indeed the issue is yours.

[Bluebear]

108. Or to say that kissing a male would literally make you "puke"

[Behind the Aegis]

112. Well, to be fair, there are a few men that would make me puke were to kiss them...

...Bush for example! :)

But this....this HOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT

[Guaranteed]

128. Alright, let's pretend I'm Terry Gross.

"So, Aegis, thanks for coming on the program."

"Now, in your new movie there is a birthing scene with your character's wife."

"This might be an odd question, but what do you think of vaginas? Obviously, you've were exposed to them on some level during the filming of this movie. Heck, you were exposed to them when you were born."



Don't be sexist in your answer!

[Behind the Aegis]

132. Are you serious?

This has to be one of the most absurd responses I have ever seen. First, a "birthing scene," would be just that "a scene." I doubt the actress would have to expose her vagina as chances are she really wouldn't be pregnant, nor giving birth on a movie set. Second, if I took a role that required me to view a vagina, I wouldn't have an issue with it because I don't find them disgusting and they don't make me "want to puke." Finally, I just have to ask, how is it you came to comparing two men kissing to a gay man viewing a vagina? You didn't want me to be sexist, will you be able to do the same?

[uppityperson]

70. If you can't do the job, don't take the job. For anyone who thinks it worse to kiss than kill someon

I feel sorry for you. That is the comparison in the OP.

"Judging from their interviews over the years, actors who have filmed scenes in which they have pointed a revolver at someone's head and pulled the trigger still think gay kissing is the grossest thing they've ever had to do for a movie."

Killing someone is less gross than kissing them. Wild. And yes, I know that they are acting when they shoot someone in the head, but they are acting them they kiss them also.

And remember, this is their job. They took the job, they should just do it.

[DerekG]

116. Why is this such an outrageous claim?

I'm no actor, but I'd say pointing a fake gun at an actor is a lot easier than giving another man an open-mouth kiss.

[uppityperson]

120. Acting a kiss is harder than acting a killing?

Well, it takes all kinds of us to make the world go round. I'd rather do a kiss than a killing, knowing they both were just acting.

[DerekG]

125. Of course it's harder

Clicking a trigger on a fake gun vs. planting my moist lips on another man's moist lips.

Sorry, but I'd go with the gun.

[Behind the Aegis]

133. What about rape?

[DerekG]

138. I couldn't do a rape scene

I guess I'm not actor material.

[dionysus]

102. jesus christ i actually agree with you on something!!!

:rofl:

[Alexander]

103. Thank you. Unfortunately the demagogues here just have to be angry about something.

[Starry Messenger]

62. Shorter Wapo:

Letterman can be kind of a dick sometimes.

I liked this quote:

"This kind of thing goes on any time there's a movie where two men kiss; and whether it's a gay audience or a mainstream audience, it's something everyone wants to know about. It's titillating," says Corey Scholibo, entertainment editor for the Advocate magazine.

"At a certain point, the joking about it . . . just isn't funny anymore," he says. "And it's disappointing for gay people. It's especially not as funny as it might have been a month ago, before Proposition 8 was passed," amending California's constitution to forbid gay marriage.

"No one ever asks Neil Patrick Harris what it's like to play a straight guy who sleeps with lots of women" on the sitcom "How I Met Your Mother," Scholibo says. "No one ever asks him how 'gross' it is to kiss a woman."

Hopefully in the future enough movies will feature men kissing men that this will seem like a dull question to the media. It will simply reflect real life and no longer seem like a novelty. Fingers crossed, anyway.

[Nikki Stone1]

64. Straight males....

what's so threatening to them?

[dionysus]

100. what is your beef about straight males?

yesterday you basically claimed that only straight males are capable of violence...

is this your new complex, to attack straight males?

:eyes:

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[leftchick]

74. I read Viviene Leigh HATED Kissing Clark Gable!

She said he had just horrible breath. Yet you would never no it watching the film. It is acting, and with that comes a lot of tolerance for lots of personal issues for both genders.


To their credit I remember Heath Ledger and Jake Gillenhall(?) giving great interviews regarding this issue and blowing it off as nothing but acting.

[MotorCityMan]

122. A more recent example is "An Officer and a Gentleman"

I read that Debra Winger HATED Richard Gere and that their love scene with him was incredibly difficult for her to do.

I've always thought she was a hell of an actress, because none of that shows in her performance.

[hatrack]

88. Uh, guys . . . that's why they call it "acting".

:eyes:

[JerseygirlCT]

91. You're right - it's silly

When I was acting, I had to kiss an actor or two I really couldn't stand. Certainly no attraction there - despite my being straight and him being male. You do what the part demands and no biggie.

Why would it be any different with another actor to whom you're not attracted? Whether not attracted b/c they're not a person you much care for (in my example) or not attracted b/c you're straight - where's the difference? You do what your part asks and it would be a pretty uncommitted actor who would find that such a big deal.

[gollygee]

106. Exactly !

Actors have to kiss actors of the opposite sex whom they find unattractive all the time. Why would anyone respond more to this than that? Why does the specific reason for the lack of attraction matter?

[Prophet 451]

110. It's a dumb double standard

Denise Richards and Neve Campbell had a very steamy sex scene in Wild Things and their reaction was pretty much "Meh, it's the job". Clea Duvall is openly gay and has been known to get very pissed when writers avoid giving her hetero romance plots for that reason.

Two guys snog on screen and the frickin' world's ending. Hey guys, it's called acting, faking emotions that you might not feel. Snogging someone you don't find attractive goes with the turf.

[mudesi]

111. I don't think that's homophobic

And comparing it to two women isn't valid either. Men and women are different.

[Bluebear]

114. Of course you don't. Incidentally, why would 2 women be different, because that's "hot" to you?

[IndianaJones]

117. don't these threads reinforce your faith in mankind? nt.

[Bluebear]

123. It's stunning. Stunning. nt

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

124. Such homophobic, sexist insight

Your mommy must be proud.

[Bluebear]

130. It takes a heap o' smarts to manage to be both homophobic AND sexist

[Guaranteed]

129. No, I have to disagree. Clearly, men and women are not different. nt

[MrScorpio]

115. So this is a surprise that straight men don't like kissing each other?

Ok, they're supposed to be pros, so the bitching about it is pretty wack.

But let's face it, the interviewers only question the actors about it for one thing, publicity and that equals BUCKS!

I do take issue with one thing though, comparing straight women with each other versus straight men.

It turns out that women are less likely to regard gender in intimacy than are men. It's not saying that women are more likely to be lesbians, rather than saying that some same sex behavior for women will not necessarily mean a lesbian dynamic. I.e., girls who kiss each other may or may not be in fact lesbians.

Men, on the other hand, are more like to regard gender. It's not necessarily homophobia, for straight men as an example, as it is actions that run counter to preference. So guys who kiss each other are more than likely to be in fact gay.

Frankly, any straight man who's comfortable in his own sexuality won't care what gay men do. Hence, the meme that the biggest homophobes are closeted gays.

Now myself, as a straight guy, do I care if guys kiss in a movie scene? I don't care... It's a movie. But I feel if the male actors have issues with kissing other guys in movie scenes, I think that they should find other movies to act in.

So the way I see it, if one finds gay bashing in the remarks and such, one should wonder if those writing those comments are in fact comfortable in their own sexuality.

[Behind the Aegis]

134. With all due respect, I have to disagree with some of your remarks.

I have read many of your posts and enjoy them, but this one, I just do not find myself in agreement.

"So this is a surprise that straight men don't like kissing each other?" Why? Answer that question honestly and there will be your answer, in part.

"Ok, they're supposed to be pros, so the bitching about it is pretty wack." I agree with you. Don't like the job, don't take it.

"But let's face it, the interviewers only question the actors about it for one thing, publicity and that equals BUCKS!" Possibly, but I also think it is because homophobia is so ingrained in our culture, but getting an actor to illicit the "kissing men is yucky" response reinforces societal 'norms.'


" do take issue with one thing though, comparing straight women with each other versus straight men.

It turns out that women are less likely to regard gender in intimacy than are men. It's not saying that women are more likely to be lesbians, rather than saying that some same sex behavior for women will not necessarily mean a lesbian dynamic. I.e., girls who kiss each other may or may not be in fact lesbians." This is simply conditioning. I think there may be a genetic component in that women care for both male and female children, so it is important to form bonds with both sexes. However, that is my opinion. I also think, again IMHO, because women are still seen as "objects" in some respects that their "dalliances" are dismissed as "cute" or "sexy."

"Men, on the other hand, are more like to regard gender. It's not necessarily homophobia, for straight men as an example, as it is actions that run counter to preference. So guys who kiss each other are more than likely to be in fact gay." I disagree. It is homophobia because they have been conditioned not to find intimate contact with other men to be acceptable, kissing only being one way. It has nothing to do with sexual "preference." It doesn't mean just because a straight man doesn't want to kiss another man that he is a homophobe, but there may be issues there.

"Frankly, any straight man who's comfortable in his own sexuality won't care what gay men do. Hence, the meme that the biggest homophobes are closeted gays." Again, I have to disagree. The biggest homophobes are just that...homophobes. While some may be struggling with unresolved issues, most are just bigots. It is no different than racists. Most do not have a secret desire to be of another ethnic background, or sexists, don't have a desire to be women, they feel threatened by "difference" and mock and ridicule what is not what they consider desirable and the "norm."

Homophobia is more than 'fag-bashing,' as I am sure you know racism is more than hurling racial slurs. Just because some man doesn't want to kiss another man, this doesn't make him a homophobe, but when someone says the idea of kissing someone of the same sex makes this want to puke, there is a deeper issue.

[MrScorpio]

135. There's a fine line here...

At which point would a straight man go from being straight to being homophobic?

As a straight man myself, I have no desire whatsoever to kiss other men. I don't even like the prospect in the least. But has far as other men who do, more power to them.

Technically, does this make me a homophobe, or just straight?

So, I can identify with an actor who says that he doesn't like kissing other guys. I can't truly classify that statement as homophobic, because the statement is about the man's own personal behavior and not about homosexual men, per se.

As stated before, it's about doing it for a gig. It's about being a professional instead of being half-assed.

As an analogy, take smoking. Let's say the actor is a non smoker, but he has to smoke for a gig. He doesn't like it and smoking makes him puke. It's counter to his own personal behavior and preferences and makes no statement about people who do smoke in the general public. Would such a statement be construed that the actor is bigoted against people who do smoke? Of course not.

You do concede that not wanting to kiss men does not make the person a homophobe, but I'm saying that being uncomfortable with doing it himself shouldn't make him one either.

The interviewer should be at total fault here. That person is supposed to be a professional. To frame the questions the way he did was nothing short of sensationalism. And I go back to conflict and publicity as being the motive for such questions, and that's done to sell product. He knew exactly what the outcome would be.

I don't think it's any stretch of the imagination that some writer used homophobia as a publicity tool.

One other thing, when talking about "straight" women who interact other women, I think it's important to differentiate those who do it as a way to "entertain" and titillate onlookers... Like porn stars and young drunken women, from women who are just doing it just for their own benefit.

Some so-call straight women have been known to be intimate with other women without the purposes of objectification. All cases can't be classified as such.

Can we stipulate that more percentages of straight women are more likely to engage in same sex behavior than are straight men? I don't think it's an accident.

On the other hand, Jenna Jameson, who has sampled more pussy than I will in three lifetimes says that she's "straight" on her own Myspace page.

If she's to be taken at her word, she obliviously engaged in "lipstick lesbianism" for a paycheck. Most actual lesbians can tell the difference in a heartbeat. Plus, it's no secret that some men who have sex with other men in gay porn declare themselves as straight as well. Some are married and have no gay sex in their private lives.

IMHO, the objectification goes both ways.

However, it should be noted that these "straight" guys in gay movies are pros, and no one makes a big deal out of it.

Edit: A nice read:

[Behind the Aegis]

137. Seems to be a bit of confusion.

"At which point would a straight man go from being straight to being homophobic?"

These things aren't mutually exclusive. It would have been more appropriate to say when does he go from "being uncomfortable to being homophobic." His sexual orientation is not reliant on his being homophobic or not. It isn't as 'fine' a line as most would like it to be. Being uncomfortable with something doesn't always mean the individual is going to rebuke whatever it is making him/her uncomfortable. However, when that discomfort is taken to the level of disgust and repulsion, there is an issue. "Phobias" are not just "fear of" something in the sociological terms. Many people mistakenly confuse the psychological terms and the sociological terms. Homophobes are rarely "run from the room screaming" afraid of gays and lesbians. Their issues stem more from feelings of disgust, distastes, repulsion, and dislike of gay folk. Some of that "fear" also stems from being afraid of being labeled gay, which is what we are seeing in this article and that ties into another whole level of concerns and issues.

Your smoking analogy falls flat. Smoking is something that can cause a non-smoker to become physically ill for physical reasons. I have never seen any reliable study indicating kissing another individual could have the same response, therefore, I conclude any such reaction would be on a psychosocial level due to conditioning and not any real threat to the body. Use this analogy: The white actor says he doesn't like kissing black actresses. He would prefer the actress to be white. Racist? Possibly, certainly suspect, IMHO. Now, the same actor qualifies his dislike with something along the lines of the very thought of having to kiss a black actress makes him ill on some level. Racist? I certainly would think so. In the case of the male actor kissing another man is not about his dislike of gay people, but rather the thought of himself being labeled gay. Again, homophobia is not limited to just "hating fags and dykes."

"You do concede that not wanting to kiss men does not make the person a homophobe, but I'm saying that being uncomfortable with doing it himself shouldn't make him one either."

It may or may not mean he his homophobic on some level. See my statements above.

"The interviewer should be at total fault here."

I partially agree. I think s/he has the greatest culpability in the spread of homophobia, in this case. But, if actors are reinforcing the "ick" factor, they too carry a level of responsibility. "Hey, it ain't my cup o' tea, but it really wasn't a big deal." Something along those lines would indicate the actor doesn't prefer macking on dudes, but, in reality, it wasn't "earth-shattering" to have to do it. Are you seeing a difference yet?

I also think you are confused on the issues of "labels." A single act or a few random ones does not a sexual orientation make. When you use terms like "so-called straight" or use straight in quotes, the indication is you think they are really not such. I have kissed more than one woman, and short of dropping dead anytime soon (G-d forbid), I am likely to do it several more times. It doesn't change the fact I am as queer as a $3! Strictly dickly! The same goes for women who aren't so bound by societal dictates they feel freer than men to explore their sexual "feelings" without worrying about being labeled lesbians or even bisexual (also a legitimate sexual orientation).

"As a straight man myself, I have no desire whatsoever to kiss other men. I don't even like the prospect in the least. But has far as other men who do, more power to them.

Technically, does this make me a homophobe, or just straight?"

Again, one can be straight and a homophobe. Also, one can have homophobic feelings without being an overall homophobe. Some homophobia, as I stated earlier, is not about acting out against others, but against one's own perceptions about sexual orientation. It is ok not to have the desire to kiss other men, be they gay or straight or somewhere in between, but ask yourself, why don't you "even like the prospect in the least?" Does the idea of kissing another man make you feel dread, disgust, fear? I don't have the desire to kiss women, but I don't find myself in the position of worrying about such an occurrence. Another part of homophobia is a "fear" of intimacy, not sex, with someone of the same sex and this part of the equation is often tied closely with issues relating to women and perceived gender/sex roles in society.

[MrScorpio]

139. Men, in general, normally don't have sex outside of their orientation

There were studies taken on this. One indication that there was only a 0.3% chance that a (I'm assuming heterosexual) male would engage in same sex behavior, versus 8% of women.

http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/118597263/abstract#relatedArticles

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/the-more-they-like-sex-the-more-women-like-women-466349.html

With numbers like this, I think it's unreasonable to expect men of one orientation to behave has if they're of another. You have men that only stick with other men, or men who stick with only women and you have men that play with everybody. Chances for any man to engage in sex outside of his own orientation is slim. It has nothing to do with fear of intimacy, for example there are plenty of heterosexual only men who are quite happy to be intimate with women, as there men with both men and women.

Heterosexual men are just not going to be intimate with men, if it runs counter to their own orientation.

You and I are of different orientations, the likelihood of either one of us (Or any other man) having intimate contact outside of our own self-defined orientations only has a 0.3% chance of happening.

I can't see that more than 99% of heterosexual males, who will never go outside of their own orientation, be generally classified as "homophobic", simply because they tend to stay heterosexual. Especially, if the term is used as a derogative for people who refuse to engage in same sex behavior. As far as relating whatever reaction to the idea of acting outside of one's orientation, it's unfair to cite examples of men of two different orientations when they are presented to the same situation. Men of different orientations will react differently.

Rather than thinking about homophobia in terms of a "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality, I prefer to take a "live and let live" approach.

For example, despite the fact that I know that I will never willingly engage in same sex behavior, I think it quite necessary for gays, bisexuals and transgendered folks to have the same opportunities, rights, privileges, responsibilities as heterosexuals, if we're ever going to have the right to call ourselves a free and fair society. I willingly accept the rights of individuals outside of my own sexual orientation to live happy and healthy lives as they see fit.

Do you really think that anyone who does not want to engage in same sex behavior, that person should be labeled as "homophobic"? Is this even fair? To do this will turn off a lot of folks in the "Straight, but not narrow" category, such as myself.

As I said before, I pretty much expect actors to act. That's what they're being paid to do. But, I do understand their reaction, in spite of their responsibility to be professionals, if they are put into a situation that runs counter to their own particular sexual orientation.

[Behind the Aegis]

140. I am sorry, but you are way off on this one.

How in the Sam Hill did we go from talking about "kissing" to "fucking?!" You do realize outside of the American culture that men often hold hands and kiss other men as a form of friendship (intimacy) and it has nothing to do with sexual behavior or orientation?

"Heterosexual men are just not going to be intimate with men, if it runs counter to their own orientation."

No, I haven't seen anything that leads me to believe this true. If you only define sex as 'intimacy,' then, yes, you probably have a point.

"Do you really think that anyone who does not want to engage in same sex behavior, that person should be labeled as "homophobic"? Is this even fair? To do this will turn off a lot of folks in the "Straight, but not narrow" category, such as myself."

That is a strawman. I have made it very clear what I feel homophobia is and isn't. For you to even imply such a thing after the posts I have made indicate one of two things, you didn't understand what I wrote or you are being completely disrespectful of my opinion. Another possibility, I must consider, is you have already resigned yourself to your position and no amount of logic and reason will persuade you to reconsider or even think about the situation in different terms.

Considering all of the above, I will say, if you find the idea of kissing another man to be repulsive to the point you feel it could make you sick or you think it would be "icky," then yes, you have an issue with homophobia, at least in one area. Does it mean you are a homophobe? Not necessarily. If I take what you say to be true, then I would not say you were a homophobe, but you do have a homophobic issue within yourself.

[MrScorpio]

142. I am referring to intimate contact of a sexual nature...

Such as kissing as a prelude to sex. And I'm stating once again, that I won't do it. It's quite different from a friendly hug or other close contact with another male of a non-sexual nature, which I don't have a problem with.

I hope that I'm clear.

And yes I do understand that outside of American culture, intimate, non-sexual contact between men happens. No problem understanding that.

But, it's also my understanding that in referring to the context of the roles in the movie where American heterosexual actors are required to kiss as a prelude (or dramatic simulation of) intimate sexual contact, they are uncomfortable with the situation. Of which, I really can't see why any outside observer should find this situation objectionable. You yourself would not object, but is it reasonable to expect men of a different orientation to have the same reaction as you? Again, chances are that only 0.3% of men would engage in sexual contact outside of their orientation.

So I'm saying that the prevalence of men not to have a desire for intimate sexual contact outside of their own orientation should not be construed as anything negative.

If we're operating on two different definitions on what is and what isn't homophobia, you should know that I'm only referring to how this relates to bigotry and discrimination against the rights of others to live as they see fit. If this is what's behind the confusion, I do understand your reaction. We're not meshing this thing here.

Personally, I think that any reference to homophobia as it regards to one's own personal behavior should be left up to the individual. As in regard to the personal behavior of others, I don't think that any of us as any right to insinuate that any other person's lack of flexibility in their own sexual orientation is a good thing or a bad thing. It merely is what it is.

In other words, the term "homophobia" shouldn't be used as a judgment call to dictate what a person would do with their own body, but as an opinion that identifies individuals who object to same sex behavior in others through the projection of their own narrowly defined personal preference.

[Behind the Aegis]

143. OK. This last post made your position MUCH clearer.

I appreciate your response.

"But, it's also my understanding that in referring to the context of the roles in the movie where American heterosexual actors are required to kiss as a prelude (or dramatic simulation of) intimate sexual contact, they are uncomfortable with the situation. Of which, I really can't see why any outside observer should find this situation objectionable. You yourself would not object, but is it reasonable to expect men of a different orientation to have the same reaction as you?"

So, if, as a gay male actor, I were to say it was nauseating (kissing a woman in a role), you'd think that acceptable because I am gay?

"Again, chances are that only 0.3% of men would engage in sexual contact outside of their orientation."

You need to re-read your links. That was a study with people who are "hyper"-sexual.

"So I'm saying that the prevalence of men not to have a desire for intimate sexual contact outside of their own orientation should not be construed as anything negative."

I didn't say anything of the sort either, but there is a difference between not desiring something and finding something repulsive.

While you may think there is only one definition of homophobia, there isn't. It is as complex as racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry. Whereas personal behavior should be left up to the individual, when those behaviors are displayed, then one can comment on said behaviors, even if it presents something uncomfortable. Again, there is a difference between wanting to kiss someone of the same sex and finding if you had to do it then it evokes feelings of disgust.

"I fully support blacks having relationships with each other, even with white folks, but it makes me sick to even think about being intimate with one."
"I fully support blacks having relationships with each other, even with white folks, but it is something I don't particularly desire."

Is one racist and the other not? Are both racist comments? Are neither racist comments?

[MrScorpio]

144. I do think it's acceptable for you to object to behaving ouside of your own orientation

I think that that should apply to everyone, regardless of their own orientation.

As it regards to one's particular orientation, I don't think that anyone should project their own likes or dislikes on others as a tool to judge anyone else's preferences.

As far as one's own personal reaction, how can I judge what it is, either repulsion or lack of desire, if that person keeps it to themselves?

I respect what a person does with oneself, regardless how not open minded one's behavior may seem.

But I completely reject accepting that person's attempt to project their own personal preferences on others.

[Behind the Aegis]

146. Well, I completely reject that a person is absolved of bigotry....

...simply because it is not expressed. It isn't a matter of "projecting," but understanding the reality of bigotry, in all of its forms.

"I fully support blacks having relationships with each other, even with white folks, but it makes me sick to even think about being intimate with one."
"I fully support blacks having relationships with each other, even with white folks, but it is something I don't particularly desire."

Is one racist and the other not? Are both racist comments? Are neither racist comments?

[Maru Kitteh]

141. I elected not to pursue acting because I didn't want to be put in the position of having to kiss

a republican......... I mean, I'm all about sacrificing for the art but I HAVE MY LIMITS!

[Hanse]

145. My wife is just as bad.

She refuses to participate in the FFM threesome I want to film.