We are the new "centrists".

[kentuck]

To further explore the subject matter of another post on this page, I think we need to look at how we define ourselves. We limit ourselves by letting others define us. We need to frame the issues in a new reality.

The majority of people in this country support a national healthcare system. It is not a "left-wing" idea anymore. The majority of people support more rights for workers and less rights for corporations. That is not a left-wing idea anymore. Most folks support higher taxes on those that have benefitted so greatly with the "trickle-down" economy of the last 25-30 years. That is no longer a "left-wing" idea. The country has moved toward our positions. We are the new "centrists" on a lot of major issues. We should not limit ourselves with definitions of left-wing vs right-wing framing. We have become more pragmatic because of political realities.

[Romulox]

1. "Centrism" is a code word for Center/Right corporatism. I wouldn't wear that label if you paid me.

[kentuck]

4. And what is "left-wing" a code word for??

It is all about labels and framing.

[AmyCamus]

7. Liberal.

You're welcome for free education.

[Romulox]

10. "Someone who puts people before profits" nt

[kentuck]

13. I think that aptly defines our new President?

Call it whatever you will. It is only a label. It is results that matter.

[Romulox]

15. No, our new President is a "centrist". nt

[John Q. Citizen]

30. If we want to play word games, fine. But let's look at the proposals and what they actually do and

fuck off on whether stuff is "right" or "left" or "center."

This is what bugs me.


We invaded a sovereign country because they have oil and we built Iran into an overnight regional power by taking out their number one competitor, which was Iraq, formerly.

That's wrong.

Not centrist. Not left. not right.

It's wrong.

and our government would like to distract us from that fact.

In fact our whole system of empire is wrong. I don't expect Barack to say that because I don't expect that much from him.

Which leaves it up to us to make sure that it is said.

See, I don't see this framing you speak of being used against the so called right, The Repo Party. I see it being used instead against people who want more change than perhaps Obama has permission to make.

[kentuck]

31. Change does not and will not happen overnight...

It is a process. I agree with most of your post.

[riqster]

34. Good points

Left, Center and Right are not operating along the same continuum as Right and Wrong.

[mdmc]

38. NICE

[Oregone]

2. "We have become more pragmatic because of political realities."

Pragmatism: It's what is needed when you control the executive branch, the House, and the Senate.







:wtf:

[riqster]

3. Speaking as Centrist, I agree

Centrists are simply the mean between extremes. Healthcare is supported by the majority of American, thus is a centrist position. Ditto withdrawal from Iraq. And so on.

[kentuck]

8. And even gay-rights is becoming more of a centrist idea...

that is accepted by more Americans when, not that long ago, it would have been considered a far left-wing idea. Just as an example.

[riqster]

25. Exactly! As the majority gets better information, their positions evolve.

Anyone who isn't ignorant or blinded by hate can tell that equal rights for all Americans is the way to go.

[Romulox]

9. Except that "Centrist" Politicians oppose UHC and withdrawal from Iraq...nt

[kentuck]

12. That are not centrists.

They are radical right-wingers, in the old parlance. They are not with the majority of Americans.

[Romulox]

16. Barack Obama opposes UHC, for example--campaigned against it.

Called it "extreme". :hi:

[riqster]

26. That was a case of definitions, IIRC

:hi: back.

[Romulox]

28. Yes, in the sense that words have meanings, I guess you're right.

Nonetheless, Barack Obama campaigned against single-payer healthcare, no matter what label you choose to place on it. :hi:

[riqster]

33. Single-payer and UHC are not guaranteed synonymous

I'll take coverage for all Americans in some manner for starters.

[kentuck]

17. Are you talking about Universal Health Care??

Just so we are on the same page?

[Romulox]

19. Yup. nt

[riqster]

23. Right-Wingers can call themselves Centrists, but

if they hold positions that are far to the right of Center, they are not Centrists.

Labels can be stolen and misused by the crooked: "Fair and balanced" is a good example.

[Romulox]

24. Obama campaigned against Universal Healthcare--called it "wrong" and "extreme". nt

[riqster]

27. Definition of UHC is key here. nt

[Romulox]

29. He campaigned AGAINST single payer. nt

[riqster]

32. Which is not the only way to UHC

Single-payer is my choice, yeah, but one can skin a cat in multiple manners.

[Romulox]

41. Forced purchases of private insurance is NOT "Universal Healthcare". nt

[truedelphi]

5. I so much agree with you.

Only 32% of all American voters identified themselves as Dems last spring.
And of course, only 28% of all voters identified themselves as Republicans.

Now that leaves a healthy 40% of all Americans who are thinking outside of the block. Now granted a small majority of those people might be John Birchers or Trotsky-ites or Maoists. But I would say that probably about 37% of us are further to the left on most issues than they want us to know.

One way you can tell about how radical the makeup of our population is, involves looking at the M$M's teasers. CNN had "Americans want to impeach Bush" stories as teasers even four years ago. And they would announce they would cover that story at the top of the hour, and not get to it till towards the end. That means they know a whole lotta people want to hear that story. Not just 2 or 3%.

[AmyCamus]

6. Speak for yourself.

"pragmatic" is "centrist" for "sell out"

[kentuck]

11. I only speak for myself...

The center has moved. You are stuck in another world. The old left-wing is becoming the new "center". That is my framing. I don't pretend to speak for anyone else.

[waiting for hope]

14. Labels is what puts things in a quagmire -

Can we just call it Common Sense?

[eleny]

18. Our goal is to make our ideas mainstream

But I'd have to be arm twisted into giving up a liberal identity. Surely there's a benefit to our ideas being viewed as mainstream.

See that? I still have difficulty using the "c" word. :D

[kentuck]

21. liberal is the new centrist.

out of necessity, we have been re-born. There is nothing wrong with the majority of the people agreeing with you. Call it whatever.

[riqster]

35. If we take the old adage of "Left is right"

...then it should come as no surprise that the majority of Americans have adopted much of Left's agenda.

[Robbien]

20. It is a continuation of us and them. Centrists against the far out wacko Left and Right

Obama said there is the far left and the far right but he is a Centrist.

There are the crazies and there are the Centrists. Black and White. For or Against.

This is standard Rahm Emanual Bush Dog philosophy which appears to be the one adopted in today's Obama speech.

There are no sane Center Leftists, no sane Lefties and no sane Far Lefties. Everyone to the left of the New Centrist are wacked out loons.

[kentuck]

22. If that is the way you wish to look at it?

I don't personally think that is a very productive viewpoint if we want to accomplish all the things that the "left" has supported over the years. If we can get it done, what does it matter what we call it?

[Greyhound]

37. It's been like this for recorded history. The left is correct and has to drag

the rest into the future, always to be proven correct, at which point the established bakers of the status quo claim credit, discount the next step, and the process starts again.

[mdmc]

36. I will never be a centrist

I will always be a leftist...

If the sheeple want health care, safe work environments, fair taxation, then they can drop their centrist corporatism and join the workers... the left...

When corporations do what is in the best interest of the working class over their profits, I will be a centrist. Will that ever happen?

[riqster]

39. I'd say it differently

that when PEOPLE matter more than Corporations. And I see signs of that happening.

[bigtree]

40. centrism is one set of means to an end

. . . the center shouldn't be the place where we begin our advocacy.