Ask Ford why in the hell we don't get the Ka!

[RiverStone]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Ka



Did you know Ford has been making the Ka since 1996? It is widely distributed in Europe and Mexico, but not in the United States.

With a MPG in the mid to upper 40's (or higher for the 1.3L engine), Ford has not made this very economical car available to us. They get the bailout, we sure better get the Ka instead of more hummers and SUV's.

[whippo]

1. Safety regs?

[Sanctified]

2. My thoughts exactly.

I was excited to see that the smart car was coming to the US then after all the stuff they had to do for safety regs it barely gets better mileage than my Diesel VW. So my idea of driving around in a hyped up Golf Cart got scrapped, not because the idea wasn't cool just that with our safety regs our gas mileage blows.

[csziggy]

6. So how do Mini Coopers do in comparison? They are extremely popular

And the Ka looks as though it could compete with them.

[dysfunctional press]

10. totally different market- mini-coopers are fairly high-end due to their pricetag.

nt

[csziggy]

28. I see a lot of Mini Coopers around here - didn't know they were high end!

What we need are American made versions of Tatas. They just reduced the price.



http://www.tatamotors.com/

[dysfunctional press]

51. no thanks. i like cars with automobile tires.

that thing looks like a death trap.

mini-coopers are made by bmw, and start at $20k new for the base bare bones model...way more than a fiesta.

[Lex]

52. Mini-coopers brand new are around $19K. That's not "high end."

nt

[dysfunctional press]

54. it's high end for a small car...people who would be looking for a cheap high-mileage car...

like a ka or a fiesta wouldn't be looking at mini-coopers.

[blue_onyx]

57. I've read before that Mini dealers....

tend to increase the price above the manufacturer's recommended price. I guess they assume the people who like the Mini are willing to pay any price. So Minis probably can become high-end priced, especially after you add in extras. I think the Mini is cute but its probably not something I would end up buying.

[Captain Hilts]

5. Yep. nt

[amdezurik]

7. seeing it is based on the Fiesta

and that had no safty issues I really kind of doubt that.

[whippo]

13. from greencar.com

This is on the "new" upgraded version just introduced.-

"It's possible that the Ka could be sold in the U.S. to meet a growing demand for small fuel-sipping cars. Ford already plans to bring the slightly larger Fiesta here in early 2010. If Ford does decide to bring the Ka to the U.S., it likely wouldn't arrive before 2010 or 2011 because of the modifications needed to meet U.S safety and emissions regulations and completion of requisite testing."

http://www.greencar.com/features/new-ford-ka-tdci-gets-56-mpg/

[amdezurik]

17. are we just talking about emmissions?

or other items that would bring the weight up?

[whippo]

20. Well, first the diesel that are sold in Europe generally are not EPA legal here.

Secondly, most upgrades that are required to pass crash testing and the like include beefing up the frame and bumper components. That usually increases weight.

[dysfunctional press]

24. which lowers mpg...

for those that couldn't make the connection.

[madrchsod]

25. they just changed the law on the diesel fuel in the usa

the new generation of engines and fuel can be used in the usa. it really depends on our refiners

[tammywammy]

36. Since the switch over in fall 2006

I haven't seen 1 gas station that doesn't sell ultra-low sulfur diesel.

[backscatter712]

56. Time to revise the crash-testing laws here?

Granted, it would take a lot of number-crunching and engineering work to pore over the laws to figure out what rules can be loosened for the sake of reducing vehicle weight without compromising safety. I wouldn't trush any Bushies any further than I could throw them in that sort of endeavor, but the Obama administration so far is professional enough to handle it.

I can also see loosening the diesel engine laws slightly, to make them compatible with European diesel emission rules - if we standardized emissions with them, the auto manufacturers could make one type of engine that could be sold on both sides of the Atlantic.

[Auggie]

3. Profit margin? Up until recently they were selling enough SUV's.

Maybe we'll get it in a year or two.

[whippo]

4. "It was confirmed in a radio interview with Ford Motor Company CEO Alan Mulally that the second

generation Ka may be introduced to the North American market to satisfy the high demand for smaller, more efficient cars, and to complement rising sales of the Ford Focus. Such a move would make the Ka Ford's smallest vehicle in North America, beneath the Fiesta.<7>"

(In 2009 the Ka will be replaced with a model car co-developed with Fiat S.p.A using the Fiat Panda platform. <2> <3> It will be produced in Tychy, Poland <4> with its Fiat sister, the Fiat 500.<6>)

From your link.

[RiverStone]

9. The operative word is "may" - I hope we hold them to it as a condition of the bail out. n/t

[dysfunctional press]

12. up until several months ago, almost nobody would have been interested in it...

and now with nobody buying anything- it's hard to say how it would actually sell.

[RiverStone]

15. I'll admit I did not even know about the Ka until a few months ago...

I drive a 1991 Honda CRX HF (two seater/45 MPG) with 240K on it and a rebuilt engine. I have no clue what a new Ka would cost and I'm not even in a financial position anytime soon to buy new. It's just if we are ALL going to become share holders of the Detroit BIG 3, I believe they should downsize and streamline to a production line which makes smart cars and more eco-friendly cars.

Someday...I'd love to at least have the option of buying one here. :think:

[whippo]

16. I don't buy the idea that because the company is failing that we should make them sell

certain types of vehicles. I thought the whole point of a business was to provide what the market wants.

[RiverStone]

18. How can you tell what the market wants when we are giving them billions of dollars....

...to tide them over? :shrug:

Without a bailout, would they not be forced to adjust to what the people really want?

Disclaimer: I'm neither pro or anti buyout, in truth I'm very mixed. Hate to see jobs lost, yet also hate to see rewarding a business for very poor decisions and mismanagement.

[dysfunctional press]

21. how well does the ford fiesta sell vs. other cars in their line would be one test...

if people are already taking a pass on their smallest car here- why would they introduce something smaller?

[RiverStone]

29. I wish more folks did prefer to go smaller...

Smaller = lots less CO2 emissions.

But like you said, people are taking a pass - unfortunately.

[dysfunctional press]

50. personally, i think that electric and bio-diesel hybrids are the way to go...

i think that a lot of people are waiting for the next generation, being alternative-fueled vehicles.

btw- do you know one big reason that toyota, gm, and others no loner have electric vehicles with NiMH batteries like gm's ev-1 and toyota's rav-4 ev had?

Whether or not Toyota wanted to continue production, it was unlikely to be able to do so, because the EV-95 battery was no longer available. Chevron had inherited control of the worldwide patent rights for the NiMH EV-95 battery when it merged with Texaco, which had purchased them from General Motors. Chevron's unit won a $30,000,000 settlement from Toyota and Panasonic, and the production line for the large NiMH batteries was closed down and dismantled. This case was settled in the ICC International Court of Arbitration, and not publicised due to a gag order placed on all parties involved.<1><2> Only smaller NiMH batteries, incapable of powering an electric vehicle or plugging in, are currently allowed by Chevron-Texaco.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV

[whippo]

23. Toyota sells a lot of SUV's and trucks to go along with their 25k Prius.

[JVS]

34. I don't buy the idea that because the company is failing we should give them money

So if they want the money, they can do what we say.

[dysfunctional press]

8. you might try reading your own linked article...

It was confirmed in a radio interview with Ford Motor Company CEO Alan Mulally that the second generation Ka may be introduced to the North American market to satisfy the high demand for smaller, more efficient cars, and to complement rising sales of the Ford Focus. Such a move would make the Ka Ford's smallest vehicle in North America, beneath the Fiesta

[RiverStone]

11. I did, and I want "may" turned to "will" --- it's easy to say "may" with 14B on the table.

It should be in writing.

[dysfunctional press]

14. just because it sells well abroad, it doesn't mean that it would do well here.

especially now that gas prices have cratered.

[tammywammy]

37. Exactly, it's the same with why VW hasn't brought the Polo to the US either. n/t

[madrchsod]

19. here`s why 5 mph bumpers and dual air bags

plus there`s not enough of a market to re- engineer the car

dam i`m spacing out today

[ogneopasno]

22. Why on earth would I want to put myself in that, when I have a perfectly good 2008

Ford Focus that gets 36-40+ mpg? Or my 2008 Ford Taurus, which is even more comfortable and classy looking and gets 26+ mpg, and I can actually get two hockey bags in it?

[madrchsod]

26. or my 86 honda crx lol....

a lot of americans could`t fit in one of those euro boxes

[lastliberalintexas]

38. Shhh- most DUers won't admit that the Focus exists

Or that it's the best selling car in the world. American carmakers don't make cars people actually want to buy, don't you know?

[ogneopasno]

60. Oh SHIT! I keep forgetting!

[LeftyMom]

27. The first words that came to mind when I saw that car were "deathtrap" and "rollerskate"

Followed by "it looks like a low rent Smart car, and I wouldn't buy one of those either."

[RiverStone]

31. Actually, those little smart cars do well in crash tests

http://money.cnn.com/2008/05/14/autos/smart_fortwo_iihs_crash_test/index.htm?postversion=2008051410

[LeftyMom]

35. Until they do crash tests versus oblivious drivers in ginat SUVs, I'm skeptical.

I suspect that, unlike a stationary object, they'd go up and over one of those little things.

Not that it matters, I need cargo space in my car, and actually use it.

[Eurobabe]

44. Hey, you makin' fun of my couch on wheels?

:rofl:

[amandabeech]

30. I talked to a Ford dealer about this in October.

Ford plans to retool some of its truck, SUV and van plants to make the Fiesta and possibly the Ka. The money would have come from the $25 in the 2007 energy bill.

Ford also intends on bringing the new euro Focus here soon, possibly including a very snappy cabriolet.

Whether the Fiesta and Ka will sell well here with oil prices so low and consumers pulling back is anyone's guess. I think that Ford would have to underprice the Corolla and Civic to do it.

[JCMach1]

33. They already do with Mondeo... Corolla is just CHEAP

sorry but it is... especially those over the last 5 years...

[amandabeech]

48. I thought that the Mondeo was the Contour/Mystique.

What is the Mondeo in the U.S.?

[JCMach1]

61. it is not in the US- Originally

Contour was the same... Mondeo became a sole designation years back.



Def. not a Contour

[amandabeech]

63. Looks nice! Maybe we'll get it back.

I love my Taurus, but next time around I'd be willing to try one of these.

[JCMach1]

32. Or the Mondeo... srsly it's better than a Camry...

and sexier.

[Liberal_and_proud]

39. I love this video of a 70km Smart Car crash

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJHpUO-S0i8

Shows how well they are built

[ddeclue]

45. And my 5700 pound 1995 Dodge Ram 4x4 P/U would still

crush that piece of junk like an empty beer can and kill everyone in it without putting a scratch on the truck. I sold the truck early this year and traded in on a Dodge Charger R/T which gets twice the gas mileage but is still a very heavy and very safe car.

A few years ago, someone just merely rear ended me at a stopped light in their Honda Civic and it ripped the hell out of the front end and hood of that car and that was merely a 5 mph crash. Meanwhile the truck wasn't even scratched.

You can't sell cars like this in the US unless you are first going to confiscate every large POV in the US to protect the owners of these roller skates. You can't do that even if you give them a free rollerskate because there will be a huge political backlash against it.

By the way I saw some of these when I was in England in November and Textron and EZ Go make more substantial golf carts than these things and the vast majority of American males would simply not fit into one of these vehicles.

You can make cars which are comfortable AND safe AND fuel efficient. It's a false dichotomy to say that we have to choose.

One solution is electrics - another is methanol fuel cell. Even with conventional engines it should be possible to get 40MPG with good design and 6 speed transmissions.

Doug D.

[SlicerDicer-]

59. Read up on how a smart was tag teamed by Semi's in Seattle

Get a clue please...

The Smart is well built and you get tag teamed by semi's in your shitty Dodge Ram you would be dead..

Yes this is flame bait but its true flame bait.

http://jalopnik.com/389911/smart-fortwo-punted-by-delivery-truck-returned-by-van

Weeeehaw!

[backscatter712]

55. Not half-bad!

Most conventional cars would have serious problems remaining that intact after smashing into concrete at 70MPH.

[ddeclue]

40. Oh the humanity!!!

When one of these roller skates gets caught up under someone's 4x4 truck or Hummer.

We need better fuel efficiency but that does NOT mean we should all be forced to drive rollerskates.

If I wanted to drive a motorcycle and put myself at that level of risk, I would drive a motorcycle.

A car this small is simply not safe enough at interstate speeds to be sold in this country.

We can easily get 40 MPG WITHOUT driving roller skates.

I own a 1995 Z28 Camaro convertible with a 6 speed manual and a 5.7L V8 and I can get 32 MPG out of it on the interstate at 65MPH and 6th gear in cruise control. If I can do this with a 13 year old car (and convertible at that) we can certainly do 40MPG without resorting to roller skates.

Former owner of an 1982 VW Rabbit...

Doug D.

[RiverStone]

42. Nobody is forcing you...

I'm advocating for the choice, nothing more.

BTW, see post #39 for how well the smart car does in crash tests.

On edit: Of course, this is not a Ka crash test and I'm not sure if it is representative, but it is good to see such a tiny car do so well.

[ddeclue]

46. Yeah but your choice to drive a roller skate drives up MY insurance

because if I kill one in their roller skate or injure them, I'll end up paying more because they were driving an unsafe subpar car.

You CAN have a safe car, a comfortable car, and a fuel efficient car without having to buy more than one car to do it.

Doug D.

[RiverStone]

47. Driving too fast, too drunk, or while talking on the cell also...

...drives up insurance.

As all also cause wrecks, though I can't tell ya in what percentage without doing more research.

Going back to the OP, if not the Ka --- then what type of re-tooling, re-marketing, or re-production would you demand of the BIG 3 before we all become shareholders in an arrogantly mismanaged business that is asking for a 14-15 billion dollar bailout?

They sure as hell better do something different!?

[kentauros]

49. You make it sound as if your driving habits would be the reason for the death of another

than any perceived unsafe standards in the design of smaller cars. Just because your truck (or whatever massive vehicle it is you're driving that weighs in at 5700 pounds) seems to have a diamond coating and a neutronium body such that it never gets a scratch from run-ins with smaller cars, doesn't mean that smaller cars are inherently unsafe. It only means that we don't have a standard when it comes to bumper heights (like they do in Europe) and that existing traffic laws are not as heavily enforced so that there are fewer accidents.

Personally, I would rather force everyone out of our current vehicles and into robotcars, negating the need for insurance, traffic lights, traffic cops, and the need to pay attention to driving the road when you'd rather be txting on your cell or watching last night's tivo-ed ballgame on your popup DVD-player ;)

[TreasonousBastard]

41. How long did it take to get the Yaris here? Or...

the Fit or Versa?

And how many of them are they selling? Even when gas cost twice as much as it does now?

As was said, or hinted, upthread, it would cost hundreds of millions to redo the thing to make it legal to sell here and just how and when are they to get that money back?

Just for shits and giggles, say it's only 50 million development cost to get it over here (lowball). At $1,000 a car profit (high?) that's 50,000 Kas before they break even. So, let's get back to the how many Fits and Versas are selling...

Gambling as much as billions on car design just because you or I think it's a neat idea does not get them out of the hole.

(Does VW still make the original Beetle in Mexico-- that's not allowed here either)

[Eurobabe]

43. Honestly you don't want it

That car (at least in 2001) had the worst suspension EVER. We crossed the Italian Alps with 3 people in it, and by the time we hit the valley after Cortina I thought we all were going to spew! IIRC there are several other models made by Ford that get good gas mileage and are a step above the KaKa (as we call it).

In Europe, Ford still offers the Fiesta: http://www.ford.co.uk/ns7/fiestab299/-/-/-/-/-/-

A new KA is coming soon, hopefully this will have better suspension!

[TheBigotBasher]

53. Wow some people really do believe the big is better myth

If the car has no crumple zone - the driver and passenger crumples instead. The shock of an impact at high speed (and high in reality does mean anything over 30 MPH even though it does not feel like it) has to go somewhere. This is why ALLL Euro cars are designed with low impact crumple zones. Your truck may be as strong as anything and appear solid. I however would prefer legs.

As for people thinking American car safety standards are more stringent than those in the EU, I laughed my head off. HAve a look at NCAP standards.

[jakefrep]

58. Our government is a bigger roadblock to this car than anybody in Ford's boardroom.

It isn't cost-effective to bring this car up to US specs.

[JVS]

62. I like the Fiesta better