Socialism in America. I want to comment more on my assertion.

[Smith_3]

I posted a thread titled "It sounds like people want socialism for the own nation but not for others, ergo "national" socialism" a while ago which was locked. I want to be more specific about this claim.

The thing is, what I have observed is that there is definately some sort of "workers movement" going on in the United States. Even if you listen to right wing hate speech, like the kind they have on the airwaves in my region, it seems like the tone is "pro-worker" or pro-joe-blow or anti-elitist or how you want to frame it. People call in and say that "Obama has all the money behind him" and that is the same way as they have viewed Kerry and Clinton.

The problem I have is that the workers movement to me appears to have taken a wrong turn. Even among democrats. Anti-globalism seems to mean "arm the borders" to many people. Alot of people seem to think that the solution to their jobs being outsourced is xenophobia. As if the Chinese/Japanese/Mexican or whatever workforce is responsible for their misery, alot of people seem to think that the correct response to the current crisis is isolationism.

One should not forget that all across the world workers are struggling against the elites. But it seems like the american workers movement is framing itsself in a way that positions it in competition with the workforce of other countries. That IMO is something to worry about. It is more of "the same" and, if you ask me, posesses a potential for alot more harm that has been done so far.

I think the correct approach to the current situation is not isolationsim, such as "buy american", but the development of a global consciousness, in the sense that people should realise that the american worker and the chinese/mexican/japanese worker are in the same boat when it comes to their rights.

Cheers.

[glowing]

1. We need fair trade not free trade.

AND each country needs to find their niche. China could have developed something the world wanted instead of slave labor for hire... India the same thing. AND we as developed countries should have insisted on anything entering our shores was made under the same guidelines that we'd expect. Then we'd have a better quality of life, less environmental mess, and an ability to appreciate countries for the unique abilities and receive more quality, less crap.

[EC]

2. I don't know, I get the feeling that it's going the other way and

the Unions in different countries are going to join into international Unions...

[Smith_3]

3. I certainly hope so.

That would be great.

[BeFree]

4. Yeah well

Wage equalization has to take place. And the main needs of humans most become more equal: Housing and foods etc, must be delivered on a more equal basis. Lifestyles must change to become more equal so that wages equalize. So our lifestyles must decline as others (the majority of the world) rise until we meet a fairer, more equal balance among all workers.

These are my personal thots, but they do mesh with what I believe are the thots of the PTB-Powers That Be.

Of course, the PTB want to remain the PTB and take even more from all working people.

[lumberjack_jeff]

5. Economic populism is back. It's a good thing.

The US political system, and the people who earn paychecks from being "politicians", work ONLY for US citizens. That's the way it is and also the way it should be. US government policy benefits those who live outside the country only as incidental to benefiting US citizens. I want better working conditions in Mexico because it decreases our competitive disadvantage. I want improved environmental standards in China because it improves the worldwide environment, improves the safety of products and decreases our competitive disadvantage.

I won't agree to anything that tangibly harms the long term interests of US workers, and if you consider that xenophobic, I can live with that. US workers ARE in competition with foreign workers and companies.

The economic pendulum has swung much too far toward globalization and has brought us terrible harm. The cure is moderate doses of isolationism.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

6. Well said. K&R

The Chinese, Indians, Mexicans, Hondurans, etc, were exploited for centuries by the colonial powers, including the Americans.

They are now beginning to build their own economies. The cries of, "Why can't you be like us with workers rights and environmental safeguards?", is akin to complaining that a toddler isn't running the hundred meters in 10 seconds.

[guruoo]

7. We really don't need to be encouraging immigration right now, IMO.

[Sex Pistol]

8. You make some good points; however, as long as people continue to look to the "elites" for

salvation, they will continue to be disappointed.

All of the easy things that the elite can do for the people have been done.

The hard things must be accomplished by the people themselves.

[catnhatnh]

11. Oh Horse Cock...

Show me a single thing the "Elites" have done for the people. Every hard thing ever done for the working class in the last 100 years was done by the working class plus FDR-a single elitist that YOUR elites attempted a coup against. May you lick the nether regions of the next striker who casts aside his need for food because of priciple. Warm your tongue up,because from the workers you disdain the guy you need to tongue will arrive tomorrow.

[Sex Pistol]

12. Lighten up, son. If you do that, you will live longer.

:hi:

[readmoreoften]

9. That's economic populism, not socialism.

They hate unions and laud "Joe the Plumber" small business (petit bourgeois interests) and the religious values and the (logical) anti-government intrusion ethos of farm life or 'landed peasantry'. These have always been 2 factions that band together against the working class whenever the capitalists and royal elite so desires. The Paris commune is a perfect example. The old monarchs banded together with the nationalists who ousted them and conscripted the brainwashed peasantry to band together with German (Prussian) occupying forces to kill the workers of the Paris Commune--30,000 of them--after signing a peace treaty with them. The Commune was so happy that they didn't kill their oppressors. They thought it was a 'new day for humanity'. They destroyed the guillotine. Then they were massacred.

[catnhatnh]

10. Well, you've been locked once tonight.

So post now some proof of a "workers movement" going on. Show ANY proof that right wing radio is "pro-worker". "Anti-elitism" is just right wing horseshit directed against democrats who compare merit. Pro joe-blow is horseshit they made up and you buy.In point of fact all that is occurring is unions giving concessions and no major new unionization in the past decade. Your call in people are naive, or liars, or referring to a president first elected 16 years ago or a guy who by their own description "Lost" an election" so they should realize that defeating "money" ain't that tough...

And yes...competing against either subsidized (japanese) or underpaid (chinese) or undocumented (mexican) workers DOES harm every american worker.

If you want to "Worry" then direct your worry towards those who allow each of these worker classes you name-the subsidized, the exploited offshore, and the exploited in country to flourish and fuck American workers because they directly benefit a small class of americans whom I assure you do not labor.

Leaving out the subsidized, who can be laid off to international jockeying, lets touch on just the last two...Chinese exploited by their government and Mexicans ignored by ours.They are each exploited by a NATIONAL GOVERNMENT-not by workers here,and each enriches an elite by improving their lot slightly by decreasing the lot of american natives and both by the collusion of the US government or the financial elite.

The point is not that we are "in the same boat". We never were before.; The point is to revolt against the bastards who shoved us into the boat with impoverished hispanics and asians.

Of course I assume your "cheers" means you consider yourself a "thinker" and not one of us.