HOLY SMOKES! Did you watch Moyers tonight?

[Dover]

Glenn Greenwald AND Emma Coleman Jordan were phenomenal! They hit every nail on the head with
a sledgehammer! It's time to make our stand. BOTH parties of our government are culpible. And that is why we cannot hope to see accountablility or true change in our government. It is up to us.

This is not one to be missed. If you did miss it, be sure to watch the video or look
for a rebroadcast.

http://www.pbs.org:80/moyers/journal/

Transcript: http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/12122008/transcript4.html

AND PLEASE SUPPORT THIS PROGRAM. You are very unlikely to get this kind of coverage anywhere in the
corporate-owned press. It's invaluable.

[mdmc]

1. thanks for the link

[malaise]

2. It was brilliant

I never miss Bill Moyers.

[Speciesamused]

33. He is one of the few Great Journalists

we have today. I record all his shows.
:toast:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

3. Comes on in a half an hour. Thanks for the reminder!

:hi:

[cbayer]

4. Thanks for the heads up. One of the best shows on television!

:toast:

[scarletwoman]

5. k&r -- it's outstanding. Still watching it in my time zone. (nt)

[proud patriot]

6. it's on a bit later on the west coast

I'll be sure to watch it

[Dover]

7. Be sure to watch ALL segments, until the very end. It is relentless...n/t

[malaise]

10. The key point made by Greenwald

These ideas were implemented after 9/11 and using the 9/11 attacks as justification. But the ideologues who implemented them, Dick Cheney and David Addington and John Yoo and the whole cast of right-wing ideologues who fill the Justice Department, have been advocating these ideas, which for decades were fringe and discredited ideas long before 9/11 and just like the idea of remove Saddam Hussein, they were empowered to institute them as a result of these crises.

MIHOP or LIHOP??

[Beam Me Up]

25. M I H O P

They didn't leave it to chance and Building 7 is the smoking gun proof.

[illuminaughty]

48. MIHOP , yep and building 7

One of the two witnesses to what happened in that particular building is now conveniently deceased.

[chimpymustgo]

53. Who is the witness? (And I'm MIHOP)

[Subdivisions]

60. Mr. Barry Jennings. He was a deputy emergency management

head for the outlying areas of NYC. He told Jason Bermis on camera that while he was in the EMC in WTC 7, there was a explosion in the building prior to the collapse. Look him up on YouTube. He is actually interviewed after leaving the building by a reporter on the street just moments after the explosion.

He died under mysterious circumstances a few months ago and no reason for his death have been forthcoming.

[defendandprotect]

70. Here's one You Tube link -- and Thank You for info---!

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Barry+Jennings%2C+9%2F11&search_type=&aq=f
Barry Jennings

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Jason+Bermis%2C+9%2F11&search_type=&aq=f
Jason Bemis

May requre more searching for the original video you referred to ...

[illuminaughty]

76. Barry Jennings. He was trapped inside 7 and told quite an interesting

account. There was another witness who told basically the same story but he has since denied it and stopped talking. Check out this article. It's pretty amazing.

http://firefightersfor911truth.org/?p=569

[defendandprotect]

69. MIHOP ...

[barbtries]

29. mihop

my opinion...

[anonymous171]

38. LIHOP because I'm not insane.

[lonestarnot]

52. MIHOP because you choose not to look it in the face?

[Wizard777]

57. MIHOP because Bush is insane and Cheney is treacherous.

[ekwhite]

40. Neither

Murphy's corollary to Occam's Razor: never blame on malevolence what can be explained by incompetence.

The simplest explanation in my mind is not that there was a vast conspiracy to blow up the WTC, or to allow Osama bin Laden to do the job. The simplest explanation is that the Bush administration ignored the warning signs, especially since they thought that bin Laden was nothing but a Clinton obsession.

Of course, Karl Rove being the competent politico that he is, he seized the opportunity provided by 9/11 to push through the Bush agenda. They are no fools when it comes to politics.

I have always believed that the crimes the Bush administration has committed are bad enough that we don't need a conspiracy related to 9/11 to indict them.

[noise]

46. One shouldn't be intimidated

or thrown by the prospect of being labeled an unpatriotic conspiracy nut for having the gall to question across the board bizarre conduct by US agencies in the lead up to 9/11. For example, Tenet's CIA withheld crucial intel for 20 months (01/00-08/01). The withholding continued for 10 months after US sailors were killed in the Cole attack and even during the summer '01 threat period in which the "system was blinking red." Hayden failed to use FISA even though al Qaeda operatives were inside the US. The White House evidently did nothing despite receiving all sorts of dire warnings. The FBI UBLU (Bin Laden unit) blamed the ("Gorelick") wall to justify their withholding of intel from the FBI criminal side investigators (those investigating the Cole attack). Investigations after 9/11 demonstrated that the wall excuse wasn't applicable. Besides, what sort of FBI agents would act in such a cautious manner in relation to pursuing al Qaeda operatives? It's bizarre conduct.

Many of the same officials who acted in such a strange manner were advocates of the illegal counterterrorism policies. IMO, that association isn't worth dismissing because one fears being branded a conspiracy nut. Is it right for intel officials and politicians to make the case for torture and warrantless spying while they refuse to declassify key information about the attacks they used as the justification for their illegal CT policies? For example, the full CIA IG report. The 28 pages of the JI report which detail Saudi support for alHazmi and alMihdhar. Details of the July 10 briefing given to Rice by the CIA. Testimony from the heads of the CIA/FBI Bin Laden units (Rich B. and Rod Middleton). How is it possible that these two key officials have never explained their conduct to the public? Furthermore, if skeptics of the government's story are mere conspiracy nuts then why is the government continuing to hide so much information about the attacks?

It seems the public is simply expected to unconditionally accept that government officials act in good faith. Thus, we should go along with the excessive classification and illegal tactics as our leaders shouldn't be questioned. This isn't representative democracy. This is authoritarianism. If they truly believe they need the crutch of illegal tactics then they can find other jobs. I'm sure the Syrian government will be impressed with their resumes.

[chimpymustgo]

54. Dick Cheney "coincidentally" overseeing war games with NORAD on 9/11?? MIHOP to any except the

blind.

[clear eye]

59. Jackson Stevens n/t

[defendandprotect]

42. MIHOP --

[EFerrari]

8. I have to wait a few hours but thanks so much for reminding me!

:hi:

[BrklynLiberal]

9. K&R Moyers is another one of our national treasures.

[slipslidingaway]

11. Great program, now let's see what Fox news does with this

interview???

http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/

"...Additionally, Jim Angle of Fox News is doing a report on the John Brennan controversy for Brit Hume's program, and I was interviewed by him at length about that today. I'll post the date and time of its broadcast once I know it. It should be quite interesting to see how that ends up being edited and presented...

[SeattleGirl]

12. On here in a little more than an hour.

Moyers never does a bad program, but this one sounds like it's outstanding.

[DebbieCDC]

13. I always watch on Friday nights

It will be on here in less than an hour (west coast). Bill is truly one of the few independent journalists -- as in a REAL journalist -- that progressives have to count on.

[Ichingcarpenter]

14. Thanks it comes on too late here for some reason

I always have to catch it on line later.

Glen is a great lawyer too, He needs to be televised.

[madokie]

20. I just finished watching and let me say be ready

Americans better wake the hell up and do it soon, we're about to lose it all. These traitors are trying to take us down

[L0oniX]

31. I'm still going to settle on the idea of a full scale revolution.

The rich and powerful need to have their heads chopped off ...Marie Antoinette style.

[Luciferous]

15. very interesting

thanks for the link

[slipslidingaway]

16. Bill Moyers interviews Glenn Greenwald - youtube links

Posted in political videos...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=249536&mesg_id=249536

[rtassi]

34. Great interview ... thank you for posting this! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

37. YW :) n/t

[Seldona]

49. Thanks for posting.

What a line-up. Going to watch as soon as I am done with my other downloads. Glenn Greenwald is one of my favorites. Been reading his blog for years.

[Catshrink]

17. That was tremendous.

Greenwald was amazing, as was Coleman. Obama must appoint a committee to investigate -- this is no time to make nice.

[Gregorian]

18. Recommending like nothing I've ever recommended before.

There is nothing else to say. It's now time to act, or time to let America go.


The notion that Obama can take Bush's dictatorial presidency, and use it to reverse the Bush malevolent actions and rulings, and then return to a state of Constitutional law upon restoration, is brilliant. This was an exquisite interview. This interview is a great source of relief.

[madokie]

21. I'm scared shitless but at the same time I feel hope that we have someone

working on our behalf. All I can add to that is we better be ready to get his back when the man makes his move. I know I will.

[humbled_opinion]

67. The Scary Part

Once Obama does make those changes if Al-Qaida does succesfully strike on American soil the Right Wing are going to crucify Obama by means of going to the American people and saying that the Changes Obama made are what killed their children.

In fact I think they will instigate rioting and possible sectarian division in this country. Who knows one day in the near future we may have an occupying force on our streets trying to maintain order and discipline.

[Daphne08]

19. Yes, it was a great show.

[SpiralHawk]

22. The k and the r

Against the Corrupt Republicon Ripoff Homeland, and for the United States of America

[IDemo]

23. Kicking, with a recommendation

Forward the video to any of your right wing friends and family who haven't understood clearly your outrage and frustration over the past 8 years. Greenwald is a voice we should be hearing much more of.

[pleah]

24. K&R

[antimatter98]

26. Moyers is also podcast via iTunes for free. I keep wondering when..

or IF the American public will come to realize that the BushCo team was
wanting to do what they've done for decades---and that not only 911 was
part of it but so is this financial crisis.

I tend to think that because of generational biases and beliefs, Americans
will never really suddenly realize what has happened.

But one thing to keep in mind: the bigger the lie, the easier it is
to convince people that it is not a lie. WE've had some very very big
things happen to America since 911.

[JDPriestly]

28. Can I get ITunes on my PC?

[barbtries]

30. yes

[JDPriestly]

27. Thanks for the tip. It was amazing.

Can I watch Moyers videos without buying his special service? Does he post them without subscription? I have a PC.

[stlsaxman]

47. i believe subscribing to the podcast is free.

i just subscribed and paid nothing. and after next weeks show it will be downloaded as podcast as soon as it airs on the network.

[Blue_In_AK]

32. Great show,

depressing as hell. I don't know how we'll ever get out of the mess we're in.

[WheelWalker]

35. Both Joe Biden and Barack Obama have expressed, repeatedly,

that conduct will be reviewed, and criminal conduct will be prosecuted no matter who it is. I believe them.

[Dover]

39. I don't know how I missed that. Do you have a link to one of their speeches or an article

where they said that?

Much appreciated.

[kath]

61. When have they said that?? Repeatedly? Links please -

since most of us are under the impression that they have repeatedly said that they will NOT investigate.

[WheelWalker]

74. I'm looking. Stump speeches during the campaign, after the conventions.

[WheelWalker]

75. Here's a link

to a google search result that gives links to discussions of Biden's first mention...I think at the time the pick of Palin sucked all the oxygen out of the democratic campaign.

http://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&channel=s&hl=en&q=%22If+there+has+been+a+basis+upon+which+you+%22can+pursue+someone+for+a+criminal+violation%2C+they+will+be+pursued%2C%22&btnG=Google+Search

That's the first time I heard it. Obama later said essentially the same thing. I'll look for that, too. Honestly, I don't think Barack or Joe have been dodging prosecution of Bush officials, at all.

[Dover]

77. Thanks for finding that. Yes indeed, I totally missed that important promise.

According to Pelosi, there IS no evidence of criminal activity. So I hope she won't be getting in the way. However Biden repeats that same line about not anticipating pursuing criminal charges against Bush and not having any evidence to that effect at that time. So who knows what that all really means.


Here's what one of the articles you linked to said:


Democratic vice-presidential nominee Joe Biden said earlier this week that he and running mate Barack Obama could pursue criminal charges against the Bush administration if they are elected in November.

..snip..

But his statements represent the Democrats' strongest vow so far this year to investigate alleged misdeeds committed during the Bush years.

When asked during a campaign event in Deerfield Beach, Florida, whether he would "pursue the violations that have been made against our Constitution by the present administration", Biden answered in the affirmative.

"We will not be stopped from pursuing any criminal offence that's occurred," he continued, going on to praise congressional committees for the deliberate pace of their inquiries into alleged Bush administration misdeeds.

Members of Congress are "doing the right thing, they're not making false accusations about anything … they're collecting data, subpoenaing records, they're building a file", Biden said.

"If there has been a basis upon which you can pursue someone for a criminal violation, they will be pursued – not out of vengeance, not out of retribution, out of the need to preserve the notion that no one, no attorney general, no president -- no one is above the law."

Obama sounded a similar note in April, vowing that if elected, he would ask his attorney general to initiate a prompt review of Bush-era actions to distinguish between possible "genuine crimes" and "really bad policies".

"f crimes have been committed, they should be investigated," Obama told the Philadelphia Daily News. "You're also right that I would not want my first term consumed by what was perceived on the part of Republicans as a partisan witch hunt, because I think we've got too many problems we've got to solve."

When asked about his comments by Fox news today, Biden said he has no evidence that criminal charges would be warranted and no intention of pursuing action against the current president.

"What is true is the United States Congress is trying to preserve records on questions that relate to whether or not the law has been violated by anyone," Biden said, adding: "But, you know, there's been an awful lot of unsavoury stuff that's gone on. And the mere fact … that it occurred in a previous administration doesn't mean Justice Department, if, in fact, there's evidence, shouldn't pursue them. "But I have no evidence of any of that. No one's talking about pursuing President Bush criminally."

Congressional Democrats have issued a flurry of subpoenas this year to senior Bush administration aides as part of a broad inquiry into the authorisation of torturous interrogation tactics used at the Guantanamo Bay prison camp.

Three Bush White House veterans have been held in criminal contempt of congressional committees for refusing to respond to subpoenas in an inquiry on the firing of federal prosecutors: former counsel Harriet Miers, former political adviser Karl Rove, and current chief of staff Josh Bolten. The battle over Miers's and Bolten's testimony is currently before a federal court.

cont'd

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/03/uselections2008.joebiden

[ooglymoogly]

36. Bill Moyers...telling it like it is....always kr nt

[defendandprotect]

41. Granted what you say is absolutely true ...

However, that word and evidence has been out there for at least 30 years ...!!!

Does this sound familiar -- "Two parties with one wing"-?

"The GOP is the express to Auschwitz-

The Democrats are the local --"

DLC co-opting Democratic Party - moving it to the right --

DEMS .. "GOP lite"

????

[femrap]

43. Thank you so much...

Our local pbs has been fundraising for the past 2 Fridays and has NOT aired Bill, my favorite show of the week.

Thank you for the transcript!

[defendandprotect]

44. Highlights from transcript ...

QUOTE --
GLENN GREENWALD: I'm saying they took it to an entirely different level. What we have, in the last eight years, is not merely a case of individual and isolated law breaking. It's a declaration of war on the whole idea of a law itself, on the idea that our political leaders are constrained in any way by the limitations of the American people imposed through our Congress. The rule of law has essentially ceased to exist. And that I do think is quite new.

GLENN GREENWALD: You have. Let's just quickly describe in the most dispassionate terms, as few of euphemisms, as possible, where we are and what has happened over the last eight years. We have a law in place that says it is a felony offense punishable by five years in prison or a $10,000 fine to eavesdrop on American citizens without warrants. We have laws in place that say that it is a felony punishable by decades in prison to subject detainees in our custody to treatment that violates the Geneva Conventions or that is inhumane or coercive.

We know that the president and his top aides have violated these laws. The facts are indisputable that they've done so. And yet as a country, as a political class, we're deciding basically in unison that the president and our highest political officials are free to break the most serious laws that we have, that our citizens have enacted, with complete impunity, without consequences, without being held accountable under the law.

And when you juxtapose that with the fact that we are a country that has probably the most merciless criminal justice system on the planet when it comes to ordinary Americans. We imprison more of our population than any country in the world. We have less than five percent of the world's population. And yet 25 percent almost of prisoners worldwide are inside the United States.

What you have is a two-tiered system of justice where ordinary Americans are subjected to the most merciless criminal justice system in the world. They break the law. The full weight of the criminal justice system comes crashing down upon them. But our political class, the same elites who have imposed that incredibly harsh framework on ordinary Americans, have essentially exempted themselves and the leaders of that political class from the law.

They have license to break the law. That's what we're deciding now as we say George Bush and his top advisors shouldn't be investigated let alone prosecuted for the laws that we know that they've broken. And I can't think of anything more damaging to our country because the rule of law is the lynchpin of everything we have. UNQUOTE --

and ...

QUOTE --

In 2002, as the WASHINGTON POST documented, Nancy Pelosi was brought to the CIA and along with Jane Harman and Bob Graham and Jay Rockefeller, the key Intelligence Committee Senators, were told about the torture program that the CIA had implemented, that we were going to water board and had water boarded certain suspects, that we were going to do things like hypothermia and stress positions and forced nudity and sleep deprivation.

All of the tactics that we've always said characterized tyrannies that used torture. That we were going to start using them ourselves, even though they clearly violate both international and domestic law. And according to all public reports, and they're not denied by the participants, every single Democrat in that session either quietly assented to it or actively approved of it.

GLENN GREENWALD: -participants were certainly complicit? And there are things that he could do. He could appoint, as I said, an independent prosecutor and say take this road to wherever it leads. And if it leads to leading Democrats who you think have criminal liability, so be it. UNQUOTE --

and ...


QUOTE --
EMMA COLEMAN JORDAN: Well, I think clearly the managers who produced this disaster in the middle of this economic storm ought to be given the opportunity to retire. UNQUOTE --

[Dover]

45. The message of the first paragraph about the political and elite class being above the law

while the citizens they are supposed to serve are subjected to harsh penalties (and often for much less severe crimes) will get more play in the upcoming weeks as the film on Nixon/Frost is released, if the oft-shown trailer clip of Nixon telling Frost that "if the president does it, it is not unlawful" is any indication.

However, I haven't seen any signs of fear on the criminals' faces...so perhaps it's all theatre for
the masses.

[deutsey]

50. Unfortunately, I believe it's all theater

Which isn't to say I believe we should quietly give up on trying to hold these tyrants accountable. Just don't expect our political elites to do anything about it. As Dylan sang:

We live in a political world,
Love don't have any place.
We're living in times where men commit crimes
And crime don't have a face

We live in a political world,
Icicles hanging down,
Wedding bells ring and angels sing,
clouds cover up the ground.

We live in a political world,
Wisdom is thrown into jail,
It rots in a cell, is misguided as hell
Leaving no one to pick up a trail.

We live in a political world
Where mercy walks the plank,
Life is in mirrors, death disappears
Up the steps into the nearest bank.

We live in a political world
Where courage is a thing of the past
Houses are haunted, children are unwanted
The next day could be your last.

We live in a political world.
The one we can see and can feel
But there's no one to check, it's all a stacked deck,
We all know for sure that it's real.

We live in a political world
In the cities of lonesome fear,
Little by little you turn in the middle
But you're never why you're here.

We live in a political world
Under the microscope,
You can travel anywhere and hang yourself there
You always got more than enough rope.

We live in a political world
Turning and a'thrashing about,
As soon as you're awake, you're trained to take
What looks like the easy way out.

We live in a political world
Where peace is not welcome at all,
It's turned away from the door to wander some more
Or put up against the wall.

We live in a political world
Everything is hers or his,
Climb into the frame and shout God's name
But you're never sure what it is.

[defendandprotect]

66. Agree, they seem carefree and confident --

and needless to say, imagine very wealthy ...

Maybe Bush II now has more $ than Dad --??

The trail of pain and suffering they have left behind may one day

be undeniable -- even for them.

[66 dmhlt]

51. From us in the deaf/hearing impaired community ...

Thanks for including the transcript link!

(And I'm sure that there are those who just prefer reading it.)

[Dover]

55. Indeed! You're welcome.

And I like to cut and paste direct quotes too. So transcripts are great all around.

Is the original show on PBS available to the hearing impaired?

[sammythecat]

62. "(And I'm sure that there are those who just prefer reading it.)"

I'm one of those. I can hear, but I have much better comprehension while reading thoughts of some depth and complexity rather than watching and listening.

[LiberalEsto]

71. Same here

I understand information better when I read it, than when I hear it.

[defendandprotect]

68. I very much prefer reading transcript ....faster and clearer --

[Enthusiast]

56. Thank you!

Thank you for calling this to our attention.

I still can't see Obama pursuing an investigation of these crimes. I see it as essential but there are simply too many powerful toes that would be stepped on. How many of us expressed outrage at telecom immunity? It did no good. The will of the public be damned.

After Bush and his criminal enterprise our country will never be the same. It would take a second revolution to exorcise the faults created over the last eight years. If Obama fails in any way, even in a small way, we risk having the ideological idiot Palin elected as president. But Obama can't carry out an investigation, no way.

And how about an investigation of events leading up to the economic meltdown? We won't do that one either.

As a nation, we are fucked.

[clear eye]

58. Sen. Chuck Grassley regularly tried

to get the Senate to look into the well-documented corruption in the contracts for Iraq and the Katrina response. I would see his speeches on CSPAN in front of Lieberman's committee, or during regular Senate business, and hear him pleading for action. I ended up nicknaming in my mind "Shut-up, Chuck", because of the dead silence or change of subject from the other Senators. If he weren't so reactionary on social issues I could really like this Republican. As it is, I respect him. This is the sort of Republican I hoped Obama meant when he talked about reaching across the aisle, rather than members of the old power elite.

[Cha]

63. I just started watching Bill Moyers

on Friday nights. I saw Emma Coleman Jordan and was enthalled by the interview. "The markets didn't correct themselves" :(

[Sarah Ibarruri]

64. Bill Moyers is the most amazing man. The program is a diamond!!

I love it and do support PBS.

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

65. watch later

[Venceremos]

72. k&r

[navarth]

73. Just watched it online. Tremendous.

The information is out there!! But the Merkan people are watching reality TV.