Ron Paul tells us where to find the 15 billion for the auto companies

[slipslidingaway]

Adding this in edit...hopefully people can just read the comments and make that a point of discussion instead of bringing up unrelated issues.


"Mr. PAUL.... I do believe in the transition. That is, if we need a bailout for the car companies, even though I don't like the idea, if you could pay for it, take it out of these hundreds of billions of dollars running the American empire around the world. Cut it; bring it home and spend it here, but running up of these deficits is going to do us in, and we are working on the collapse of the dollar. That is what you'd better pay attention to. So pay attention. This is a lot more important than this little $15 billion. To me, it has been a gross distraction of the great harm we've done in the past 6 months."


Links and more in this thread
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3642944&mesg_id=3643453

[defendandprotect]

1. How novel ...American taxpaper dollars to be spent in America ...!!!

[slipslidingaway]

5. Wish more elected officials would make the connection. n/t

[MichiganVote]

2. Gee, our money, our taxes spent on our needs? Can we actually do that/

I'm so trying to overcome my 8 year brainwash.....

[slipslidingaway]

6. We could, but most likely will not :( n/t

[MichiganVote]

8. Gives a whole new meaning to the notion of evolution.

[slipslidingaway]

10. Yes it does. n/t

[sarcasmo]

3. It's not a bad idea, the Iraq war money would take care of the big three for quite some time.

[slipslidingaway]

9. Whatever happened to pushing the idea of the link between

money being spent on the wars and our domestic needs, that seems to fade away quickly.

:(

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

4. Sometimes he pleasantly surprises me. nt

[slipslidingaway]

7. Me too and glad that he also brought atention to the trillions

being spent by the Fed with no oversight, but the 15 billion has all the focus and why he called it a distraction. Not much talk about this...


F bills???

Fed considers issuing debt of its own

http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2008/12/10/pm_fed_debt

"KAI RYSSDAL: There are reports today that the Federal Reserve is talking to Congress about plans to start issuing its own debt. Selling bonds to raise cash. That caught our attention, mostly because the Federal Reserve can pretty much create all the money it needs. But, Marketplace's Steve Henn explains, the financial crisis has already tested the Fed's considerable powers and sent it scrambling for more.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

STEVE HENN: If you could print your own money, why would you borrow it? Alan Blinder is the former vice-chair of the Federal Reserve. He says even though the Fed can create its own money, it doesn't always want to.

ALAN BINDER: As you create money you create the potential financial tinder for inflation in the future.

But recently the Fed's created a lot of new cash. As Wall Street imploded, the Federal Reserve became the lender of last resort. It bought short-term corporate debt and propped up companies like AIG and Citibank. The total tab: $1.2 trillion and rising. At first the Fed financed these bailouts by borrowing close to $500 billion from the U.S. Treasury. But in November Treasury cried uncle.

BINDER: There is a legal limit on how much money the Treasury is allowed to borrow -- the national debt ceiling.

And Treasury was about to hit it. Since then the Fed's had to create new money to finance new bailouts. And economist Alan Meltzer says in the long run that's a problem..."

[slipslidingaway]

11. Other speeches from that day...

move your mouse over the names on the left or use the summary on the right.

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/69850&date=2008-12-10

[provis99]

12. it says something when the libertarian Paul

makes more sense than these Southern Republican assholes who are still fighting the Civil War.

[slipslidingaway]

13. Well he has been talking about this waste of tax payer dollars

for awhile... but we have to protect our interests.

:(

[FLAprogressive]

14. A broken clock is right twice a day. If people here actually knew about his record, they'd realize..

...that he is a far-right extremist.

[slipslidingaway]

15. ...hopefully people can just read the comments

and make that a point of discussion instead of bringing up unrelated issues.

We can either continue to try and justify spending money on unnecessary wars or help the citizens at home.

Or we can give it to the financial firms :)

[ozone_man]

28. Except that he's right much more than twice a day.

What Democrats do you know other than Kucinich who will even touch this subject or our Imperialism around the world? Or outsourcing of manufacturing jobs that started under Clinton? These are the the big issues of the day that threaten to destroy the country. $15 billion is a miniscule amount compared to the many trillions that we're being robbed of right in front of our eyes.

He was out front years ago warning about The Fed and their monetary policy, and now we learn that they won't even tell us who they lent $2 trillion to. We don't have the right to know according to them. One day we'll wise up and abolish the Fed, but we'll probably be bankrupt by the time we finally do.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. He's right about imperialism and outsourcing in an isolationist xenophobic way

Kucinich and liberals dislike the idea of globalization because they believe that it is a race to the bottom for people of all nations. Ron Paul sees it as white peoples' jobs in America going to non-white people overseas.

[Sex Pistol]

89. Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich: The two most honest politicians in Washington.

And that is why no one in their respective caucuses takes them seriously.

[angryfirelord]

44. Incorrect

He's a libertarian. That's quite different from being far-right.

[KakistocracyHater]

74. he's wickety/whack when the issue is birth control

I have read of that, I consider it his 'blind spot', but I would corral him, so to speak, in an area that I consider good for him & him for it. I watch the # on military waste & flinch, he's got it exactly-we NEED to get OUT of Bush's Messes, they cost too much in our people, our money, & our infrastructure.

[nichomachus]

16. I don't think Ron Paul has any special political wisdom

There have been a lot of people saying for a long time that the money wasted in Iraq and Afghanistan could be better spent at home.

The National Priorities Project has had a website up for years showing exactly how the money could better be spent

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/costofwar_home

Ron Paul has the problems right, but most of the solutions wrong.

As I've said before, he's like a doctor who correctly diagnoses your appendicitis, but wants to cure it by sacrificing a chicken.

[slipslidingaway]

18. In this case he is speaking of the hundreds of bases around the

world, not just the Iraq/Afghanistan wars.

Who are the other members of Congress trying to get this point across?

There must be others that address this issue???

The point was really that we are spending so much time discussing the 15 billion for the auto companies and are not seeing the big picture. He also mentioned the 2 trillion dollars that the Fed has put into play recently and for which Bloomberg News filed a lawsuit to gain access to the information.

In order to discuss solutions, we need to correctly diagnose the problem. We can have arguments about how to spend the money, but first we need the money.

:)


America's Empire of Bases
by Chalmers Johnson

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0115-08.htm

"As distinct from other peoples, most Americans do not recognize -- or do not want to recognize -- that the United States dominates the world through its military power. Due to government secrecy, our citizens are often ignorant of the fact that our garrisons encircle the planet. This vast network of American bases on every continent except Antarctica actually constitutes a new form of empire -- an empire of bases with its own geography not likely to be taught in any high school geography class. Without grasping the dimensions of this globe-girdling Baseworld, one can't begin to understand the size and nature of our imperial aspirations or the degree to which a new kind of militarism is undermining our constitutional order..."

[ColbertWatcher]

67. Well done, thank you for posting this. n/t

[formercia]

17. First on the list: Camp Bondsteel

http://88.80.13.160/wiki/The_End_of_the_Affair%3F_The_BND%2C_CIA_and_Kosovo%27s_Deep_State

--snip--

Kosovo: A European Narco State

When Kosovo proclaimed its "independence" in February, the Western media hailed the provocative dismemberment of Serbia, a move that completed the destruction of Yugoslavia by the United States, the European Union and NATO, as an exemplary means to bring "peace and stability" to the region.

If by "peace" one means impunity for rampaging crime syndicates or by "stability," the freedom of action with no questions asked by U.S. and NATO military and intelligence agencies, not to mention economic looting on a grand scale by freewheeling multinational corporations, then Kosovo has it all!

From its inception, the breakaway Serb province has served as a militarized outpost for Western capitalist powers intent on spreading their tentacles East, encircling Russia and penetrating the former spheres of influence of the ex-Soviet Union. As a template for contemporary CIA destabilization operations in Georgia and Ukraine, prospective EU members and NATO "partners," Kosovo should serve as a warning for those foolish enough to believe American clichs about "freedom" or the dubious benefits of "globalization."

Camp Bondsteel, located on rolling hills and farmland near the city of Ferizaj/Urosevac,is the largest U.S. military installation on the European continent. Visible from space, in addition to serving as an NSA listening post pointed at Russia and as the CIA's operational hub in the Balkans and beyond, some observers believe that Andreas J.'s notebook may have contained information that Camp Bondsteel continues to serve as a CIA "black site." One motive for rolling up the BND intelligence operation may have been U.S. fears that this toxic information would become public, putting paid U.S. claims that it no longer kidnaps and tortures suspected "terrorists."

--snip--

[slipslidingaway]

20. Thank you...

"...Camp Bondsteel was constructed by the 94th Engineer Construction Battalion together with the private Kellogg, Brown and Root Corporation (KBR) under the direction of the Army Corps of Engineers. KBR is also the prime contractor for the operation of the camp. The camp is built mainly of wooden, semi permanent SEA (South East Asia) huts and is surrounded by a 2.5 meter high earthen wall. The camp occupies 955 acres (3.86 km2) of land<1>. To construct the base two hills were lopped off and the valley between them was filled with the resulting material...


Controversies

The United States Army has been criticised for using the base as a detention facility, and for the conditions faced by the detainees there. In November 2005, Alvaro Gil-Robles, the human rights envoy of the Council of Europe, described the camp as a "smaller version of Guantanamo" following a visit. In response, the US Army stated that there were no secret detention facilities in the Camp. While there is a facility on Camp Bondsteel that was used in the past to hold detainees from the war in Kosovo, Turkey, Iraq, and Afganistan. The German paper Weltwoche, writes;(A German report by the Berlin Institute for European Policy, produced last year on behalf of the German army)"...is particularly critical of the role of the US, which had obstructed European investigations and which had been opened up to political extortion by the existence of secret CIA detention centres in the grounds of Camp Bondsteel in Kosovo...”<2> There is much speculation as to the full role of the CIA and Germany's BND in Kosovo and the highly suspicious activities of both NATO's KFOR as well as The United Nations contingent UNMIK..."

[ColbertWatcher]

19. HEY! Ron Paul! What about doing something for your own damn district!?

No one listens to this guy and this is an example of the many reasons why.

STFU Ronpaul.

[slipslidingaway]

21. 737 U.S. Military Bases = Global Empire

Let's not complain then about not having any money for the people at home.

:shrug:

http://www.alternet.org/story/47998

"The following is excerpted from Chalmers Johnson's new book, "Nemesis: The Last Days of the American Republic" (Metropolitan Books).

Once upon a time, you could trace the spread of imperialism by counting up colonies. America's version of the colony is the military base; and by following the changing politics of global basing, one can learn much about our ever more all-encompassing imperial "footprint" and the militarism that grows with it...


Using data from fiscal year 2005, the Pentagon bureaucrats calculated that its overseas bases were worth at least $127 billion -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic products of most countries -- and an estimated $658.1 billion for all of them, foreign and domestic (a base's "worth" is based on a Department of Defense estimate of what it would cost to replace it). During fiscal 2005, the military high command deployed to our overseas bases some 196,975 uniformed personnel as well as an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employed an additional 81,425 locally hired foreigners..."

[ColbertWatcher]

22. Fuck Ronpaul. He doesn't help his own damn district and now he wants ...

... people to listen to him now? This is just another plea for attention.

Ronpaul is an attention whore of Naderian proportions.

[slipslidingaway]

23. ...hopefully people can just read the comments and make that a

point of discussion instead of bringing up unrelated issues.

[ColbertWatcher]

24. What he has done in his career is not unrelated. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

25. I meant related to the issue in the OP, spending hundreds of

billions on overseas bases, which is rarely questioned, when we are spending so much time discussing the auto bailout.

I'm not familiar with what he does or does not do for his district.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. "I'm not familiar with what he does or does not do for his district." Yes you are.

He's the representative of the Texas district that includes Galveston.

You know, the place that was ignored after Ike.

He is able to talk now and get media attention repeating someone else's ideas, but where was that leadership when Galveston needed it?

Ronpaul is hoping that his co-opting of Obama's defining policy might be enough to get people to forget how he failed his own district.

Like everyone else in his party, Ronpaul has no ideas that extend further than his own nose.

[tuckessee]

35. I assume the voters of his district are aware of what he does and doesn't do as well.

So why do they keep reelecting him time and time again?

Considering the amount of coverage he got during his Prez run, there's probably no way any thinking person in his district can't say they aren't aware of him and some of what he stands for. Yet he won again.

[ColbertWatcher]

36. Hmm.

According to Wikip*dia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_14th_Congressional_district#2008) he ran unopposed (there was no Dem candidate).

Yet he won again.

True, he won by 70%-30%. But, according to Wikip*dia again 100,000 fewer people voted in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_14th_Congressional_district#2008">2008 than in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas%27s_14th_Congressional_district#2006">2006.

I wonder where those people went, why they didn't vote in 2008 and if they were around to vote in 2008, who they would have voted for?

Odd, usually more people vote in presidential election years than in "off years."

Gee, where did all those people go?

[tuckessee]

39. Why didn't the Dems run anybody against him?

Seems to me, according to your logic, he'd be a cinch to beat what with his being loony and doing nothing but bad things for his district for the last decade.

But you know the real reason is because they know no Dem has a chance against- Dr. Paul. That's why they won't waste money on a Don Quixotic candidate.

[ColbertWatcher]

40. I don't know why the Dems didn't run anyone in Ronpaul's dist. Maybe no one was left after Ike? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

41. "Ronpaul is hoping that his co-opting of Obama's defining policy"

still saying the same thing 24 years later...but in your eyes he is co-opting Obama's policy???

But you "forced" me to use The Google :)


Congressional Record — US House of Representatives September 20, 1984

"...Spending, taxes, regulations, monetary inflation, invasion of our privacy, welfarism to both the rich and the poor, military spending, and foreign adventurism around the world will one day precipitate a crisis that will truly test our will to live in a free society..."


No sense trying to get the discussion back on track...

[slipslidingaway]

45. Forgot the link to the above quote...

http://mises.org/story/2891

[tuckessee]

26. The real question is why is no Dem saying this?

Kucinich is the only one who would say something like this and we know how he and his supporters were labeled as loons and losers.

[slipslidingaway]

27. You would think that would be a question we should be asking...

thank you! It is so easy and convenient to dismiss all ideas when someone has a "label"


Somewhat related...how do you explore controversial ideas in between commercials, about 3 minutes.

Noam Chomsky on "Concision" in the US Media
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cceC3DeFcY

[ColbertWatcher]

31. You know full well Dems have been saying this, bt the GOP-controlled media ignore us. n/t

[slipslidingaway]

42. Maybe you can provide some links where they speak out

against the overseas bases and the 2 trillion recently spent by the Fed, the subject of the recent Bloomberg News lawsuit.

I certainly would be curious to know of the people you reference.

[tuckessee]

56. Yes, links or quotes would be nice.

I haven't seen any memorable quotes from Dems saying basically what Ron Paul said either in the media or on DU. Share them with us.

[autorank]

84. Because the donors would have a fit

"Defense" or more accurately, needless preparation for disastrous wars is a major
part of The Money Party financial scam. It's big bucks and you know who gets those,
candidates and elected officials. :sarcasm: Of course, those donations don't buy votes.
It's not legalized bribery as many of us say. How intemperate of us.

The only real campaign reform includes, front and center, public financed campaigns without
any outside money.

[slipslidingaway]

29. Thanks for the R's...

IMO we desperately need to look past the messenger and listen to the message.

[yurbud]

32. kick

[Dover]

33. There are TRILLIONS in offshore tax havens. Why don't we simply collect it?

Well okay. It's not that simple what with the shell games and lack of tranparency, but
certainly enough could be collected in unpaid taxes sitting overseas to fuel this economy
for awhile.

[ColbertWatcher]

37. Because Randian morans like Ronpaul don't believe tax havens exist!

If it isn't in the Constitution, they believe, it doesn't exist!

[Pale Blue Dot]

34. Tell Ron Paul we need to raise taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

See how he feels about that, the selfish prick.

[ColbertWatcher]

38. Ronpaul is an attention whore. Where was his concern after Ike? n/t

[angryfirelord]

43. In case you didn't notice

People in Ron Paul's district REQUESTED that FEMA aid would be blocked. Why? Because FEMA sucks balls.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul275.html

[ColbertWatcher]

48. LOL! You cite Lewrockwell!? LOL! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

46. He is listed as a cosponsor on this bill...

???

H.R. 6958: 2007-2008 Hurricane Ike Tax Relief Act of 2008

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6958


The original post was not about Ike anyway.

[ColbertWatcher]

49. "The original post was not about Ike anyway." So, his silence on Ike is an isolated incident? n/t

[slipslidingaway]

52. In all these posts you have not addressed the hundreds of

billions spent overseas and the trillions spent by the Fed, while our elected officials distract us with the 15 billion auto bailout.

Talk about silence and distraction from the topic.

:eyes:

[ColbertWatcher]

64. Ronpaul is an attention whore, who only speaks out when it's convenient.

Like after other people spoke out first, people like Obama, for instance.

Ronpaul hates all forms of government, which is why he didn't do a fucking thing for his distract after Ike hit, but doesn't seem to mind his free healthcare. And why he (so heroically) repeats slogans worthy of Grover Norquist.

Ronpaul is an attention whore.

[slipslidingaway]

70. Not sure what you think Paul has copied from Obama...

you seem more intent on smearing him then anything else.

I posted the 1984 speech where he talked of the military spending and "foreign adventurism around the world will one day precipitate a crisis that will truly test our will to live in a free society..."

So I guess he copied this from Obama.

:crazy:


Here we are, the tax payers hand over 700 billion to bail out the financial companies, on the advice of our political party and you call one of the people who warned of this an attention whore.

[KakistocracyHater]

75. but try not to let your hostility sabotauge his message

that is the thing, take this advice from a 'hater'-my screen name being truthful. Perhaps you should try to run for his seat.

[slipslidingaway]

57. Fed Refuses to Disclose Recipients of $2 Trillion

So who else is talking about this and cutting back on overseas bases to spend the money at home, or do you think it is not important???

"You know full well Dems have been saying this, bt the GOP-controlled media ignore us. n/t"

Who are they...links???


http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aGvwttDayiiM&refer=home

"Dec. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve refused a request by Bloomberg News to disclose the recipients of more than $2 trillion of emergency loans from U.S. taxpayers and the assets the central bank is accepting as collateral.

Bloomberg filed suit Nov. 7 under the U.S. Freedom of Information Act requesting details about the terms of 11 Fed lending programs, most created during the deepest financial crisis since the Great Depression.

The Fed responded Dec. 8, saying it’s allowed to withhold internal memos as well as information about trade secrets and commercial information. The institution confirmed that a records search found 231 pages of documents pertaining to some of the requests..."

[ColbertWatcher]

65. DailyKos linked to a story about Barney Frank.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/12/5/154345/192/428/669793

Why are you making such a big deal about the anti-government types such as Grover Norquist and Ronpaul?

If Ronpaul hates government so much, why does he work for the government? Why doesn't he just get a job in the private sector?

We all know Norquist's feeling toward government, at least he's not a coward like Ronpaul. Why can't Ronpaul be honest about why he wants all those cuts?

[slipslidingaway]

68. Thanks and that is a start, although he talks of cutting weapons

systems in the DK diary, no mention of the overseas bases or the 2 trillion by the Fed?

And there is no link to Frank's exact quotes that I could find in the diary.

While I am certainly no expert on Paul and do not agree with many of his policies, I think he believes that people are being taxed too much and that the government wastes a good amount of that money. He would rather people have more freedom to spend their wages and less intervention by the Federal government and more rights given back to the states.

One large scam is the SS Trust Fund to the tune of over 2 trillion that has been spent for other purposes, of course we will here in the not too distant future that SS will run out of money.

I am not in favor of doing away with SS, but all too often the government takes working people's money for one purpose, uses it for another and then turns right back around and tries to collect the same money again from working people.

And it would be nice to have a dialogue without the name calling... as for being honest why can't more politicians try and expose the fraud.

The financial mess has been building for years and many knew it was coming, for our politicians to say they did not have enough time to review other solutions and we needed to pass the 700 billion bailout bill now is a bit too dishonest for me.

[ColbertWatcher]

69. "I think he believes that people are being taxed too much" Um ...

... what anyone needs to know about Ronpaul is a Libertarian and an "Constitutional originalist".

His Libertarianism means he doesn't believe there should be a government and his originalism means that if a government should exist, it should only do what is explicitly written in the Constitution--nothing more. For people like Ronpaul, the originalists, the Constitution is a dead document, frozen in the 18th century.

He cherry-picked ideas from the man of the hour, Obama, to ride his coattails (as Dr. Colbert would say) and is only now speaking out.

The joke is that the reason why Ronpaul didn't want money to help his district after Ike was because hurricanes aren't mentioned in the Constitution.

Ronpaul is a joke and an attention whore.

[slipslidingaway]

71. Parts of his 1984 speech he copied from Obama LOL ...

and he cosponsored a bill for Ike relief that never made it out of committee.

[ColbertWatcher]

72. Ronpaul is an attention whore. Everything he does is for attention not for others, but for himself.

Ronpaul is not a leader; he is a follower (and an attention whore).

Look, this has been interesting, but it's not longer worth my time.

[slipslidingaway]

80. Not worth my time either, esp. when you cannot back up

your statement and try to change the topic.

But if you find those links, I still would be interested in reading.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4643675&mesg_id=4653826

[Alexander]

85. No worries. This one isn't interested in an actual discussion.

BTW I agree completely with your posts on Dr. Paul.

I wouldn't vote for him, but he is right when it comes to certain issues.

Unfortunately some people would rather shoot the messenger than read the message.

[slipslidingaway]

86. Thank you, your comments are very much appreciated, we need

to listen to message more often and ignore the messenger.

The one thing about Ron Paul is that you can read a speech of his and easily identify the points on which you agree or disagree...I became familiar with Ron Paul when I started to paying attention to the markets during the Greenspan era.


Jon Stewart and Greenspan - September 2007

http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=102970


:hi:

[Odin2005]

47. I don't give a shit what that Libertarian nutjob thinks. Fuck Him.

Libertarian economics = 100% unadulterated BS. We are having deflation and they are still screaming about hyperinflation and are telling people to buy gold. Fuck that shit.

The amount of loony Libertarian thinking that has infected the American Left is disturbing. We are Keynesians, not Libertardian Austrian School fruit-loops.

[ColbertWatcher]

50. Beautifully put, thank you! n/t

[slipslidingaway]

54. Crazy people were buying gold in the 200 and 300 range then

lightening their positions when gold became popular, not sure who you were reading at the time.

http://stockcharts.com/charts/historical/djiagold1980.html

[slipslidingaway]

62. In addition many of the same people were selling their stocks

in 2000 and 2007, they certainly are nuts.

[Odin2005]

78. The point went right over your head.

Anyone with a brain knows that 2000 and 2007 were bubble years.

[slipslidingaway]

81. Buying gold or gold stocks in the 200-300 range was not crazy...

and all those people who lost money in 2000 and 2007 do not have a brain according to you.

:(

Or maybe they had faith in the wrong people.

Again this was not the topic in the original post.

Ironic that Paul said the 15 billion bailout discussions were a distraction from the larger issues...that is just what has happened here.

[closeupready]

51. A friend and I got a laugh about this 'spend your way out of debt-induced recession' media mentality

today. I told him how I'd noticed the talking heads going on about the fact that consumers are drowning in debt, and at the same time, the government is trying to loosen credit markets so that we can all keep on spending money we don't have. I mean, it's insanity, it makes no sense, but they don't get it. He laughed spontaneously and said, yeah, I noticed the same thing.

[slipslidingaway]

55. That sums it up nicely, repeat the same mistakes in hopes of

a different outcome.

:)

[Swamp Rat]

53. Stop making WMDs... wherever they are.

[slipslidingaway]

58. Nice :) hope that is not a direct quote, but most likely it is. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

59. Yes, it is a direct quote.

[slipslidingaway]

60. I thought as much, Bush has been wonderful :(((

just collatereal damage, an accurate and sad picture.

:cry:

[Swamp Rat]

61. Sorry to be such a Debbie Downer,

But that fucking monster is still president, and he will attempt to do his very worst before he leaves.

[slipslidingaway]

63. Now I'm going to have nightmares with that picture...

and you are not being a downer, just portraying the damage realistically.

We should not ignore or move forward until we face the destruction left in our wake.

[slipslidingaway]

66. " You know full well Dems have been saying this, bt the GOP-

controlled media ignore us. n/t"

Post # 31 above.


I would be very interested in reading other statements. If the media is not reporting the statements, as I doubt they reported the below statements, then a link to their speech on the floor would be welcome.


Fed Refuses to Disclose Recipients of $2 Trillion

"Dec. 12 (Bloomberg) -- The Federal Reserve refused a request by Bloomberg News to disclose the recipients of more than $2 trillion of emergency loans from U.S. taxpayers and the assets the central bank is accepting as collateral..."


Ron Paul...

http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=8906731

"...The Federal Reserve has literally created over $2 trillion here in the last several months, at least in obligations, and that is outside the realm of the Congress. We don't even audit the Federal Reserve. They create this money, and when the Fed Chairman comes before our committee and we ask, well, where did you dispose of this $2 trillion that you have created recently, he says well, it is not your business. That is not necessary. Under the law, he doesn't even have to tell us..."


http://www.c-spanarchives.org/congress/?q=node/77531&id=8906731


"Mr. PAUL.... I do believe in the transition. That is, if we need a bailout for the car companies, even though I don't like the idea, if you could pay for it, take it out of these hundreds of billions of dollars running the American empire around the world. Cut it; bring it home and spend it here, but running up of these deficits is going to do us in, and we are working on the collapse of the dollar. That is what you'd better pay attention to. So pay attention. This is a lot more important than this little $15 billion. To me, it has been a gross distraction of the great harm we've done in the past 6 months."

[dysfunctional press]

73. what domestic programs do libertarians support spending tax dollars on?

:shrug:

[mdmc]

76. border patrol for one

[dysfunctional press]

79. i guess we could put people to work as a human fence along the mexican & canadian borders...

:shrug:

[slipslidingaway]

82. The first step would be a move towards not spending the money,

then we can argue over how it should be allocated.

:)

[dysfunctional press]

83. personally, i'm all for spending the money that's needed to keep a decent quality of life for all...

and we're nowhere near that yet.

[PeaceNikki]

87. Ron Paul is an insane whackjob.

[slipslidingaway]

88. Your comment on the OP was invaluable. n/t

[PeaceNikki]

90. Fuck, are we being graded on our posts "value" now?

Is this a bell-curve thing?

[deaniac21]

91. I wonder what Lyndon LaRouche has to say?

[slipslidingaway]

92. Heck if I know, but I did find what he said about derivatives

back in the early 1990's interesting, which I found when looking for a description of notional vs. cash values.

One does not have to accept the whole person to agree with a portion of what they are saying...or we can continue to shoot the messengers.

:shrug:


http://american_almanac.tripod.com/derivcw.htm

"...a sales or transaction tax on the turnover of ``financial derivative'' securities or financial instruments. Each time such a security or instrument is traded, he said, it should be taxed at 0.1 percent of its face value, or, as it is called in the derivatives trade, its notional principal amount.

LaRouche's tax would have two purposes. First, it would help to bring under back under control markets which have careened off into outer space, by identifying the kinds of practices which have been swept under the regulators' rug for all too long. Second, the tax might raise between $60 and $80 billion in federal tax revenues in its first year of application. That would be a very handsome sum for the U.S. government, even if it is going to be a self-liquidating kind of tax.

Talk to most people about ``derivatives'' and you pretty soon discover that they have no idea what they are. Still less do they have any comprehension that the financial practices which have developed, since especially 1981-82, represent one of the most serious threats to the very existence of their country and the human species....

That's where derivatives come in. While billions of people go hungry, and millions are out of work, the volume of trading in financial derivatives by some measures has grown eightfold since 1987;

...Taken as a whole, the financial derivatives market, orchestrated by financiers, operates with the vortical properties of a powerful hurricane. It is so huge and packs such a large momentum, that it sucks up the overwhelming majority of the capital and cash that enters or already exists in the economy.