Maybe UAW members should agree to pay cuts

[donheld]

when Congress agrees to the same percentage of pay cuts.

[robinlynne]

1. And, as the preident of the UAW said, all of the other people at the bargaining table, including

parts suppliers, dealers, management.....NOne of them have been asked to take pay cuts by the repugs, only the union workers.....

[Hannah Bell]

6. That's because the auto corpos already forced cuts from suppliers, ala Delphi.

[StreetKnowledge]

2. Forget chopping their pay

Just reduce their benefits. If you got GM to the same level as the import makers you'd be saving GM ~25% of their labor costs, and they'd still be well-paid. I'm a union supporter, but the amount auto workers get paid is ludicrous.

And since the f***ing Republicans are willing to kill GM to destroy the UAW, I say everyone who supports the domestic auto industry tell these fools to get Detroit some help. If they go into bankruptcy without help from Congress, the result will be Chapter 7 liquidation - which means ~400,000 unemployed UAW members and probably 4-5 times that number of those losing jobs at other industries - a big bunch of pension requirements dumped onto the government and since car supply will drop, you'll get a big inflationary pressure to boot. Turning a recession into a depression. They are oh-so-willing to help their rich ass friends on f***ing Wall Street, but when it comes to Detroit, nah, let 'em burn.

Which costs more jobs, jackasses?

Everyone involved in this - GM management, UAW membership and leadership and Congress - all need to smarten up. It's getting desperate now, and if GM sinks trust me everyone will feel it. And the feeling will be really horrible. How would ya like the imports owning 100% of the US market? Wake the f*** up, Congress, and protect our jobs instead of your motherf***ing friends on Wall Street.

[thunder rising]

5. You lost me at: the amount auto workers get paid is ludicrous??? $28/hr + $10/hr benies is what?

[StreetKnowledge]

9. Uh, the number I read is $73 an hour, not $38

That's nuts. The import guys get about $50 an hour. You think someone can't live on $28/hour plus benefits? If it was $38 an hour, I don't think GM would be in this mess, and a subcompact car would not cost $15,000.

[silverojo]

12. Hell, if I got $28 an hour, I'd be doing the happy dance

Unions are a necessity, but union members do get paid obscene amounts of money. (Though not the $70+/hour the Repukes claim.)

I think the CEOs' salaries should be cut, first. Let them lead by example. ;)

[thunder rising]

15. A lot of concern here too. If this were indeed true there would be no trouble growing unions

Fact is they get what they deserve, and they work for that.

[gizmo1979]

21. I'm union and I

make 20 bucks an hr.That's just below the average for a machinist in the USA.I don't think that's obscene.

[NoPasaran]

23. The only union members who make "obscene" amounts of money

Are a very few at the highest levels of professional sports and entertainment. And seeing the sweet deals that corporate bosses arrange for themselves, I don't begrudge even them a penny.

Any worker who suggests that another worker's pay should be cut is only cutting his own throat.

[thunder rising]

14. hmmm...a lot of concern here. Thanks but your OPINION has been preempted with the truth.

[mmonk]

19. Aren't retired worker benefits included in that figure which skews

the numbers perception? Current employees aren't getting that, are they?

[Trajan]

24. That is a nonsense number ....

They are folding in the costs for RETIRED workers .... Remove that, and their pay is on par with the carpetbagging foreign auto manufacturers that have used TAXPAYER FUNDS to set up shop in southern states WITHOUT unions, in order to have themselves a sweet sweet deal on OUR dime ... AND to break the unions down ..... And you are helping them .....

I would also point out that the Toyota's and Honda's of the world are on the whole MORE expensive than their domestic counterparts, so the whole 'subcompact car would not cost $15,000' canard is a red herring and a false assertion ....

GM is not 'in this mess' because their workers make too much : It is in this mess because the WHOLE ECONOMY is down ....

UAW workers CAN pay their bills, buy cars and pay mortgages .... The problem is all the NON UNION workers do not make enough to pay their bills, buy cars and pay mortgages ...

The problem is NOT UAW workers making too much, it is NON-UAW workers making too little ...

Your whole assertion is a bunch of right wing hogwash .... suitable only for the floor of a sty ...

[aquart]

8. No. You are NOT a "union supporter."

But nice try.

[StreetKnowledge]

10. Common Sense

Tell me, is $73 an hour not crazy?

[fairfaxvadem]

11. You're pretty late to the party on that....

No UAW worker on ANY assembly line makes $150,000 a year, friend. That was a nice piece of bull put out by a NYT reporter, based on info provided by GM, et al, that IF you took: all wages paid, all benefits paid, ALL retiree payments of pension and healthcare, and THEN divided by the amount of current hours worked by legitimate on the job workers, oh, gee, that's $70+ hour.

Truth: Older contract workers under UAW make average of $28/hour plus benefits. New contract workers, as of 2006 or so, make average of $14/hour plus benefits - same as the average of Toyota, Honda, etc, in the US. The difference is: the foreign companies have not operated long enough in the US to even have any retirees, AND, they rely heavily on temporary workers. There have already been a lot of layoffs in these "foreign" assembly lines in the South, despite their home countries pouring billions into these companies to keep them viable -go read the foreign business press on occasion, it's enlightening. ALL automakers, across the board, have experienced 30-40 percent decline in sales. Period. All of them, not just Detroit. Look at your monthly take home pay and your bills. Can you meet all your obligations with a 30% cut in pay? Many can't. And businesses can't. And all the suppliers on a razor thin margin can't.

The foreign automakers also have benefited from host countries who have subsidized their R&D, their pensions and their healthcare in their home countries. Germany still makes a LOT of cars. So does Japan. And Canada. The same cars are made right across the border up north, where wages are $17/hour on average, with no healthcare or pension concerns, AND they get an educated work force.

Food for thought: the only reason there are foreign automaker assembly lines here is because of the competition of Detroit. Period. You remove the competition and 1 of 2 things happen: plant workers in Alabama, Georgia, etc., dont' stay at $14/hour. No reason to if you aren't worried about the UAW organizing anymore - and in Right to Work states, those wages go to $10 or $8 overnight, no questions asked. OR, the foreign automakers say, "shit, no more competition, forget about this plant. I'll take the loss, go to Mexico or Korea, or hell, back to Germany where there is a stable healthcare and pension system in place that works for us, too. Let the US become an entire import-only country and NO automobiles will ever be assembled here again.

Hope you all like those scenarios.

Cheers.

[FlaGranny]

16. Excellent post, my friend.

You've got it nailed.

[Trajan]

25. Amazing how many DUers can suck on the Right Wing teet ....

And smack their lips in righteous satisfaction, even though the milk is sour ...

(Sorry for that awful visual analogy, but that is where it took me ... LMFAO)

I wish DUers would STOP promoting such blatant RW propaganda here in our hallowed halls ...

[nosmokes]

3. they've taken pay cuts and other

concessions over the past few years and frankly I don't think the UAW should give back another red cent until ecec pay is tied to a percentage of dividends(profits) and wages. Getting millions for building cars no one wants and bnkrupting the company don't fly with me.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. Fair is fair. k+r, n/t

[TripleKatPad]

7. I don't think that's the fair formula

To be really fair, let the Senators who voted against the unions live on the low-wage pay, with no benefits, that they insist auto workers should live on.

Now, THAT would be a fair compromise IMHO.

[1]

13. take a pay cut? keep you job. don't take a pay cut? lose your job.

hummm... *right palm and left palm go up and down*

whatta going to do?

[gizmo1979]

22. It's not about the pay!

Pay and benefits are under 10 percent of the cost of the car.They could take half the pay and the problems would still be there.Foreign cars are no cheaper.If the UAW thought pay cuts would save the company they would do it.If it meant saving the company I'll bet there are enough people that would work for free for a while to get the company back on it's feet.

[FlaGranny]

17. How many citizens of this country

can take a large pay cut and keep paying the mortgage? That sounds like a way to insure skyrocketing foreclosures and additional severe damage to the economy. Few families can get by on $14 an hour. It takes two people making that much to make life even barely livable.

[TWiley]

18. Maybe white collar workers should agree to pay cuts.

[donheld]

20. kick