Hey, Senator, check out the 43 mpg Ford Fusion hybrid. And while you're at it, shove it up your ...

[Bozita]

... traitorous ass.

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081213/OPINION03/812130320/1149/AUTO01

Saturday, December 13, 2008
Scott Burgess
Hey, Senator, check out the 43 mpg Ford Fusion hybrid


LOS ANGELES -- If I had my way, carmakers would create vehicles that run off of hot air. It's the kind of development that might make the U.S. Congress useful.

Really, the top U.S. legislative body should have convened in Los Angeles this week so its members could have seen the 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid in action.

Rarely do you get the opportunity to see a midsize sedan average more than 43 mpg in city driving. Actually, no one has seen it before -- not even the distinguished gentleman and senator from Alabama -- but the new gas-electric hybrid developed by Ford does just that.

While it takes a little coaxing to eke out those kind of mileage numbers -- hypermiling, the act of stretching every drop of gas, can be as tedious as listening to federal bloviation -- I was able to average 37 mpg overall in a mix of city and highway driving. That's a real world kind of number everyone should notice.

Admittedly, the EPA has not put its final stamp of approval on the city and highway numbers (and Ford has its fingers crossed it might hit 40 mpg), the Green Oval will proudly tell anyone within earshot that its all-new hybrid obtains "at least" six miles per gallon better than the Toyota Camry hybrid in the city. The estimated 37 mpg on the highway is nothing to sneeze at either. All that for a car that will start under $28,000.

When the Fusion hybrid arrives next spring, it will become the first two-mode hybrid car created by an American-based company. Congress should note that it had no hand with the development of this vehicle -- it takes years of hard work, actual thinking and wrenching to produce a new model and this particular vehicle is the result of planning that took place in President Bush's first term.

Since then, Ford has continued to improve its hybrid system, and the Fusion will offer more advanced technology than even the 2009 Ford Escape hybrid.

more...

[MH1]

1. arriving next spring?

Hmmm, that might be my next car. I'm starting to worry about my 11 year old Taurus. (I don't drive many miles per week so mileage isn't a reason for me to rush out and buy a hybrid, that's why I don't have one yet)

[Gregorian]

2. 43 mpg is crap mileage.

There's a garage in San Francisco that's retrofitting Priuses with electric motors to get 100 mpg.

I know people who were getting over 50 mpg back in the late 70s with just a regular small diesel engine with a turbocharger.

This is why we're in trouble. Our concept of frugal and efficient is still out of focus.

[retread]

3. You got one that runs on crap? You did say crap mileage didn't you? n/t

[Deja Q]

20. Just strap a cow to the gas cap and force feed it hay

You get a free milkshake while on the freeway too.

:smoke:

[Schema Thing]

4. 43 is awesome

It's not the thrill of going from 40 to 80 mpg that this planet needs, rather it's the relief that going from 18 to 30 mpg will bring that is important.


But yeah, any daily trips that are under 30 or 40 miles or so, should be done all electric. "MPG" should not even enter the equation for probably 70% of all individual vehicle miles driven in America.

[Gregorian]

7. You just made my point.

All trips are usually under those mileages. It's broadly recognized by people who are in the business of engineering that 40 mpg is horrible.

And as for the remainder of vehicles, there won't be any increase in mileage. This is something that doesn't get much notice. How do contractors pull their backhoes around? What about roofers going to the dump with loads of old shingles? These are all vehicles that will be getting 10-20 mpg.

Every person who is driving around (doing stuff I might add that could very well be done on a bike with a trailer) should be getting 100 mpg. No less.


I should add that most of what I say on this subject is considered treasonous in America. We're so fucking fat and lazy here. I just watch in dismay at the whole mess. But we're getting what we deserve now. It's very sad. And the worst part is what we've done to the poor planet. One of these days we'll actually have a dialog on the real subjects that need discussing. But if you think this subject is full of triggers, don't even think about the others.

[Schema Thing]

21. Heavy equipment can absolutely go electric and hybrid

...and hydraulic hybrids are already being used to great benefit as well.


Don't forget that saving 20% of the total fuel consumption of a 10 mpg vehicle is saving a hell of a lot more fuel than an equal percentage savings in a 50 mpg vehicle.


I think we agree in the basics, but once you start talking plug-in vehicles, hybrid or otherwise, the same vehicle can get 50, 75, 100, 300 mpg depending on the length of the trip before a pure electrical charge can be had... at some point, mpg is not the relevant measurement. All wonderful, but let's not forget that there are huge gains to be made in the big, high consumption end of the market too.

[Gregorian]

23. Not at the present time. And most likely not in the near future.

It's one thing T Boone Pickens has right. Large transportation is not capable of being moved by electric power.

And the hydraulic thing is part of a small UPS fleet that is at best good for their special stop and go purposes. It's bs at best. Electric, with regenerative braking is far superior. I don't really know why UPS is goofing around with the hydraulic idea. I've had the discussion with a few engineers already. It's good for a laugh. To have a rational discussion is rather involved. To put it simply, electrons move much easier than hydraulic fluid. Not to mention all of the mining and machining of hydraulic parts. The electric car is already in it's elegant form.

And the real bottom line has nothing to do with any of this. We need to put an end to military spending. Take the risk of having the world's armies invade us. They won't. We're past that. But at half a billion per year, we could go a long way towards battery research. And if and when we have a eureka moment with that, then maybe heavy transportation could go electric. As it stands, we're throwing money in all of the wrong directions. And China is flying ahead.

I forgot the most important part. As for the hydraulic concept, the hydraulics is only a replacement for a battery. It's for energy storage. So the question would be, what drives the hydraulic motor/pump/accumulator? And we're right back where we started. Internal combustion? Electric? And that leads back to power generation. It's either renewable or not.

[Schema Thing]

43. Oky dokey then

You're a bit of a nutter.

[Gregorian]

49. And how so?

I am a mechanical engineer who has studied this for a long time.

I may have spoken a bit too soon on the heavy transportation. But at present, and into the foreseeable future, they ain't going to be electric. That may all change over night. But I sure don't see it. Yes, they could have battery exchange stations. But I don't see batteries that could or would work for this purpose.

[spoony]

10. Yeah too bad with diesel

it takes 1/4 more oil to make it and it kicks out more particulate pollution (ESPECIALLY back then) than gas-powered cars.

on edit: Your "poor planet" comment is rather ironic in this context

[Gregorian]

14. Hardly ironic. That was the 70's.

The irony is that we have not progressed past the consumption oriented mentality. And that we still haven't adopted the engineering standards the rest of the human race has. Except for one country. I believe it's Namibia. haha.


Not to belabor the subject, but I don't think people realize that they can actually double their mileage by driving half as much. It all seems so stupid. As if driving were a necessity. It's a far more complex subject than miles per gallon. But that's another subject. One that is altogether avoided.

[spoony]

19. Well if we're talking about moving beyond oil

I'm with you, just wanted to make sure it was out there that diesel isn't better for us just because it gives a better mpg.

[Radical Activist]

27. The Geo Metro got 50mpg in the 90's

on a conventional engine. This is pathetic. Would it kill them to do a compact hybrid? Something more affordable with really good mileage?

[CreekDog]

31. going from 25 mpg to 43 mpg saves a lot of fuel

going from 25 to 43 saves about 252 gallons per year or 42% less fuel

going from 25 to 100 saves 450 gallons per year or 75% less fuel

sure the second way is better, but the reductions if applied across the board make the first scenario a very good thing.

secondly, if the retrofit they are doing in the city turns a car into a plug-in type vehicle then that still uses fossil fuels back at the power plant and if not in California, those fossil fuels are likely coal. pretty nasty stuff.

[Gregorian]

33. That's right. It's all about how we generate the energy.

No matter what the mileage, we're still talking about combustion of petroleum. And in the case of a plug-in, it could be even worse.

At first people even thought the hydrogen idea was good.

Behind this whole problem is something even bigger than energy and cars. But it's taboo to discuss. And it's a bit too late for that anyways.

All we can do now is spend what money we have on battery research, and renewable energy research. I am certain Obama has this as a priority. The problem is, even if we stop all combustion of personal transportation, well, you know. We're in a dire situation. Just making fertilizer requires 1% of all of our energy use alone. The only reason I even post is that having watched this for decades, I am really excited to see any discussion at all. Although I come across as pessimistic, I know we have only begun to use our mental resources.

My point in mentioning the fertilizer is that one other reason I come across as negative is that so much of our society's use of energy will never lend itself to renewable resources. We're only talking, at best, alteration of a fraction of our impact on the environment. The rest is monstrous energy use. It's hard to run huge kilns at 2000 degrees F with batteries. Not in the quantities in which we are accustomed. Like making cement. Or smelting ores.

Argh. This day is history. Time to dream about throwing shoes at Bush. :)

[diane in sf]

44. Even if they charge on coal it takes significantly less energy and makes less pollution

[Better Believe It]

32. Right! You get better mpg with a bicycle or Yugo!

Oh come on now. Can the new ones now be driven on the interstate highway system or do you need a good tailwind?

No one is hardly buying a Prius. Their sales have dropped more than GM, Chrysler and Ford.

[DainBramaged]

37. Do you own one? If not you are only bloviating like a broken toilet

your concept of trouble and reality are like the difference between acid and wine. It's called baby steps, and those who will pay the money (with decades-long payback for the investment) to retrofit their beloved Preus and lose the warranty to achieve 100mpg (wow they be the shitz) which I do not believe since I couldn't find anything about it, are nothing more than hobbyists and they don't live in the real world. Real world is Aunt Margret being convinced to buy one of these and happily using it for a decade without major problems while being a good Eco-doobie.


I am sorry you are more Eco-holier than the rest of us.


Correction, found some YouTube videos with a guy driving around with 100 MPG on his car, and I found Hymotion which charges $9995 + all applicable taxes + $400 destination fee. With gas below $2.00 per gallon Nationwide, how long is the payback? For the average Joes and Janes, they have to think long and hard to put out about $35,000 total on a new Prius and conversation, when they can get good results with the new Ford and get a bigger car.

[Kalyke]

38. First, that takes money (to retrofit).

Secondly, the Fusion v. the Prius??

No question in the looks and affordability department. The Fusion wins, hands down.

(Priuses are uga-lee).

[navarth]

5. That sounds like the car I need

looking forward to seeing that one.

[LostinVA]

6. I don't really think that milegae is that great

My wife's Saab gets about 35, my VW Golf diesel gets from 43-50+ (the latter highway), a friend's old Saturn gets about 35, and my father had a Datsun in the 70's that got almost 40. I'll say it's a start, but there are diesels in Europe getting about 70mpg.

[Gregorian]

8. Small turbo diesels in light vehicles.

We had the ability to do this in 1980. 50 plus mpg. And this is how many years later?

What a country. I've been screaming and swearing about this for decades.

I even built my own special car that did all of this. That was back in the 70's. I even visited the now dead king of turbocharging. Detroit was consulting this great man. But to be talking about 43 mpg in 2008 is like having a shoe thrown at me.

[LostinVA]

12. Exactly -- I love my Golf TDI

I'd LOVE a hybrid diesel.

I'm 44, and I remember plenty of cars back in the 70's and even the 80's that got REALLY good mileage. My Dad's company car is an Accord, and that gets mileage almost as good as that Ford hybrid. I understand that having the electric is a good thing, but teh execution is disappointing -- and it's frigging expensive. The Civic hybrid is way cheaper. I almost got that instead of my Golf. If it was, say 13K instead of starting at 28K.... at that price,I'd take teh Prius, because I know how that model runs.

[Merlot]

11. My Saab get 35 too

Obviously not as good in the city, but highway easily 35, one even got 37.

[all.of.me]

47. It's not just about gas mileage. It's about emissions.

Or lack of. I have the Escape Hybrid, and in town I get about 35 mpg, about 32 on the hiway. In electric mode, there are no emissions. You can't say that about any gas/diesel vehicle with great mileage!

[Terry_M]

9. And this year's Prius is 48 mpg city 45 mpg hwy

If I remember right... Next year, Ford will introduce something that's only 10-20% less efficient? I'm not seeing the big deal...

[LostinVA]

13. Agreed -- and, the Prius has a model history

[dpbrown]

15. Ding, ding, ding!!!

I get 48 in my Prius without even trying. In the summer I get over 50.

So at some time in the future Ford is going to come out with a car that's less efficient than the Prius.

Yawn.

No wonder U.S. carmakers are in trouble.

[AwakeAtLast]

16. And the Prius starts out at $22,000

$6,000 cheaper.

Ford should have been working on this in 1990, not 2000.

[Radical Activist]

30. The Ford's real mpg reating will be less than 43.

It says in the article. So its not comparison to the Prius at all.

[piedmont]

34. The Fusion is a bigger car with comparable mpg numbers

It's good to see hybrid tech spreading to other parts of the auto market instead of remaining confined to compacts.

[JVS]

35. The Fusion really isn't much bigger. Except for length which is expected in a sedan vs hatchback

I went over to carsdirect.com and saw these numbers for dimension and capacities

Door Count 4 doors 4 doors
Maximum Cargo Volume 15.8 cu.ft. 14.4 cu.ft.
Exterior Length 190.2 " 175.0 "
Exterior Width 72.2 " 67.9 "
Exterior Height 57.2 " 58.7 "
Wheelbase 107 " 106 "
Front Tread 62 " 59 "
Rear Tread 61 " 58 "
Turning Radius 19.4 ' 17.1 '
Gross Vehicle Weight Rating N/A 3,795 lbs.
Curb Weight 3,175 lbs. 2,932 lbs.
Drag Coefficient .33 .26
Front Legroom 42.3 " 41.9 "
Rear Legroom 37.2 " 38.6 "
Front Headroom 38.7 " 39.1 "
Rear Headroom 37.8 " 37.3 "
Front Hiproom 54.0 " 51.0 "
Rear Hiproom 53.3 " 51.6 "
Front Shoulder Room 57.4 " 55.0 "
Rear Shoulder Room 56.5 " 52.9 "
Passenger Volume 100 cu.ft. 96 cu.ft.
Interior Cargo Volume 15.8 cu.ft. 14.4 cu.ft.

[TommyO]

39. The Fusion is comparable to the Toyota Camry Hybrid

and is slated to get better mileage than the Camry Hybrid. You need to compare similar vehicles, not different classes of vehicles.

[DainBramaged]

41. You are asking Eco-Doobies to look past their god ToyHonNis

and consider a domestic. Ain't gonna happen. Domestic=shit to them. Don't waste the characters on the keyboard.

[TommyO]

42. The Car and Driver short take gushes about the car

The first thing you need to know about the 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid is that it’s the best mid-size hybrid sedan on the market. Yes, that’s right: it wipes the floor with the Toyota Camry hybrid.

...

The EPA numbers haven’t been finalized, but Ford predicts 39 mpg in the city and 37 mpg on the highway, with as many as 700 miles between fill ups. Over a 300-mile test loop, we averaged 34 mpg—3 mpg better than we did with a Toyota Camry hybrid—with 36.9 mpg in the city and 32.7 mpg on the highway.

...

The other impressive achievement is that the Fusion is reasonably entertaining to drive. While most hybrids squeeze the fun out of driving, the Fusion has nicely weighted steering, a nimble chassis, and rides in a controlled, supple manner. You can hustle the car down a back road and get a smile on your face, which is not something one can say about the Camry hybrid.



http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/hot_lists/car_shopping/green_machines/2010_ford_fusion_hybrid_short_take_road_test

[Terry_M]

48. Thank you for your constructive input.

While the previous response, while not changing my mind, actually informed me about something I was in fact not aware of, your hostile response contributed nothing other than prompting my own equally pointless hostile response.

[Kalyke]

40. And is ugly and more expensive.

Look - not everyone thinks bubbles are cool.

[Terry_M]

46. I don't think the ford car will be any cheaper... Is it really gonna go for less than 22k?

[burythehatchet]

17. here is a link to picture of the car

http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/2009-Ford-Fusion-Hybrid/photos-exterior/

[robinlynne]

18. we have seen it before. 15 years ago. electric cars. old technology. don't forget!

[madrchsod]

22. nice looking auto and should sell ...

ford has a great line up of quality automoblies.

what we need are jobs so people can afford to buy automoblies.

[eilen]

36. It's nice looking, I would buy one

if it isn't priced into the stratosphere.

I have four years left on my Chevy so it should have model history by then. I drive all my vehicles for ten years. They are expensive and I am resolved to make sure I get my money's worth. Sometimes they don't last 10 years-- but those are the ones I bought used with lots of mileage on them. This one I have was a 2001, I purchased it in 2002. So far it has cost me more money in repairs and maintenance than any other vehicle I've owned. That might be due to the 4WD and the tires (and brakes seem to wear out faster than other cars I have had) are more expensive but at the time I bought it, we were doing lots of camping/traveling and needed more room for the dog and my dh had traded in his truck so we needed to be able to fit larger stuff in back than a traditional car. We went with the 4WD because of our winters. I wish I had gotten the Saturn Vue instead.

My dh drives our 96 Saturn, he is determined to drive it until it dies but the trouble with it is that it drinks oil like a fiend. He is looking for a truck again, a used Ford F250 diesel as it is crystal clear the work will never be steady at home and he will be looking at finding a travel trailer (5th wheel) to stay in when out of town. I guess we are not very green in our transport but honestly, we are like a lot of Americans who really can't afford to replace everything. If I had that kind of money, I'd pay off my mortgage.

[CreekDog]

24. The regular Fusion is a really nice car

with decent mileage, room, ride and handling as is.

[Initech]

28. Yeah it is. I rented one and really liked it.

I almost bought one but the guy who tried to sell it to me was trying to stiff me on the deal.

[ContinentalOp]

25. Yeah, you traitorous Ford haters can shove it up your ass!

NOBODY makes concept cars and empty promises like the Big 3! The U.S.A. is still the worldwide leader in undelivered cars that may or may not be available for lease in limited markets at some point in the near future.

[Initech]

26. I'd seriously buy one of those.

I rented a Fusion back in August and it was a pretty nice car. Lots of room for a midsize sedan.

[ContinentalOp]

29. The thing that kills me is that all of these threads have banner ads for the Ford Flex.

Yeah, I don't have a star. Anyway, these banners list "24 mpg" as a feature! As though that were a selling point. It cracks me up every time I open up an auto related thread and see those banners again.

[diane in sf]

45. If this car runs solely on electricity for the first 40 miles some city dwellers may go

years between fillups if it can be charged at night. this sounds worth the money to me, though I also wouldn't be averse to a plug-in Prius (I've had very good experiences with Toyotas).