Plug in Hybrid goes on sale, $22,000

[Rosco T.]

http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7013411359

Shenzhen, China (AHN) - China's BYD Co., which is 10 percent owned by U.S. investor Warren Buffett, said Monday that it has launched the world's first homegrown electric, mass-produced plug-in hybrid car.

BYD chairman Wang Chuan Fu told reporters on Monday that the company will sell the vehicle in European and U.S. markets in 2011, which is a delay from its previous decision to launch in the regions by 2010.

The F3 DM can run for 100 kilometers (62 miles) using only batteries that can be charged from a regular electrical outlet, the company said.

"The development of electric-powered vehicles is the best way for the Chinese auto industry to surpass other leading countries," founder and Chairman Wang Chuanfu was quoted as saying by Bloomberg News at an unveiling ceremony in Shenzhen.

The Chinese auto maker began marketing the F3DM this month to cab operators, government agencies and corporate customers; and will be available in the next month at the earliest.

BYD has managed to beat large car makers in the world -- including General Motors Corp., Toyota Motor Co., and Daimler AG -- who have been trying to launch mass-produced plug-in electric and hybrid cars to reduce carbon dioxide emissions.

The automaker is planning to sell at least 10,000 units of F3DMs in 2009 and the price tag on each car is at 149,800 yuan ($21,890), which is at the lower price range of hybrid sedan in China.

(more)

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

1. I saw a really bizarre Chinese hybrid car in Cambridge, UK the other day.

It looked very similar to this. I couldn't get the make or model, because all of the graphics were in Chinese, unfortunately, but it looked a lot like this.

[Rosco T.]

2. It's getting execellent reviews for it's build quality...

.. maybe they should buy GM and start turning them out here?

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

7. I've been thinking about learning to ride motorcycles...

In the UK you have to start out on 125cc bikes. Most of the used ones are Hondas or Yamahas with umpteen jillion miles on the clock, been done in by kids, etc. Then there are tons of Chinese knockoffs of the aforementioned bikes, and most of them are crap. However... In the past six months or a year a Chinese company called Jinlun has started selling small cruiser-style motorcycles that are actually very well built, stylish, and not knockoffs. For the longest time China has basically been creating cheaper versions of US or Japan products. Now they seem to be creating their own interesting products. It's very exciting. Probably won't be much fun for those of use whose jobs depend on Western manufacturing, but you can hardly blame them.

[SoCalDem]

3. But building new coal-fired power facilities to provide the electricity

kind of negates the savings...no?

and once we get electric cars here, look for the electricity costs to skyrocket..and for oil companies to suddenly be OWNING power plants:(

[stopbush]

5. What are the savings? What is the cost to charge an electric car

so it can drive 100 miles, and how does that compare to the price of gasoline? Right now, I can drive 100 miles on 2.5 gallons of gas, which would cost me about $4.25.

[SoCalDem]

6. THAT is the question..

When MILLIONS of people are "plugging in" instead of filling up, we will have to pay what they charge...won't we? The only way to avoid that is to simultaneously set up solar charging stations in neighborhoods, and get these cars & their enegry neds OFF THE GRID..

[stopbush]

9. Just did some quick research. It looks like fuel cost for an efficient

electric car is about one-third of that for a gas-powered vehicle. Much of the savings comes in the greater efficiency of an electric motor as gasoline-powered engines are highly inefficient with (according to the source I read) 75% of the energy produced in an internal combustion being wasted. If a gasoline-powered engine was as efficient as an electric engine we'd be getting 90 miles to a gallon of gas, rather than 30.

[lakeguy]

12. a lot of the charging capacity will be needed overnight

when power plants still operate but no one is using electricity. there is a ton of available energy because you just don't shut down a nuke or coal plant when no one has their lights on. not saying i like coal plants, just that there is available energy right now that goes to waste.

[Liberal In Texas]

13. Most charging will occur overnight when electric usage is the lowest.

And who says we have to keep making electricity from coal? Yes, one of the solutions to making electricity is for everybody to start putting solar panels and/or small wind turbines on their roofs and pump the extra electrons into the grid. Laws should be passed that all new construction should be required to have solar panels on the roof with an inverter and battery back-up system. Tax rebates should be offered to retrofit existing houses. The scale of large numbers will bring the cost down to manageable levels (like putting airbags in cars).

Plug-in hybrids seems like the sanest solution for a near-term change. Using electricity for 90% of most trips will reduce our carbon footprint significantly.

Rooftop wind generation:

[DonEBrook]

15. The problem, with current technology at least, is that it takes as much energy to manufacture

solar panels as what they will collect during their lifetimes. It's a little like the old story of the Indian who cut off the bottom of the blanket and sewed it back on the top.

[Liberal In Texas]

16. Nonsense. Internet myth. n/t

[DonEBrook]

17. Well, I'm willing to learn. I found that's appropriate 40 years ago when I got my aeronautical

engineering degree and my Airline Transport Pilot certificate...it ain't never too late to learn. :-)

Feel free to be technical, I still remember most of the formulae from aero/hydrodynamics, thermo, stuff like that. :D

[Liberal In Texas]

19. See here:

http://www.solarbus.org/documents/pvpayback.pdf

"This myth was probably perpetuated by studying solar panels created for NASA. If you need something extremely efficient for use in outer-space, yes, then it doesn't matter how much energy you use to create the panel. But for use hear on Earth, it's ridiculous for anyone to say that solar panels consume more energy than they produce.

Of course, doing anything in this world takes energy. Whether it's building power lines or shipping oil from Saudi Arabia, it takes energy to make energy usable. In fact, there's a nifty number that puts all of this into perspective. It's called the “energy balance”, and it is, in short, the amount of energy you get out divided by the energy you put in.

It is a bit incorrect to apply energy balance to solar panels, because they don't actually contain the energy

There may be some economic reason to not be an early adopter of solar, but there is certainly no doubt that they produce a lot more energy than they consume. And soon, they'll be producing even more." ... http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/794/74/

The result of 5 minutes of Googling.

[Vincardog]

8. What car do you have that gets 40 MPG?

[madrchsod]

11. i have a 87 crx that gets 40 mpg on the interstate...

[LeftyMom]

14. Not really, since electric cars can be charged overnight when there's excess capacity

it's very nearly free energy (not for the end user, but from a utility-wide viewpoint) until you get enough of them to increase demand in those off-peak hours enough to matter.

[Incitatus]

18. How efficient are the power plants at using their fuel?

I'm not certain, but I would bet they get better than 25% like our vehicles do now.

[uppityperson]

4. I cannot afford to pay that much for a car. I'd like a hybrid, but can't afford even that.

[madrchsod]

10. they make their own batteries.....

the american car companies have to buy their batteries from suppliers. this is one of the reasons that all electric autos in the usa will never surpass market share of the electric/internal combustion drive.