How in the world can a judge be allowed to bailout Madoff investors?

[Joe Fields]

This is just too much. Not only are they going to get bailed out, but they will also be allowed to declare their losses on their income tax.

Many of these greedy bastards knew something was not on the up and up, just by the obscene returns on their investments that this Madoff guy generated for awhile through his Ponzi scheme. Some investors thought the man was doing some insider trading, but didn't care, as long as they continued to get fantastic returns.

I'm sorry, people, but to me this is a genuine WTF moment.

http://www.rr.com/view/content/story.cfm?storyId=6407138&view=HOME&newsgroup=9000&sSect=HOM_1

[Rosa Luxemburg]

1. I think it is called greed

[SharonRB]

2. Madoff, not Madow. n/t

[Dennis Donovan]

3. I was about to ask - how DOES one invest in Rachel?

Her stock is the ONLY one rising...;)

[Joe Fields]

4. sorry...corrected. I must have been thinking about Rachel.

[Libertyfirst]

5. Max that can be claimed is 500k. Not exactly a bailout if you have lost millions or billions. n/t

[quiet.american]

6. You know, a lot of these folk were like you and me. And ten percent a year is not exactly "obscene."

Check out these panicked emails from Bloomberg's website:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601213&sid=aZB6Zjq0DcY8&refer=home

What happens to people that were not tipped off in advance about this. It appears some people got their money out. I have a retired client who is now, more than likely, broke. If you know anything I can tell her, it would be appreciated.

S.M.

- - -

What is going to happen to the little guys who have invested money w/him? My family and I have invested w/Bernard. Does this mean the money that we invested is all gone? Is there anyway to get some or all of it back? I know this has affected a lot of people/companies. I am worried that the big companies will be taken care of before the individuals (little guys). My uncle has his lawyers investigating this but I was wondering if you had any suggestions? This is very stressful. The money we had in our account was our nest egg. Thank you in advance for your time/feedback.

L.C.

- - -

As an individual investor (in a small family Limited Partnership) in Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC, I have been unable to determine from any article or the complaint filed by the US Attorney’s office whether or not investments in the above referenced funds are affected by the alleged fraud by Bernard Madoff of what appears to be a separate investment advisory business involving 11 to 25 individuals and/or institutional investors apparently, according to reports controlled solely by Bernard Madoff himself.

I and a number of friends have been invested in Bernard L. Madoff Investment Securities LLC for years, with total investments in excess of $10MM in the aggregate. Any light you can shed upon this question would be greatly appreciated by quite a few people at my end, not to mention many others whom I do not know elsewhere.

W.G.

- - -

I am a retired business man living in Florida. Just about all my money is invested with Madoff Securities. I have been using that money to live on. Based on what is known so far, can you tell me how badly I have been hurt and if there is anything I should be doing to possibly protect myself or preserve my assets. I appreciate any advice you can give me. Please email me or call me . . .

H.S.

- - -

I have just read the article regarding the Madoff investments. Could you please tell me what investors are supposed do in wake of this news? Or provide any detail that you may have come across in your research for this story?

Both my grandmother and parents invested funds with the firm. We are very concerned. Please advise.

Thank you,

V.G.

- - -

We are a long time investor in Madoff with millions of dollars there. We can’t get any information? Do you know anything about how much of the investors assets are left?

S.K.

- - -

I am one of the little guys who has money invested at Madoff. My father was an investor with the company for 30 years, and when he died in 2006 he left money in trust for my children and my wife which is invested in Madoff accounts. Based on what he told me of the firm, I also invested the money he left to me. All totaled we have about $2,800,000 in four accounts. Needless to say I am feeling pretty sick to my stomach this evening. At this point do you have any idea of whether there is (or will be) any money to distribute to account holders. Any information you can provide would be appreciated (that is an understatement for sure). Thank you.

[Joe Fields]

11. These were pretty strong reliable returns for a hedge fund, and

also, it was a closed fund, which means people usually put more of their assets into it.

My point is, what makes these people so special that they get bailed out from a ponzi scheme?

[quiet.american]

16. I understand where you're coming from and all, but just had to say, not all were "greedy bastards."

And I hear, you, too, as to why bail out these folks and not others. It does all seem to be a game of roulette.

As far as the bailout goes, I guess we really know the only reason there may be a bailout is because so-called "big" names are also on the list.

If it were just about the grandmas and grandpas, that would be all she wrote. Sadly.

[Joe Fields]

17. Yeah, not all were greedy, but a good many of them were.

It isn't proper to tar them all as Gordon Gecko wannabe's.

[brooklynite]

7. My High School is one of those "greedy investors"...

We had a modest endowment fund that was invested in a well-thought of fund with a 20-year track record, which in turn did some of its investments through Madea. That money is presumably no longer available to provide financial aid for deserving students.

Not everyone involved in this scandal was a celebrity or a high-roller.

[gravity]

8. That bailout seems fair

It really isn't costing the government money, other than the SIPC funds which act just like the FDIC insurance. Liquidating the remaining assets of Madoff's firm and returning what remains to the clients is what should be done too.

Investors are still getting royally screwed from the whole deal, but they will still at least get some of their principle back.

[Joe Fields]

13. I'm all for liquidating the company's remaining assets and splitting

it up among investors, but people who lose money on investments should not get bailed out, and people who invest in ponzi schemes should not get bailed out. This is just plain wrong on so many levels, I can't understand how you can't see it.

[gravity]

15. They lost money from fraud

Losing money from taking out too much risks is different than actually getting your money stolen.

They are going to receive SIPC funds, which is set up exactly for this purpose. It is no different than receiving FDIC funds after putting your money in a crooked bank. Best case, you get $500k, which is nothing if you lost billions of dollars.

[Joe Fields]

18. To get their losses covered, AND get to claim them on their taxes,

isn't that a bit much?

[gravity]

20. They are getting their deserved protection under the SIPC

which protects against security fraud, not investment losses. Madoff's firm was registered with the SIPC.

And deducting security losses on your taxes is pretty standard. You have less income, so you get to pay less taxes that year.

[Joe Fields]

21. appreciate the education. at first look, and not being in the business

the whole thing didn't smell right to me. Still don't know how I feel about being able to take losses where none really occurred.

[stillcool]

9. What happened with the people...

Enron ripped off?

[marybourg]

10. The judge merely signed an order

instructing the victims to *seek* relief under a certain federal law. He didn't decide that they can actually collect under that law.

He also ordered that the business proceed to bankruptcy. This is just the beginning of a very long process under which everyone involved will have the opportunity to be heard.

[sixmile]

12. My stocks have been crushed by short seling

Where is my bailout? Oh, I forgot, I'm not a hedge fund or a bank, so fuck me.

[Waiting For Everyman]

14. Let me feed back the loop...

I know how to advise these people, based on what they had to say about the foreclosure problem, I learned a lot from them...

Why did they invest what they couldn't afford?

Didn't they read the contract?

Why didn't they get some investment advice?

Why didn't they take a course in finance, if they didn't understand it?

I don't want MY tax dollars to pay for their BAD DECISIONS.

They deserve to lose money because they were wrong. That's how it goes. They knew the market could go down. It's their own fault.


(I could go on, but that's enough. It doesn't sound so right "coming back" does it?)

Oh, and... these schools who lost out... they are educated, why didn't they know more about what they were invested in? Why weren't they in CDs? (Could it be... the big return???)

[leftstreet]

19. Nicely done

Good questions!

[TheWebHead]

22. I heard there'll be clawbacks

of those that profited from Madoff by taking their money out before the blowup - at least going back six years. They'll seize and sell off all his other assets and that of the firm, so I'm guessing they'll all get about 20% or more of their original investment back eventually (ie. not counting their phoney returns).

I'm pretty wary of SIPC bailing these people out, because that involves security theft. These people never owned securities, especially those invested via the feeder funds. It'll be a rat's nest trying to figure it all out though, given the statements were all phoney...

And I don't buy only 1 person could know about this at the firm...