You are not going to get high achievement from every child on goals set by legislators.

[madfloridian]

I taught for over 30 years, and never stopped learning from the children I taught. They were not little automatons that could be programmed to learn in any single way. I look back through the years to 3 of the most brilliant children I taught. I remembered them because I saw a letter to the editor the other day written by one about the electoral college. It was written intelligently and well-argued.

That child, teen-ager now, could never take a standardized test. He could not sit still in the classroom. He did not think in a patterned way well enough to score well on the normed test because he read too much into the multiple choice questions.

His parents were at their wits end with him. The school would not agree to test him because he did not meet rigid criteria. The parents finally pushed and the the testing was done. His IQ was off the charts so to speak. He especially loved science and social studies.

One day the parents and I agreed to work together to let this 5th grade child teach a couple of the classes in those subjects. It was totally amazing. Other teachers would come in to watch as we let him have more responsibility. He blossomed socially as well.

He could not pass a single test. He simply could not do it. Under the NCLB this child would be considered a failure.

There were two others, brothers, from a home with a loving mother. The father was a very good man until he had flashbacks to Vietnam. The boys lived in fear. By 3rd grade when I had them in successive years, they could not read. They simply were unable to read. They could do the most complicated math I could give them, I had tutors come in to give more challenges.

They could not read a word despite various means used. A Montessori trained person came in to help them at my request because I was taking a special ed course at that time. They loved it, but they could not read.

We had them tested in school and privately....their IQ's were in the high 170's. Yet by the current FCAT and NCLB standards, they would be considered failures. I ran across the mother a year or so ago, she said that the extra attention they got early led to more help for them in leading productive and happy lives and a way around the inability to recognize words.

I could go on. In over 30 years I saw so many with so many different learning styles.

I have said I do not agree with some of the plans of Obama for education. Many teachers do not. I don't care for the idea of charter schools, but then I will not have much say. The plans in various forms at all located at this site

Charter schools, a combination of private and public have been in the works for years by Democrats, mostly the more conservative ones. I fear for the public schools that will be drained of money by charters, just as many have been drained by vouchers. Taking money away almost assures failure.

But the hardest part is the statement below...because it can not be done. This was said by Obama today.

.."pursue the kind of strategy that Arne Duncan's pursued and I want to see our administration pursue, which is making no excuses and expecting high achievement from every child.

You can not educate a child without making legitimate excuses for their learning needs and their capabilities.

In so trying to make all children machine-like through education, we are going to kill their souls and take away a uniqueness that humans need.

[ColbertWatcher]

1. I agree with you about charter schools. (k+r)

I see them as the first step in privatization of public schools.

Until teachers are seen as the most important link between public school education and children, we're never going to get anywhere.

Why are businesses given more leeway than teachers?

As far as I'm concerned, the more money that is spent on charter schools, the less there is for education.

[madfloridian]

4. You would like this article...not about charter schools, but corporations butting into schools.

It is called the 500 Pound Gorilla.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/500pound.htm

[VonHayek]

19. I would pay money to anyone

Who would be able to educate our kids, something which according to international standards we haven't been doing. If they get a profit, fine. It's better than what we've had for the last half century.

[rvablue]

2. Kick because I totally agree with you and thanks for writing this out

it is so, so true.

[madfloridian]

5. The test taking mindset is taking a toll on real learning.

:hi:

[slipslidingaway]

3. Well said...

"You can not educate a child without making legitimate excuses for their learning needs and their capabilities.

In so trying to make all children machine-like through education, we are going to kill their souls and take away a uniqueness that humans need."

[madfloridian]

16. I have seen it in action.

I feel strongly about it. We are raising a nation of kids who are test-takers but have little independent knowledge unless their parents are working with them as well.

[pnwmom]

6. I used to wonder why I'd hear stories about so many high-achieving adults

having been mediocre high school students -- at best.

Now, as a mother having watched three students pass through this process -- and dozens of their friends -- I understand. The schools do not well serve the kids on the edges -- the brilliant, the quirky, the creative kids on the edges.

Fortunately, some of these kids manage to make it through anyway, despite society's efforts to put them into a box -- and they go on to do great things.

Thank you very much for your post.

[madfloridian]

32. It serves no one well when they try to put everyone in the same box...

and label it and tie it with the ribbon. And then judge the teachers by that same rote testing.

:shrug:

It's a sure way to kill real learning experiences.

[Mithreal]

7. PE Obama should focus more on what helped him succeed

Anyone else remember his story of his mother waking him at 5am to help him with his homework. Is there any evidence this story instructs him in his education policies?

What responsibilities do the parent and child have in learning?

Maybe a better question, what responsibility does the federal government have to protect American families. How can we have the highest expectations for teachers when the politicians do not have the courage or love to protect the families of these children. I could tell my stories about how we make these families homeless, parent-less, starve them, let them shiver in the cold, or simply die but you probably have your own.

I realize that student achievement was a problem during easier times. There are so many issues that affect student achievement that non-teachers will never get. It is just too damn convenient to blame teachers. It even makes sense when you had one of those burned out husks of a teacher that should have moved on but didn't because he or she needed a paycheck.

I believe there is something much worse at the root of our educational problems but I think it can be treated with strong families and good parenting. And all the kids who still won't learn in the conservatives' 'valiant' attempts can just be locked up when they grow up or better yet, rendition them, right.

Empower teachers who have the ideas and support them adequately everywhere. But we won't will we? The time for hoping for change is about to end. Pragmatists be damned, now is not the time for piecemeal change. We either get it right now or I don't think we will see the needed changes in my lifetime. I really want to be wrong. Please let me be wrong.

Anyway, thank you MF.

[roody]

8. If the legislators had to take the test that they mandate for childre,

things would change. It is also education money grossly misdirected.

[madfloridian]

33. Good point about using up education money better spent other ways.

:hi:

[AwakeAtLast]

9. My child was sent to the nurse to have her eyes checked because she wasn't coloring in the lines

I thought we were past that, aren't we? :shrug:

Her eyes are fine, BTW. :eyes:

[mopinko]

10. oh boy.

well, i suspect that we agree about a lot about education. but i think that you don't know squat about chicago schools right now, or about arne duncan.

chicago schools have experienced a real renaissance under mayor ritchie daley and superintendent arne duncan. the nastiest thing i can say about arne is that he met the goals of nclb pretty well. i don't think he crushed too many little spirits in the process, tho. he mostly took the kids on the edge of the quartiles and gave them extra tutoring to boost them over the line.
but between the 2 of them, they stopped white flight to the suburbs by providing the kind of high quality options that people took for granted in the burbs. i admit that not every child got those options. not every parent could or would make it through the hoops. but enough did to fill the 5 selective enrollment college prep high schools, and a host of other options, in every neighborhood in the city.
before daley took control of the schools from a 17 member do nothing board, schools were in horrible shape, physically and academically. he had pursued an aggressive campaign of building new schools, rehabilitating the rest, and making sure that every school has a physical plant that is suited to their precious cargo.
they have closed and reconstituted several schools that refused to improve. most of the rest got the message.

and those charters? this is not texas. several are affiliated with universities. like the renowned university of chicago lab school that the obama kids attend has a charted school. in a truly underserved area of the city.
another is a charter for just the kind of kids you are talking about.
despite the pleas of the archdiocese of chicago, there are no vouchers for catholic schools. the improvements in the public schools have drained their system. they have closed many, many of their schools.

the system used to kill their souls. these days, although no big system will ever be perfect, it feeds and waters little souls that never had a chance.

if arne can bring half what has been done for the kids of chicago to the rest of the country, we will have a different future.

[Chulanowa]

11. Education needs to be taken out of Legislation's paws

Except for funding it - which should be done at a federal level, rather than at a local property tax level. The way it's set up now, rich schools do better and then get more government money. Poor schools perform worse, and are then forced to fire teachers and hire new ones, while suffering further cuts for their poor performance. it's the absolutely most ass-backwards way of doing anything that I have ever seen

Education itself should be left in the hands of teachers, for the most part. People become teachers because they want to teach, not because the pay and benefits are great with good hours. I've had good teachers... and i've had better teachers. About the only teachers I would classify as "bad" in my experience were the ones who had more stress on their shoulders than they could handle. I can imagine ending up trying to teach thirty kids how to read day in and day out, on a babysitter's allowance, would be enough to make even the best teacher cranky as hell.

I like Obama. But i'm not under the delusion that he knows everything about everything - he's clearly falling through ith htat quote about education. He wants results, as do most of the heads in the beltway.

But teaching isn't about the results. There is no point where any child is "done" in the classroom (a I found out to my chagrin, when i would race through assignments hoping to have free time... and just getting a smile and new assignment in return, lol) Expecting "results" is what ends up giving us standardized tests and wasting half the fucking school year teaching kids "no, the answer isn't always C" rather than teaching them the actual subjects the tests are about.

Thankfully I had graduated the year before NCLB came out and the testing boom really took off. I remember getting in trouble my Sophomore year in high school when I told a teacher "I'm not in this class to study test strategy, I'm here to study American history"

...It's kind of ironic, now that I think about it.

The worst part is the fear of god that is put into students before they get their scan tests. It was pretty absurd when I was in school, and my little sister (graduating 2009) tells me it's even worse now. there's an air of almost personal threat when it comes to the standardized tests. "You'd better do well on this or we'll all suffer and it'll be your fault"

[elleng]

12. madf, you're the kind of teacher I wanted for my kids,

and I think Linda Darling-Hammond wants; I'd also say as to 'excuses,' said by O, that I'd not interpret that in a negative way, but in YOUR way, EXPLAINING how each learns differently.

THANK YOU for all you've done!

[madfloridian]

14. There are so many ways to get accountability other than testing.

Especially in the manner we have been doing. Grades on report cards in themselves are accountability, teacher opinion is as well.

There are oral tests instead of written, conferences with the teacher to discuss topics in small groups.

My personal opinion? That hardline testing is meant for a purpose...the failure of public schools and the beginning of schools combined with businesses. They are not just judging students with those tests, they grade teachers and schools as well....and they close them if they fail. Then they come up with other ideas...take that thought and go with it. Corporations can make big money off schools if it is a nationwide effort.

:shrug:

[pnwmom]

26. There's another reason for hardline testing -- and also drug testing in

schools -- it's a money maker for the testing corporations.

Think how much money the College Board has made by convincing practically every district in the country to view the AP tests as the gold standard.

[madfloridian]

31. Did you read this article I posted above? Corporatism invading schools.

http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/500pound.htm

It's long, but well worth it.

Tells about the testing companies and book companies and a lot more.

[scorpiogirl]

13. I have one of those kids that has a hard time with tests.

She is 7, in second grade and has a hard time passing the timed math tests that the school (district) mandates. They have to complete 100 math problems in five minutes. I think this is too much to expect from some kids. So she's taken the same test I'm sure more than ten+ times now since the beginning of the year because she can't pass it. Never mind that she can add up to 100+ in her head, they will just keep giving her the test until she passes it. It seems so ridiculous to me. Her teacher even called her a puzzle because she can do some harder things, but has trouble with what they consider more basic things. Now she's just completely bored and gets distracted from finishing the test. They don't recognize that a child has learned anything unless they test well in it which just drives me insane. It's completely beating a dead horse.

I agree that not all kids can learn the same way. My child is proof of that.

[madfloridian]

15. There was a time when teachers were allowed to use other methods.

As trained professionals we were able to evaluate children using daily or weekly teacher-made testing, using teacher judgement.

Now I recently read of several Florida 3rd graders who had good daily weekly grades, but failed the FCAT. If you fail the FCAT in third you can not be promoted...period.

[scorpiogirl]

18. I am definitely worried about that.

I guess we just work harder until something clicks. I think it's going to be a long road though. Thanks for the information.

[tdog8]

17. The same thing happened to my son...

When he was in 2nd grade he was expected to complete the same type of 100 problem test in 5 minutes. He could get through the first 20 - 30 (in less than a minute) and then "check out". We tried to negotiate that 20 + in one minute was at least as good as 100 in five minutes but there was no way that was going to be okay. He had adding, subtracting and mixed forms of this test.

He grew to hate math. He believed he was a failure at it. He started getting so nervous when the class would take the timed tests, he would make simple mistakes he had never made before.

He could solve just about any problem in his head, "basic facts" and complicated critical thinking types. None of that mattered. The teacher just said if he didn't pass the timed test, he couldn't receive a grade better than 'C' for math.

We coached him and practiced with him at home. Eventually he passed all three forms of the test but to this day (he's a senior in high school) he HATES math. (He didn't like us much at that time either for pushing him on the timed fact tests.) It wasn't worth making him pass those tests.

He did well in Algebra, loves Geometry and is passing Algebra II with a B+ but all with a constant struggle to add and subtract with accuracy and attention.

[scorpiogirl]

21. That's just what my daughter does: check out.

She is easily distracted by noise or sights in the room. We've tried ear plugs, the little cardboard office they put up and moving her desk. I think a lot of it is boredom with the test. I know she's thinking that she knows it so why does she have to keep taking it? When she had the test in first grade (30 problems in 1 1/2 minutes) she took a long time to pass those as well. As soon as she started taking the 100 problem tests, I knew this was going to be a huge challenge. I actually couldn't believe they would put this kind of pressure on kids this age. I don't remember having anything like that when I was a kid. Obviously kids that age aren't going to understand the long term ramifications of not passing those tests so that makes it difficult too.

I think it's bad for their moral when they're smart, but can't show it on a test. My husband had that problem as well. He was terrible in school. Turns out he has ADD but didn't get diagnosed until after high school. I'm sure she has it as well, but I want her to try to learn to work with it rather than just start taking drugs to suppress it.

Thanks for sharing your story with me.

[tdog8]

27. By Third Grade

my son was tested and in the GATE program. (CA "Gifted and Talented Ed")

If a child is labeled GATE he/she is supposed to receive differentiated instruction. As a teacher, I know how difficult it is to differentiate for one or two students BUT as a parent (and teacher) I knew my son was supposed to be able to demonstrate (by authority of the GATE label) his understanding in whatever way he could. It didn't work retroactive to the timed tests in 2nd grade but I tried it with the 3rd grade teacher and once again was told he had to pass (multiplication by now) the timed tests. She said the differentiated instruction was only for some areas of the curriculum.

And honestly, every year after that, I was told he had to just complete MORE, not different if it suited him, because he was GATE.

The intent of the differentiated instruction (in my role as a teacher) seemed to be suited for all 'levels' of achiever. Some of my students are able to answer my questions orally but are not able to complete test questions in the written form as well. Some need to be able to show understanding by drawing a picture for some content. For some, the multiple choice test is just what they like and are good at. There were many in my son's classes who LOVED the timed math tests. I had one student long ago who couldn't spell his name (in 5th grade) and had all the academic problems you might guess because of that. But built my husband a 3' by 3' model of Dodger Stadium out of construction paper. He directed two of the other students, who were proficient in reading AND math, and the three of them built the playing field, score board, stands and a couple of snack bars using construction paper, glue and markers. It was amazing.

As a parent, I knew my son needed to have his learning style honored. We all need to find a way to contribute to our society and if we aren't one who does timed math tests the way standardized teaching asks, there is something else we do that maybe doesn't fit the standardized criteria.

In my job these days, I have less and less ability to let a student show his or her understanding in the style that works for each child. There is one test we have to give where part of the answer is supposed to be underlined and another part is supposed to be circled. Both also have to be copied to the correct answer line. If the child gets the content of the test correct, but mixes up the circles and underlines, the answer is marked wrong.

Testing, and the honor the scores are given by politicians, is not the only way to measure a child's worth.

Good luck to you and your daughter. Our son has found great success in high school. Many of his elementary school teachers were great and did honor his learning styles. Middle school, not so much. It was a nightmare. But he's on his way to college with all his same quirks. It's an interesting journey.

[scorpiogirl]

36. I can understand how hard it must be to customize

each child's learning style with the classes with so many kids being taught at once. My daughter's teachers have definitely tried to help, but mostly with her concentration level rather than learning differences. I know there is only so much that can be done individually.

I have to say I was quite shocked one day when her first grade teacher told me we needed to work on math more at home because they didn't have time for it at school. It made me wonder what they were doing for seven hours a day? I really wish they would space the timed tests out more so there could be more learning in between rather than test, test, test.

I appreciate your thoughtful post. I've learned a lot about how it all works. I have to say, I'm 37, but I don't remember timed tests or even doing multiplication until 6th grade. It seems like they're in a hurry to cram it all in as fast as possible. I've even looked at some of her homework and had to think about what they were asking for. Don't even get me started on the amount of homework lol!

[LeftyMom]

24. If it helps, in California you have the right to opt your child out of standardized tests.

If they're not a good measure of her abilities or are being used to inaccurately gauge her skills, I would encourage you to do so.

[scorpiogirl]

25. I had no idea!

I am definitely going to check that out. Thank you, LeftyMom!

[LeftyMom]

28. Yeah, most schools keep that pretty quiet

because they can fail the statewide exams if too low a percentage of kids participate.

[scorpiogirl]

34. I'm not surprised.

I just can't understand forcing kids to do something they may not be capable of just to make the numbers look good. We are in an excellent district too so I wouldn't think there would be too much impact on the numbers, but you never know.

[pnwmom]

29. A surprising number of gifted math and engineering students aren't

particular strong in computation. I hope you'll keep encouraging her. I remember talking to an 8th grade advanced math teacher who said that the hardest thing for him was to get the 7th grade teachers to send him the kids who would most benefit from his class -- that the kids who were best at computation weren't necessarily the best at conceptual math.

Your story reminded me of my daughter in the beginning of first grade. They wanted her to be able to see an array of objects at a glance and instantly know how many items were there. She never got past 8. (The goal was 10). Meanwhile, she could tell you what half of 153 was. She could do "story problems" in her head, because we did that for fun in long car trips. But she'd never seen a minus sign because we never gave her workbooks or did paper and pencil stuff with her. Later, she had to work to learn her times tables just like everyone else. (I told her that that "math facts" were like Lego pieces -- you have to have the Lego pieces before you can make the cool Lego buildings.)

So she was a "puzzle" too.

Fortunately, she still loves math (she's a grad student engineer right now). The schools didn't ruin it for her. But she went through before NCLB, thank goodness.

[scorpiogirl]

35. That's interesting.

It's very frustrating for us and I know it's very frustrating for her too. It would be nice if her teacher would recognize that instead of continuing to pursue things she may never get. I worry about her morale in those instances.

Strangely enough, if my daughter finishing something she's working on hinges on her going to recess or lunch she can get it done super quick. I think some of it is motivational but after having to take a test so many times, how much motivation can you have?

You give me hope. Thanks. My daughter has asked to be home-schooled, but I know I'm not cut out for that. Plus, we don't have too much of a social life so she'd probably hardly ever see friends. It wouldn't be good for since she's extremely social and outgoing.

edit: spelling

[madeline_con]

20. What happened to the gifted SLD designation?

These kids sound like they might fall into that category. there are accomodations for them in NCLB.

[madfloridian]

22. Not at the time I taught the brothers.

The other one I managed with the help of the parents to get into the program. I can't remember the date it started here, but my son was in it in the mid seventies....and that was one of the first.

At the time I taught the brothers the SLD designation was not yet available...though the word dyslexia was used. There was no program then....giving my age away. :evilgrin:

[tdog8]

23. I teach - or used to teach - in a district...

...with test scores on the lower end of the spectrum.

There are language barriers, socio-economic barriers and funding barriers in the way of our students achieving but those issues don't fully explain the problems. Many of our students are doing well. Many are not doing so well. Although our district started out with many schools in program improvement, our test scores have gone up over the years. Since NCLB became the rule of the land and the ONLY basis on which to judge our students' worth became the score on a yearly test we have learned how to change all that.

We have done a tremendous job of teaching students how to take the test. They know how to use their test taking strategies, they can list all those strategies, highlight key words, underline text, and cross out "silly" answer choices. They number the paragraphs in a comprehension section of a test and refer back to the text when choosing the correct answer.

Our students know the difference between "In the Book" questions and "In my Head" questions. They have practiced these strategies for weeks and weeks before the big state test. They have given up recess and lunch time and stayed after school to work with intervention teachers.

We use Direct Instruction ALL the time and students know how to work during "My Turn, Our Turn, Your Turn", they can work with partners and be sure each partner completes his or her responsibilities. Then students know how to continue with independent work. (Except those who aren't independent yet.)

We group our students in "leveled" classes for reading time so they are with only other students who achieve at about their pace. The high achievers are in a room together and the low achievers are in a different room. Those high achievers have a room full of other students who are capable while the low achievers are in a class where there is no one (except the teacher) who is capable. They have no peer models to show them it can be done.

There is no time in our day for science or social studies or art or music. I have been written up for allowing students to even have crayons or scissors out during class time. (I teach Third Grade.)

We have gone back to worksheets that mimic the tests (almost ALL multiple choice) rather than guiding students to find a way to explain their ideas either in writing or orally.

Our test scores have improved but the level of knowledge does not seem to have been elevated. The students know how to take the tests alright, but they don't know anything about science or art. Even many of those who can read, don't know a lot about what they are reading.

I have taught for 25 years. There was a time I could find what a student was interested in, then get him or her reading through other content areas. Learning about dinosaurs or planets/solar systems was interesting and made it worth trying to read for many students. Now, they only get to read the Anthology and answer questions about each story until they can't stand it anymore.

I am not yet old enough to retire. The young teachers I am meeting don't know any other way except The Test. Obama has said parents need to turn off the TV and video games and make children do their homework. I applaud that.

But he has also said he's in favor of merit pay for teachers. If teachers are judged on the scores of their students, who will work with those students labeled "low achievers". They need teachers who are given the freedom to teach with the needs of the students always in mind.

Passing a test doesn't matter if the one passing it can only explain HOW to pass it. Passing only matters if the test taker knows the content and understands WHY she/he is passing.

[madfloridian]

30. Excellent points. Newer teachers...it is about all they know.

They don't have the memories of the time when teachers were hired for their ability and education (in FL you don't have to have a full degree now last I heard)...trusted, and allowed to be creative in the classroom.

Before I retired the "test" words and test language was starting. Just as you said there were starting to be code words, rallies for the tests, cheerleading, stunts performed by the administrators to encourage better test scores. It's gotten out of control now with principals getting their heads shaved and spending nights on roof tops of schools

People here at DU often seem ok with the idea that judging teachers by how their students score is fair and honest. It has become normal.

Education is the area in which I differ the most with Obama.

[cachukis]

38. I am in my sixth year of teaching Reading in Florida.

The last five years (inner city HS) have been an involvement with level 1 and some level 2 students mostly in the bottom quartile. I take lunch with my colleagues in the English department each day and discuss Springboard, the new cookie cutter antithesis of AP Lit. and Lang. approach. I have been give a curriculum guide to, well guide my instruction as well.

One of my colleagues has a doctorate in Reading. We endlessly compare our learning to read experiences with our students and further discuss reading teaching theory. I am 56 she is a few years my junior.

She has priveleged me with one of her late 1990's papers that supports her thoughts on varying ways to visualize reading. I argue that she is writing about learning not reading. It occurred to me that what has happened in Florida and no doubt prompted NCLB is the illiteracy rates exposed by the research. We have to teach Reading to anyone who hasn't passed FCAT. It is a political solution.
It is a benchmark for politicians. It is an "I am for better students," hollow aphorism. It is not respecting the learning process.

We have an illiteracy problem because the kids today get by without having to read.

If we devoted more time to the learning experience, the development of curiosity, we would have far more advanced thinking coming out of our more socio/economically troubled youngsters. They are constantly looking for an escape from their drudgeries, from the demands of growing up with limited resources or perhaps low flying helicopters.

If students had more time to engage in the learning process they would have no alternative but to seek wise counsel in books. Then they would read.

I live an oxymoron. I am in a system that tries to teach a process to someone who has gotten by without it.

The problem is endemic. I know there is no one solution.

My Russian internist reminds me that we need street sweepers.

[madfloridian]

40. When I first started teaching back in the dark ages...we were given goals for a year.

And we were allowed and encouraged to build our own curriculum, though it was usually around certain texts.

At the end when I retired, we were scripted almost to what could be said in the classroom.

The kids I taught years ago had the benefit of class discussions, with everyone's opinion being important.

The kids I taught at the end did not have that benefit. It is their loss.

[YvonneCa]

41. I just retired last June, before I had planned to, due to...

...exactly the stresses you wrote about so well. Thank you for these words...I have had exactly the same experience in my 24 years as a teacher. As teachers, we believe in and have been taught to work to meet the needs of each child, as difficult as that is at times, in a diverse classroom. NCLB not only requires teachers to 'throw away' that mindset to survive...it prescribes punishment for schools and teachers who cling to the goal of real teaching over test-taking.

I was written up for the way I passed out lined paper. :7 I'm not kidding. The principal was looking for excuses to get me out. The disrespect was awful. What I have learned since is that my district is targeting teachers and forcing them into early retirement to save money (They replaced me with two new teachers...no defined benefits).

I hope Obama can fix public schools. He has to include teachers to be successful...but I'm not sure he knows that. Good luck to you! :)

[madfloridian]

42. Florida I know is forcing many into early retirement...to hire new ones more cheaply.

The requirements are nothing like they used to be. The teachers are not as qualified, but as you say they can hire two for the price of one.

It is going on all over. They mark people down for the most insignificant things you can imagine.

I could bend your ear, but the stories are so weird they might give away the school...we had one hell of a mean principal.

[YvonneCa]

45. I know now that it is happening ...

...everywhere. But I DIDN'T know that when it was being done to me. As to the mean principals...there is a training program that teaches them how to do it. They are operating out of the same, sanctioned, playbook.

Besides getting two teachers for the price of one, they also speed up the day when they will no longer be obligated to provide the defined benefit pensions that we have now...AND the sooner they force a person out...the lower the pension they must pay.

[eppur_se_muova]

37. "The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled." -- Plutarch

Committee-designed education plans always try to go the vessel-filling route. It's inevitable that they should fail.

[madfloridian]

39. Speaking of NCLB...even GOOD Florida schools are failing.

Even top Florida schools may fail NCLB standards.

"More than 1,000 Florida public schools do not meet federal academic standards and are drifting toward failure. Although some of these schools earn A's and B's under the state grading system, they cannot show success on the long checklist required under the federal government's controversial No Child Left Behind law.

More than 70 percent of Florida's eligible schools are off track toward satisfying the 7-year-old law, which demands high-poverty campuses receiving federal money meet tough academic standards.

"It's a little frustrating," said Jim Leslie, principal of B-rated Azalea Park Elementary in Orange County. "We do a pretty good job, and we're improving."

[rvablue]

43. Glad to still see this on the 1st page and another kickety-kick!

[qwlauren35]

44. Yet another area in which the grassroots will have to work hard to be heard.

There are a couple of ways to interpret what Obama said. The "theory" of NCLB was that no one would be told that they could not learn or could not achieve or could not succeed, and no child would be stuck in an environment in which the teachers could not teach.

For the ridiculously brief few weeks that I worked as a teacher, I saw the problem with NCLB that you speak of - intelligent children who cannot pass tests. And I saw lots of other problems as well.

I'm a horrible pessimist when it comes to schools. I am convinced that its impossible to avoid leaving some children behind. It is impossible to keep some children from falling through the cracks. It is absolutely impossible to force children to achieve.

But I think Obama's statement was around not accepting a school's excuse that student A "cannot achieve" and therefore does not deserve time and effort. Not writing off any student. Not condemning a child to mediocrity because you can't figure out how to teach him/her.

I'm okay if they try to keep that part. But clearly adjustments are needed.
1.) Not every child will be sufficiently motivated to master algebra or biology or any other of the standardized subjects. This needs to be addressed - you cannot label a child as a "loser" for not wanting to master biology.
2.) Not every child that understands and masters the subjects of a standardized test will be able to demonstrate it through testing. This needs to be addressed - there must be other, equally acceptable ways of demonstrating mastery.
3.)And not every child has the capacity for mastery. This isn't about excuses. It's the truth. But I think the onus is on the school to declare capable until proven otherwise, and find ways to help every child make demonstrable progress.

From what I've seen, the schools ARE trying to address these things. It's just not that easy. Homelessness, transience, poverty, domestic violence and abuse and language barriers will make it even harder.

That's why I see the IDEAL of NCLB as laudable, but the execution sucks. There has to be a counterproposal that addresses the problems with NCLB without sacrificing the ideal. And I think it can only come from the bottom up.

[YvonneCa]

46. Great post. n/t