Dog Walker Shoots Armed Teen Robber, Police Say

[Mugu]

myfoxdfw.com

A man walking his dog in Terrell on Wednesday shot and critically wounded an armed 17-year-old robber, police said.

The incident happened at about 10:20 p.m. in Ben Gill Park in the 100 block of Lions Club Lane where, police said, a group of teen robbers surrounded the man.

According to investigators, when a boy in the group pulled out a gun, the man, a licensed concealed handgun owner, fired shots.

The teen was apparently struck in the head and was listed in critical condition at Parkland Hospital. His weapon was recovered at the scene and later determined to be stolen during a separate offense in Terrell, according to police.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8100189&version=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1">Complete article

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. Good for him

[originalpckelly]

5. And imagine if every LGBT person was trained with firearms...

I doubt there would be many incidents of gay bashing anymore.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. I agree

[silverojo]

27. I think it'd be hilarious

A handful of troglodytes go to beat up a gay man, who casually draws a pistol and blasts them all to hell.

I'll bet it'd make a lot of gay bashers think twice....

[natrat]

36. why do you bring lgbt into it? this could have been any kind of person

[Cid_B]

133. Well...

It seems like every issue on DU is in some very very direct way a LGBT issue.

[michreject]

46. Pink Pistols

http://www.pinkpistols.org/index2.html

[Nightflurry]

91. A fair number of us already are. n/t

[originalpckelly]

2. If I was lucky enough to have a gun during an armed robbery...

I think I'd use it too. It's called self-defense. It's unfortunate that the young man should have had such a screwed up existence that he's robbing at 17, but people don't have to roll over and take it.

It's really quite scary that the robbers were so brazen to approach a person with a dog. :(

I remember when my mom was robbed, the look on her face made me realize how this is about oh so much more than money. The money was replaceable, but she was so skittish outside walking anywhere for years, and still is today.

[emilyg]

4. Yep.

[-..__...]

13. The article didn't state what breed of dog the victim was walking.

Not that it really matters.

It could have been an ankle-bitting yippie dog, or a go for the throat man killer.

A dog is a poor choice of a personal defense mechanism against an armed assailant.

[originalpckelly]

17. True,

very true...

[LisaL]

40. Unless you got a trained dog like a german shepard.

Dogs could be trained to disarm someone.
I doubt this was a big menacing dog because that kind of dog might have scared away any would be robbers.

[slackmaster]

61. I wouldn't characterize those robbers as brazen

As much as stupid.

[cliffordu]

3. Good for him. I love the second amendment as much as all the rest of the Bill or RIGHTS.

[Joe the Liberal]

7. Good, he doesn't have to take that........

Last time I checked you still have the right to defend yourself in this country, right?

[originalpckelly]

8. And this isn't one of those cases where it was excessive force...

the teen had a gun.

[-..__...]

9. "Struck in the head and was listed in critical condition".

And still alive.

Hmmm... sounds like the only mistake the victim made in this situation was not carrying something with a little more oomph to it.

[Tejas]

12. updated at 6pm: died - wonder what type of

charges his accomplices will face now?

[-..__...]

15. Probably 1st degree murder charges.

Laws might vary from state to state, but if they were accomplices to a premeditated crime resulting in death (even if the shooting was justified), they can be charged and tried as if they had pulled the trigger themselves.

Moral of the story... be mindful of the company you keep.

[varkam]

33. Courts are split on that.

Some jurisdictions won't follow the felony murder rule where the death was a fellow accomplice who willingly participated in the underlying felony.

Also, if the killing was lawful, then I think that would make it even more doubtful (I remember reading a case about a situation sort of like this except that the police killed the accomplice and then charged the surviving perp with 1st degree murder. The appellate court vacated the conviction, partially on the grounds that if the killing was lawful then it doesn't make sense that anyone should be charged with it).

[Tejas]

107. Very good points,

guess we'll have to see how the DA and Texas court handles it. The others in the group with the dead 17yr old certainly could've been just as shocked to see him draw a weapon. It's entirely possible they're innocent.

[varkam]

118. True, and that's why I don't like the felony murder rule.

All the intent that is required is intent to participate in the underlying felony. If you don't know that your accomplice has a gun, and certainly don't think they're going to pull it out and kill someone with it, you can still catch a 1st degree murder charge just because to went along willingly with the criminal endeavor even though you did not want anyone to die. The rationale is founded on a deterrence principle, but it leads to some very unjust results, IMO. For example, there was the case (IIRC) of Kenneth Foster whose death sentence was recently commuted by Gov. Perry who was sentenced to die as a result of the felony murder rule (and so was the trigger man). The shooter was executed, and had it not been for some very strong pressure on Perry from both outside and inside of Texas, Foster would have bitten it, too.

As you might have guessed, Foster and his accomplices were black, and the victim was white.

Not to get on my soap box too much, but even if I were for the death penalty, I don't see how two people, especially when one of them was not involved at all in the killing, can be executed for one death. Kind of flies in the face of "eye for an eye" retribution and all that.

/rant off

[Gwendolyn]

121. Sometimes more than one person is involved in beating, stabbing or shooting one

person to death, so it's absolutely possible. And in that case, all the perpetrators would be sentenced with the same severity. Remember the Peter Cantu, Joe Medellin et al gang rape/murder of those two girls? That's a perfect example.

[varkam]

122. True, but that's a bit different.

If all the teens had set upon the man and beat him to death, then it's likely that they would all (or most of them) catch a murder charge anyway because they all were substantial factors in causing the death. The felony murder rule is a little bit different, and maybe I'm just misunderstanding you or I'm not explaining myself clearly enough.

Let's say, for example, that you and I decide to go rob a gas station. We go, and I have a gun (but you don't know that). We rob the clerk, and just as we're about to leave I decide that I'm going to shoot the clerk in the head. I shoot him, and he dies instantaneously. You didn't know that I had the gun, and you certainly didn't want anyone to get harmed. However, since robbery is (in most states with the FM rule) a triggering felony, you would catch a first degree murder charge in addition to myself even though you had no idea that was going to happen.

To change the situation a bit, let's say that we both have guns and we both intend to shoot the clerk once we're done. We do so. We both wound him, and he dies as a result of both of the injuries where he would not have died had just one of us shot him. There, we'd both get first degree murder charges anyway, since we both caused the death.

I'm not sure if that gets at the misunderstanding, or maybe I'm just misunderstanding you. It's been a long day, lol.

[Gwendolyn]

124. Lol, no it's me... long day too!

:)

I was actually only responding to your last sentence where you seemed to be saying it wasn't possible, generally speaking, for two to kill one.

The felony murder concept is tough, and can be especially hard on people who are naive or very young, who go along with some illegal activity not realizing what they're getting into, and end up in jail for the rest of their lives. It's heartbreaking, and I agree with you.

[guardian]

116. true, but

a .380 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the drawer at home

[Tejas]

10. Sadly, due to idiotic laws in other locales the story could've ended

much differently. Thank goodness for Texas CHL's!

[Ecumenist]

11. UPDATE... The 17 yo died at Parkland hospital.

I wish I could say that I felt sorry for him. I do feel for his family. Deceased teenager is Markee Lamar Johnson. Po' thang. I just wonder what happens to tuer kids into robbers like this....

[derby378]

14. His death is unfortunate, but he made a stupid choice

He made a conscious decision to break the law and rob an innocent man. A man who just happened to be carrying a concealed weapon and had the fortitude to use it.

My heart goes out to his family. But the good guy in this equation was able to return to his family unharmed.

[-..__...]

16. The familys response will probably be something along the lines of...

"My baby wouldn't do anything like that. He never got into any trouble before"!

Or...

"Why didn't that man just give my boy his wallet instead of just shooting him".

[RedCappedBandit]

51. As would any normal grief stricken human being..

[-..__...]

100. See...

that attitude is part of the problem.

There's no personal accountability or responsibility for ones own actions anymore... "it's the other guys fault", or "I had no other choice", or "don't blame me", etc.

It's become all too common assign blame elsewhere instead of admitting whom is really at fault.

Maybe you'd call it "normal"... I'd call it irresponsible.

[originalpckelly]

19. It's really a tragedy that his life lead down this path...

and that it should have ended so soon.

[DonEBrook]

64. Good riddance. There's been a rash of similar mugging/robberies near my mom's home in Tulsa

lately. Similar story, teenage hoodlums attacking women in public. Need to kill a lot more of 'em.

[michreject]

95. The family of the recently deceased will probably be on TV

crying about how good of a boy he was and never harmed anyone. They always do.

[Hannah Bell]

18. he's walking his dog, "a group of teen robbers" surrounds him, one of them pulls a gun -

& he, though he's got a dog on a leash, is surrounded, & the other guy drew first, somehow manages to kill the kid with the gun by getting his gun out from its concealed location?

this sounds fishy.

[originalpckelly]

20. Well, if you were merely using a gun as a method of coercion...

and didn't anticipate a person having a gun, then would you actually shoot? On the other hand, if you were the guy being robbed, wouldn't you shoot if you had a gun?

[Sanctified]

21. Doesn't sound fishy to me.

He has a concealed weapon permit, he was probably already thinking of drawing the second he was surrounded by the teens.

[Ecumenist]

22. Me either. Someone feel down B-I-G-T-I-M-E where it came to

instilling a little home training and HOPE in that child. Common sense would have helped too.

[anigbrowl]

23. Doesn't sound fishy to me, I've been inthat exact situation

Though thankfully, there were no guns involved, just a big fist fight. I'm still pissed that not one of my neighbors would open their door, though. Fuckers.

[RamboLiberal]

25. Not fishy at all to me

You only need 1 hand to draw and if you know what you're doing and have practiced it you can draw and fire in under 2 seconds.

The man may also have anticipated these kids were trouble and was thinking ahead, either having his hand on or near his firearm and mentally prepared to draw and fire.

[Gwendolyn]

26. Pure conjecture, but it's possible that since they wanted his wallet, he reached into his pocket

and pulled out a gun instead. With really fast reflexes, it's quite possible to get the other guy first.

[LisaL]

37. He likely knew what he was doing. Shooting a moving target

in the head ain't easy. That's why police are trained to go for the body mass, and not the head.

[Gwendolyn]

68. Yes, luckily, it's pretty clear that he knew what he was doing and kept his head while doing it.

[guardian]

117. maybe the head show was a "miss"

for all we know he was aiming at center mass, and "missed" and hit the head

[RamboLiberal]

131. Head shot just might've been "luck"

I've gotten the equivalent a few times in speed competition shooting.

[Xithras]

111. With a gun pointed at him, he might not have even pulled it out.

Many personal safety trainers teach this exact method to CCW holders with small firearms. Keep the firearm in a jacket or coat pocket on the side of your primary shooting hand. It will destroy the clothing, but a handgun can be fired from inside the pocket so your attackers FIRST clue that you have a gun will be the bullets hitting his body.

Yes, there are risks to using this method. Your aim suffers a little, and the gun can cause minor burns since the vented gasses are contained within a small space. There's also a risk of a slide or hammer binding and jamming on the cloth if you're firing multiple shots.

But if you are face to face with someone who is about to kill you, it may be worth the risk.

[RamboLiberal]

132. A good handgun to carry in the jacket pocket

is a hammerless snubby revolver. Only thing that could get hung up on clothing is the cylinder. And the pocket lint aren't quite as likely to get in the works.

[BoneDaddy]

48. Of course anything gun related

that may support the gun argument sounds fishy. lol

[Hangingon]

67. Why is it fishy?

If you carry a gun, you learn how to use it and practice. The unfortunate young thief probably did not practice and counted in the intimidation of odds. He made too many mistakes that night.

[Cid_B]

134. Training pays off....

Stupid 17 year old who stole a gun and probably keeps it pointed at his crotch VS. licensed trained concealed weapon owner...

Guess who won?

[bertman]

24. One down. Thousands more to go. Good shooting, dog walker.

[ConsAreLiars]

28. Killing somebody for a hundred bucks or so?

Some may approve, and value life that way, but I would rather lose the cash than try to live knowing that I had murdered someone. OK, "justifiably homicided" someone, if that language changes anything for those cowards who are so gleeful over this killing.

(edit to redirect away from the OP to those who celebrate deaths)

[Buns_of_Fire]

29. Trouble is, you never know how these things are going to end up.

The gun may not have even been loaded, for all I know. But my mother's ex-boyfriend (a cop) once told me that if someone pulls a gun on you, assume they're prepared to use it and act accordingly.

There was a story on MSNBC a night or two ago about three teens who kidnapped a 76-year-old woman, beat her, and trussed her up in the trunk of her car while they went joyriding in it. When they were finally stopped by the police, they found her, alive, still in the trunk of the car.

Lying in the trunk next to her? A shovel. Not hard to see how that story was progressing.

[ConsAreLiars]

30. The story is incomplete.

I'd guess if the kid pulled out a gun and did not just shoot the victim, the objective was not murder but robbery. If I found myself in that situation, not yet being murdered, I'd rather give up my wallet than kill someone. That's just me. Maybe you would rather kill than lose a few bucks.

(edit punctuation)

[LisaL]

34. Then by all means do so.

If you aren't prepared to shoot someone or don't know how to use a gun, then your best bet is to hope that a person who is robbing you doesn't shoot you after you give him your money.
Obviously this man knew how to use a weapon.

[natrat]

41. "not yet being murdered"-now there is some good reasoning,not

[riverdeep]

84. Yes, once you're already murdered, your options go down considerably. n/t

[BoneDaddy]

49. And of course being psychic

you would understand the intention ahead of time and be able to deduce that.

God, some people are so naive.

[DonEBrook]

70. Less naive than stupid.

:shrug:

[Mike Daniels]

63. It appears that he had the numbers to back him up without having to whip out a weapon

Your sympathy for this unfortunate "victim" of his own actions is noted.

[BoneDaddy]

78. I hear ya

I was jumped by 6 guys in NYC and I didn't have time to "guess" their intention. I just fought like an animal. Luckily to large men threw the others off and I took on the leader, after being kicked repeatedly by the rest of them for a good couple of minutes. Worse beating I ever took and the worse I ever gave anyone. I left the guy a puddle of unconsciousness on the street. If I had a gun, i would have shot them even if they were unarmed.

[greguganus]

89. Like the convenient store clerks that give up the money at gunpoint and get shot in the head anyway?

No witnesses to identify the robber. I don't care if the robber wants a stick of gum. If I'm armed and a robber pulls a gun or knife on me, he better be faster than me.

[michreject]

97. Well....................

The story is incomplete.

Why don't we ask the accomplices of the deceased for the rest of the story. I trust them to tell the truth.:sarcasm:

Bottom line:

Good guy 1
Bad guy 0

[sendero]

115. And you could ...

.... just as easily give up your wallet AND your life.

When someone pulls a gun, all bets are off.

[BoneDaddy]

81. I love the idiots, morons, fools who think that this could have been avoided

They are typically people who have NEVER been in a dangerous situation in their life where they had to defend themselves. Time moves differently when you are threatened. It is difficult to think let alone deal with the fear you are experiencing. Survival mode kicks in and I will act as if my life is in danger and will act accordingly without guilt.

[Gwendolyn]

90. You're absolutely right. It's very easy to be generous and turn the other cheek,

when you're sitting under a lap blanket in front of the keyboard... instead of facing four dudes in a darkened park, staring down the barrel of a gun as the peepee pools at your ankles.

[BoneDaddy]

101. Exactly

If you have ever been in such a position, it is impossible to judge those who have without understanding the absolute terror of such a situation.

[Mike Daniels]

106. I let my guard down one time while walking through a bad section of DC and got mugged

As soon as they struck me and I hit the ground they covered up my face/eyes with their hands as they riffed through my pockets.

I was convinced that I wasn't going to walk away from that incident alive up until they removed their hands from my face and ran off. Fortunately, after the facial swelling went down all I was left with was a black eye.

However, it did leave me with no sympathy for anyone who threatens injury or does injury to their victim in the commission of the crime. This punk got what he deserved and anyone who feels any remorse over this fact is out to lunch.

[BoneDaddy]

112. Spearhead

a great musical group puts it best.

"A piece a piece for you and a piece a piece for me, a piece a piece for every peaceful person that you see...A piece a piece for you and a piece a piece for me, but I don't act peaceful if you're not that way to me."

I am a peaceful guy until someone crosses the line of threatening me or my family and friends. Then it is no holds barred.

[Joe the Liberal]

31. Im not gleeful over the killing but......

The teen who was killed should not have been out robbing people at gun point. Whats the guy supposed to do? Hand over his wallet and hope he doesn't get shot? You can't predict whats going to happen and you cant read the mind of the guy who has you at gun point.

[ConsAreLiars]

32. As I said, it is the cowards

who are gleeful over or justify the killing. You make that point well.

[LisaL]

35. If the killing occurred as described, then it certainly appears to be

justified.

[natrat]

39. cowards?are you high-10 dudes surround one guy and his dog

and you have the nerve to use the word coward to describe people who understand the situation he was in and see that it was an unfortunate event but those 10 cowards brought it on themselves-how could you possibly defend that,sick

[jmg257]

44. Easy killing to justify, & fear has nothing to do with being able to do so. And HE is alive

and can go home to his family because he used his fear & common sense to prepare himself for just such an incident. He's ALIVE - so obviously his fear has also been jusitifed, and it always will be.

Fear is a good thing - keeps you from doing all sorts of stupid/dangerous things. Apparently the dead criminal didn't have enough, while the hero did. Smart guy.

[riverdeep]

47. Yes, I am 'gleeful'. And it is justified.

It's justified for obvious reasons, and I'm gleeful because the good guy won. One less punk in the world brutalizing people is a good thing. Maybe his compatriots will also think of another line of work.

[RedCappedBandit]

57. You're gleeful that certain circumstances ultimately resulted in the death of a 17 year old

That's what it boils down to, and that's why it's disturbing. It was clearly justified, but there is *nothing* to be "gleeful" about..

[riverdeep]

69. Those 'circumstances' were that a seventeen year old chose to hold a gun on someone.

Seventeen is old enough to know better. No one forced him to pick up a gun and do that, he did it on his own. The gleeful part comes in because I know he won't be terrorizing anyone else. Good riddance.

[RedCappedBandit]

75. That's "one" circumstance

[DonEBrook]

88. And one less thug.

...

[RedCappedBandit]

94. Did you have a point?

Your response surely has nothing to do with this conversation.

[DonEBrook]

103. Well then neither did yours. It's just that not nearly enough thugs get wacked

when they pull shit like that little now fortunately very dead prick.

[dysfunctional press]

99. a 17 year old pile of shit.

so, yeah- pretty gleeful. society is that much more safe.

[ConsAreLiars]

129. Cowards are incapable of thinking clearly.

The brain shuts down and they turn into sub-humans. In this case, obviously, the objective was robbery. Otherwise the criminals would have simply killed the victim and stripped the corpse. Those who delight in the death of those they fear, whether based on racism or xenophobia or some personal inadequacy or childhood abuse are using the same lizard brain that put that murderous subhuman into the oval office. Admit it, you also supported the Supreme Monkey's invasion of Afghanistan for the same reason, and probably the murder of a million Iraqis. Murderous cowardice.

(edit to add a clause)

[Tejas]

135. Yes, giving criminals free reign is about as cowardly as you can get

In this case, obviously, the objective was robbery.



Did the dead 17yr old tell you that?

:rofl:

[riverdeep]

142. Wow, you got all that from being happy that this guy got to make it home,

and the scumbag got what he deserved? All of a sudden I'm a hate-filled pro-Bushie? You're really reaching now.

It's true that nature imbued humans with a desire to protect oneself, and it's there for a reason. Those that DON'T have this quality, or choose to suppress it, are the ones that put everyone in danger by naively assuming the best, i.e. "they were obviously there to rob". Once someone pulls a gun, all bets are off. There are plenty of cases where the victim cooperated and had terrible things happen to them anyway.

[Gwendolyn]

143. I wish there was some magical wave of the wand...

that would make it possible for the noble and brave such as yourself to absorb all the armed robberies and threat-to-life incidents from here on in, so that us lizard people would no longer put innocent criminals in harm's way so needlessly.

[DonEBrook]

73. You sre are defending the criminal here. Why?

Are you one too?

[RedCappedBandit]

93. You take remorse for human death as defense of criminals?

[DonEBrook]

104. Humans don't rob other people. They are lower than other animals which don't either.

I say kill 'em all the instant they start that kind of shit. I sure would love to cap a few.

[RedCappedBandit]

110. I bet you do. nt

[gizmo1979]

113. Ape shall not kill ape.

Quoting planet of the apes, how quaint.

[TommyO]

38. No, somebody's life ended because of an attempted armed robbery

Not over a hundred bucks or so. Nobody was murdered here, or even "justifiably homicided", this was purely a case of self defense.

[lukasahero]

42. I agree it's not as black and white as some here may see it, however

I believe it was the gang of teenagers who first considered killing someone over $100 since they attacked the dog walker.

Would they have actually done it? We'll never know. Will the dog walker regret that his actions killed someone? I'm sure of it. It was, however, still self-defense. He would not have killed anyone had he not been held up at gun point by a group of teenagers.

We don't have to 'celebrate' the death of the teen but I'm glad we're not discussing the death of the innocent dog walker either.

[RedCappedBandit]

55. I don't think anyone will argue that it was self defense

However, it is disturbing that people around here are glad / joking around about this incident.

[lukasahero]

56. I agree with that

but I am no longer capable of being surprised by people any more.

[Marr]

76. Why?

Let's be honest. Are you saying people should pretend to be sad about a 17 year old thug getting what he was prepared to dish out? Personally, I find the false remorse more disturbing.

[RedCappedBandit]

79. False remorse?

Are you joking? Sorry, I'm not sick enough to be happy about the death of a kid whose life was probably so fucked up and miserable that he decided armed robbery was a good idea. You're fucking right I'm remorseful when shit like that happens. That is not to say I'm glad the intended victim was able to return home to his family.
So, to answer your question, NO. I'm not saying you should PRETEND to be sad when SAD things happen. I'm saying, if you're happy about such fucked up shit, then it disturbs me. Got it?

[Mike Daniels]

98. If the now deceased had any balls he would have taken his chances with a security guarded bank

vs. what apppeared to him to be to an unarmed victim.

In light of how he went about his crime I really don't care what his life was like. Once he chose to use the threat of force in the commission of his crime he went beyond any realm of sympathy and went straight to violent thug.

While I don't necessarily rejoice at his death I refuse to shed any tears over it or condemn society for whatever it supposedly did to "force" him to rob someone at gunpoint.

[RedCappedBandit]

109. "Balls" has nothing to do with it

Sorry it is so hard for some of you to understand "compassion"
I'm happy the victim was able to go home and see his family, like I said. That doesn't prevent me from being able to see that this is tragic all around. I don't derive joy out of human suffering.

[Marr]

102. No, not "happy".

I'm not "happy" that this guy was killed. But I'm not remorseful about it, either. I honestly don't see how anyone could be sad about some thug they've never met who ended getting himself killed during an assault, but whatever. You can spend your sympathy wherever you like.

[RedCappedBandit]

54. Yes, this thread his disturbing to say the least. nt

[gollygee]

58. If someone pulled a gun on me, and I had a gun and I could, I'd shoot too

You don't know whether you'll just give cash and everything will be OK. You could get shot anyway. I don't have a gun, and I don't "celebrate deaths", but I can see why he shot the guy.

[Mike Daniels]

60. The problem is giving them your money is no guarantee that you'll walk away alive

After robbing you, what if the parasites (and yes, that what this kid and his friends were) decide they don't want any witnesses?

Giving them your money did you a whole lot of good in that case didn't it.

I'm not going to second guess anyone who decides to return force with force in this type of instance.

[slackmaster]

65. When someone is pointing a gun at you, there is a lot more than money at stake

Read the story again and think about it.

[Marr]

71. You could say exactly the same thing about the 17 year old.

It's all too rare that people who are willing to kill for next to nothing end up dying for it.

[chrisa]

74. Not just for money...

Many robbers shoot their victims after they rob them. I would say there was an even bigger chance, since there was nobody around (I'm guessing).

The dog walker would have been dead. Factor in the mob mentality and guns, and you know what happens.

[TheFriendlyAnarchist]

82. My dad once told me some good advice

Treat every fight like a barfight. The second you pull out a weapon, YOU had better be damned well prepared to use it, because if the other guy sure as hell will.

[Toucano]

83. Boo Hoo!

The coward is the little shit who put a gun in someone's face to threaten him. FOR ANY REASON.


Murder?

Justifiable homicide?

How about EXTERMINATION of HUMAN VERMIN?

Perfectly acceptable.

Defending the guilty over the innocent is not a liberal value.

[varkam]

119. I don't think that either emotion is appropriate.

I certainly don't think that this is something that should be cheered because, at the end of the day a kid lost his life. It's tragic, no matter what way you slice it. On the other hand, I don't think that you can fault the shooter. Essentially, the kid didn't really give him a choice when he drew down on him. I would like to think that I would have enough trust to believe that he just wouldn't kill me - as if I knew for certain that no one would die if I just gave up the guap then I'd be happy to hand it over - but there's no way to be sure of that.

[jmg257]

43. Sounds like a good shoot, out-numbered and out-drawn, and wins - good for him! nt

[michreject]

45. Some unknown person somewhere is safe because of this

Not one tear shed.

[riverdeep]

50. Exactly. Even if you give your wallet away and cravenly hope they don't kill you

this time, who knows what they'll do the next time to someone else. You rob someone often enough, violence will happen eventually.

[michreject]

62. Some can't get past their own self interests

They say just give them the money and the crooks will go on their merry way. Until they mug someone else. That person may not be so lucky.

[slackmaster]

66. Maybe several people are because of this

No tears here either.

[varkam]

120. Have you no humanity?

That's more of a rhetorical question, but don't mistake that I'm thinking the shooter is some sort of bad-guy here. I think he did what he had to do, and I don't think he is blameworthy in doing it - but what if it had been your kid? Or not even that - can't you set aside your indignation for merely a second out of a basic respect for human life?

[michreject]

123. Not to someone who intended to cause grief

to another human being.

[varkam]

126. I suppose that you have never done anything stupid. Congratulations.

I was hoping my question wasn't merely rhetorical. It appears I hoped in vain.

[Gwendolyn]

130. Stupid is getting really drunk and throwing up on your shoes.

Four guys threatening an innocent person with death is a tad beyond that. it's fine if you want to think the whole world is your bud and you have sympathy for would-be killers, but why berate people who stand up for the innocent?

[varkam]

137. That is not what either myself nor they are doing.

If you read my post in this ST, I said that the kid gave him no choice. Were I in the shooter's position, then I probably would have done the same thing. Killing is sometimes necessary, and I wish that it weren't, but I think that it is a fact of life.

What I wouldn't do, however, is become a cheerleader for killing. I've known both people that have killed and people that have been killed - either side isn't very fun. I have known people who have committed violent crimes, and I have been the victim of violent crime myself.

And I don't think the world "is (my) bud". This world can be a rough place. Thankfully, we live in America where things are generally pretty tame compared with some other parts of the world, but even here things can get pretty nasty.

I just don't think that it is an either/or proposition, though. That you can either have sympathy for one side or the other, because at the end of the day, both "sides" have people on them. It seems as though that if you don't want to punish criminals just a little more than the last person who spoke, then all of a sudden you're "berating people who stand up for the innocent". I'm sorry, but I disagree strongly.

[Gwendolyn]

139. By writing the words...

"I suppose that you have never done anything stupid. Congratulations," you're basically reducing a violent criminal's actions to childish hijinks. With sarcasm pointed at the poster I might add. Perhaps you don't see that.

[varkam]

140. That is your interpretation - not mine.

Had the kid lived, my guess is that he would have done several year in prison for it - which would have been deserved. I'm sorry if me not joining in on the two-minutes hate means that I regard his actions as childish hijinks. Also note, though, that normally the death penalty is reserved for capital murder - not armed robbery.

And perhaps if you read the post that I was responding to, the individual that I was engaged in discussion couched it in terms of "causing grief" to someone else. I'm assuming that does not display what you regard to be the sufficient indignation. Maybe you should go jump all over them, as well.

Have a good night.

[michreject]

136. I sure have, but never a felony

but I never expected sympathy from anyone. I accepted responsibility for my actions.

[varkam]

138. You've missed the point.

Never mind. Have a good one.

[RedCappedBandit]

52. Unfortunate situation. nt

[jbane]

53. The robber forced the issue

If the man walking the dog is not threatened there is no shooting.
Sorry the kid made such a dumb choice and I'm glad the potential victim
was able to protect himself.

[slackmaster]

59. Another GD thread about this incident got moved to the Texas state forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=180x55389

[leftyladyfrommo]

72. Jeesh. I walk dogs for a living.

I'm a lot more afraid of loose dogs than I am of people with guns.

[DonEBrook]

77. Yeah, the damn epidemic of armed strays robbing people in the park

has to be checked.
:eyes:

[leftyladyfrommo]

80. LOL

Most of the loose dogs I encounter aren't strays. They are just out in their yards off leash.

I do worry about running into robbers or muggers tho. I go into empty houses all the time. I've thought about carrying a gun for protection. But I think that would really put my customers off - having an armed person in their homes. And I would only endanger myself and probably shot myself in the foot.

Some kind of really loud alarm would probably work a lot better.

[DonEBrook]

85. Get yourself a concealed gun permit (and training if you need it) your customers don't have to know

you are protecting themselves. Coincidentally, my sister in St. Louis does the same thing you do and carries a gun. She says her customers know and approve...
An alarm is better than nothing I guess but not much.

[leftyladyfrommo]

86. Believe me, I've thought about it.

But I don't know anything about guns. I've never had a problem so far but it sure could happen if someone just happened to notice that the people were gone and someone was coming each day to check on the house. I do work in a couple of areas of Kansas City that are kind of rough. I try to only go into those areas in daylight - but even that could be dangerous.

I've always thought that target shooting would be kind of a fun hobby.

[gizmo1979]

114. Republican's have been trying

to get concealed carry laws passed in WI for a longggg time.I always wonder what they are so afraid of.I don't hear too many dems working for the conceal carry law.Just wondering,which side are you on.

[DonEBrook]

87. Here's an update...not a lot new but of interest

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=8100189&version=8&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1

[greguganus]

92. And on that same page, "Robber shoots store clerk in back of the head". But to some here

the robber is the victim. Sometimes this place should be named Bizarro Underground.

[marketcrazy1]

96. I feel for the parents of the dead teen

but even more for the man who was forced to take his life, it must be very hard to know you are responsible for the death of another human being. i hope the man who shot him ( the robber ) understands it was not his fault.. even though it was necessary. it will be hard to live with. I feel sorry for him!

[DonEBrook]

105. I saw that just after I replied. Yup you sure called it right there.

:eyes:
There seems to be a few around here who hate guns owned by law-abiding citizens but think they're a-ok when the lowlifes use them. I don't get it.

[asteroid2003QQ47]

108. Died? Damn, now he can't be a poster child for *DU Prison Builders LLC.*

More scum like that perp and there will be no excuse for building
evermore prisons. Boo friggin hoo!

[depakid]

125. And in other news: Man Killed in Byron Gun Accident

A man was accidentally shot to death in Byron Monday when his handgun discharged, Byron police chief Chief Wesley Cannon said.

Cannon said 51-year-old Edward Paul Reehling from Fort Valley was getting out of his car with his handgun and other items at Jug Heads Cycle and Pawn Shop at 116 Peachtree Parkway when the gun went off.

http://www.13wmaz.com/article/20081217/FEATURES/81217028

For every story like the OP, there are many more of these....

[Pavulon]

127. 2 dead stupid fuckers

one died robbing someone, one died because he did not respect ( or someone else did not respect) a firearm. His handgun did not discharge, he discharged it, thus he is a dead person.

Fuck the many more, th emany more text while driving, or die reaching for mcnuggets. ban them tasty chicken bits for their horrible tool on humanity.. It is written in stone amendment. amend the constitution, like the prohibition idiots did, or just fucking deal.

Really. Done issue.

it is 2.30 est, so take this for what it is.

[1]

128. good for you, dog walker. n/t.

[MrSlayer]

141. The kid got exactly what he asked for.

Live by the gun, die by the gun.