Operation "Make Rick Warren Eat His Words" IS ON!

[ColbertWatcher]

How many videos of Rick Warren can you find that show him saying something hateful?

Against gays?

Against women?

Post everything you can find (in video or his writing) that shows Rick Warren's true radical, out-of-the-mainstream, fringe beliefs.

Let's make him eat his words.

[billyoc]

1. Are their any videos of him saying something nice?

:shrug:

[ColbertWatcher]

10. His hate is always shrouded by "sweet" religious talk. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

57. "sweet" religious talk.

:puke:

[scheming daemons]

2. Have you seen the guy? He'll eat ANYTHING!

[lapfog_1]

3. Easy, look up Warren's P.E.A.C.E. awards... sounds harmless, right?

Until you understand exactly what the acronym stands for:

http://www.thepeaceplan.com/

And then drill down to the "E" Equip Leaders.

Basically nothing more than what we saw with the videos from Sarah Palin's church. A Theocracy.

Only those who are servants of JESUS are equipped to lead nations. Any nation.

[ColbertWatcher]

16. According to Wikip*dia ...

... P.E.A.C.E. stands for

"Promote reconciliation - Equip servant leaders - Assist the poor - Care for the sick - Educate the next generation."

I find the "educate" one to be the most disturbing, considering he believes that homosexuals can be "cured."

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

20. Equiping servant leaders disturbs me more.

The idea is to have their flock infiltrate positions of leadership in the private and public sector. Or to convert the current leaders. Yay dominionism.

[lapfog_1]

22. Yeah, in the great "reaching out"

that is taking place between Obama and Warren...

I wonder who thinks they are converting the other to their point of view?

[ColbertWatcher]

25. Good point. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

23. Besides putting my post #11 on t-shirts, how can we connect Warren to Palin? n/t

[EFerrari]

4. In his press release today he says he wants to model civility

but at his website, it says gay people cannot be members. :shrug:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4680598&mesg_id=4680598

eta: link to ruggerson's thread

[ColbertWatcher]

5. Excellent. The best weapon we have against haters like Warren is ...

... to use their own words against them.

We know he's a bigot, all we have to do is make him explain his own hate.

He can have whatever religion he wants. But, he has no right to hide his hate or dress it up as "love."

[bleever]

9. If civility is being soft and cheerful about

marginilizing and excluding LGBT people, and equating them to pedophiles, it doesn't seem conducive to civil rights.

I'm torn about this in some ways, but for Warren to claim he's modeling civility is him proving that his definition of "civil" excludes about 10% of us.

And that "civil" ain't right.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. It's the soft bigotry of 21st Century American religious hatred. n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

6. I submit Warren will exploit his opportunity to speak at Obama's inagural to ...

... spread his crap globally.

Here is a video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptGh_xU2PCc showing his desire to gain a world-wide audience.

I'd like to know more about how much money this guy makes and where he stands in regards to the "Prosperity Gospel."

If anyone knows anything about this, I'd appreciate whatever links you can post.

[Dragonfli]

18. "Prosperity Gospel" sounds like Calvinism to me, a hater from way way back

It may be fruitful to look up his theological basis for the obvious link to Calvin.
Most sane Theologists do not consider Calvinism to be very "christian" in the Jesus sense.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

19. Prosperity Theology has been linked to Calvinism.

Of course, Calvinism's still alive and well in this country.

[ColbertWatcher]

21. Ugh. I'm not up on my theology, can you give me a little primer, please? n/t

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

27. Primer: Neo-Calvinism and Prosperity Theology

Prosperity Gospel is the belief that people who are truly faithful to Christ will not only prosper spiritually but also materially. It is popular among Sarah Palin's ilk -Pentecostals and other charismatic churches.

It was formed in the crucible of American Calvinism as practiced by the Evangelical movement. What's noteworthy of this brand of Calvinism is its concern for following "law". Thus saith Wiki: "Law is, rather, the order for creation (or creation ordinances) established by God and includes a variety of types of cultural norms including physiological, psychological, logical, historical, linguistic, social, economic, aesthetic, juridical, and faith norms." By the same token American Calvinists (really neo-Calvinists) are very concerned about the "cultural mandate" - the idea that humanity is supposed to cultivate, develop, and transform all of creation.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. "Thus saith Wiki" I feel blessed now.

Thank you for summarizing, posting and not just linking to the Wikip*dia page!

So, they basically believe what they believe and will alter the world to force those beliefs on everyone else.

[Dragonfli]

31. If they are Calvinists it is even worse than that, read on in my post below /nt

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

38. The most extreme of them, yes

[Dragonfli]

28. He was a real sweet guy -

John Calvin
It is now time to turn to the next major figure of the Protestant reformation, John Calvin. It was Calvin's theology, Calvinism, which left the most profound influence on Protestantism. Yet Calvin was a man that was as merciless as the Catholic Church he despises.
Calvin, like Luther, was anxious to recapture the essence of primitive Christianity. Thus he drew up a constitution for a Christian theocratic state for Geneva, the city where he lived from 1536 to his death in 1564. In his constitution, the death penalty is the prescription for blasphemy, heresy and witchcraft. He also advocated the death penalty for adultery. The prescribed form of death penalty for adultery was drowning for the woman and decapitating for the man. <1>

Based on Calvin's constitution, a supreme council consisting of some clergymen and laymen were set up in Geneva. According to the historian H.A.L. Fisher it was:

a sombre, fault finding inquisitional government which, taken as a pattern in other lands, was a source of much cruelty and suffering in the new world as well as the old. <2>


The theocratic state was as intolerant as any Catholic inquisition. Anyone who even hinted at unbelief would be summarily executed. A man named Monet was beheaded, at the behest of Calvin, for being a "practical atheist". Calvin believed that execution of dissenters was important not simply because it rid the world of heretics but also the public staging of it will send fear into the hearts of would-be apostates. Thus when a prominent citizen of Geneva, Jacques Gruet, complained about Calvin's increasing control over the affairs of the city, Calvin had Gruet executed by being burned alive. Sometimes he would give dissenters a choice between death or repudiating their works by making these heretics personally burn their books themselves. <3>

The case of the Spanish polymath Miguel Servetus (1511-1553) must never be forgotten for it showed how intolerant and inhumane a man deeply imbued in Christian theology, as Calvin doubtless was, can be. In 1546, Servetus sent some of his writings to Calvin; asking for the latter’s opinion. The Spaniard was a Unitarian, and it showed in those writings. Servetus was, at that time, being hounded by the Catholic authorities in France and asked Calvin for permission to come to Geneva. This was what Calvin wrote to a friend regarding this request:

Servetus has just sent me...a long volume of his ravings. If I consent he will come here, but I will not give my word; for should he come, if my authority is of any avail, I will not suffer to get him out alive. <4>


The last sentence above, which I have italicised for emphasis, showed that Calvin definitely wanted Servetus dead. Somehow Servetus managed to escape from the clutches of the inquisition in France and fled, of all places, to Geneva. There he was recognized and condemned to death by the theocratic court and was burned at the stake for heresy. <5> Calvin wholly approved of this. Given below is what he wrote a few months after the execution of Servetus:

One should forget all mankind when his glory is in question...God does not allow whole towns and populations to be spared, but will have the walls razed and the memory of the inhabitants destroyed and all things ruined as a sign of His utter detestation, lest the contagion spread. <6>


as J.M. Robertson relates:

Calvin's language at every stage of the episode , his heartless accounts of the victim's sufferings, and his gross abuse of him afterwards, tell of the ordinary spirit of the bigot - incensed at opposition and exulting in vengeance. <7>


Of course, being true to the Bible, Calvin defended the right of the ecclesiastical courts’ execution of witches.

Back to the top


References
1. Roberts, History of the World: p551
2. Fisher, A History of Europe: p550
3. Hecht, Doubt: p277
Johnson, A History of Christianity: p289
4. ibid: p289
5. Fisher, A History of Europe: p550
Johnson, A History of Christianity: p289
6. ibid: p290
7. Robertson, History of Christianity: p206


I believe they are Calvinist and believe in the "doctrine of the elect"
And "predistination"

Basicaly god picks the saved before they were born, no matter how fucked up they behave, they will still go to heaven. Alternately - everyone else "those not in their church" are depraved before birth (the actual word they use).

Modern Calvinists actualy twist some shit he talked about (as if he wasn't twisted enough already) regarding the beautitudes to claim the rich are blessed - ergo, they must be the elect of god. The poor are obviously depraved, destined for hell

Real inclusive aren't they?

[ColbertWatcher]

32. Damn.

So, if everyone and everything is predestined, why does Warren believe gays can be changed?

If God has created gays to be the way they are (and Warren himself has stated many times that God wants people to be themselves) why do they hate gay people?

I was never good at philosophy, so this is all very confusing.

(I was always better at math and science.)

[Dragonfli]

49. I think because THEY are confused

They have built a theological philosophy that has perfected the art of rationalizing everything.

Be who you are, whatever that is was predestined, but you should change to what they preach :crazy: , if it is not as they wish, you were damned before you were born, so they don't have to worry about any part they may have had in it, or not had in changing it.

Having "infiltrated" a Calvin based fundy church for a year while I was studying comparative religion, all I can say for them is they do not really sweat the pain of others (they do love to proclaim loudly how they care about the poor, but it is mostly to impress each other) and they have a strange love of the wealthy (mostly unstated - but many make no bones about it - it is like a scorecard of "grace" to some of them). Most disturbing to me is they honestly believe nothing they do will "revoke" their "predestined" salvation. Think about what this last part means or implies, they are free to cause as much harm as they like, no sweat, god still has them on the favorite list. Scary in IMHO (look at the actions of their origin leader, he typifies their hypocrisy and psychopathic lack of empathy)

The gay hatred comes from a cherry picked literal interpretation of their book, nothing new to you there I am sure.

Point is they are Dominionist to the core, completely non-tolerant by decree, and potentially as dangerous as John Calvin himself was.

I will have some time this weekend to look into this assholes theological platform, I know most of the code words, I will be able to tell if they are hard core Calvinists or just influenced greatly by him.

You should know since fundies have declared war on the gay community, that the fundamentalist Christians in america are all influenced by Calvinism, it s just a question of how hard core they are about it.

Obama is dead wrong about any notion of "reaching out" to them, they believe without question that you either use that hand to grasp their beliefs and be converted - or they will leave only a bloody stump. They have zero interest in compromise. Period.

[Enthusiast]

34. Who needs Jesus when you have Calvin?

:sarcasm:

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

24. He actually opposes Prosperity Theology.

He also has been reported to reinvest his paycheck from being a pastor into the church's mission.

http://www.religionlink.org/tip_060227.php

Well, at least he's doing something right.

But, seriously, he's frustrating me. Besides the anti-gay quotes that have been flying around here the last two days, I can't find much negative on him. I can't find any quotes about how he keeps women subservient to men in the ministry, and his brand of dominionism is dolled up with social justice so no one notices the inherently anti-everything-that-isn't-his streak to it. And everything else I can find are theological arguments that the larger public wouldn't care about.

[Dragonfli]

29. That just means he isn't twisting that part of calvinism.

Modern Calvinism twists John Calvin's words on prosperity, Calvin made the same sort of proclamaitions himself, Look for "predestination" or "the doctrine of the Elect" This guy just smells of Calvin.

edited to add

“In the midst of plenty we must guard against greedy excess, lest we choke ourselves and bring this curse upon us: Woe to you who are filled. If we are to be filled, it is in a different way–by contemplating God’s face, as we read in Psalm 16. We should regard material possessions simply as props to help us, until we see the Father face to face. He is our bliss and happiness. By all means let us laugh, but in the manner of those who are ready to weep should that be God’s will. Our joy should be joined with sadness, and with compassion for those who suffer. No one should live apart from others, and all should rejoice whenever God’s name is honored. Yes, rejoice, even when we have reason to feel sad and gloomy. Conversely, it may be that we are fine, in the best of spirits. But supposing there is some dire trouble in the church, or God’s name is blasphemed, held up to shame or ridicule–that should give us cause for grief, grief deeper even than the joy we felt. At such a time we ought to moderate the happiness which earthly blessings bring. We ought, as the proverb says, to mix water with our wine.”

John Calvin, Sermons on the Beatitudes (Banner of Truth), pp. 77-80.

Also if you have not yet - read my post 28 - Calvinism is very dangerous, and that "posperity Gospel" shit is a dog wistle meaning Calvin to other Fundies.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. That's not rejecting Prosperity Gospel, that's Tax Shelter Gospel! n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

7. Link inside for Warren's "donut" crack.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YS1_aNqFrEI

[ColbertWatcher]

8. Warren compares abortion to the Holocaust.

http://christianpost.com/article/20081217/rick-warren-not-satisfied-with-making-abortions-rare.htm

[boppers]

15. Oh, he gave them food and water!

Did he tell them that (good) works will make them free?

(Oh, and the dude knows nothing about anthropology, many cultures have variants on marriage, it is by no means universally a man and a woman.)

[ColbertWatcher]

17. He thinks Jesus works for Krispy Kreme! (And post #11) n/t

[ColbertWatcher]

11. Rick Warren can see a gay donut shop from his church.

Just a random thought regarding America's favorite bigot.

[anaxarchos]

12. Not just "words"...

This is from the Military Religious Freedom Foundation:

http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/weekly-watch/12-12-08/inbox.html

"They now have "Christian" versions of the extremely violent video game genre. One such was designed and released by a company headed by Troy Lyndon, reportedly a close associate of Rick Warren, leader of the "mega-church" at Saddleback. The game is set in a post-Millenial New York in which part of your "duties" as a member of the "good guys" (called the "Christian Tribulation Forces") are to either convert or kill non-Christian people, who are all considered forces of the "Anti-Christ's Global Peacekeeping Force" (obviously the UN). See: http://www.religioustolerance.org/hatevgame.htm for details. It has apparently also gotten support and good reviews by Dr. Dobson's group, Focus on the Family (who normally rail against vid game violence) and other purportedly "Christian" groups."

http://justanothercoverup.com/?p=7

Imagine: you are a foot soldier in a paramilitary group whose purpose is to remake America as a Christian theocracy, and establish its worldly vision of the dominion of Christ over all aspects of life. You are issued high-tech military weaponry, and instructed to engage the infidel on the streets of New York City. You are on a mission - both a religious mission and a military mission — to convert or kill Catholics, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, gays, and anyone who advocates the separation of church and state - especially moderate, mainstream Christians. Your mission is “to conduct physical and spiritual warfare”; all who resist must be taken out with extreme prejudice. You have never felt so powerful, so driven by a purpose: you are 13 years old. You are playing a real-time strategy video game whose creators are linked to the empire of mega-church pastor Rick Warren, best selling author of The Purpose Driven Life.

The game, slated for release by October 2006 in advance of the Christmas shopping rush, has been previewed at video game exhibitions, and reviewed by major newspapers and magazines. But until now, no fan or critic has pointed out the controversial game’s connection to Mr. Warren or his dominionist agenda.

[ColbertWatcher]

14. A Dominionist, eh?

Too bad we couldn't get the GOP-controlled media to cover the Dominionists during Palin's fifteen minutes.

We could easily connect the two.

Interesting note about the video game, thank you for posting.

[Kaleko]

13. The mere mentioning of his name is an insult to God

and a public hazard. :)

[Are_grits_groceries]

35. The predestined are sarcastically referred to as the "frozen chosen." nt

[ColbertWatcher]

42. LOL! I like that! n/t

[Are_grits_groceries]

36. We need a site or something

where all the material can be collected and shown in all it's glory.

People might not come to a sight called DU.

Call it "Warren's Words" or whatever - Make it a site that points out his hate against anybody.

[ColbertWatcher]

40. I have a page for him on the Truthiness Encyclopedia.

http://www.wikiality.com/Rick_Warren

Under the section
"Things Rick Believes In"

Create a free account and start posting.

[Dragonfli]

60. I love it! Stephen made it perfect!

I was unaware Colbert had his own wikipedia - priceless!!!

It renders moot my intent to offer a web-site on my dedicated server for the purposes of collection.

Since you don't need it I will use this post to shamelessly promote another fellow DUers gallery website that I host on that server http://swamp-rat.com/4images/ (don't get the wrong idea, it's a favor I do sometimes, I don't charge Swampy anything and I am not looking for business, it's only one of my hobbies)

btw I answered your last question

[Swamp Rat]

37. Proof Rick Warren is either stupid or insane:

Anyone who thinks GWB "has done more for global heath" than any other "president or political leader" is either fucking bat shit insane, or dumber than a bag of hammers.

[ColbertWatcher]

41. Good point, especially considering that Dumbya did not do a thing for AIDS ...

... without first putting a condition on receiving the assistance.

Namely that countries desperately in need of medicine had to agree to follow America's failed "abstinence only" policy before anyone would agree to help.

[Mari333]

39. kick

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

43. He's slipping up on his "gay is a choice" stance.

Taken from another thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4684813

Warren said on O'Reilly's radio program, "I have a natural tendency to have sex with beautiful women, but that doesn't make it right." (This was in a discussion concerning homosexuality as a natural occurrence).

First, I think he meant to say "I have a natural tendency to want to have sex with beautiful women," but who knows? Maybe his wife is very accepting/dominated/angry.

Second, Warren's used of "natural tendency" suggests that Warren believes homosexuality is a natural inclination in spite of what he has said before.

So which is it pastor?

[ColbertWatcher]

44. Interesting.

I doubt any woman has a natural tendency to have sex with him.

Talk about unnatural.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

45. Warren supports war with Iran.

From a recent interview. Hannity and Colmes, Dec. 8, 2008

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,461685,00.html

HANNITY: All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. OK, so with that understanding, there's always going to be human evil. The question is, can you eradicate it. In other words, the whole issue came up. Can you — can you talk to rogue dictators.

Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust, wants to wipe Israel off the map, is seeking nuclear weapons.

WARREN: Yes.

HANNITY: I think we need to take him out.

WARREN: Yes.

HANNITY: Am I advocating something dark, evil or something righteous?

WARREN: Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped. And I believe...

HANNITY: By force?

WARREN: Well, if necessary. In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers. Not good-doers. Evildoers.

...

WARREN: And the Bible also says that governments can do things that I'm not supposed to do as an individual. God has authorized — God has not put the law in my hands. He's put the law in the government's hands.

HANNITY: But he's also put the law in your heart, so you know right from wrong. And you know, the apostles understood things because Jesus — Jesus revealed it to their hearts. So don't we have to become like the apostles and understand in our heart what's right and wrong?

WARREN: Well, ultimately, the heart of the issue is an issue of the heart. And that's why I'm a pastor, not a politician. Because I think only — only God can change hearts. And only God can take the evil out. I don't think you can legislate the evil out of people.

(Notice he doesn't specify where it says that.)

[ColbertWatcher]

46. What is it with cultists that hate Jews, but ...

... are always trying to be identified with them and co-opt the Holocaust?

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

47. Ooops

Dupe

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

48. Apparently, Warren does support a form of Prosperity Theology

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/make-a-buck-but-for...

"THERE is nothing wrong with being Christian and rich, says the Californian preacher Rick Warren, just so long as you give most of your wealth away.

...

"I don't think it is a sin to be rich, it's a sin to die rich," he told the Herald earlier. "I want people to make as much money as they can as long as they give it away as much as they can." He is the author of The Purpose Driven Life, a 40-day strategy for spiritual transformation that is reputedly the biggest-selling hardback in American publishing history.

Warren, a conservative, says he has led by example and has given away 90 per cent of his royalties, and has returned every cent paid to him by his own church. It doesn't make him a poor man - his royalties run into the millions - but he says it makes him a better man."

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

50. Warren's Abortion/Holocaust quote

From the Interview with Beliefnet.
Article: http://christianpost.com/article/20081217/rick-warren-not-satisfied-with-making-abortions-rare.htm

“Don’t tell me it should be rare. That’s like saying on the Holocaust, ‘Well, maybe we could save 20 percent of the Jewish people in Poland and Germany and get them out and we should be satisfied with that,’” Warren said. “I’m not satisfied with that. I want the Holocaust ended.”

Warren recalls a meeting with Democrat congressfolk:

“And I went around the room and when I came to Chuck Schumer I said, ‘Chuck, how bad, if you had a candidate and he was right in every single area that you agreed with but he’s a Holocaust denier?’

“‘There’s no way you’re gonna vote for a holocaust denier,’” Warren recalled telling the Jewish American politician. “That’s a single issue issue for you.”

With that said, Warren told the Democrats, “For these people who believe life begins at birth, all right, at conception, it’s an American holocaust. They believe that there’s 40 million people who should be here. And to them that’s an issue.”

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

51. Apparently, the social gospel is/was Marxism in sheeps clothing

http://blog.beliefnet.com/stevenwaldman/2008/12/rick-warren-social-gospel-marx.html

He argued that while evangelicals used to care about social justice, in the 20th century they'd come to care only about the soul. Meanwhile, "social gospel" Protestants cared only about the body, believing, "you don't really need to care about Jesus' personal salvation any more. You don't really have to care about redemption, the cross, repentance. All we need to do is redeem the social structures of society and if we make those social structures better then the world will be a better place. ...Really, in many ways it was just Marxism in Christian clothing."

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

52. Warren holds atheists cannot hold presidency

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/warren-says-candidates-have-believe-god

In an interview with Larry King dating to August, 2008:

KING: Rick Warren is our guest. Rick, let me ask you a couple of Rick Warren questions. OK?

WARREN: OK.

KING: Does a person have to believe in god to be president?

WARREN: I would say so. I couldn't vote for a person who was an atheist, because I would think -- I think the presidency is a job too big for one person. I would think there's a little arrogance that says, I don't need anybody else. I could vote for someone of different religions than mine, but I don't know that I could personally vote for somebody who denies that we need somebody greater than ourselves to help us.

[ColbertWatcher]

55. This from the guy who says he doesn't get involved in policy.

I guess he has a Separate, but equal policy when it comes to Separating Church and State.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

53. Warren and women

Below are some quotes taken from an article found in Rick Warren's "ministry toolbox". While it is not penned by Warren, his using the article to educate and support his ministers certainly suggests he agrees with it - http://legacy.pastors.com/RWMT/article.asp?ID=122&ArtID=3908

1. Submission does not mean women are under the authority of men in general.
I love the King James Version’s rendition of Ephesians 5:22 “Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands.” Guess what? Wives aren’t asked to submit to anyone else’s husband! Just their own!

...

Paul’s primary directive to women dealt with submission, while his primary directive to men dealt with love. Could it be that he was targeting the areas most likely to be our weaknesses?

...

The Greek word for “submit” is hupotasso. Hupo means “under” and tasso means “to place in order.” The compound word hupotasso means “to place under or in an orderly fashion.” Paul didn’t dislike women, he liked order! He advocated order in the church, order in government, order in business, and, yes, order in the home.

...

God granted women a measure of freedom in submission that we can learn to enjoy.
It is a relief to know that as a wife and mother I am not totally responsible for my family. I have a husband to look to for counsel and direction. I can rely on his toughness when I am too soft and his logic when I am too emotional.

...

Think of marriage as a three-legged stool. The legs are a submissive wife, a loving husband, and Christ. All three legs must be in place for marriage to work as God intended. A wife submitting to an unloving husband is as lopsided as a loving husband sacrificing for a domineering wife.

Special thanks to Feministe for filtering through the essay.- http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/12/18/ladies-lets-get-the-painful-part-over-first/

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

54. Warren's reputation for open-mindedness contradicts Sunday sermons

Link: http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-11-14/how-rick-warren-became-a-media-darling-in-spite-of-himself/

A week before Election Day, here is what “America’s Pastor” told the 22,000 members of his Saddleback Church in Orange County: “Here’s an interesting thing: there are about 2% of Americans are homosexual, gay, lesbian people. We should not let two percent of the population determine—to change a definition of marriage that has been supported by every single culture and every single religion for 5,000 years. This is not even just a Christian issue, it is a humanitarian and human issue, that God created marriage for the purpose of family, love and procreation. I urge you to support Proposition 8 and to pass that on.”

...

By the start of the 2008 presidential race, Warren was a household name with unparalleled credibility. Unsurprisingly, both the McCain and Obama campaigns leapt at the opportunity to appear at “The Saddleback Civic Forum on the President,” a nationally televised q&a session on August 17 with Warren as moderator. “I'm not going to play 'gotcha' with one candidate and not with the other,” Warren promised beforehand. “This way, it will be totally fair.”

But the forum proved more nettlesome for Obama than Warren’s pitch suggested. In front of his audience of conservative evangelicals, Warren asked Obama: “At what point does a baby get human rights, in your view?” Knowing that answering the question directly would only further alienate most evangelicals from him, Obama replied haltingly, “Answering that question with specificity, you know, is above my pay grade.” The following day, right-wing radio hosts fulminated about Obama’s answer. James Dobson, who had once vowed to never vote for McCain, cited it as a reason for his endorsement of the Arizona senator. For his part, Warren chuckled at Obama’s response during an appearance on a conservative radio show.

Warren might have gamed the media somewhat, but he has never lied to reporters about his core beliefs. He freely admitted to a Wall Street Journal reporter that the principal difference between him and Dobson is “a matter of tone.” Even the public relations firms responsible for burnishing Warren’s image seem mystified by the press’s worshipful portrayal of their client. “ support of Prop 8 is consistent with the statement of belief that his church stands on, which is a biblical belief,” Cole of A. Larry Ross Communications told me. “As far as being America’s pastor or whatever, well, that’s just a title the media has given him.”

[ColbertWatcher]

56. Thank you for posting all these. Great work. n/t

[Phentex]

58. kick

kick

[earth mom]

59. K & R!

:thumbsup:

[yardwork]

61. kicking again.

[Lilith Velkor]

62. Fuck yeah, I'm kickin this shit.

:kick:

[cliffordu]

63. NOW you're talking.

[ColbertWatcher]

64. Thank you. n/t