I don't think DUers supporting the Warren choice are homophobes or those opposed are anti-Obama

[Bucky]

I think anyone suggesting (1) that I'm opposed to Obama or that I'm being an extremist by wanting to speak out against Warren or (2) that people who want to stick up for Obama are putting our abortion or civil rights fights in jeopardy doesn't really have DU's or the Democratic Party's best interests at heart.

It's important that we argue about these things. It's also important that we don't let one fight turn us into buttheads. Obviously none of our current arguments is going to tear DU apart. Despite the heat and the hurt, this website will chug along well into the future. But it would be nice if those of us inclined to turn political arguments into personal attacks could take a step back before posting and remember that all of us here at DU are either Democrats or are pretending to be Democrats.

We're on the same team. Let's not break each other's legs during the scrimmage.

[Democrats_win]

1. All Democrats should unite to oppose false religion's Rick Warren.

It is more than the homophobia, although that is still a big deal in this case. It is about false religion having a place at the table rather than a place in back.

Don't forget false religion barely protested over bush's incredibly immoral wars. Damn them all for that! Rick Warren, stay home and pray for forgiveness. You have no right to lead our nation in prayer. In fact the Bible makes it clear that before he leads this prayer he needs to set things right first!

[Political Heretic]

13. No.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Sacrificing a group of Americans for political expediency... Obama needs to know he fucked up.

The bigoted religious nut Rick Warren should be uninvited.

[Bucky]

3. I think our protesting will certainly show this politician the lay of the land

He's the president, he has to be a centrist at least half of the time or he won't be very effective at his job. I'm a pro civil rights Democrat, so I have to speak out against this terrible choice. A pol in a democracy gets his bearings by the way his constituents act. Making noise now is necessary, even if it's unrealistic that Warren will be uninvited.

At this point I really don't expect him to drop Warren. I oppose the choice, but I'm content to just protest it now. That will get the message across and we'll still be owed one after he's in office and able to do more than just symbolic things.

Frankly, it would be a disaster to un-invite Warren at this stage in the game. To do so would weaken Obama, which is in no Democrat's interest. Much as I dislike Warren being the voice of prayer at this inauguration, I know Obama has to stick to his guns. We all have a role to play--mine is to dissent this terrible and hurtful choice. I won't shut up about the civil rights and political dignity of people who are targets of discrimination.

But we have to be realistic about what we can and cannot get. We can't get full equality for our gay fellow citizens just yet, but I do think we can get progress done if we play it right.

[Swamp Rat]

4. "Making noise now is necessary" - right on!

I agree with all that you say.

:thumbsup:

[Bucky]

6. Thanks. I actually meant to post this in GDP. GD isn't enough of a swamp for me

The lack of bitter, gratuitous accusations of disloyalty is ruining this joint.

[CTyankee]

7. Yep, as long as "noise" isn't all we do!

There's still a lot of political grunt work to be done, mostly at the state level. If you have it, give money to your state organizations fighting on behalf of marriage equality. If you can't give money, give your time and volunteer. Get involved and educated on the issue and the makeup of your state lege. Write LTTE. Speak out at local forums.

I've done all of these things over the years and they made me feel good.

I'm all for venting feelings and views on DU. In fact, I learn a great deal from them. But as the saying goes "When all is said and done, more is said than done."

Everybody get busy!

[riqster]

5. Making noise is part of our job, not just our right, as citizens

Nice post.

[TahitiNut]

8. Well, I'm not inclined to be faint-hearted ("realistic") but I agree with you.

:thumbsup:

It's VERY important that the outrage is expressed ... since "silence is consent."

[Truth Teller]

9. DUers supporting the Warren choice aren't progressives

Period.

[Mari333]

10. I personally believe anyone who defends the Warren choice

is supporting bigotry at its worst. and supportive of homophobia.

[BeFree]

31. Well

That seems a bit bigoted to me.

The Warren choice: made by Obama. So, Obama is a bigot? And supportive of homophobia? That's some stretch, but you may be right. And maybe that's why folks have cast him aside: this "I won't have anything to do with bigots"? Called him a phony, etc.

And for proof all one has to do is point at the Warren choice, eh?

Like I say, condemning him, or others, on such a minor selection seems rather bigoted to me.

[Spryboy]

11. Anyone SUPPORTING the Warren choice IS a homophobe, among other things

Sorry, it's a fact. Because you know damn well nobody would be supporting the Grand Dragon of the KKK giving the invocation. Or a raving anti-semite.

But it's "okay" to be a raving anti-gay bigot. Because, well, apparently anti-gay bigotry isn't REAL bigotry, according to some of you. It's just a "difference of opinion" or something.

Not.

If you're going to be a bigot, at least own up to it, and don't be a hypocrite about it.

[Political Heretic]

14. Whatever. I'm fine with the Warren choice, and your intimidation tactic isn't going to stop me

from saying so.

As a community LGBT activist, former ACLU organizer, and former campaign manager against our states anti-gay marriage ammendment, I feel like I've done more to earn the right to tell you to FUCK OFF in your knee-jerk labeling of anyone who disagrees with you as a "homophobe."

[Spryboy]

19. So you're fine with a virulently anti-gay bigot?

Seriously? You're FINE with it?

Would you be fine with a grand dragon from the KKK? Because there IS NO DIFFERENCE. Warren is every bit as bigoted against gays as the KKK is against blacks.

You have no basis to tell ME to fuck off. I'm not the one being a doormat, and thinking it's just peachy and FINE having a rabid anti-gay bigot being given the aura of respect on a world-wide stage of honor.

I am not jerking my knee here. I'm just not being a spinless door-mat "Aunt Tom" by saying everything is A-OK with this choice, and that this choice is "Fine".

How dare you.

[Political Heretic]

23. Yes, I'd be find with it.

You know why?

Because it doesn't fucking matter at all. Even if I accepted your comparison, which I don't, I still don't care. Because it's an irrelevant distraction. When Obama appoints Warren to a cabinet or policy making position, give me a call, until then - get bent.

Moronic outrage about complete non-issues such at this one is why we never get anything done.

[DonEBrook]

20. Wow. All those chops and a Log Cabin guy too.

Amazing.

[Political Heretic]

24. Well argued.

:eyes:

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

26. Only a dictator would render such a judgment. Are you a GOPer?

:shrug:

[BR_Parkway]

12. In more than a few ways, it was beneficial (probably not what most would

expect me to say)

1. It points out, even in our own DU community, the lack of understanding, and in some cases, empathy
2. It forced the press to ask Obama about something besides Blago
3. It reminds us not to be the lock-step followers the freepi are
4. It helps us focus on just what we want this Administration to do, beyond the campaign slogans.

[LeFleur1]

16. I Don't Understand It

When will Americans stand up to bigotry? When will they really believe in equal rights? Why must people who have been shoved to the bottom of the rights subject for eight years have to sit by while the move is made toward those who did the shoving? When does someone stand for them?
It looks as if Obama thinks words (I support equal rights) are more important than actually doing it.

I'm talking about Warren's ideal world where women don't make their own health choices or have privacy rights concerning them, and homosexuals are discriminated against. Warren thinks both are second class citizens at best, not worthy of any kind of citizenship at worst. To say that Obama is "reaching across the aisle" is ridiculous. He's giving a pass to those who discriminate and those who preach to others to do so, too.

[TheWraith]

15. I mostly agree, except some people clearly ARE being anti-Obama.

Read through any thread and you'll find the messages saying Obama's no different from a Republican, or saying that he's anti-gay, or a dozen other things that go way beyond "critique."

[KittyWampus]

17. You know, it is possible to NOT SUPPORT Warren and yet understand why he was chosen

[Bucky]

18. Right. That's why I called it "sticking by Obama"

I doubt you'd find even one DUer truly "happy" with this choice. It gets justified as smart politics, which is certainly a fair and respectable argument.

[DonEBrook]

21. Yeah and it's possible that gold-plated monkeys will fly out of my ass.

...

[Left coast liberal]

22. Hear, hear, I am sick to death of this.

Maybe we should be thinking about what an odd man out Warren will be up on that stage. He wouldn't dare spill his venom in that arena. Sometimes being shamed publically for what you say you believe is a way to open up some eyes.

And, if I was a Christian (which I am not) maybe I would even bring up redemption.

Warren is a scumbag, no argument but should we allow this issue to rip apart all the good coalition building that has happened of late?

Jesus H Christ!

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

25. We are adults. We can disagree and still love one another as human beings with,...

,...differences of opinion.

Who among us KNOWS that hatefulness is destructive? Who among us is being hateful?

Let's stick with decency KNOWING it works out better than being as hateful as the hateful.
:hug:

[PVnRT]

27. I feel the same, alhtough there are certainly some bigoted statements being thrown around

I even understand the strategy behind it, it was just an extraordinarily stupid one. The inauguration is not the time for singing around the campfire.

What really, really is pissing me off around here is the ignorance and insensitivity of the more extreme Obama supporters, who think he can do no wrong, whose attitude is to tell everyone to shut the fuck up, that they are just whining, and so on. There's no excuse for that around here. That kind of dismissal is fueling the flame wars around here.

[Bucky]

28. It's easier to pay attention to the petulent temper tantrum posts

I still think that there's a lot more intelligent discourse going on, if you look past all the party poopers

[HEyHEY]

29. Sorry, dude. My team doesn't give bigots platforms.

[Bucky]

30. Apparently they do

Obama may have stiffed his supporters with this move, but I'm pretty sure he's not going to lose a lot of support over it. It's a shame, but it's a fact that we're not going to be able to reverse.