New etiological info on pet food contamination incident...

[kestrel91316]

Toxicologists have tentatively ruled out ochratoxin, a fungal toxin that was initially suspected, though mycotoxins can be extraordinarily difficult to detect. They also have ruled out common chemical toxins like antifreeze and the types of solvents and cleaning agents used in the plant.

Interest seems to be centering now on the mysterious crystals being found in some of the victims' urine samples, and in large quantities in kidney tissue of some deceased victims (postmortem findings). We do not know what these crystals are, and different types of crystals appear to be found in different patients (????). Some appear to be "sulfa" crystals. Some appear to be urate crystals. Still more appear to be oxalate crystals.

I am baffled. But then, I'm not a pathologist.

[WindRavenX]

1. Weird.

I'm really itching to figure this out...

[Buzz Clik]

2. there's help....

[kestrel91316]

15. Great stuff, BTW. I'm so glad I don't have to waste my time on

flea control disasters anymore...........

[Retrograde]

32. worth the price!

I used to have a long-haired outdoor/indoor cat who did not like to be combed or powdered. One dose of advantage took care of his flea problems. (It doesn't help that I live a block from the old Spanish land grant called Rancho Las Pulgas - Ranch of the Fleas)

[ChairmanAgnostic]

3. kestrel - U B My Hero ! ! ! ! many tanks.

and other versions of the sediment.

[A Brand New World]

4. I wish they would find out soon. My mom's boxer died suddenly

on January 3rd of kidney failure. The boxer was only 6 and had no history of kidney problems. She died within 2 days of becoming ill. Very sad situation.

[spooky3]

24. I am sorry to hear about this. Do you think you should

report it as possibly being related to this food problem, so it could be investigated.

Hugs to you and your mom.

[A Brand New World]

78. My Mom is not connected to the internet so I'm going to report

it for her. I've talked to her about calling the vet and reminding him about Molly, in case he doesn't think of her since it was a couple months ago and before this food incident. After reading all the information I can on this, I'm convinced this was the cause of Molly's death. Mom always fed her a wide variety of different foods so that Molly wouldn't get bored with just one thing. I read her some of the brands and she said she had used those before. Obviously, she no longer has any of the cans to verify any of this. Molly was also cremated but I would imagine her medical records still exist. It cost them around $1000 to keep her alive for those 2 days. Knowing the cause will not bring Molly back but I still would like to know if this is the cause just for my Mom's peace of mind. This has caused them a lot of pain.

[IndyOp]

27. Please ask your mom to report her dog's death here:

http://petconnection.com/

Hundreds of deaths have been reported already...

:cry:

[Booster]

62. Thanks for this link. I had to put my dog to sleep yesterday and

have fed him some of the food listed. He was 16 and has had seizures for the past 2 yrs so I'm telling myself it wasn't what I fed him. My other dog ate the same food and she's fine, but she's getting food I'm preparing now - no more canned food until they figure out what the Hell is going on. I reported Baxter's death on the website as you suggested.

[WiseButAngrySara]

64. So sorry to hear about Baxter, and it's probably not the

food, but I know what you're going through. My sweet 16 1/2 year old died in September, and I'm 'worrying' that it might have been what she was fed, although my rational mind knows that this was not the case.

[Booster]

67. Sounds like you and I have a lot in common. It's a nagging

feeling inside when you think you might have caused the death of a pet just by feeding them something that you thought was safe. If my dog had been young and healthy I probably would have gotten a lawyer and gone after these people because I've read that they knew a month before they announced that the food was tainted, but since he was sick anyway and my other dog is ok, I'm just going to report his death and let it go. I'm so sorry about your little girl also - sure hits you in the heart when you lose them.

[Marnieworld]

69. I'm so sorry that you lost your friend

16 years of unconditional love is hard to say goodbye to. Do you know about the online pet loss groups? They can provide needed comfort for you.

http://www.petloss.com/

:hug: :hug: :hug:

RIP Baxter. Good boy!

[Booster]

71. Thanks for that link. I bookmarked it so I can go back and look

some more. Yes, Baxter was a good boy.

[AZBlue]

40. I'm so sorry.

My condolences to you and your mom!!!

[BlooInBloo]

5. Etymological pet food info? Sweet!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=414573&mesg_id=417107

:rofl:

[Buzz Clik]

21. hmmm.... something of a Norm Crosby moment.

[partylessinOhio]

6. We have outsourced our pet food production to CANADA.

Menu Foods Income Fund
8 Falconer Drive
Streetsville, ON
Canada L5N 1B1

Recall Information
1-866-895-2708

Press Release
Enhanced Website and Call Center

March 19, 2007
Menu Foods Recall

March 16, 2007
Product Information

Recalled Cat Product Information
March 16, 2007

Recalled Dog Product Information
March 16, 2007

http://www.menufoods.com/recall/

Recalled Cat Product Information
Recall Information 1-866-895-2708

Names of brands:

Americas Choice, Preferred Pets
Authority
Best Choice
Companion
Compliments
Demoulas Market Basket
Eukanuba
Fine Feline Cat
Food Lion
Foodtown
Giant Companion
Hannaford
Hill Country Fare
Hy-Vee
Iams
Laura Lynn
Li'l Red
Loving Meals
Meijer's Main Choice
Nutriplan
Nutro Max Gourmet Classics
Nutro Natural Choice
Paws
Pet Pride
Presidents Choice
Price Chopper
Priority US
Save-A-Lot Special Blend
Schnucks
Science Diet Feline Savory Cuts Cans
Sophistacat
Special Kitty Canada
Special Kitty US
Springfield Prize
Sprout
Stop & Shop Companion
Tops Companion
Wegmans
Weis Total Pet
Western Family US
White Rose
Winn Dixie

http://www.menufoods.com/recall/product_cat.html

[kestrel91316]

11. The factory in question is in KS. And frankly, I don't see a problem

with Canadians running the company. They couldn't do any worse than American corporate fatcats.

[Canuckistanian]

22. No, there were some problems related to the Canadian plant

In a seemingly unrelated case, there was an abnormally high dose of Vitamin D in some samples they took.

Enough to cause pet death.

[kestrel91316]

29. Oh, yeah, the hypervitaminosis D in the Diamond dog food.......

I never paid much attention at the time - I only do cats.......

They don't think that's what this is, for some reason. They immediately thought of it with this latest problem, though.

[kestrel91316]

75. Oops - Diamond was the aflatoxin incident. I don't know WHO

was involved in the Hypervitaminosis D incident.

Getting my bad pet food crises mixed up.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

7. can we all PLEASE K&R a true expert's post?

thank you.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

8. Thanks for keeping us informed! n/t

[monarch]

9. Thanks for keeping us informed.

You have been doing yeoman service on the pet food issue and this pet owner really appreciates the way you have been sharing your expertise. Do you post on any other blogs? I know that DU has lots of pet owners but it could be helpful to so many people if you post on other sites too.

[kestrel91316]

13. You can read my journal, there's some vet stuff in there i think.

and i just started a blog.........sparrowhawkscene.blogspot.com, I think, lol. Only a couple of posts there so far, and none on this.

Thanks, everybody. for the kind words.

I look at this as part of my job - a public service.

[monarch]

44. Great ! Bookmarked your site. n/t

[kestrel91316]

10. Received from LA CO health dept this afternoon:

The attached press release was sent out by the Department of Public Health this
afternoon. The number of reports continues to climb. We now are investigating
25 cases of dogs or cats developing renal failure recently, with 12 being
confirmed to have eaten pet food lots that were in the recall. Four dogs and 2
cats were reported to have died or had to be euthanized due to the severity of
their illness.

Please continue to report suspected local cases to Los Angeles County Veterinary
Public Health by faxing completed Animal Disease/Death Report forms to fax#
562-401-7088 or calling our office at 562-401-7088. Veterinarians, please let
us know if it is ok to contact the animal owners to gather more information and
whether we can provide your information and/or the owners information to the
FDA.

Additional updates will be sent out as our investigation progresses. Thank you
for assistance in this situation.

Karen

Karen Ehnert, DVM, MPVM
Senior Veterinarian
County of Los Angeles
Veterinary Public Health and Rabies Control


Email attachment:
For Immediate Release:
March 21, 2007

Los Angeles County Department of Public Health reports at least 9 cases of cats and dogs with kidney failure after eating recalled product
Pet owners should check to see if they use any of the Menu Food labels
LOS ANGELES – In response to a local health alert sent by Veterinary Public Health to area veterinarians, public health officials have confirmed at least 9 cases of kidney failure among both dogs and cats. Officials also expect the number of animals affected to increase.

In light of this fact and the voluntary recall of “cuts and gravy” style dog and cat food, by the pet foods manufacturer, Menu Foods, health officials are advising pet owners to discontinue use of any food product manufactured by Menu Foods and to contact their veterinarian immediately if their pet becomes sick after eating an affected product.
“Our Environmental Health Department conducted a telephone survey of 219 area pet stores and most of the affected products have been removed from store shelves in all but two stores. However, we are still concerned that the products are on the shelves in the larger retail and grocer chains in which pet food may only be a small portion of their inventory,” said Jonathan E. Fielding, MD, MPH, director of public health and health officer.

Pet owners can visit www.menufoods.com/recall or call 1-866-985-2708 for a complete list of dog and cat food affected. No dry food is at risk. Animals that may become sick from eating an affected Menu Foods product may experience symptoms of kidney failure. These symptoms include poor appetite, tiredness and increased water consumption, and urination. Symptoms progressed to anorexia, vomiting, and decreased or absent urination. If a pet is experiencing any of these symptoms, their pet owner should immediately take them to their veterinarian.
“Five of the nine animals reported to LA County have died or had to be euthanized. We will continue to investigate other cases that are reported to us to determine whether an affected Menu Foods product caused an animal’s sickness or death,” said Fielding.

A local health alert was sent out to area veterinarians to raise awareness of the situation and to encourage reporting of sick or dead animals to the health department. Veterinary Public Health will continue to track local cases and investigate causes of sickness or death. Pet owners can also report a suspected case to Veterinary Public Health directly by either filling a disease report online http://lapublichealth.org/vet/disintro.htm or by calling [phone].

The Department of Public Health is committed to protecting and improving the health of the nearly 10 million residents of Los Angeles County. Through a variety of programs, community partnerships and services, DPH overseas environmental health, disease control, and community and family health. Public Health comprises more than 4,000 employees and an annual budget exceeding $700 million.
# # #

[Hekate]

12. So far so good w my small dog & big cat.Friskies isn't on the list and the Priority will be returned

...to Von's when I get around to it. The lot numbers on the cans of Priority don't seem to be in the recalled batch, but this feels too chancy. Othello the cat is 16 and not in the best of health as it is, and Betsy the dog has had her own issues over time. Something like this could finish them off pronto and leave us heartbroken.

In the meantime, Betsy is getting small amounts of Friskies on top of her ONE kibbles which I hope is okay. She feels cheated if there isn't a little something to top off the dry stuff.

It figures that the manufacturing plant has never been inspected by the feds because (drumroll) the pet food industry is self-regulated. What a crock.

Thanks for the etiology update. You are being very helpful.

Hekate

[kestrel91316]

14. Post from a veterinary pathologist at Georgia:

A cat was presented to the University of Georgia Veterinary Teaching Hospital this morning with suspicion of food-related toxicosis. The urinalysis revealed crystals with the appearance of broken dinner plates with coarse striations. These crystals were not readily recognized by the newer medical technologists, residents, and faculty.

The appearance of the crystals was suggestive of sulfa crystals to me (images). The presence of sulfa crystals subsequently was verified by the lignin test. A positive test result produces a bright orange color (image). The patient's sample is on the left and the positive control is on the right.

The lignin test is simple and inexpensive. It is performed with a piece of used newsprint, urine sediment, 25% HCl solution, and a positive control (sulfa capsule suspension in water). The test is performed as follows. Apply one drop of urine sediment to the newsprint. In a different area, apply one drop of the sulfa suspension(positive control). Then apply a drop of HCl to the urine sediment and a second drop to the newsprint. A third drop of HCl applied to another area of the newsprint will serve as a negative control. Test results are as follows: positive control = bright orange spot, negative control = no reaction, patient sample turns orange if sulfa crystals are present.

Dr. L----- (omitted so he doesn't get swamped by pet owner phone calls)
Department of Pathology
University of Georgia


****I'm not even going to TRY to post pics on here, lol. I'm photo-incompetent on the internets.

[NYC]

19. Kestrel, if you can lead me to the photographs,

I will post them for you.

[kestrel91316]

23. They're on the vets-only site..........

[Jonathan50]

56. Usually this works...

Right click on the image you wish to display here.

Then select "copy image location".

Then go to the post you are getting ready here and right click again.

Select "paste".

If you do a "preview" you can see if your image showed up before you post.

[NYC]

60. I didn't find pictures.

I found only On Eating Locally and The Owl Who Could See Again.

Can you give me a more specific link?

[kestrel91316]

68. LOL, that's my blog!

The pics of crystals are boring. They are on a vet website.

[in_cog_ni_to]

16. K & R!

:kick:

[brer cat]

17. kestrel, you are a hero to spend so much time here helping us!

I have a new puppy, very vulnerable. She has been on Purina Beneful, which her vet approves, and is not involved in this recall. I considered making our own dog food, but my sister, an RN, pointed out that we would be starting at square one, when the major producers have had decades of research into puppy and dog nutrition.

What to do? We couldn't guarantee that all of our ingredients were pure either.

:shrug:

[kestrel91316]

18. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. The Beneful is fine as it stands.

[brer cat]

25. Thank you!

[Justice]

20. Purina Beneful here too.

[spooky3]

26. Thank you for keeping us posted.

[Deb]

28. Oh darn,

It so reminds me of human mushroom poisoning. Good thoughts going out to the labs and Vets working on this.

[Triana]

30. My cat had crystals in her urine/bladder...

...she survived (thus far) but surgery was required to clean it out. A lot of cats have this problem, apparently. It wouldn't surprise me if the issue was caused by some crap they put in the commercial foods.

I'm not sure this is a new problem....but it could certainly be a more serious and widespread one than the pet food mfrs want to admit.

[kestrel91316]

33. Well, I don't think this has anything to do with FUS/cystitis,

where high urine pH plus too much Mg in the food sets them up for crystalluria and possible obstruction/stones. The crystals there are STRUVITE (Mg ammonium phosphate). We all know what THOSE look like, and they are nothing like what we are seeing in the current incident.

But interest seems to be centering more on those pesky crystals in the kidneys..........it's very strange. When they immediately ruled out ethylene glycol toxicity, everybody kinda went "HUH?", because that was the first suspect.

[Triana]

59. Well *I* don't know what any of 'em look like...

...but you sound like you know more than I do so I take your word!

[thethinker]

31. I really appreciate this new information

I have a cat in the hospital that they are trying to save. This is her second day there. They are doing new tests tomorrow.

I hope they discover exactly what caused this soon. It will help save some animals.

[kestrel91316]

35. I'm so sorry to hear that. They ARE saving lots of animals, BTW.

So good luck!!!

[NNN0LHI]

34. My dog had crystals and was peeing blood in January

He also had most of the other symptoms I have seen listed. I had his kidney and liver functions checked again today and everything was back to normal. My vet said in January that the dogs urine PH was off which was creating the crystals in his kidneys and prescribed Potassium Citrate and to change his food to Hills Prescription. The dog responded well and quickly and now appears to be as good as ever.

I still need to bring him back in a month for a follow up x-ray to see if the clump of crystals about the size of a dime at the base of his penis have dissolved or if they may need to be removed surgically.

Hope that helps.

Don

[kestrel91316]

36. That's just the run-of-the-mill urinary tract infection with crystals/stones.

Not related to this acute renal failure syndrome........

[NNN0LHI]

38. He had no infection. I questioned the vet about antibiotics in January

He said they were not necessary as the dog showed no sign of infection.

Don

[kestrel91316]

41. Probably some urine pH issue due to an internal problem or

inherited predisposition??? Was he eating any of the suspect food? It's certainly interesting to speculate about a spectrum of disease rather than just the ARF problem.

But the only disease we've seen a spike in is the ARF with association with those foods.........

[NNN0LHI]

47. Him and my female (younger) Keeshond were both getting about...

...one heaping tablespoon twice a day of one of the canned foods on the recalled list. That was in with their dry food. They weigh roughly 35 pounds each so they weren't getting much of it for their size.

The female does not appear to be affected at all. My vet said today that it seemed that younger and older dogs were more likely to suffer adverse affects from the suspect food so that may be why it didn't affect the female?

I am not positive that it is the food but I do know when he stopped eating it he was like a different dog within a couple of days. The crystals kept getting smaller and can no longer be seen in his urine.

What do you think his chances are that clump of crystals will dissolve and he will be able to avoid surgery? I would really like to not have to put him through that if at all possible at his age.

Thanks for any info.

Also don't want to sound like a tinfoiler but I wonder if any Genetically Modified wheat or something was used in this food?

Don

[kestrel91316]

52. Wow. That's certainly very very interesting..............

Most of the deaths are in cats and small dogs, with young animals maybe at increased risk. But I think one vet lost a Bernese Mtn Dog, and they are big. It was recovering from cancer surgery and was getting 11 packets a day of the stuff. Never had a chance. It seems to be a dose-related issue - mg/lb body wt of whatever the stuff is.

Do you know what your dog's urine pH was???

You're NOT a tinfoiler. One of the very first things I thought of when they said "wheat gluten" was GMO wheat. It's a Pandora's Box, and we have no idea what's inside. There is the remote but real possibility, AFAIAC, of a totally new disease here, due to an unforseen GMO problem.

[NNN0LHI]

54. I will find out his pH and the wacky liver function numbers tomorrow

If this thread has fallen I will PM the info to you. Thanks again.

Don

[NNN0LHI]

51. Almost forgot some of his liver and/or kidney functions were out of whack in January

Today when it was checked everything was in the normal range.

Don

[kestrel91316]

53. It's certainly curious...................some of the vets with suspect cases

have patients with liver issues that don't quite fit the mold, and they don't know if they have the syndrome or not.

[NNN0LHI]

57. Another symptom he had that I have not heard any other reports of was...

...that he was hurting all over. Back late last year when I would hook him up to take him for a walk in the morning the two of us are normally so clumsy (average couple of guys) that either he is stepping on my feet or I accidentally step on his. Usually that is no problem. But when he was really starting to feel bad if I accidentally stepped on his toe a bit he howled like I was killing him or something. That is not normal. He is not a complainer.

Same thing if I pulled his leash too hard to get him out of the road if a car was coming. He acted like it was painful on his neck for me to pull too hard on his leash. He appeared to be just full of pain.

I noticed this weeks or more before I seen he was passing blood in his urine.

Don't know if that helps or not but I thought I would pass it on to you.

Don

[kestrel91316]

37. Yeah, they've got that darned bone in their boner that stones can

get hung up on, lol. Major design flaw, IMHO.

[NNN0LHI]

39. I didn't know they had a bone in their penis

Major design flaw is an understatement. I'm sure glad I don't have one. My pants wouldn't fit right.

Don

[kestrel91316]

43. You think that's bad - cats have a urethra that gets smaller in

diameter the closer you get to the outside opening. REALLY DUMB OF YOU, GOD!!!!! If cats get any crystals in their urine, they pile up starting right inside the opening and can back up all the way to the bladder.

You ought to hear the language when I have to deal with passing a catheter in those kind - JEEZ. And the opening is practically microscopic. I betcha not one human physician in 5000 could pass a tomcat catheter in a plugged male cat even if their life depended on it.

I've had to deal with TWO lately. Fortunately they both passed. But my back was killing me and I had a migraine headache by the end of it each time.

[yardwork]

42. Thank you for posting this information!

I've been checking your threads every day. I have a sixteen year old cat and am relieved that so far Fancy Feast isn't on the list. Is it unusual for a poisoning to cause such quick renal failure in both cats and dogs? It seems unusual to me.

[kestrel91316]

45. Some toxins can act VERY quickly. And in this case, I am glad

it did. It allowed us to pin down the source (food) and the manufacturer. I cringe to think how much trouble we'd be in if it were a delayed reaction of any sort...........

[gravity]

46. You just confused me even more

What????????

[kestrel91316]

48. Think about it. If you feed your cat a brand new food and within

24 hours it becomes serously ill, you are IMMEDIATELY going to suspect the food, right? You'll probably still have the package. So you call the company to complain, and they log the call.

More of the same happens to more pets, and before very long at all, the company knows they have a problem and just has to get to the root cause.

Imagine if nobody were getting sick for days or weeks after the toxic insult. You've thrown away the package, maybe even forgotten you ever fed the damned stuff. How the hell is anybody gonna put two and two together? Some people feed their pets something new and different nearly every day.

This is one reason I tell my clients to keep Kitty's diet BORING. Feed the same thing every day, no switching back and forth and trying every new thing under the sun. Makes my job a whole heck of a lot easier when Kitty starts the inevitable puking........

[gravity]

50. I understand that part

but now there are wierd crystals which scientists can't identify what they are still.

[TygrBright]

58. Amen on "feed Kitty boring!"

I've had several cats and FUS and its various sequelae shortened the lives of a couple of them before I figured out "the formula" (with some help from current kittyboy):

Food: Crunchy, low in the stuff that causes urinary crystals, good quality. Find one kitty likes and stick to it.

Feeding: Regular times, small amounts in the dish, to total only as much as vet recommends based on kitty size/age/activity level, etc. Consistency. Kitty knows what to expect and when. (Which doesn't stop him from having anxiety attacks commencing any time within an hour prior to scheduled meal times, wailing histrionically about the dangers of starvation and imminent death, etc. But it does keep the performances on schedule.)

Treats: RARE, and only in teeny-tiny tidbits. For His Royal Highness, it's slivers of ham, he's a real hamwort. Occasional morsels of chicken or cheese. A grape now and then, or a tiny bit of cantaloupe.

Water: Lots. In one of those fountain things, rinsed daily and kept filled.

Box: Keep clean. Empty daily. Reasonably private.

Play with kitty, groom kitty, keep kitty's claws clipped. Have a few toys around for kitty to amuse him/herself with when you're busy or not around. Be sure there are nice soft kitty-friendly surfaces that get regular sun patches or are right near radiators or other sources of warmth.

Be cat furniture on demand.

This is the not-so-secret formula for long and healthy feline lifespan.

Cats hate surprises and are generally distrustful of change, in my experience. Boring is good, when it comes to the essentials of life: food, attention, warm places to sleep.

catmatically (well, I COULDN'T say "dog" matically, could I, now?)
Bright

[tblue37]

63. Your cats eat grapes?

I had one who who like stir fried vegetables and would beg for saltines whenever I ate soup. I didn't give them to her, but she would try to steal them from me. I also had one who liked chewed up apples. One Tonkinese I had years ago liked tomato juice. But I have never had a cat who liked grapes.

[TygrBright]

66. Grapes make topnotch "prey" because of the rolling action...

...and he will occasionally eat one. More often, he'll chase it around the room for awhile, then sort of gum it into a soggy blob, then whack it under the buffet or some other semi-inaccessible place, and forget about it.

It's the cantaloupe that amazes me. He'll even try to dig the shells out of the trash if I leave the trash cupboard door unlatched.

He's a weird one, alright. Not overly bright, and a little on the klutzy side, but stuffed full of 'personality.'

slavishly,
Bright

[kestrel91316]

70. Just want to make sure you all know that grapes AND raisins

are considered POISONOUS IN DOGS. Cats, unknown.

They never did figure out what in/on the grapes is the problem, either. It is entirely possible it's a fungal toxin.

[TygrBright]

72. Thanks for the heads-up, kes!

I know there are several substances dogs can't ingest but don't necessarily harm cats, including chocolate and raisins (did not know about grapes but that follows logically, although I would have guessed that it would be the high concentrates of sulfites in the raisins that would be the problem, not an issue with fresh grapes.) But I avoid feeding His Royal Highness anything that's even slightly iffy, so he'll have to go without grapes, I guess. Time to buy more bizzy balls!

appreciatively,
Bright

[troubleinwinter]

80. I did NOT know that! And...

turkey not good for dogs at all, and aspirin LETHAL to cats (but often given to dogs)?

[troubleinwinter]

79. Mine was entirely placid, never bared a claw, until I tried to carry

beets from garden to house. Beets. He would climb up me and shred me bloody to get to the raw beets. WTF?!? I dunno... I figured there was something in the beets that was important to him, so I'd give him a little bit of grated beets (after applying half a box of band-aids to myself). Of course, once they were grated and in the bowl, he couldn't have cared less about them.

[IChing]

49. Thanks is there a link? n/t sorry didn't look in thread too busy

[kestrel91316]

55. I'm getting the stuff I don't have links for from a veterinary-only

web site I use. Lots of us putting our heads together in rapid fashion.

But I can't link to it because it's closed to public use for obvous reasons.

Vets in Los Angeles County are getting email updates from public health and I am posting these email texts.

[troubleinwinter]

61. Thank you, thank you, kestrel, for keeping us advised and up to date!

[Nikki Stone1]

73. I'll second that. Thanks for the info

...

[WiseButAngrySara]

65. I bet it's going to be an insecticide or herbicide that

results in ATN/ARF. The different crystalline structures is intriguing. All of the crystals mentioned are found in acid urine, although it's not very specific might point to a clue.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

76. So why wouldn't it have shown up before?

In all of the tests on insecticides/herbicides on animals?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

74. I'm betting a mycotoxin. Possibly a new one.

We know it comes from wheat, so it very well could be a mycotoxin.

Such things crop up now and then. I don't know how often in wheat, but it's every few years with phytotoxins in shellfish.

[Solly Mack]

77. Dumb questions - but has the water supply to the plant been checked?

It is just one plant, yes? In Canada?

Menu or something like that

Not just the water supply but the dirt/ground around the plant?

What about oxalic acid? (in lethal amounts?)

and is there a pharmaceutical/chemical plant nearby the pet food plant?

[kestrel91316]

81. Only the Menu plant in KS is involved here in the US.

Canada may have problems with their Menu plant up there, I hear.