Discussions on DU regarding Warren - my take

[ravencalling]

I am in total agreement with the anger regarding Warren from not just one perspective but two. The first has to do with the inclusion of Warren because of his views, but the second and more important is the legitimization of religious dogma that purely from it's own beliefs seeks to remove basic human rights from a group of people, whether this is the gay community or women or people who's religious views do not agree with the dogma in question.

I've had enough of the rabid family values evangelists having any hand in the shaping of our country's policies. As an agnostic, it riles me that we would choose to include the greatest of all evils, or that we even are forced to choose at all.

There is no benefit in allowing a voice at the national table to those who would destroy this country's values, science and any chance at winning our seat at the world table of enlightenment, if there is such a thing.

Bottom line. The views are not legitimate. Period. If I am involved in a religion whose belief system states that another human being is less worthy of rights then I am, and I claim my belief system to include an all powerful, perfect, infinite God, immediately my views become logically, scientifically and religiously invalid.

ANY concept of an infinite GOD that then goes on to direct man in a less then perfect way is no longer perfect. It then is nothing more then the imperfect mental construct of man the animal that can be explained at a baser level if one reviews the societal behaviors of our cousin primates. Granted, it is on a smaller scale, but it is always about power seeking to keep power by ensuring others have less power.

To those who do believe in GOD and wish to validate their faith, this is not the way to do it. Doing so makes it s clan belief, for your own clan. And if the objective does not lead to enlightenment for all then it's objective has more in common with the objective of war in the name of keeping your own clan powerful. To that end, it does not have any right to call itself spiritual in any way and by believing in clan dogma, neither do those who accept it.

Any prayer to GOD that has as it's basis the wish of one group of people to have power and more rights then another group of people, is an insult to the very concept of GOD and should be looked upon as blasphemy in that it demeans the very concept.

[FreakinDJ]

1. enough of the rabid family values evangelists

having any hand in the shaping of our country's policies

No arguement here - a great many of them are more like a "Freak Show" for Jerry Springer

[glowing]

2. Are you a theological student? Or Philosophy?

My take, if God Created man in His image and breathed life into Adam and created Eve, then all creation is of God and in the image of perfection... along with all God's creations. It actually goes further and makes it our job to be good sterwards of the Earth He gave and to show infinite love to our brother's and sister's among us no matter what because they are perfectly created the way He intended.

[ravencalling]

3. No - but..

I really enjoyed my philosophy and ethics courses in college! These arguments are classical.

From a logic standpoint you are correct. It is one of the reasons I consider myself to be agnostic. Classical arguments regarding the existence of God include some very hard thinking. The hard thinking stops though when you try to apply the same to biblical stories and their interpretation. Here you enter the realm of so called faith. But few realize that what they are believing ultimately invalidates their core belief.

[Bandit]

8. But you left out Adam's first wife Lillith, who created her?

And why? :shrug:

[Grey]

4. Perfectly said, Thanks.

I wish others had your grasp of logic. I'm printing this off for some 'friends'.

[Tejas]

5. Agreed. I never understood his decree that

whatever you "are" is what you should stay as, because that's the way you are "wired". Wonder how his ideas apply to prositutes and murderers?

Sorry, just don't feel that he's as special as he thinks he is.

[Hepburn]

6. Obama should have picked you instead of Warren.

Great OP...my pleasure to K&R!

Thank you...:hi:

[ravencalling]

7. Thank you!

:)