Is anyone else sick of "24" being used to justify torture?

[Radical Activist]

First, the show came up during the Presidential debates to suggest that there's some kind of fictional scenario where using torture will save the world. Clearly 24 has an impact on how people think about the torture issue.

Now I just saw a commercial for the show where the torturing hero Jack Bauer is telling some kind of Congressional looking committee that he won't apologize for what he did.

Is this show written by Karl Rove? They're making Rumsfeld's defense for him if Congress ever investigates or tries Bush administration officials for their crimes.

I'm not a fan of the show. Does it have some kind of twist that shows torture is wrong? Or is this really pro-torture propaganda inserted into a popular TV show? If so, someone needs to call out the show's producers for their pro-torture bullshit.

[NYC_SKP]

1. Well, yeah, that or anything.

But the scary part is that, as a popular TV show, it not only is being used to justify torture in the political arena but it is indoctrination viewers into accepting the unacceptable.

Which is even more unacceptable than using it politically.

[Radical Activist]

2. Well yes,

that's how it's being used politically.

[NYC_SKP]

3. I'd assumed that it had come up in news shows, articles, etc.

in addition to the television program.

[Dragonfli]

4. Not rove, Rush - I believe he has/had something to do on the production end.

Take it as a rumor because I only remember it because when I heard it I was disappointed in Keefer Sutherland for being involved in a show that had Rush as a producer.

No link to supply, just an old memory from when the show began.

[RamboLiberal]

10. Rush was good friends with 24 producer Joel Surnow

Rush as far as I know has no financial involvement in the show. BTW, Surnow has left the series. Surnow is a conservative Ahole IMHO.

That being said 24 has some good qualities. It showed us a strong black president in David Palmer. It has also shown us the excesses of the government including a president who conspired and lied to start a war, and a try at a coup against Palmer when he was cautious in blaming a Middle East country for a terrorist attack on the U.S.

This year 24 has a woman president.

24 may be over the hill. Last season sucked big-time but I'll be checking out this season.

I hate that the idiot RW'ers use Bauer's use of torture as a justification. It is a friggin' TV show. And they have shown on the show Bauer pays a psychological toll. Also he's not exactly a favorite of those in power in this fictional U.S. government. They've sold him out to the Chinese, tried to kill him and sold him out.

[Radical Activist]

21. So they're showing us that

torture is something a good liberal President can do too, and not just an evil Republican. That's what makes it effective.

[Dragonfli]

25. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

my memory of his involvement must have been of his connection with that producer, or perhaps a rumor based on that association.

I never caught much of the show but I am glad to hear that there were good qualities as well. I liked the plot you described about the politics of lying us into war, LOL - I wonder where they could have gotten the idea for that one.

I also hate the use of it for justification of torture!
I have heard it referenced to way too often by regular neighbors and co-workers regarding the virtue of torture to protect us.

I have so often had to explain that all the experts agree that, outside of a story plot, it is very ineffective as well as morally reprehensible.

[lpbk2713]

5. When OxyRush was arrested on his return flight from the Dominican Republic ...

with all that viagra in his possession ... the producers of '24' were in his plane with him.

That ought to put things in context.

[Radical Activist]

Yes, it does. n/t

[babylonsister]

6. No. This show has been on for a lot of years.

I watched it for a couple of years, but stopped watching it when the correlations were made, because they were dumb. The program also got boring.

Same as Survivor. Yes, I admit, I watched it, but the last few seasons, not so much. Boring.

[madeline_con]

7. Two reasons I no longer like Kiefer Sutherland ...

That show, and he actually says "NU-CU-LAR". :puke:

I love his Dad, Donald Sutherland in "Dirty sexy Money. It's a great soap and it's good to see him again.

[anigbrowl]

8. No. Pretty much every thriller ever has included a coercion scene

24 is a stupid show, but since it's a series they have to keep the story rolling soem way and this is the cheapest most reliable way to do it. It's like asking whether Columbo or (any detective show) is meant to condition us to find murder stylish and entertaining.

[Radical Activist]

9. No. This is a show with an agenda.

The more I read about the producer being a right wing nut job, the more clear it becomes that this is intentionally meant to be propaganda and not just entertainment.

[RamboLiberal]

12. And I bet you never even friggin' watched the show!

Yeah Surnow is a RW ahole. But there are also Democrats who are producers who write for it.

The early seasons of 24 were really good. And the villains in it have often been at the highest levels of the U.S. government including a U.S. president who conspired to get his country in to a war. Another plot was a coup against black president David Palmer who was hesitant to rush to war agsinst a Middle Eastern country without ironclad proof.

[Radical Activist]

15. Good propganda

isn't easily identified as propaganda. Torture is what got brought up in the Presidential debates, not the other plot points in the show.
I got tired of 24 in the first season when nearly every commercial break ended with Bauer's teen daughter almost getting raped. That gimmick got old fast.

I just googled this good article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/3532334/Kiefer-Sutherland-character-Jack-Bauer-in-24-accused-of-glamorising-torture.html

[RamboLiberal]

16. So let the rest of us watch it if we want

You can't judge what you haven't even seen.

You might better like Steven Soderbergh's "Che".

[Radical Activist]

18. So you're happy with pro-torture propaganda

being broadcast to millions as entertainment and Fox never getting called out for it? This isn't about mindless entertainment. This is a show that is apparently prepping the public for Rumsfeld and co. to be cleared of their war crimes.

[RamboLiberal]

20. Gee like there hasn't been articles about 24's torture

I'm done with you tonight. Time to change the channel! Write your letters to Fox and TV critics if you want the show off the air. 24 doesn't have that many seasons left in it any way.

[Radical Activist]

22. This obviously makes you uncomfortable because you like the show.

It may be entertaining but I think their agenda is disgusting.

[anigbrowl]

28. You say it's propaganda, but I'm not really convinced

Any more than I think the X-files is propaganda meant to prepare us for the announcement of extraterrestrial vistors, or every cop show is propaganda designed to excuse police brutality, or every show like ER and Trauma is designed to prepare people for mass casualties following a military coup. Oh, and I'm not a 24 fan BTW, I've seen maybe 2 or 3 episodes.

[anigbrowl]

27. Yeah, but the 'ticking bomb' question about torture was around long before 24

Is Dirty Harry a good cop or a bad cop, because he uses force to get information out of suspects? I could come up with a loooong list of '3rd degree' interrogation scenes going back decades. I've even written a couple myself. Violence as a means of coercion is an old, old standby - because to the casual person (as opposed to the hardened terrorist who may be prepared to endure it) it is scary and many would give in to it.

After all, mugging wouldn't be widespread if it wasn't for the fact that most people would rather hand over the money. So, it's not hard to find people who buy the argument that it should be used. And torture (plus the arguments for and against it) was a topical issue anyway without 24's help.

[Radical Activist]

11. Janeane Garofalo is a hypocritical sell-out

I've always been a big fan but after reading this interview I just lost all respect for her. She basically admits she knows that this is a show done by a right wing nutjob to justify torture but she's doing it anyway for the money. Unbelievable.


http://www.inkedmag.com/articles/detail/126/2/

Is it true that you were hesitant about taking the role on 24 because some of the show's creators were so right wing? Yes. My agent called and said we'd gotten a call from 24. I'm always flattered when somebody offers me a job, but I initially passed because some of the show's creators' politics are a little right wing for me. But then I realized, A. I need a job, B. I'm not myself on the show.

Creator Joel Surnow has jokingly called himself "a right-wing nut job." Oh, it's not a joke. He is a right-wing nut job. While being a very funny guy, he's also a right-wing nut job. That's part of the reason I didn't want to do it. He's not on the show anymore, but he's the one who sort of talked me into it. He charmed me. But I can't honestly say that my conscience is clear about the torture on the show.

[RamboLiberal]

13. Oh bullcrap - Surnow is off the show

It an f'in fictional TV show you never even watched. Who the hell are you to call someone a hypocrite? This is from Feb.

Joel Surnow, the co-creator and executive producer of 24, is leaving the FOX series effective immediately. No immediate reasons were given for the departure. Surnow was a key creative cog for 24 during its first six seasons and was intimately involved with the eight un-aired pre-strike episodes of season 7. His contract with FOX and 24 was supposed to run through April, but Surnow asked to be let off the hook early and FOX obliged. He will have nothing more to do with 24's seventh season.

http://www.buddytv.com/articles/24/24-creator-and-executive-produ-16602.aspx

[Radical Activist]

17. The TV commercial I just saw has Bauer saying he won't apologize for torturing people.

You think the show suddenly dropped its agenda? It obviously goes far beyond one person.

And just because I'm not a regular viewer doesn't mean I've never watched the show.

[RamboLiberal]

19. At least the congress in this fictional 24 universe is investigating

torture in that fictional U.S. government. Maybe our current congress ought to get a clue from that! In the 24 universe Bauer was running from the U.S. government because they had him under subpoena. And CTU has been disbanded.

[Blue_Tires]

14. i can't fault her too much -- you take your money where you can get it

especially in this economy...

besides, i'm guessing they will kill her off early.

[izquierdista]

23. Goebbels rehashed

The show is merely rehashed Nazi propaganda with better production values.

[Algorem]

24. Our secret dictator shadow government also used the show to prepare the wingnuts

to accept the idea of a black president because they were getting ready to install one for their own nefarious reasons and they didn't want the right(wrong) flipping out too much.I'm kidding I hope.

[pansypoo53219]

26. i never watched it.

the description told me it was a rite wing wet dream kinda show.

[Swamp Rat]

29. Idiots like Rep. Duncan Hunter need to watch "24" in order to get their talking points.

[Radical Activist]

30. yep

[KamaAina]

31. I'd rather have used "The West Wing" to justify impeachment

:P

[Giant Robot]

32. Not specifically no

I'm more weary of idiots making policy based on being a cowboy, super cop, ninja, of whatever the fuck else Bush dreams he is when he sets agendas.

[Cleita]

33. It's the reason I stopped watching it.

It could have been a good show. But isn't it Fox who produces it?

[Raksha]

34. I have NEVER watched "24," NOT ONCE!--and I don't intend to,

because my first awareness of the show's existence was when a RW kool-aid drinker on another forum used it to justify BushCo torture of detainees. I assumed that was the reason for its existence and wanted no part of it. "Ticking bomb" scenarios simply do not happen in real life.

[hfojvt]

35. I think many shows have been pushing rightwing propaganda

I have seen more than one show make a point of "showing how useful the Patriot Act is in catching terrorists". Another show I was watching, either NCIS or JAG, was in Iraq and they happened to accidentally find an underground laboratory which was loaded with poisonous chemicals. The point was to say "see, WMD could be very well hidden, almost impossible to find, but you know they are there."

It's not new though, the Dirty Harry movies were an attack on those silly Miranda rights, and Harry tortures a suspect in order to try to find a kidnapped girl. He shoots a criminal who has surrendered and then starts pressing on his wounded leg while the criminal screams "I have rights!" The perp also pays somebody to beat the crap out of him and then falsely accuses the cops of police brutality. "See, the police don't really beat people up, the criminals just fake it in order to make cops look bad."

[EOTE]

36. Yes I am.

And I'm a long time fan of the show. I think it's a great show otherwise, but the frequent use of torture is pretty sickening.