i need to be educated on many issues, including gay marriage...

[cynicalguy1111]

hello everyone,

i am a previous republican, turned new democrat with this election.

i have held many views that i have now found out to be inconsistent with the truth, and i'm just finding out.

i am not sure if this place allows former republicans or if i am breaking the rules by trying to figure out the new side of things, but if i am, please let me know and ban my name.

i have a few issues that i would like to discuss, or be educated on, from the democratic side as i voted for obama primarily because i could not take 8 more years of bush.

1. the bailout -
i always thought that we shouldn't be bailing out anybody. as in, if a company is too big to fail, it is too big to exist. i don't like corporate welfare, giving money to greedy executives. what is the democratic position on this?

2. gay marriage -
as a former conservative. my views on gay marriage have always been conflicted.
on the one hand, i could understand how angry i would feel that somebody is trying to take my rights away, and how hard i would fight to preserve those rights.
on the other hand, i think the main reason why the majority of americans are opposed to gay marriage is because they feel that homosexuals are trying to take away their religious thing. as if gay people are actively trying to be included into something they, by definition of the religion, can't be included in. also, most americans think well if u have civil unions and they are the same as marriages, why are gays complaining about the word? is the relgious word so important to them. then again, i think of how the church has used religion to denigrate blacks and justify slavery, so i think maybe i need to be educated further on it. i would like to know a few things:
- what's the difference in terms of rights between civil unions and marriage?
- do u agree with me as to the reason why a lot of people are against gay marriage being that they think gay people shouldn't take a relgious ceremony away from them?

3. minimum wage -
how do we raise the minimum wage while still staying competitive with foreign nations?

[Greyhound]

1. Welcome. You are certainly allowed, you may even find more than

a couple of people here who's Democratic Bona Fides will make you scratch your head in wonder.

First rule; there is no "Democratic side" as you will quickly learn. There's a bunch of us regularly labeled as "gun nuts" and a bunch of us that would, if they could, take them all away.

I think Thom Hartmann has summed up the difference between Republics and Democrats as well as anybody; Republics believe most or all people are inherently selfish and immoral, and must therefore be forced to do what is right, and Democrats believe that people are inherently decent and, given the opportunity, will do the right thing.

[Greyhound]

3. Oh, BTW I'm one of the wild-eyed extremists, the "loony left", if you will.

Curiously, all my European friends are unanimous in their assessment of me as pretty conservative.:shrug:

[DRoseDARs]

2. On gay marriage, here's my response for you:

"Stop it. Stop trying to redefine marriage. Just stop it right now."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4700155

"Anthropologists have debunked this "traditional marriage" nonsense for years..."
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4427900

Like I said in the second link, this discussion wouldn't be happening if more people understood the history and facts of marriage more.



Welcome to DU and I hope you find your footing. It's a big tent ... filled with cats that do NOT like being herded, as the analogy goes. ;)

[merwin]

4. My views

To start, previous Republicans who looking for answers are always allowed here, as long as you're not just here to "incite a riot", which you don't seem to be :)

I want to preface this by saying that this is all generalizations. Individuals here aren't told what to think, so this is just my view of what it is to be a Democrat.

1) I completely agree. Up until very recently in our country's history, antitrust and strict corporate regulations were reigned-in for the most part. Regan and Bush Jr did away with that, and Bill Clinton didn't help. Too big to fail, too big to exist. Democrats as a whole value the small business over the large corporation.

2) There are two definitions of marriage. Civil marriage (ie: the marriage certificate you have to sign), and religious marriage (ie: the ceremony). There are a LOT of Christians (myself included) who have no problem with gay people getting married. However, some people can't separate civil and religious marriage in their mind, and think that if they allow gay people to sign a GOVERNMENT document saying they are married, it will somehow make their religious marriage mean less. As for civil unions and marriage, each state defines that, but usually civil unions are given less rights than marriages.

3) There's no easy answer to that one, and I'm no economist. But my view is that just raising the minimum wage will do nothing to help us stay competitive. We also have to encourage companies to manufacture goods in the USA by providing incentives to do so and by taxing imports. Part of the incentives can be in the form of a national health care system, that takes the burden of providing health care to employees off of the companies, allowing them to stay more competitive. We could also encourage and finance alternative forms of energy that would allow the production and distribution of goods made in America to be produced and distributed cheaper. Where will we get the money for this? Just a portion of the amount of money we've spent in Iraq could fund it.

I would recommend reading Thom Hartmann's books, and/or listening to his radio show on Air America. I would especially recommend two of his books:
1) "Cracking the Code: How to Win Hearts, Change Minds, and Restore America's Original Vision"
2) "Screwed: The Undeclared War Against the Middle Class - And What We Can Do About It"

Long titles, but well worth the read.

[emanymton]

5. Welcome To DU, .... You Are ...

.

Bail-out - Reestablish anti-trust laws and regulations. Take over the failing corporations through stock warrants and options (ala Chrysler solution previously). Fire executives (no severance pay) and replace them with leaders from the automobile unions. Break-up monopolies and trusts.

Gay marriage - inalienable civil right protected by constitution.

Minimum wage - living wage and the corporations will survive!

.

[hfojvt]

6. first of all, there is no "truth" on a "should"

As in this: "i always thought that we shouldn't be bailing out anybody."

That is a value judgement, and thus, not fact based. I don't mean that it's false, but that it is neither true nor false. "New Orleans is to the south" is a statement which can be true, if you are in St. Louis, or false, if you are in Miami. However, "we should goto New Orleans this weekend" is a value judgement which implies certain ends.

One question is whether Republicans and Democrats have the same ends, or more generally, whether Conservatives and Liberals have the same ends. Presumably we both want a functioning economy with low inflation and low unemployment, and also a growing economy.

Except that there are some on the far left who would eschew materialism and also worry about global warming and other environmental problems like peak oil or deforestation or topsoil depletion, and put those goals ahead of economic growth.

So it's complicated, and there might be half a dozen different takes on the bailout all from different liberal perspectives.

2. Differences between civil unions and marriage - a. the name is different, thus creating a separate and unequal situation. Separate, it is held, is inherently unequal
b. the benefits of CU are not federal

Why people are against it? a. There's a lot of misinformation being spread as scare tactics to stop gay marriage b. some religions, fundamentalist protestant, mormon, and Catholic, etc. still teach/preach that homosexual acts are sinful c. There's also a lot of other homophobia in American society. But this whole question is debatable and not relevant to the issue of "Which side are you on?"

3. Having a minimum wage and staying competetive.
a. First less that 2% of the labor force is making minimum wage, so it is not the primary barrier to competetiveness.
b. Second if you invent something or otherwise use highly productive technology you can get high wages because of high skill or high output
c. third, the minimum wage in world terms depends on the exchange rate. A wage of $15 an hour is not the same in Euros, If a Euro is worth 50 cents, then it is 30 Euros an hour. If a Euro is worth $3 then it is 5 euros an hour. If we sell much less than we buy, the exchange rate is supposed to change to balance this out.

[Greyhound]

7. LOL! Some people might even lump global warming, peak oil, soil depletion, and

deforestation under the prejudicial term "far left".:rofl:

Complicated indeed.
:hi:

(notice how I used firearms for my example, he's a possibly reformed republican, so naturally he must be pro-gun. Oh wait a minute, so am I)