What do "fundamentalist" and "evangelical" mean to you?

[Recursion]

One fallout of the Warren flap is that I'm being exposed to how little people seem to know about "the other side".

I'm curious, what do the terms "fundamentalist" and "evangelical" mean to people here? Do people use them as synonyms?

[blogslut]

1. If I recall correctly

Fundamentalists believe in a strict interpretation of the Bible. Evangelicals are tasked with spreading the "good news".

The question is, how many evangelicals are also fundamentalists?

[Recursion]

2. To answer the question

7% of Americans identify themselves as fundamentalists, and essentially all of those are Evangelicals.

Pretty much all Christian churches are "evangelical" with a small "e"; "Evangelicalism" as a movement has a specific theological definition, as does "Fundamentalism".

[blogslut]

5. Well, it's been 30 years

...since I did the church thing. Methodist. They used to be small "e". I don't know what they're like now. I got out of the whole religion thing just about the time those scary Satan-Is-Everywhere revival pamphlets started showing up in local mailboxes.

[el_bryanto]

3. That's my interpretation as well

The Slactivist ( http://slacktivist.typepad.com/ ) is an evangelical liberal who writes about the crossroads between Evangelicalism / Fundamentalism and Dominionism (he writes an ongoing critique of the Left Behind novels as well).

I will note that Fundementalism, while claiming to believe a strict interpretation of the Bible, usually refers to a very specific interpretation; what we might call a right wing reading of the text. One in which a few scattered references to Homosexuality are crucial and countless reminders to love your neighbors and seek peace are really not all that important.

Bryant

[Recursion]

4. Fundamentalism is an extended subset of literalism

Literalism as a critical method for the reading scripture is much less widespread than the rhetoric would lead you to believe; that said, there are (few, but existant) non-literalist Fundamentalists, and a larger number of non-Fundamentalist literalists (possibly more non-Fundie literalists than Fundies, depending no how you count people).

Fundamentalism is a mostly-American Christian doctrine regarding dispensationalism, was never a particularly large part of American Christian thought, and has been losing members and influence steadily for 20 years. But it still seems to have captured a large part of the Left's imagination.

[el_bryanto]

6. Hmmmmm

Well Warren and other prominent preachers - how would you describe them?

Bryant

[Recursion]

8. Rick Warren is a conservative Evangelical

And for all of his flaws he's the hands-down, no-contest winner of who is going to lead the conservative Evangelical movement as the Falwells, Robertsons, and Dobsons of the world continue to retire and/or die. He has very specifically taken a stands against Dobson on climate change, poverty, and HIV/AIDS, and in doing so has attracted a large number of younger conservative Evangelicals who want those three topics to be the focus of the church.

It is a related fact that he is not a fundamentalist: he does not have the Dispensationalist/Covenant view of history and human action; this is a view that has literally almost zero traction among Christians under 40 or so: people who grew up with a fast-changing world, saw the cold war end, and don't have the cultural baggage of the 1960's.

[ProfessorGAC]

7. So Would You Say That. . .

. . .the majority of fundamentalist sects are literalist as well?

If so, how do they theological rationalize the need to interpret Revelations while claiming the Bible is literal? Something is either literal or interpretative, right?
GAC

[Recursion]

10. Fundamentalism pretty much requires literalism

But literalism does not make you a fundie. There are a (very very few) self-identified Fundamentalists who are not entirely literalists, but there's really not enough of them to make much of an argument that way.

Younger conservative Evangelicals don't remember a time when there wasn't a nation-state called "Israel" in the Levant, so the dispensationalist rhetoric just doesn't speak to them.

[Hepburn]

9. To me it means....

...people to be avoided at all costs and, as to their movement, issues to be opposed to vehemently.

If fundies and Evangels are for it...it usually is suspect and most likely discriminatory.

JMHO

[Recursion]

11. I can think of two famous Evangelicals that might change your mind

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Carter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Wallis

[Hepburn]

13. Ummmmmm.....

...not interested in their religious views at all.

Nice try...no cigar.

[Recursion]

16. If you say so

Are you just saying you don't wish to make windows into people's souls, or that the fact that all their good works came from a religious faith sullies those works in your eyes?

[Zuni]

14. Some evangelical Christians are wonderful people

growing up I had neighbors who were evangelical. They were great neighbors and just plain nice people.

[Zuni]

12. I have the answers (I have studied theology)

Evangelical is a segment of American Protestantism that is firmly behind the Protestant Reformation, and they strongly believe in the basics of Protestantism like salvation by grace through faith alone and that the Bible is the only authority and is interpreted literally in most cases. They reject the Catholic Church strongly, do not believe in ordained clergy etc etc.

Catholics and Orthodox Christians are different. Catholics believe in salvation by grace of God, which creates and implants faith which then inspires good deeds. Grace is also freely given from God in the 7 sacraments, like Baptism and Holy Communion and Confession. Catholics and Orthodox intrepret the Bible in a much more nuanced way and give equal weight to Holy Tradition, which is the body of knowledge and interpretation that has been passed down from the Apostles to the present.

Fundamentalism is an extreme branch of Evangelical Protestantism. They believe in extremely strict intrepretation of the Bible and in "biblical seperation", which means not associating with sinners, with Christians who don't believe exactly as they do. They are usually extremely anti-Catholic, believing that the Catholic Church is the whore of babylon and that the Pope is the antichrist.

[Recursion]

15. You had me until "no ordained clergy"

They're ordained, just not by a bishop. But that applies to all non-episcopal (small "e") churches (Presbyterian, Baptist, Congregationalist, etc.)

[Zuni]

19. not in Apostolic succession

They have ordinations but they don't have the Sacrament of Holy Orders, which can only be given by Bishops in Apostolic succession.

I also wasn't talking about Mainline Protestant like Episcopal or Lutheran or Presbyterian, which do have an ordained (small "o" clergy).

I was talking about Non-Denominational "Bible" Churches and such.

[Recursion]

20. Hmm... I guess I'm just a Presbyterian

We don't really believe the episcopal (small "e") churches actually have Apostolic succession, so I guess it never occurred to me to distinguish based on it

[Zuni]

31. I didn't mean any offense

what I meant that there are distinct differences between Catholics, Mainline Protestants and Evangelical Protestants and their general theology and practice.


One big difference is that Catholics and Orthodox take Apostolic succession very seriously, and it is part of why the Bishops and clergy have so much authority. Protestants, even High Church Protestants (Anglo Catholics and High Church Lutherans) don't have Apostolic Succession, and likewise don't have such a strong hierarchial structure.

That is why I made the distinction between Sacramentally Ordained (Big "O") and ordained in a more Protestant fashion (small "o").

[Bragi]

17. My answers

Fundamentalists believe everything in their big book of religious magic.

Evangelicals are religious people who want to convince others to believe everything in their big book of magic.

[alsame]

18. I have relatives who self-define as fundamentalist

evangelicals. They believe the Bible is the literal word of God, they believe in end times and the rapture, the anti-Christ, and creationism. They believe some people can speak in tongues when chosen by God to do so.

They use 'prayer cloths'...cloth signed by a prominent evangelical preacher that is placed on someone or something involved in what you are praying for (i.e., a sick person, a car you are trying to sell).

They believe in demonic possession and once told me that the devil could capture my soul through a book, TV or movie screen if I watched something 'dark' (like Harry Potter).

They believe they have a direct relationship with Jesus and God and therefore have no need for intermediaries (priests, the Pope, pastors, etc) and don't attend any church at all. They do, however, regularly watch the TV crew - Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, Joel Olstein - and accept them as legitimate spokesmen for God.

I'm not sure which part of their belief system is evangelical and which is fundie.

[tabbycat31]

21. my definitions

fundamentalist-- sees things in very "black and white" terms and no shades of gray. You're either right or you're wrong, no matter what the circumstances. (This definition does not only apply to Christians)

evangelical-- "born again" and believe in spreading the word. Their life turned around the day that they were "saved" and want to get as many others as possible "saved" (there's a teen movie with this title that pretty much sums it up) Look up "Jack Chick" tracts to see some of their tactics.

[Recursion]

22. Ah, Chick Tracts

I used to get those all the time walking to school.

fundamentalist-- sees things in very "black and white" terms and no shades of gray. You're either right or you're wrong, no matter what the circumstances. (This definition does not only apply to Christians)

Well, ok, if that's what you mean by it. But "Fundamentalist" has a very specific theological meaning that has little to do with that.

[pitohui]

25. why ask a question about what something "means to you" if you don't wanna honest answer?

the fundamentalists i've met meet this poster's description perfectly, they see things in black and white, no shades of grey, they are right and you are wrong, they are saved and you are damned, no matter what the circumstance

i don't think it much matters what some foo-foo academic theorist believes the word means, what it means to ME is the fundies i meet every day, who are smug racist haters who believe they are saved and can do as they please because it says in their book of mumble that you are saved by faith in jesus and not by doing good deeds, being a good person, etc. -- the self proclaimed fundies i meet are not good people, they are smug liars, cheats, and thieves, and they BRAG about being sinners who are saved by the blood of the lamb, they do not have to change, they are saved by "grace" not works

in other words your "very specific meaning" may be what fundamentalist means to YOU but when you ask what it means to ME -- well, like it or not, it DOES mean this kind of person who introduces themselves as a fundamentalist and behaves in this way -- i have to believe that the self proclaimed fundamentalist knows who and what he is more than you do

they are not nice people, they don't have to be

and no prattle about "specific theological meaning" need apply -- i mean, be serious, these folks are mostly sub-normal in intelligence, they can't read very well, they get their religion from teevee because they're stoopit, get it yet?

what the leaders think and believe may be different, i doubt many of them believe in god at all, they simply see sheep to be sheared and understand that it would be a shame not to shear them

[HamdenRice]

23. Fundamentalist, evangelical and charismatic are each separate

Fundamentalists believe in the literal truth of the Bible, the fundamental doctrines of Protestantism.

Evangelical means merely that one wants to convert others -- evangelize others -- although in modern media discourse, it seems to mean the same as fundamentalist.

Charismatic has more to do with the style of worship, which involves the direct experience of the "holy spirit," including such things as talking in tongues.

A denomination can be both evangelical and charismatic without being fundamentalist. For example, the Black Churches tend to be both evangelical (with education missions in Africa) and charismatic (think about the style of preaching of Martin Luther King and Jesse Jackson) while being not particularly fundamentalist and politically liberal.

[LanternWaste]

24. Two words we've done a great job in...

Two words we've done a great job in co opting, and then re-defining with a pejorative connotation-- much as the Right did with the word 'liberal' some years back...




Fundamentalist-- someone who deeply cares for, and believes in a particular concept, regardless of whether that concept is religious in nature or not.

Evangelical- someone who believes in the doctrines of atonement, incarnation and resurrection.

[Gwendolyn]

26. To me, evangelical is the anglicized word for evangelisch....

which means protestant in German. A sect of Christianity. For some reason, random word association also brings to mind the word angel, and rapture in the sense of being emotionally carried away by an idea.

Fundamentalism is associated with... black and white, spankings and executions for those who question or do not fall into line within a given ideology.

[Gwendolyn]

28. Ooops... sorry, meant to reply to original post.

[cliffordu]

27. Hypocrite and idiot, not in that order,

necessarily.

[mmonk]

29. American (and British) style religion that got its creation and spread

shortly after the Civil War predominately in the South and West, particularly rural areas. There are differences and similarities between the two.

[Still Sensible]

30. Well, it's really literalist lite...

that are today's fundamentalists. They selectively interpret the bible. If they were truly literal, they would be even worse, but the again, if they thought they could get away with it maybe they would be more literalist.

Admittedly, I have not studied the issue in depth, but it appears to me that virtually all fundies and many, if not most, evangelicals really pick parts of the old testament to rely on, while ignoring many things--particularly new testament--that are inconvenient to their oppressive point of view.

[Stinky The Clown]

32. religious wackadoodles

[kenny blankenship]

33. Fundamentalist: strict and literal interpretation of ancient unintelligible religious texts

Evangelical: Go forth and annoy folks with your new found religion.

[Swamp Rat]

34. Wermo Murishani

"Hohoho... Jee tinka uba torona old Jedai mind trick." :D

[OxQQme]

35. Are they not the ones who came here

on the Mayflower. Shoe'd out of their country because they were whacko?

[earth mom]

36. You don't want peoples opinions-you want to lecture them.

This thread belongs in the religion forum. :puke:

[Tommy_Carcetti]

37. There's actually nothing wrong with being a "fundie" per se.

Being a fundamentalist or evangelical, at least as it pertains to Christianity, simply means one takes the words of the bible literally. And to me, that's a legitimate religious belief. It's not my religious belief, as I personally believe in taking a lot of what is said in the bible, other than the gospels, literally.

If someone wants to believe the world is 6,000 years old, frankly it does not bother me. Do I believe in that? No. Do I think there is scientific evidence that affirmatively shows otherwise? Of course. But if they want to believe that, and that's how they interpret their beliefs, them believing that is not going to hurt me and I'm not going to be so callous as to criticize or ridicule them (as some like to do). The only problem is when they want to teach it as a scientific theory in public schools, because that crosses the constitutional line.

The line gets crossed not in the belief, but in the use of the belief. If they want to literally interpret the bible so that it advocates hate or bigotry, then I have a major, major problem with that. It was a problem with the "Curse of Ham" and it continues to be a problem as to advocating the exclusion and hatred towards gays. But that's not the religion itself; that's the unfortunate intrepretation of the religion by certain people, and that's what I have the problem with.

But being a "fundie" is not in and of itself the problem. It's how some people choose to express their faith that is the problem.