Today ~ Saddleback Church stripped website of "anti-gay" language...

[mzmolly]

This, within the last 24 hours per Hardball guest and (Gay Activist) Mike Rogers. He indicated "we have a victory today." He also complimented Warren on "realizing the error of his ways." ;)

Just thought I'd share. I agree with Mr. Rogers on the "victory." Progress never comes quickly enough, but does come, eventually.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. OK...so now they talk the talk...

Will they walk the walk?

:shrug:

[Donnachaidh]

2. So when are they going to welcome their first gay parishioners?

Taking words from a website is easy. Welcoming people into your church as REGULAR parishioners is a REAL victory, not yet attained.

[EFerrari]

3. Why would the good pastor approve such a thing if he was sure of his position?

:shrug:

[mzmolly]

14. No clue. Unless he didn't aprove of everything on the website?

I'm not defending Warren. I think his views are ignorant. But, I thought this again was a small step forward.

[EFerrari]

16. Is he inviting gay folk to his church or is he covering his tracks?

I guess we'll find out. :)

[mzmolly]

24. No clue. And I meant "apProve" above, sorry.

:hi:

[Bodhi BloodWave]

44. It seems he actually has invited some

From Tammy Lynn Michaels blog

anway. hath hell frozenth over? rick warren was humble and kind. honey and i are to go to his church sometime soon. and honey invited him to our house for an afternoon, to be with our family. (w.t.f.)

http://hollywoodfarmgirl.blogspot.com/2008/12/big-ricks-yamaka.html

[lapfog_1]

4. I'm sorry, how is this a victory?

Has Warren come out and apologized for his anti-gay remarks? Has the church actually OFFICIALLY changed it's policy on accepting gay members? Have they reversed their support for Prop 8? Are they filing court briefs to oppose the revocation of gay couples marriages?
Is Warren and his church now in favor of a woman's right to choose? How about the separation of church and state?

I could go on and on, but this is enough.

So they removed some language from the web site. Language that Rachael pointed out last week.

Sorry, that doesn't make them just Okey Dokey now.

[mzmolly]

8. I believe that the policy on accepting gay members

may in fact be in question?

Rachel will cover this again tonight. It looks like an interesting show.

[lapfog_1]

13. If they changed their policy on accepting gay members,

they should have issued a press release (however quietly) on the subject, not just deleted some language on a web page.

And if they have gay members now, what does that say about how the pastor characterizes gay relationships?

[mzmolly]

25. Totally agree.

Keep in mind however, Saddleback Church says Divorce is a "sin" as well. They seem like a new and exciting version of archaic thought to me?

[Cleita]

5. Any step in the right direction is welcome.

Now would be the time for gay activists to test them on their sincerity.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mzmolly]

10. Eeeew.

That gave me the creeps. :scared:

[baldguy]

33. It was meant to.

[mzmolly]

42. I know.

*gulp*

[EFerrari]

15. You bet!

[mmonk]

7. It won't be a victory until they strip it from their teaching

and souls and their politics.

[mzmolly]

11. I think this is perhaps a step in that direction.

:shrug: I hope so, anyhow.

[mmonk]

19. Let's hope it is that and not trying to cover up controversy.

Do people give up an absolute in their belief system that fast? I guess we will find out.

[katandmoon]

9. It'll be right back on Jan. 21.

[peacetalksforall]

12. You're right - right on.

[SammyWinstonJack]

17. Oh yeah, count on it!

x(

[David Zephyr]

18. You know it will for 'the lord giveth and the lord taketh away.'

Soon as he's had his moment basking like an idol, he'll have those anti-gay slurs right back up on his website.

The guy is a charlatan. A fraud. A con artist. And an asshole.

[liberalmuse]

20. Cool! Granted, it's not much, but it's a start.

However, I agree that it is a victory. If they were so sure of their beliefs, they would not succumb to public pressure.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

21. They'll be back on Jan. 21st

[mondo joe]

22. Disguising the bigotry is PR, not policy change.

Sorry!

[Orsino]

29. Having to hide it for long enough will result in policy change.

I really like that they've become a bit ashamed of their stance.

[mondo joe]

31. I don't see anything to indicate that. Bigots always get better at hiding bigotry. NT

[Orsino]

38. But the peer pressure that produced it...

...means a little bit of shame. Half of what we're fighting for is mindshare, and they just lost a tiny bit.

[mondo joe]

40. I'll be delighted for you to be right.

:hi:

[Critters2]

48. Not shame. He's just afraid Obama will drop him, having learned just how

official and codified the hate is. This is just good ol' fashioned ass-covering.

[Orsino]

50. That works for me.

Driving the hate underground is a good thing.

[Stinky The Clown]

23. A tiny step forward .... but a step none the less.

Now if we get him to come to terms with the errors of his "Some of my best friends are gay" mindset ............

[mzmolly]

27. Agreed.

:hi:

[Orsino]

26. Obama can probably take a bit of credit for this.

National scrutiny, like the kitchen light, makes roaches scatter for cover.

[mzmolly]

28. Great

analogy.

[antipode]

30. As a tenured and licensed cynic, I must say that would have impressed me a LOT more

if it had been done -before- the shitstorm.

[mzmolly]

37. Welcome!

:hi:

[AntiFascist]

32. That's a start, but I'll bet they still ban gay people n/t

[slackmaster]

34. George C. Wallace denounced his life-long racism

Maybe there is hope for Rick Warren.

[Luminous Animal]

35. Anyone who thinks that Saddleback will change

just because they took down offensive language is an idiot. Saddleback's preachers have been preaching bigotry for nearly 30 years.

[mzmolly]

36. True, but if they are forced to run from their own words

that is a small victory IMHO.

[Critters2]

49. As Southern Baptists, they're required to hold these positions.

I haven't heard about 'em leaving the SBC.

[Bluebear]

39. Stripped until 1/21/09.

[mzmolly]

46. I sure

hope not BB.

[Rabrrrrrr]

41. You're all wrong. If asked, Warren will say he's worried about parishioners suffering gay violence

or he'll word it in such a way so as to put all blame on gays for "potential" threats, physical abuse, car vandalism, or something that the "gays" will do to Saddleback.

But he'll say it in that snake-oil salesman way he has of saying it that will convince the majority of really fucking dumb people in this country that yes, indeed, there is a lot of potential threat from gay people against "good Christian folk who just want to say "Merry Christmas" and love Jesus and their families."

:puke:

[MineralMan]

43. When Warren goes on national television and says

that he has been wrong all this time, and that gays and lesbians should be able to marry freely, and that he'll be performing weddings at Saddleback Church...then maybe I'll listen to him.

Just taking language off a web site doesn't cut it.

[kevinbgoode]

45. Look - I don't buy it at all.

Warren has been all over the media being protrayed (and portraying himself) as this loving-the-gays moderate. That web site language obviously contradicted that image.

Being a money-hungry snake handler, Warren was far more likely to order having that language changed because he was mindful of increased traffic to his church's web site following so much media exposure. And that nasty gay membership ban would likely not rest well with REAL moderates dropping by for a gander. They might actually think he was a lying hypocrite - and no con-artist con-servative "minister" of profitmongering is gonna let any truth set someone free as long as they can think of a way to cloud it as much as possible.

So I don't think this is a victory at all. I think Warren was more worried about other people seeing his true beliefs on that web site than he gave a crap about being nice to the gays - after all, he just publicly campaigned to dissolve 18,000 of their families in California.

[QC]

47. Public relations. n/t

[Marrah_G]

51. Anyone who falls for this crap is niave